Yellow Jackets

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klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby klondike » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:09 pm

Gentlemen:

Let us just agree to disagree. 10 years is a long time. There is more information on this web site and another one for anybody to figure out the history of Oz and Calalus. It just takes work, perseverance and a little luck. This was perhaps my favorite post.

Much a person could learn here.

Years ago my father visited the Superstition Mountains with an archaeologist friend from Harvard University. She was quite a lady. Dad was impressed with her work in Mexico. I tagged along hoping this would be a rather eventful trip. I was not disappointed.

We entered the range from Hieroglyphic Canyon, crossed Superstition Mountain and made our way to the saddle high above West Boulder Canyon. We camped there for the night. To the east was a wondrous view of Weaver`s Needle.

That night under an incredible sky my father shared with his friend the history of our people, the location of sites we would be visiting over the next few days and the history of the last days of Calalus that had been handed down from generation to generation. I will never forget his discussion of the creation of the Tucson Artifacts. They were made in the last days of the people in a small canyon, (Eldorado Canyon, Nevada) on the Colorado River. The artifacts were forged as a map home that one day might lead the descendents of Calalus back to their most holy site in the Superstitions. The relics were later dumped in a marshy area of Arizona to make room for living survivors of the holocast that befell the people. That is another history for another day.

Over the next several days we visited a number of sites and finally made our way to Horse Mesa on the Salt River. From there we entered several holy places and for days dad`s friend not only had the opportunity to study the people`s history but to also acquaint herself with the history of a more ancient people that were the reason the settlers of Calalus came to America to begin with.

I think dad was very interested in her thoughts on what she had seen and for many years she joined us and others to visit the range to protect and care for the most important historical site in the world. I too became her friend and when she passed away felt a loss that has never really been filled.

The trail we followed is the trail that is engraved on the Tucson Artifacts. The name of the holy site in the Superstitions is mentioned, many times on the artifacts but has never been recognized for what it is.

Roy,

You see this lady had written many works on early america but was open to knowledge that contradicted everything she had ever seen and written. And she did write the definitive work on the Library Oz. The work that is taught to our young people. She was able to do something that only a brilliant mind can do, that is balance contradictions and know that looking for consistency in an ever changing and inconsistent world is foolishness. Simply put Oz is. Rhoda is. I should know. Recently I was doing research work in the underground workings of Rhoda. Exactly where it always has been. What for now is called Arizona.

Good luck gentlemen. Time to exit gracefully and again wish you the best.


Klondike

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:49 pm

Cactusjumper Joe wrote
I believe the bodies of the colonists from Roanoke have been found. Other than that, great post.


I presume you are referring to this:
http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/usa-archaeologists-discover-remains-of-first-british-settlers-in-north-america/
<Not making any claims of veracity for that source, just was able to pull it up quickly>

This accounts for seven remains, leaving some 100 un-accounted for, and no human remains found in or near the colony itself. Also the cannons were left behind. Even so, this set of seven does fit with one very old report, only too bad that it was not followed up on in time.

Klondike wrote
Gentlemen:

Let us just agree to disagree. 10 years is a long time. There is more information on this web site and another one for anybody to figure out the history of Oz and Calalus. It just takes work, perseverance and a little luck.


No problem in agreeing to disagree, especially when NO PROOF has been offered that your tale of OZ has any substance to it.

Klondike also wrote
This was perhaps my favorite post.

Much a person could learn here. <snip>


What? More repeated posting? Another of those stories of nameless people, doing all kinds of things that "confirm" your tale? Really Klondike?

Klondike also wrote
Roy,

You see this lady had written many works on early america but was open to knowledge that contradicted everything she had ever seen and written. And she did write the definitive work on the Library Oz. The work that is taught to our young people. She was able to do something that only a brilliant mind can do, that is balance contradictions and know that looking for consistency in an ever changing and inconsistent world is foolishness.


So this nameless lady has written a definitive work on the Library OZ? Where is it published? What AUTHOR name should we hunt up?

Klondike also wrote

Simply put Oz is. Rhoda is. I should know. Recently I was doing research work in the underground workings of Rhoda. Exactly where it always has been. What for now is called Arizona.


You should know? Isn't that nice! :D Hmm well then, that leaves us no room for doubt! :roll: So when are you going to publish your findings, and make public the underground ruins of Rhoda? :mrgreen:

If that sounded a bit sarcastic, it is a very good perception on your part. How can we take YOUR WORD on any of this, when you can't provide even a single photo of one of the supposed texts that were supposedly recovered from this supposed library in a supposed underground city? Can you see the problem there? Somehow I don't think you can. 8O

Klondike also wrote
Good luck gentlemen. Time to exit gracefully and again wish you the best.


https://youtu.be/7FPELc1wEvk

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:01 pm

My word - I have found it! The REAL LIBRARY OF OZ! It is even the Royal library at that!

http://www.dorothyandozma.com/the-royal-library-of-oz/

Have not found any works of Plato in it yet, but have only just started to explore it. I had no idea that Klondike was talking about this library all along!
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:02 pm

klondike wrote:Gentlemen:

Let us just agree to disagree. 10 years is a long time. There is more information on this web site and another one for anybody to figure out the history of Oz and Calalus. It just takes work, perseverance and a little luck. This was perhaps my favorite post.

Much a person could learn here.

Years ago my father visited the Superstition Mountains with an archaeologist friend from Harvard University. She was quite a lady. Dad was impressed with her work in Mexico. I tagged along hoping this would be a rather eventful trip. I was not disappointed.

We entered the range from Hieroglyphic Canyon, crossed Superstition Mountain and made our way to the saddle high above West Boulder Canyon. We camped there for the night. To the east was a wondrous view of Weaver`s Needle.

