Yellow Jackets

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Cubfan64
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Cubfan64 »

zentull wrote:Around noon I needed to find a bathroom and stopped at this little hole in the wall bookstore in a strip mall, which looked like the only promising spot around. On my way through the shop back to my truck I saw a copy of Corbins "Dutchmans Gold" and remembered how mine was in pretty bad shape. I grabbed it and paid 3 bucks which I thought was a pretty good deal. I opened it up in the truck and it was signed by Helen.........
That's pretty cool :)

I've had fun going into the same kind of hole in the wall used bookstores around here as well as Illinois and Wisconsin when I travel for work and to visit family. I've come across a few "dutchman" books at very cheap prices - I imagine the prices get higher generally the close one gets to Arizona :).
klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

I remember one day dad and I were visiting family in Rhodesia, and we found ourselves in a little out of the way bookstore and we came across Ely`s book that was printed by Eyre @ Spottiswoode in London.

Rhodesia was a beautiful, beautiful country.

Sometimes it is worth noting those mountains are known in many places, and I would suggest in many times.


Klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by zentull »

Hope everyones having a Merry Christmas. Kids got me up at 3 AM.............Then asked me if they could could go ride their new bikes outside!

Works been busier than normal, but should see a slowdown and fall baseball is done(coached 2 teams this fall) so should be free to actually sit at the computer without nodding off by New Years!
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

Hello Everyone,

Have to say the New Year brought a lot of good chear.

Auburn won the national championship. Sad to report that team will be pretty much gone by next season. Guess we will just have to buy another one. :lol:

Imagine a lot of Superstition gold will be spent on another championship.

Georgia Tech suffered a tough year but next year will be better. Paul Johnson and Al Groh are two of the best coaches in college ball and will get them back to where they belong.

What was it Coronado said while standing on what would become Coronado Mesa? "A life is but a maze, where you come out makes all the difference in the world" Good thing he did not find Circlestone. With the maps he had leading to Oz, he would have made it all the way home.

Sometimes a maze is but a gift, one has to back up and ask what is the essence of what one is looking at. A gift? A starburst leading to Calalus and beyound? That obviously is too simple for the modern mind.


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zentull
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by zentull »

Want to mention now that things slowed down it was nice touchng base with a number of folks recently. I missed those bits of Dutch hunting talk. With another season of baseball done and the workload lightened, it will be nice to catch up on things through the summer. Will be making some trips up to Crown King working on those new lines going in, but got to put my ATV training in before I go.

Amazing.... I get paid to ride an ATV in the woods! Gotta love my job!
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
Somehiker
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Somehiker »

Heh Wayne and Randy:
Did you see them??????

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... aboob.html

Not all the nutcases live in AJ :lol:
Cracks me up.....

Best:Wayne
Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

Just before the first plane goes out of sight at the top of the frame, you can see it quite clearly.

Take care,

Joe
Somehiker
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Somehiker »

Yes indeedy,Joe,I had noticed that.The glare of the Landing Lights and the position of the cameraman ahead of the aircraft made it difficult to see either the wings,or the wingtip nav lights until the plane was almost overhead.The lights are necessary,not for seeing thru the dust but for visual separation from other aircraft and also for the final approach controllers in the tower.These two were probably the last ones to make it into Sky Harbour until after the dust storm.
BTW: Randy just posted on FB that they were getting hit again today.

Best:Wayne
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Somehiker »

Don't believe I would enjoy stumblin around in the Sups in a storm like that.
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djui5
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by djui5 »

I would.

UFO's coming out of a haboob? :lol: :lol: :lol:

That storm last night was quite bad, the wind and dust were crazy. I could barely see on the 60 driving home. I thought it would be a good time to make a fb post :lol:
Randy Wright
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by djui5 »

klondike wrote: Rhodesia was a beautiful, beautiful country.

Klondike
When?

http://www.cwporter.com/rhodesia.html
Randy Wright
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klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

Hello Randy,

Rhodesia was a beautiful county a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. I only visited a few times. A real shame what has happened.

