Yellow Jackets

FRIENDLY, general interest, non LDM discussions with other forum members.
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zentull
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Post by zentull »

Good to hear some good news for a change.

Still got the boys to keep me company. One is pretty much a doorstop these days, but the Zendoggie still has got the fire in his eyes.
eldorado
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The Mail

Post by eldorado »

Mr. Ribaudo,

Perhaps you have seen e-mails we have not seen. The only e-mail that is being referenced is the one offering Martin`s diary, the Ely letters, the location of 17 Peralta Mines and not to mention a wealth of material and history of those mountains. All at no charge.

We only wanted to be treated with respect and decency.

We did not even receive a reply.

Maybe that is how you folks do business in Arizona and if so we respectfully suggest you stay on your side of the matrix. You can bet your last dollar you will never find this side.

It doesn`t matter anyway.


E.
Joe Ribaudo
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No Matter?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Well, Sir....

I have seen both sides of the exchange between "we", and must tell you that the response was more than respectful. It may not matter to you, but when you start badmouthing folks that are as well respected as those you have contacted here, you can expect a little peavishness.

The records of what transpired can be produced. If you can produce one (1) document that shows some kind of disrespect, by all means post it here and I will apologize........which is the respectful thing to do.

I look forward to your backing up what you have said.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
eldorado
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Communications

Post by eldorado »

Sigh, This is hopeless.

Mr. Ribaudo,

Different Communications, Different times.

The e-mail referenced was never responded to. Believe you know the one.

If a response was sent please send it to my mailbox here.


E.
Joe Ribaudo
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Hopeless?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

E.,

Don't know if anything is hopeless, but let me put it to you this way. If I had something that I thought would be desired by a Historical Society, Museum or University, I would make sure they received any correspondence that I sent. Follow up with a phone call, e-mail or letter.....something.

The problem here, is that you started running down the entire State of Arizona, because of a perceived slight. Arizona doesn't need to take a backseat to anyone when it comes to preserving it's history and artifacts.

If you had something authentic, a dozen interested parties would have fought for it before the sun set.

Joe Ribaudo
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Weaving Webs....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Late,

I often wonder why people manage to weave themselves into these fantastic stories. I can only assume it involves escaping from a life of boredom.

What seems to happen, more often than not, is that they loose track of the facts right along with the truth.......assuming there was ever any truth to begin with.

You started out, back in Oct. 2005, asking me if I knew who would be interested in, and an appropriate recipient of your Sims artifacts. Honoring your request, I put you in touch with someone from the Superstition Mountain Museum and Historical Society.

You were contacted by George E. Johnston, President of the Historical Society. Here is a direct quote from that correspondence:

"I would be remiss if I did not ask that you consider the Superstition Mountain Historical Society and the Superstition Mountain/Lost Dutchman Museum an appropriate place for your collection of material concerning our own backyard."

Is it your contention, now, that you never received this contact?

There is another letter from Mr. David A. Leach and here is a direct quote from that letter:

"I was the one responsible for George E. Johnston and Clay Worst getting in touch with you regarding the book and the letters written by Sims Ely."

Those are two letters that I happen to know you received.

Before you received those letters, you said you would send me copies of the Sims' letters and a copy of the signature page from his book, which you never did.

Did you receive those letters from Mr. Johnston and Mr. Leach, or not?

As always, I could be wrong here. Please tell us the true story.

Joe Ribaudo
eldorado
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The Joe

Post by eldorado »

Mr. Ribaudo,

You really do need new material.

As I said earlier different communication different times.

If you have a response to the e-mail in question please post it to my mailbox at this site.

I can only assume such a response as I noted earlier was never given.

There was an opportunity to do something special that opportunity has now passed.

There are some wonderful people in Arizona I have had the honor to know some of them.

Enjoy Boulder Canyon. I am sure it is special to you.


E.


E.
Joe Ribaudo
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Good Point.

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Late,

Good point. You may be right. Send me the original e-mail of the offer you made and I will see if there is an answer. If not, I will apologize at once.