That night under an incredible sky my father shared with his friend the history of our people, the location of sites we would be visiting over the next few days and the history of the last days of Calalus that had been handed down from generation to generation. I will never forget his discussion of the creation of the Tucson Artifacts. They were made in the last days of the people in a small canyon, (Eldorado Canyon, Nevada) on the Colorado River. The artifacts were forged as a map home that one day might lead the descendents of Calalus back to their most holy site in the Superstitions. The relics were later dumped in a marshy area of Arizona to make room for living survivors of the holocast that befell the people. That is another history for another day.

Over the next several days we visited a number of sites and finally made our way to Horse Mesa on the Salt River. From there we entered several holy places and for days dad`s friend not only had the opportunity to study the people`s history but to also acquaint herself with the history of a more ancient people that were the reason the settlers of Calalus came to America to begin with.

I think dad was very interested in her thoughts on what she had seen and for many years she joined us and others to visit the range to protect and care for the most important historical site in the world. I too became her friend and when she passed away felt a loss that has never really been filled.

The trail we followed is the trail that is engraved on the Tucson Artifacts. The name of the holy site in the Superstitions is mentioned, many times on the artifacts but has never been recognized for what it is.

Roy,

You see this lady had written many works on early america but was open to knowledge that contradicted everything she had ever seen and written. And she did write the definitive work on the Library Oz. The work that is taught to our young people. She was able to do something that only a brilliant mind can do, that is balance contradictions and know that looking for consistency in an ever changing and inconsistent world is foolishness. Simply put Oz is. Rhoda is. I should know. Recently I was doing research work in the underground workings of Rhoda. Exactly where it always has been. What for now is called Arizona.

Good luck gentlemen. Time to exit gracefully and again wish you the best.


Klondike


Ben,

Once again you decline to mention your "ladies" name. There is good reason for that, because her history might not conform with your claims. As you usually do, you pick someone who has died to tie your story to. I believe she died in 1990, so no denials can come from her.

I have a number of papers that she wrote. Of course, she never mentions anything in any of them about the Tucson artifacts or ever being in the Superstitions.

Perhaps she was not as impressed as you thought. It would be enlightening to see the writing that she did on the library of OZ.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:41 pm

Joe I think we have been talking with a person whom is mentally unstable. Possibly schizophrenic, sociopathic and a pathological liar. His tale just grows and grows, to include all sorts of mysteries great and small, while we poor dumb outsiders cannot hope to grasp these wondrous pieces of information.

If he were really working this into a novel, he went past the point of believability that is the mark of a good novel. I believe you spoke with Ben about his story and felt that he really does believe all this, which I have to say is of course his own choice of what to believe, but may well be over the line of sanity. How many nameless people have been used in his posts, to tell stories, and how many different IDs are being used by that same computer? The way the posts are written indicates it is all the same person doing the writing. Certain 'tells' like "you folks" (and "you people") or the use of "well," in a disparaging way repeatedly. There is no real name to attach to any of these IDs other than Ben Davis.

If he truly is a professor and Judge Advocate, he really should seek professional help. In fact this discussion should be provided to that mental health professional, to illustrate the delusions. They may be harmless, and you know we have talked with people who sure sounded bat-crap crazy on another forum for some time (but whom in private, admitted that he did NOT believe the stuff he was posting, and his real reason for posting that outrageous stuff was simply to liven up the discussion - he got a kick out of it when people would think of him as that "crazy BB") but that craziness was all a sham for laughs. This does not appear to be the case with Klondike, Late49er et al.

I don't even have any issue with a person having multiple nicknames, heck a very close friend and partner has been collecting nicknames like they are heirlooms, and now uses about four or five frequently - but always he is the same guy, not pretending to be someone else. Ben is either pretending to be someone else, in which case it is part of his game at least, or if he really believes he is several different people then it really is mental illness.

I have lost count of how many times Ben has left, quit, departed etc and spent time 'pouting' away from the forum, only to return later. He might well leave for good, which is not my goal at all - I think he enjoys playing his games here, and may be getting his laughs at our expense. Or at least he thinks he is getting over on us, which is not really the case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Klondike - perhaps you had not read Plato closely, or you would have caught that the language of the Atlantians was something very akin to Phoenician. So much so that a key name in Atlantian, is Phoenician. quote

To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.


Gadeirus is a Phoenician name - and that was the language of the country, according to Plato, for these Atlantians.

There is no known Phoenician writing as old as Atlantis. The story could have been passed down orally, or perhaps preserved in cave paintings that assisted the retelling of oral myths over the span of time until it could be preserved as is now believed to be the case with the Trojan war. Phoenician language is Semitic, and is not a very pleasant sounding language, certainly not "song" like. The tiny bit of Phoenician chronicles that we have today, do include references to a war or several wars with a people distant over the sea known as the Tityans, which would be pronounced very like the way we say Titans. <See Cory's Ancient Fragments, the Tyrian Annals>

You also stated that this library of Oz includes gold and copper tablets or plates, and again the only known peoples to have recorded important documents on gold plates, are Carthage and the Etruscans, which we know of because one or two (memory fails on this point, but at least one) treaties between these two powers still exists. Not Romans or Byzantines. Ancient Hebrews did record documents on copper and silver scrolls, but not on gold - it was perhaps too precious, too rare and expensive to use for that purpose.

I wonder how much of this tale of OZ, built on to the Calalus story, exists only in your mind's eye? When you view Eldorado canyon, do you see the canyon or are you seeing much more?

I won't be throwing away my books any time soon - sorry but they are far too valuable to me for that approach. Faulty information can be found in books that is true, but the truth can be proved up and this tale of OZ, now including so many different things that it would be a chore to list them all (even the LDM and the PSMs) just has nothing to prove it up.

Klondike - if you had proposed your story in a different way, as in you BELIEVE there is evidence of a late Roman colony in the Superstitions, that you had found interesting sites and evidence, and not pressed the case as if it were a proven fact, I might have been willing to even hike in to check out a site you proposed. But no, you have insisted all along that it is absolute fact and a very tangled story at that.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:11 am

Roy,

I think Ben is just a bored professor having a good time for a really loooong time. I would also prefer that he stick around and continue his fantasy. He has sent me down a number of interesting historical trails and kept my brain working at the right time in my life. It just wants to lay down and rest. Over the years, a number of people have done the same thing for me, including you and Beth.

The only archaeologist that really fits his bill is Cynthia Irwin-Williams. Had she been involved in the Tucson artifacts or the library of OZ, she would have gone public with the information. She was, indeed, a remarkable woman. The whole story being controversial would not have fazed her in the least. She was a scrapper. I had Cynthia pegged as "the lady archaeologist" when Ben first told the story. That was many years ago, as I recall.

I believe she was another piece of his fiction that he picked up from a casual conversation that I was involved in. The more the story changes, the more it stays the same.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby klondike » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:54 am

Gentlemen:

This explains very clearly why for me it is time simply to move on.

"I really enjoyed your posts and wish you well in your endeavors. Joe made a comment that really has helped me understand it well is time to let go. 10 years is a long time and well none of us are getting any younger. I have seen too many good folks pass on and it really is time to celebrate the years remaining and not dwell on what was not accomplished. A lot has been accomplished and that is what should be remembered".

Why you two persist in such dysfunctional behavior is anyone`s guess. Perhaps it really is all about failure and the frustration that goes with that failure. Believe this probably sums it up well:

Hello Mr. Ribaudo:

Not really sure what your problem is with N.P. and Mr. Roberts. I have always found their posts a good read. Whether or not you agree or disagree with them they are respectful and seem to want to add to the body of knowledge regarding the Superstitions.

On the other hand your posts seem to more times than not get personal and you continually play the integrity card. What is really sad is that your behavior tends to infect others. Your calling folks liars has become routine, it is just boring but now Roy has picked up on your behavior and he now is doing the same thing. Sad legacy Joe, sad legacy.

I will just put this here. Maybe it will help your memory:

Mr. Ribaudo,


It is sad to see someone get as desperate as you. Because in desperation one makes mistake after mistake and whether they are pointed out or not they pile up and the totality of mistakes gives the true measure of a man. In the case of Calalus and the Tucson Artifacts it was demonstrated that your knowledge of the matter is limited to secondary sources and you lack an ability to engage in a dialogue regarding the artifacts on a fundamental level. But really that is not such a big deal. Few can. But your real weakness was to not be open for the possibility that something remarkable is sort of speak in your neck of the woods. You would have done a lot better to simply engage in a dialogue admit your limited knowledge and allow Starman to work with you. He was more than willing to do so.

Another trait of desperate people if when possible they will play the integrity card. Much the same way a person who is guilty of a crime will maintain their innocence to the end even when the truth is evident. Also desperate people will get others involved in their shameful behavior. Much as you have done with the Superstition Mountain Historical Society. Tell me Joe are they too so low that they sanction the publication of private e-mails? If those folks have a wit of integrity they will disown you and explain that they had nothing to do with this. If they don`t this simply validates one of the reasons we did not pursue things with them. You see Joe, your lack of integrity has now put into question the integrity of the Historical Society. If they sanction your behavior they are no better than you and in a sense worse. Worse because they claim to be honorable folks.

As we have made it clear we do not enjoy these kind of discussions and prefer to discuss issues on their merit but I see that is impossible. And as I mentioned before you are desperate and desperate people make mistakes. But what then was the mistake you made when you played the integity card? As in other things you simply did not do your homework.


I would refer anyone reading this to take the time to look at a short dialogue that was published on another web site, "The Lost Dutchman Mine". This dialogue appears in a section moderated by Joe Ribaudo and is entitled,"Jake`s ore". the dialogue occurred in October of 2005.

What is clear in this exchange is we were up front that after pursuing several possibilites in Arizona we decided that it was best to do something different. What we were oblique about is that when we said placement in the South we meant South Africa. If you notice what is telling Mr. Ribaudo recognizes his understanding and states, "I will mind my own business here".




Late,

I would suggest that you contact greyhair on this forum, or wait for the camp out and speak to him in person.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,

There is no real reason to speak with Grayhair. We have decided to donate the written material to a University in the South. We are currently discussing placement of the items with with two institutions. It is what it is.

Bill,

The information I am referencing comes from Martin`s diary. We still are debating what to do.



Regards,


Late 49er
Late,

Sorry, I just assumed you would be trying to place the material in Arizona. I will mind my own business here.

Joe,

We wanted to place the material in Arizona. It is clear that it is not wanted. We approached several entities in the state.

Joe,

I need to apologize for my remarks. Irregardless of the circumstances they were inappropriate.

I am sure the folks down there do a wonderful job in promoting Arizona at its history.


Regards,


Late49er

Bill

Have to admit there is a certain amount of humor to all of this.

But have to say the people we have selected will do a quality job and at the end of the day that is all that is really importent.

My associates are both from Georgia and we have selected an institution close to them, and actually given their efforts it is appropriate they receive recognition in their own neck of the woods.

Perhaps this history is better stored near the folks who preserved and nutured the area. Personally I am very proud of what has been done.

Hopefully we will post some material here soon that will be of interest to you.


Regards,


You see Mr. Ribaudo we do not stoop as low as you and the historical society. We simply use public sources. It is just wrong what you did.