Joe Ribaudo
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The Alpha

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Late,

This was your beginning here:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject: Sims Ely and the Lost Dutchman Mine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently I was in Downieville, California and came across a hardback book by a gentlemen named Sims Ely. The book and a number of letters from the Pheonix area were being sold at a yard sale by an elderly lady who was cleaning out her garage. Seems her husband had passed away recently. Her family was from the Pheonix area and the material had belonged to her husband. Anyway I bought the books and letters, for five dollars. I have read a bit of the book and have to admit it is quite good. Haven`t looked at the letters yet but they seem to be addressed to Mr. Ely.

I have prospected for gold in california for many years. Moved here 10 years ago from georgia. My grandad use to prospect a lot in the Dahlonega area of n georgia. Anyway we have our share of lost mines up here and i have never done much but just look for gold never lost mines. I am curious is Mr. Ely a reliable source and is the lost dutchman mine still being looked for.

Also is there any museum, etc., in the Pheonix area that might be interested in this material. I would be happy to donate it once I finish reading the material.

I just stumbled across this website today.

regards,

Late49er
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As it turned out, you did not really need help locating a "museum, etc.", as you later told us you had been coming into the mountains and, more specifically, to the LDM(s) as a caretaker, for many years.

You were not a stumbling neophyte, but knew more about the LDM than anyone alive......where the mine(s) are, the makeup of the ore,.... etc.

The latest twist to your story, is that the letters and book are to be "put away nicely until we pass on".

As, you say, you were willing to give the artifacts to a museum or university here, why would the Georgia repository now need to have them "put away" for future revelation?

As I see it, you started this story with falsehoods and are now peevish because I questioned your honesty. At what point in your long story should I become a believer? Seems a reasonable question to ask. Can you answer it?

Joe Ribaudo
eldorado
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The Omega

Post by eldorado »

Dear Heidi, Joe

Multiple personalities whether of a human or canine persuasion seems to be a problem associated with your side of the matrix not ours.

In introducing a new history of the Superstitions a degree of caution was always necessary. Simply because of the nature of the parties in those mountains and how will one say it the governmental side of all of this.

The first steps to accomplish this were a bit clumsy and folks here were not of the same opinion the attempt should even be made.

As far as the truth of what has been said, anyone who has spent a great deal of time in those mountains recognize there is a mystery there that has never really been understood. As good as we have been in removing clues too many still remain that point to a past that is as you say is fantastic. You have been given the truth. The truth was always right in front of you in Late`s posts. Understanding it was the problem.

You see Mr. Ribaudo there has always been a connection between the spiritual and the material there that was close to mining operations. This you know. The Apache`s knew it. Sometimes they understood it sometimes they did not. Their truth was simple, and therefore more honest and profound, they saw the sacred all around them and could only live in wonder of what it all meant.

LDM 1, the other, the end of the trail all exist in a very small portion of the mountains. In the NW portion of the range.

It has been protected not so much from the treasure seekers but from people who simply put would destroy through ignorance and fear that which is sacred.

We have a word for this place we have used for a long time now we simply call it the canyon of the souls. The reasons for that cannot be shared.

Late did the most that anyone could expect a human being to do to make all of this public. No I am not Late. Do we use the same expressions, the same language, we always did. There is a simple reason for that.

Was there a wealth of interest when posts were made here. Yes, interest that was mostly let go because of the difficulty in seperating the wheat from the chaff sorta speak.

There are a number of agendas on you side of the matrix, most of which interest us little.

The e-mail in question was quite simple and to the point. If you review Late`s post in late 2005 you will see he continually referenced the issue in a hope that some one would step forward acknowledge their mistake and this wonderful history could be made public.

Our family is only interested in one site in those mountains. The ashes of a number of our associates lie there in a very simple garden. Cared for and nutured in a way that in today`s world is simply unexpected.

Late has not posted here in sometime. He can`t. I on the other hand choose not to anymore. I believe his last communication here was to a private party he was impressed with.