Mr. Croves,

As anyone can see you are emotional and I am sorry if my response to you was taken wrong. I think that truthfully Martin did try to engage you and yes you threw him under the train. But that is Ok. Simply do your research.


When all is said and done I would like to repeat what I said in a previous post. It is also what Jim Bark meant. And this goes for all of us.


What is important is that Oz exists, the settlement of the ancients exist and there is a library in South Africa that tells the whole story. I believe one day that someone who saw the tv program on the Artifacts will sense wonder. They will remember Mr. Bent`s work that was shown and begin a journey of truth that will take them to Oz. It will not be an easy trail. They will be exposed to science that will claim the relics are fake, this they will overcome. They will visit the Superstitions and much like the MCGee`s see and experience things that simply do not add up. They perhaps will see these posts and begin to look at the Tucson Artifacts and go high up on a Saddle on the east side of West Boulder Canyon, see the symbol of the ancients, and follow the trail all the way to Horse Mesa. From there they will probably find something we have missed and make their way into the underground chambers there and follow the cave system that will take them up into Coronado Mesa and into the library of Oz. There they will see the map room that was the creation point of the trail maps and they will notice a simple chair. They will walk over to that chair and on that chair will be the address of a museum in South Africa with one simple message, "May the Stars keep you safe" I would imagine they will keep all of this to themselves and make their way to South Africa and knock on the entrance. I suspect they will bring the note and simply say, "May the stars keep you safe". They will be allowed in and experance the awe of wonder of the most important historical site in the world.


I look forward to meeting such a man.


May the stars keep you safe.



I would not worry to much about who is laughing at who. At the end of day perhaps folks are really laughing at you.


Klondike

Now gentlemen, are you simply addicted to dysfunctinal behavior? Is it all you have left to dwell on? I suspect it maybe. 8O

It really is well boring.

Happy trails,


Klondike

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby klondike » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:41 am

Hello Roy,

Just one final point. Anyone can play the dysfunctional games you and Joe play. Let`s see:

"Joe I think we have been talking with a person whom is mentally unstable. Possibly schizophrenic, sociopathic and a pathological liar. His tale just grows and grows, to include all sorts of mysteries great and small, while we poor dumb outsiders cannot hope to grasp these wondrous pieces of information".

All one has to do is replace a word here and a word there and what do we have:

I think I am talking to two persons whom are mentally unstable. Possibly schizophrenic, sociopathic, and pathological liars. Their instability just grows and grows, to include all sorts of mysteries such as posting as household pets and blaming their failures on others. They lack the basic intelligence and social skills to either deal in a meaningful dialogue or do basic research in a topic they claim interest in.

It is clear they are both unstable and unsuitable for human interaction of any sort and we can only hope they obtain proper medical attention.

It seems this is the only kind of interaction you folks can deal with, so while I am out of here I believe everytime you folks post crazy stuff, I will just re-post the last two posts.

Oh by the way Roy have you and Joe finished your treatise of whether or not Jacob was a cross-dresser. Seems Joe had put a lot of effort into that enterprise. Should be right up your alley.

Have a great life ladies.


Klondike

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:11 am

Ben,

I think you have rested our case for us. After ten years, I doubt you will be permanently gone. You have done this many times before. Summer is a long time to be bored.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:27 pm

klondike wrote:Hello Roy,Just one final point. Anyone can play the dysfunctional games you and Joe play. Let`s see: <snip>


You could have easily proven my assertions erroneous. Real names for real people would have helped. By the way, many people think that anyone who goes out treasure hunting is crazy, so trying to upset me (and I suspect Joe as well) by such nanner-nanner-boo-boo statements won't have any effect. Heck I have relatives that think treasure hunting is crazy, so how is your statement going to bother me? :mrgreen: Apparently you do recognize that your posts are indeed pointing to some possible difficulties in your health, or it would not have bothered you either. A check up could not hurt, and could do some good. Don't expect that we are going to call the nice fellows in white coats for you either - for all we know this entire thing has been just a mind game for your entertainment.

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Ben,

I think you have rested our case for us. After ten years, I doubt you will be permanently gone. You have done this many times before. Summer is a long time to be bored.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo


Have to agree with you on all counts. I am still hoping to read how exactly Jacob Waltz is now linked to Atlantis. Ben is the only person to have ever made that link, as far as I know.

For that matter, let me ask Klondike directly, concerning another aspect of this incredible story.

Klondike - how is Atlantis connected with the Calalus colonists? There seems to be a huge gap in the time line there, over 9000 years.

If that one is not a problem, what about the local Hohokam, are they also linked to Atlantis or no?

Thank you in advance.

Oroblanco
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:51 pm

Oroblanco wrote:For that matter, let me ask Klondike directly, concerning another aspect of this incredible story.

Klondike - how is Atlantis connected with the Calalus colonists? There seems to be a huge gap in the time line there, over 9000 years.

If that one is not a problem, what about the local Hohokam, are they also linked to Atlantis or no?

Thank you in advance.

Oroblanco


Not repeating the questions to be trite amigo, just want to clarify something before you answer. This is NOT A TRAP. I would simply like to read your explanations of how Waltz and the LDM are linked to Atlantis (and Calalus by extension), and whether the Hohokam are also linked, or are they NOT linked to Atlantis and Calalus. If they are not linked, do you have an explanation for why they seem to have had no contact with the Atlantians and or Calalus colonists? Just curious, no trick question(s) involved there. Surely you must have these seeming issues sorted out to your own satisfaction, and I would like to read them.

One other side thing here too, but for some of us our "household pets" are not the same as a house cat or goldfish living in a jar. They are more like family, and working partners. We depend on our dogs to do certain jobs, which they excel at, one of which is protecting the camps. I am alive today, because of a Husky dog. Our dogs know what their jobs are, and do them - including such otherwise mundane tasks as protecting a garden from raiding raccoons and squirrels, which is more like a pastime for them than "work". I like dogs (all of them) including Joe's dog, and the dogs he had previously, which are very intelligent and nice looking animals. They too are not mere household pets, they also have jobs to 'pull their weight'. In fact here in "cowboy country" there are a great many working dogs, almost as many as working horses. But even "house" cats, often have jobs to perform like keeping the rodent population in check, so it is not really fair to refer to all such animals as "house pets". Were you and I to be friends, I would probably ask about your pets, if any, family, and home life as well.

Joe and I have disagreed and argued on many topics over the years, and our disagreements have no bearing on friendship, nor would it between you and I, if you are able to have an argument (debate) without it becoming a personal feud. If these personal communications between friends are bothersome for you, please feel free to ignore those portions and I won't be offended in the least. We also communicate by email and phone, and we have visited at his home (and I hope, some day he will visit us here) so there is nothing underhanded going on - just friendship.

I look forward to your explanation of how Calalus is linked to Atlantis, even if indirectly, and the Hohokam, if they are indeed also linked. Thanks in advance;

Oroblanco
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:49 pm

Roy,

I think that Ben decided to call it a day......so to speak, when he realized that the archaeologist he was talking about was known to me. Any statements he made concerning Cynthia Irwin-Williams
relationship with himself or his dad, could be countered with facts about the lady.

That really was, well, the end of the road for him. No place to go from there.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:40 pm

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Roy,

I think that Ben decided to call it a day......so to speak, when he realized that the archaeologist he was talking about was known to me. Any statements he made concerning Cynthia Irwin-Williams
relationship with himself or his dad, could be countered with facts about the lady.

That really was, well, the end of the road for him. No place to go from there.

Take care,

Joe


I see - cornered, in a manner of speaking. Perhaps he was referring to some other female archaeologist? I suspect not, because your naming her seems to have got Ben into quite a fix.

Heck we had not even gotten to the Howe iron working evidence and what appears to be a short sword like a Roman gladius found in America, of course this would also tend to point away from the Superstition mountains so probably it is for the best to avoid that mess.

If Ben truly believes in Calalus and Oz, I suspect that it requires a sort of mental focus to envision it, rather than being able to poke around stone ruins. Arizona is a most picturesque land, and has quite a history, it is not difficult to imagine cities, fortresses, perhaps even underground vaults. It is even a rather 'main' route to the north from Mexico, as several of the early Spanish explorers marched through Arizona on their route north, and as for travel across from east to west or vice versa, there are bits of evidence that some travelers passed that way too hundreds of years ago. That is why I asked about what he sees in Eldorado canyon for one example, or we could have used Fish creek canyon where he believes an epic battle of some kind took place.

What do you think about the iron slag and worked iron found on the James V. Howe residence in Virginia? As I understand it, under a microscope, the iron matches ancient Greek primitive method iron (made in a bloomer) and although charcoal was found in situ, the Smithsonian refused to do a C-14 test on it. And as I understand it, the iron has been dismissed as "colonial" era by our historians, although there is no record or reason to believe that. Any opinion? There are several other very curious and apparently quite ancient iron foundries, of the most primitive type, found in several states - and always our historians quickly dismiss them as colonial era even where no colonial settlers were ever known to have been active. Quite a few were found in Ohio, something like thirty or more if memory serves.

Another intriguing angle are the finds of horse remains in America, which post date the extinction of horses in the Americas during the last Ice Age, but predate the arrival of Columbus. One fringe type article (not that far out but still out there) is at:
http://thewildhorseconspiracy.org/2013/07/02/exciting-article-about-by-phd-steven-jones-re-more-recent-surviving-native-horse-in-north-america/

One argument holds that perhaps horses did not go extinct entirely in America, which is of course possible, but it is also possible that horses were brought here on ships just as the Spanish and Portuguese and English did but by much earlier visitors and possibly by accident. For example, according to Diodorus and Aristotle, the Phoenician discovery of America was due to accidental crossing because of storms (like the Calalus story) and the ships were actually carrying colonists intended for the west coast of Africa. If they were colonists, they may well have brought horses and other livestock with them. To tie this in with Calalus, did the Calalus colonists have horses? Or any livestock? How were they living, by farming, or fishing, hunting etc? These aspects have never been addressed, yet if the story were true, the people had to live on something - perhaps by exacting tribute (stealing at sword point) the needed foods and supplies from native tribes? Most of the Europeans did this, sometimes rather brutally, so it is a logical scenario.


Anyway there was a lot of other ground we could have gone over with Ben and his group, had he not decided to run away. I hope you folks are staying in the A/C during the heat of the day, and don't forget to give Smoky an extra treat for no reason.
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby klondike » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:18 am

Roy,

The questions you have asked have for the most part been answered over the years. If they are important to you take the time to research the posts here and elsewhere. You will find the answers.

Mr. Ribaudo,

One of the most important criteria of individuals we have brought on board with this project is that at some time in their career they have been exposed to for a lack of a better word that which is impossible. Such an exposure and how they dealt with it tells a lot about their character and their abilities. The Oz project required a long term commitment because of the magnitude of what was involved. And only very, very special folks were considered.

They understood the need for secrecy and in return they were rewarded with being a part of something that would only come around once in their lives. This was such a project.

So after Valsequillo is it so hard to believe that a dirt archaeologist would become involved in such an opportunity. I am sure that Juan Camacho would only smile and wish he was there.

You see gentlemen, the discovery of the Tucson Artifacts and the discoveries at Valsequillo destroyed careers and made some very remarkable folks wish they had never been a part of either. The library of Oz? If this discovery had ever been made public the careers of those involved would have been finished off with the discoveries taken from them and the whole thing being covered up.