Good luck in your endeavors and may the mountains always look down on you in kindness and care.

By the way I am the one you shared water with many years ago. Always thought your hat was well tacky.


E.
Joe Ribaudo
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Water?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mr. Matrix,

Not sure why you equate my short lived second identity with the stories you have been floating, but that's fine.

If you are the "matrix", that means everyone else is outside. That is also fine with me.

The garden you speak of is a natural bed of wild flowers outside the entrance to John Chunning's dig. Many people know about it. Ask "Late" to show you the picture I sent him of the entrance.

Your are incorrect. I never shared water with you. Flights of fantasy are your forte and this is just one more.

Take care,

Joe
Joe Ribaudo
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Chunning/LDM?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

I have always said that John Chunning should have known the LDM if he ever laid eyes on it. It turned out not to be so.

Chunning's dig had no ore in it......of any value. It was not a "Pit" excavation. In all probability, it started out as an animal den, and Chunning simply dug it out.....and then some.

Mr. E. states that he and his "associates/family" have been "removing clues", which equates to deleating/changing history to me. Not the kind of work that anyone should boast of.

While they have been destroying, others have been creating false clues. Both are the endeavors of childish minds. The idea that they believe they have a right to do anything like that, in the Superstitions, is criminal.

The attempt to focus the interest of Dutch Hunters to the northwest portion of the Superstitions hints at the identity of Late's group. The lies that have been told, and are being told, about the LDM will not prevent the truth from becoming known.

I have read Late's posts, even what he deleated. One must wonder why he, or they went down such a convoluted path on this Forum. Was it just spinning a yarn to while away the boredom of a hum-drum life or has it all been done with a purpose?

"The e-mail in question was quite simple and to the point. If you review Late`s post in late 2005 you will see he continually referenced the issue in a hope that some one would step forward acknowledge their mistake and this wonderful history could be made public."

This has been manipulated from the first day that Late posted. If he had anything to offer, it was never going to be "made public". Those first words were false, and I assume the last ones will be the same.

Joe Ribaudo
eldorado
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The LDM

Post by eldorado »

Mr. Ribaudo,

Most of the Peralta Mines are in the eastern part of the range. They range from Roger`s Canyon to the Salt River. That is what one would expect given the Geology of the Range.

Most of the mines that Waltz knew about could be considered there also. LDM 1 is not.

Personally I could care less if every dutch hunter that ever lived made there way to the north west portion of the range. After Christmas the only ways in or out have been dealt with.

The flower garden has nothing to do with Chunning. It is in the eastern part of the range directly across from a covered Peralta Mine.

It seems odd that a man of integrity would attack someone that can`t even respond. Or was that Heidi talking?

Well must be going. Have a good life.


E.
Joe Ribaudo
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Just Talk

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

E.,

I already have a good life, but thanks anyway.

Take care,

Joe
Joe Ribaudo
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Old Mines

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

E.,

That's a wonderful area to explore. Lot's of old mines that date back into the 1800s, and maybe farther back than that.

Some of the old claims were: The Plato, Snowbird, Randolph, World Beater, Sky Blue, Monarch.....and the list goes on.

There were a number of folks at the Rendezvous who had visited them all.
No doubt they were bumping elbows with a lot of ghosts.

"It seems odd that a man of integrity would attack someone that can`t even respond. Or was that Heidi talking?"

"Heidi" does seem to stick in a lot of people's craws. If that's all you can throw at me, I will consider it a compliment. We covered some good ground when Heidi's fat little paws :lol: were pounding out the posts, and those who could only find the energy to insult me......stuck to the topics.

Late's posts were what they were. I said exactly the same thing to him as I said to you. I believe I could do a search and come up with the post, if you like.

Take care,

Joe
eldorado
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The Late

Post by eldorado »

Mr. Zentull,

Thank you for the kind words. It was not our intent to have this information available on this site but it is what it is.

Your statements are elequent and much appreciated.