As I have stated, and this is really quite simple:

"I really enjoyed your posts and wish you well in your endeavors. Joe made a comment that really has helped me understand it well is time to let go. 10 years is a long time and well none of us are getting any younger. I have seen too many good folks pass on and it really is time to celebrate the years remaining and not dwell on what was not accomplished. A lot has been accomplished and that is what should be remembered".


Goodbye Gentlemen


Klondike

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:43 am

Taking the last first, Klondike wrote

Goodbye Gentlemen


Goodbye Klondike, I wish you well, thank you for the interesting discussion.

I do find it rather odd that you would choose to back out of the discussion at this point. Did Joe put you into an untenable position by naming that female archaeologist?

I thought you had said this site of yours is the "most important" historical site in the world? You have linked it with Atlantis, which alone would be enough to warrant a great deal of study and discussion, enough 'verbiage' for a century of chewing it over. No site on the planet is certified as being directly linked to Atlantis. Hence the discovery of a site (anywhere it might be) with real evidence of Atlantis, would be very big news and provide plenty of material for discussion and debate.


What led you to believe there is an ancient ship buried in the Salt river? It is certainly possible that the river was navigable at some point in the past, with more water in the river systems of course, yet this route would lead to the gulf of California and Pacific, which as you know would be a long way round to be in contact with the Mediterranean. Even for a one-way trip. Storms have indeed carried ships all the way across the oceans, including the Pacific, but I don't know of any case where a ship was carried by storms from the Atlantic to end on the coast of the Americas much less the gulf of California which would seem to require a deliberate choice by the ship captain, which by itself means the gulf was already known OR the ship was exploring.

Apparently this topic is not all that important to you. Ten years or 100 years should make no difference, heck more than one historian, archaeologist, anthropologist, just about you name the specialty and the "greats" have spent lifetimes in study and research - and in general, publishing their finds. You on the other hand are ready to move on to greener pastures, and make no move to publish that library you made such a big deal out of.

You also hinted that this library is already partly "published" in this thread of the forum, which indicates that it is not "in existence" so much as being created on the fly. New elements are added over time, often from discussions in the various treasure forums. What should we make of that? On the other hand you expressed great concern over the safety and security of the library, when simply publishing it would have done more to preserve and protect it (for as long as men read books) than any hiding place or museum, however obscure or remote it might be. Natural disasters can strike any place and at any time, and that library would be lost forever. Not if it were published however, for numerous copies of all the works would be spread over numerous places, making it safe as man can make it.

Of some of the other points, like a requirement that your candidates for inclusion have had to work with the "impossible" - this could be another red flag. It is all too true that professional academicians can have their careers ruined by phony things they endorse, yet if you only include persons that have had their professional standing ruined by some "impossible" thing, your group will have that much less standing in the academic community. Your insistence that we must discard (ignore) our books, to proceed in studying Calalus (and Oz, Rhoda etc) is for me a very large red flag. I don't mind rejecting what a history book claims, in fact we can find and point out errors and false segments fairly easily, which does not mean that the whole of these history books are wrong and erroneous either. However to reject a history book, I need to see strong evidence that it is erroneous, or heavily biased, promoting some agenda or other good reasons to so reject it. So I remain curious as to why you want only those academics that have worked with the "impossible" and why we must practically forget everything we know of history.

So we are left with a long, half-told-tale, nothing having been posted or otherwise produced to substantiate it, and the main promoter of the tale retreating to 'other fields'. Can you guess what kinds of conclusions this will lead us to? Joe and I have kept the door open for the possibility of your story and of Calalus being possibly real, so your abandonment of your 'position' only reinforces the doubts.

Good luck and good hunting Klondike, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:55 am

Roy,

As I have stated many times, I don't know $#!t about rocks, which also holds true for metals, such as the Virgina slag you mentioned.

I have often wondered this about Ben's story. Could he have such a belief in the Tucson artifacts that he desperately grasps any story that gives some buoyancy to the natural weight of the sinking lead artifacts? Much like NP's Jesuit mission at Burns Ranch, the story/picture will eventually sink into the trash-heap of false history.

I have always been open to the story of Calalus. The thing that bothered me the most, made me a doubter, was the lack of an archaeological trail. Man goes nowhere without leaving traces of his passing. The Tucson artifacts, if real, could not exist as a historical/archaeological island. I believe you have expressed the same concerns.....many times.

As someone who believes we have been visited and manipulated by "gods" from the sky, I think my mind is pretty open. It's Ben's arguments for OZ that have made me a doubter of Calalus. It's because of his theft of many varied stories, such as NPs Spirit Mountain tale, and my entire Stone Map Trail, that I continue to be convinced that his narrative is complete fiction.

I believe he will be around for a good deal longer.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:08 pm

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Roy,

As I have stated many times, I don't know $#!t about rocks, which also holds true for metals, such as the Virgina slag you mentioned.

I have often wondered this about Ben's story. Could he have such a belief in the Tucson artifacts that he desperately grasps any story that gives some buoyancy to the natural weight of the sinking lead artifacts? Much like NP's Jesuit mission at Burns Ranch, the story/picture will eventually sink into the trash-heap of false history.

I have always been open to the story of Calalus. The thing that bothered me the most, made me a doubter, was the lack of an archaeological trail. Man goes nowhere without leaving traces of his passing. The Tucson artifacts, if real, could not exist as a historical/archaeological island. I believe you have expressed the same concerns.....many times.

As someone who believes we have been visited and manipulated by "gods" from the sky, I think my mind is pretty open. It's Ben's arguments for OZ that have made me a doubter of Calalus. It's because of his theft of many varied stories, such as NPs Spirit Mountain tale, and my entire Stone Map Trail, that I continue to be convinced that his narrative is complete fiction.

I believe he will be around for a good deal longer.

Take care,

Joe


I hope you are right about Ben, he does not strike me as the type that would simply quit, leaving the 'field' open to the opposing side.

I thought that if we set aside all the issues with the Calalus artifacts temporarily, for the sake of discussion, sort of accepting the Bent arguments in their favor (except for the swampy land thing) we should have other supporting evidence. It is rather surprising (to me) that Klondike et al never considered that the Calalus artifacts, may well have been carried there from a distant place. The evidence in south central Mexico for example, of some kind of Roman (small R there) visitors could be the true location where the Calalus artifacts story really applies. There is even a mysterious war of the Toltecs against an un-named enemy, which one might argue, are none other than the Calalus colonists.

Against this we have nothing but a story of an underground Rhoda and library in the Superstitions, and a whole string of other tales attached including your own stone map solution and more recently the sunken ship wreck in the Salt river. To my view, when someone says something like that, there is a sunken ship wreck in a specific location, it should then be easy to prove the statement. I stated there is a Punic wreck off the coast of Honduras - and can prove it. There is a "Roman" (North African) wreck in the bay of Jars in Brazil, and can prove that assertion. There is probably a Roman wreck off of Beverly, Massachusetts, which however I can not prove but Roman coins have been washing ashore in a specific spot for many years, and there are several other ancient wrecks in the Americas - none so recent as the time period of Calalus however. All are 3rd century AD and older. One is considerably older, like over a thousand years. Likewise, when you said you had solved the Peralta stones, I expected you would prove it (or be able to) and you did, rather well in fact. That huge stone heart right at the very point where your interpretation of the stone maps ends, can not be mere coincidence.

So I expect that Klondike, having asserted there is an ancient wreck in the Salt river, should prove it. Or face the consequences of making outlandish statements without any proof. With Klondike retreating - it certainly looks like that Salt river shipwreck is most directly related to the mission church of NPs tale. :mrgreen:
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:11 pm

Roy,

It may be, considering the respect that Ben had for Ms. Williams, that he simply did not want to see her name and history posted in a forum such as this.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:28 pm

One other thing.......Can't imagine that anyone would think that South Africa would be the safest place to guard anything of such great historical significance.

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:32 pm

Machete gangs still mutilate/murder young children for body parts in the country. I believe around 300 children are murdered each year for this purpose alone. South Africa is far from being a safe place for anything.

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:53 pm

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Machete gangs still mutilate/murder young children for body parts in the country. I believe around 300 children are murdered each year for this purpose alone. South Africa is far from being a safe place for anything.

Joe Ribaudo


Amen to that Joe. Rapes are in some places reaching epidemic proportions, lawlessness is spreading (in direct relation to the gun-control laws?) and also agree that it is one of the worst possible places to store any kind of antiquities thinking they will be 'safe' there.

As to what could happen to such antiquities as Ben has stated were taken to S Africa, we need only look at what happened in other places where lawlessness became the normal state of affairs; in Afghanistan, giant ancient stone statues were blasted to rubble, in Syria, an ancient city, one of the last major city states to contend with Rome (Palmyra) is being destroyed simply because the radicals don't like it. In Iraq, antiquities were stolen, smashed, sold on the black market etc. South Africa was a relatively stable place at one time, but it is certainly not the case today.

It APPEARS that the library and other relics were sent to South Africa, soon after the promise to put them in custody of a museum "in the south" which in context, any one reading that statement would have assumed to mean in the southern part of the USA. However Ben, true to form with sociopaths, has been studying Joe and knows that Joe has many friends and contacts in many museums, and would probably have had little trouble in checking whether these artifacts were truly donated and quickly at that. So the obvious thing was to send these things to a place that Ben is fairly certain that Joe has no contacts - South Africa!

One has to wonder just how deep the interest must run for South Africans, to have a bunch of artifacts and/or tablets, from some place in Arizona in their museum. South Africa has its own history and it is quite interesting in itself. I do not doubt that there must be some level of curiosity, but what relevance would it have for the average South African, to be assigned to read Sims Ely's book on the Lost Dutchman mine? Or the Peralta stone maps?
I am guessing that South Africans might have some interest in that set of legends, on about the same level that average Americans may have some curiosity about the history of South Africa.

Also true to pattern for a sociopath, when his intended play things (us) would not be manipulated, he wants to quit and seek richer hunting grounds. The fact that he may well be a professor at a university, and a judge advocate, which does not mean that he may not be suffering from some mental issues. The delusional tale that was posted here for instance, could be seen by a university Dean as evidence that something is amiss.

Even funnier is that Ben could easily and quickly demolish all the suspicions about his mental state, by simply providing real names that could be checked for all the different IDs that have been using his computer. But perhaps they are not all living in the same body either, perhaps Ben is simply the conduit for them to communicate with the living? Perhaps he is 'channeling' them from another dimension or another world, the spirit world? There have been a few possible hints that this is the case, such as the statement of being "out of pocket" referring to Peter, hinting that spirit is not available at that time? Ben if you are reading this, it would help if you could clarify this point. I won't laugh if you are channeling spirits, that then use your computer, but it might be possible to then check out the dead persons history - as with that strange case of a "doctor" in South America performing successful surgeries etc while channeling the spirit of a dead German doctor.