Late`s ashes were left in a place he loved and cared for for many, many years, in the Superstitions. I won`t bore you with the details. Let`s just say he has gone home.

Also I would like to thank those who know us who have made their feelings known in the last few weeks. Late touched a lot of people and did a lot of good in Arizona helping the less fortunate. Not many people know this. He was never interested in the public light.


E.
ben davis

Late

Post by ben davis »

Late,

Wakan Tankan Nici Un.

We did it our way my friend.

"The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears" Wisdom from the human beings.

Ben
Joe Ribaudo
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The Great Spirit

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Ben,

No one who has studied the Sioux, even superficially, is unfamiliar with "Wakan Tankan". Late is in the company of they who have no birth, nor death.

Joe
ben davis

The words

Post by ben davis »

Joe,

A favorite expression of Late`s to us. A message to live by.

Thanks,

Ben
klondike
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Late

Post by klondike »

Yigaquu Osaniyu adanvto adadoligi nigohilvi nasquv utloyasdi nihi.


The Canyon of the Souls. The last stand.

Calalus=the other, the other=Calalus

The heart of Calalus, hidden.


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djui5
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Re: Late

Post by djui5 »

Yigaquu Osaniyu adanvto adadoligi nigohilvi nasquv utloyasdi nihi.

Klondike
Yes :)
Calalus=the other, the other=Calalus
52 6f 6d 61 6e 20 43 61 6c 61 6c 75 73 20 68 61 73 20 74 72 61 76 65 6c 65 64 20 61 20 6c 6f 6e 67 20 77 61 79 20 6d 79 20 66 72 69 65 6e 64 2c 20 61 20 76 65 72 79 20 6c 6f 6e 67 20 77 61 79 2e
Randy Wright
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Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
eldorado
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Calalus

Post by eldorado »

Hello Randy,

Klondike has a way with words. Pretty much to the point. In one sentence he summed everything up.

The holy, the sacred, not words that we have used lightly. Words that were importent to the people who perished in the Canyon of the Souls and to the folks who have cared for the area for over a 150 years.

From what we can tell the last remaining citizens of Calalus fled to this most sacred of places to their people. Here the remaining religious leaders placed their most cherished items in the other, sealed it up and prepared to fight one last battle with the Toltecs.

Quite a battle it was. Many gatekeepers, Toltecs, and the leadership of the city were slain. When it was all over the bodies were left where they fell. Ironically enough Christians, Jews, and Moslems fought together and died together that day. All on the same side.

Peacefully they remained until the Peralta`s disturbed their slumber in the search for gold. There was plenty of that but far more. The last remaining resting place not just for the dead but for a people. A people who only wanted to live in peace.

Once this was understood, the place was hidden and known by only a few. Those few are some of the most famous dutch hunters ever known.

Jim Bark did not spend all of that time on the Salt River for a two cent gold mine. It was just an excuse to help preserve the sacred.

Jacob yes he too was a gatekeeper. He kept his secrets well. Who knows one day this present generation of dutchhunters may even get his last name right.

Now that the truth is known it is really not importent it is believed. One day it will be. Perhaps in a time that is better than this one. A time when folks can appreciate what man can become, because once he was, not simply what he is today.

Well time for a card game. When in Rome do as the Romans.


Take Care,


E.
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djui5
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Post by djui5 »

It's all starting to make sense now 8O

Deal me in! :D
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Joe Ribaudo
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Artifacts

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy and E,

Since you two seem to be the resident experts on the subject of Calalus, can you tell us where the artifacts are today? Do you know why the subject has disappeared over the archaeological horizon?

Thanks,

Joe
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djui5
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Post by djui5 »

"The records found by ***** and ***** appear to be a last record of the people, written in haste at the time when the end was approaching. The record does not make clear just what the end was, but it has been concluded that these Europeans were exterminated by the natives, who, it appears, harassed them and made war upon them from the beginning to the end. This conclusion has been drawn, since what appears to be the last writing of the recorder of these ancient deeds states:"
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
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