As you said Joe - by far the best and most certain way to preserve a library (or any text) for the ages, is to publish it. This is the reason we have works from Plato, Aristotle, Pliny, etc - their works were published so survived even the destruction of their own civilizations. Ben hinted that by posting his statements on this forum, that amounts to "publishing" it, but that is another evasion - there are people who read the forum (and never post) which I only know about by having been contacted by different persons wanting to comment on things but not publicly. This small number of people that read this forum do not amount to publishing the library of Oz. We are still waiting on that extended version of Critias. Well not really, I am not waiting for Ben to post anything in the way of proof any more, but he could of course.
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby klondike » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:20 pm

gentlemen:

While this is only the light version perhaps it will make a point:

Hello Roy,

Just one final point. Anyone can play the dysfunctional games you and Joe play. Let`s see:

"Joe I think we have been talking with a person whom is mentally unstable. Possibly schizophrenic, sociopathic and a pathological liar. His tale just grows and grows, to include all sorts of mysteries great and small, while we poor dumb outsiders cannot hope to grasp these wondrous pieces of information".

All one has to do is replace a word here and a word there and what do we have:

I think I am talking to two persons whom are mentally unstable. Possibly schizophrenic, sociopathic, and pathological liars. Their instability just grows and grows, to include all sorts of mysteries such as posting as household pets and blaming their failures on others. They lack the basic intelligence and social skills to either deal in a meaningful dialogue or do basic research in a topic they claim interest in.

It is clear they are both unstable and unsuitable for human interaction of any sort and we can only hope they obtain proper medical attention.

It seems this is the only kind of interaction you folks can deal with, so while I am out of here I believe everytime you folks post crazy stuff, I will just re-post the last two posts.

Oh by the way Roy have you and Joe finished your treatise of whether or not Jacob was a cross-dresser. Seems Joe had put a lot of effort into that enterprise. Should be right up your alley.

Have a great life ladies.


Klondike

Now really is all of this necessary? Why persist in craziness?

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby Oroblanco » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:59 pm

klondike wrote:gentlemen:

While this is only the light version perhaps it will make a point:

<snip>

Now really is all of this necessary? Why persist in craziness?


Do you know how simple and easy it is, to ignore the repeated stuff, especially when it is not even re-worded?

You could dispel all of my suspicions on your mental state with some simple answers. Yet you positively refuse to provide any. Hmm what should I conclude from that? You must admit, you have not been entirely open and honest with us here. Deception and evasiveness will not build trust or lead to better understanding in our communications.

What led you to conclude there is an ancient ship wreck in the Salt river? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby klondike » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:21 am

gentlemen:

While this is only the light version perhaps it will make a point:

Hello Roy,

Just one final point. Anyone can play the dysfunctional games you and Joe play. Let`s see:

"Joe I think we have been talking with a person whom is mentally unstable. Possibly schizophrenic, sociopathic and a pathological liar. His tale just grows and grows, to include all sorts of mysteries great and small, while we poor dumb outsiders cannot hope to grasp these wondrous pieces of information".

All one has to do is replace a word here and a word there and what do we have:

I think I am talking to two persons whom are mentally unstable. Possibly schizophrenic, sociopathic, and pathological liars. Their instability just grows and grows, to include all sorts of mysteries such as posting as household pets and blaming their failures on others. They lack the basic intelligence and social skills to either deal in a meaningful dialogue or do basic research in a topic they claim interest in.

It is clear they are both unstable and unsuitable for human interaction of any sort and we can only hope they obtain proper medical attention.

It seems this is the only kind of interaction you folks can deal with, so while I am out of here I believe everytime you folks post crazy stuff, I will just re-post the last two posts.

Oh by the way Roy have you and Joe finished your treatise of whether or not Jacob was a cross-dresser. Seems Joe had put a lot of effort into that enterprise. Should be right up your alley.

Have a great life ladies.


Klondike

Now really is all of this necessary? Why persist in craziness?

Roy,

As far as the ship goes, figure it out. Still there. Oh I forgot:

You could dispel all of my suspicions on your mental state with some simple answers. Yet you positively refuse to provide any. Hmm what should I conclude from that? You must admit, you have not been entirely open and honest with us here. Deception and evasiveness will not build trust or lead to better understanding in our communications. Roy hopefully you will get some help. You see Roy you were asked simple questions but you refused to answer them. Deception and evasiveness will not build trust. :D

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Re: Yellow Jackets

Postby klondike » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:39 am

Schizophrenia: What You Need to Know
Schizophrenia is a serious disorder which affects how a person thinks, feels and acts. Someone with schizophrenia may have difficulty distinguishing between what is real and what is imaginary; may be unresponsive or withdrawn; and may have difficulty expressing normal emotions in social situations.
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Similar to some other genetically-related illnesses, schizophrenia appears when the body undergoes hormonal and physical changes, like those that occur during puberty in the teen and young adult years.
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If you or a loved one experience several of these symptoms for more than two weeks, seek help immediately.
What are the symptoms of schizophrenia?

A medical or mental health professional may use the following terms when discussing the symptoms of schizophrenia.
Positive symptoms are disturbances that are “added” to the person’s personality.
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Social withdrawal
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ANTIPSYCHOTIC MEDICATION

The new generation of antipsychotic medications help people with schizophrenia to live fulfilling lives. They help to reduce the biochemical imbalances that cause schizophrenia and decrease the likelihood of relapse. Like all medications, however, anti-psychotic medications should be taken only under the supervision of a mental health professional.
There are two major types of antipsychotic medication:
Conventional antipsychotics effectively control the “positive”symptoms such as hallucinations, delusions, and confusion of schizophrenia.
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Side effects are common with antipsychotic drugs. They range from mild side effects such as dry mouth, blurred vision, constipation, drowsiness and dizziness which usually disappear after a few weeks to more serious side effects such as trouble with muscle control, pacing, tremors and facial ticks. The newer generation of drugs have fewer side effects. However, it is important to talk with your mental health professional before making any changes in medication since many side effects can be controlled.

Good luck Roy and stay safe.