Klondike is in the field, and not available for a few months. Sorry to hear about Larry Webb. Sure he was a fine man. A really interesting person.

Fascinating posts on Travis. Seems he had some real talent. That kind of work is beyond me for sure. My dad was quite good at it though. Not sure if you are familiar with the carvings on Stone Mountain, Georgia. My grandfather worked years on that monument with many, many others. The likeness of General Lee is remarkable.

Ben
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by djui5 »

Ben, who is Larry Webb? I musta missed something. Yes, the stone maps thread has become quite interesting for sure.
Randy Wright
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klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

Hello Randy,

Larry was a dutch hunter and more. I really enjoyed our conversations.

He understood, as klondike indicated, that the stone maps are multi-dimensional and take you to different locations in the range, and in the immediate area. Believe his primary area of interest was Maliapi.

Ben
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Somehiker »

klondike wrote:Hello Randy,

Larry was a dutch hunter and more. I really enjoyed our conversations.

He understood, as klondike indicated, that the stone maps are multi-dimensional and take you to different locations in the range, and in the immediate area. Believe his primary area of interest was Maliapi.

Ben
"He understood, as klondike indicated

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klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

Somehiker,

Does your solution to the Stone Maps suggest that others are wrong? Or does it show that there are a number of solutions, all valid and correct. The answer is the later. And none of them will lead you to the end of the trail. The end of the trail in the Superstitions is gone.

Enjoy your gift.

Ben
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Oroblanco
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Oroblanco »

Ben wrote
Somehiker,

Does your solution to the Stone Maps suggest that others are wrong? Or does it show that there are a number of solutions, all valid and correct. The answer is the later. And none of them will lead you to the end of the trail. The end of the trail in the Superstitions is gone.

Enjoy your gift.

Ben
I realize this was addressed to Somehiker and I have no intention of claimjumping his reply as he is certainly capable of answering, just was curious, from your statements Ben, how can you be sure that Somehiker's solution to the stone maps is not the correct one and only correct one? Only one solution could be the correct one, and would result in finding whatever lies at the end of the rainbow - all other seemingly successful solutions which however fail to produce results, are faulty and thus wrong in spite of appearing to work. Thank you in advance,
Roy
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Oroblanco
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Oroblanco »

PS Sorry for the off-topic post just put up, really it belongs in a thread on the stone maps.
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
klondike
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

Roy,

The post by Starman pretty much answers your questions.

The specific illusion of the maps is that the were created by the same folks. They were not. A lot of work has been done in the Superstitions and elsewhere to help that illusion. Trails, signs, etc., all created with a purpose.

Of course Somehiker`s solution is correct. Most are. :D To understand this you need to understand the Trail Maps tapped into a Trail system not just a trail. The witch map was created to lead one on a merry chase. Pretty much has.

If you are interested in the trail of trails spend time in the Fish Creek area. There are still legitimate clues there that no one has been able to find.

Now that Oz is gone, we really have no interest in the range. Enjoy the various trails.

Goodbye Roy,

Ben

Just as an aside Martin was exactly who he said he was. Damn waste.


Arizona Hiker,

Don Shade wrote a book titled Esperanza. On the cover is the statement, "This is an anthology of the travels of man through the Valley of Illusions". The history of the Superstitions is a Valley of Illusions. The real question is why?

One illusion on top of another until even asking a question is impossible because the question is imbetted with assumptions that themselves are illusions. That is what lies at the heart of your question. An illusion.

Jacob Waltzer was the dutchman. He came to America from South Africa. His descendants still live there. His journey to Arizona was the adventure of a meloncholy man who lost the only woman he ever loved. In part he came to Arizona to protect and preserve. He also came to America to make amends for his inability to save his wife.

That is the truth. You and many others have been spun like tops and placed in a house of mirrors. Your illusions were created by some of the most honorable individuals to ever set foot in those mountains. The truth is in a small museum in South Africa.

Their work is not limited to the Superstitions but covers a significant amount of history in the Southwest.

Shade was an honorable man. He told the truth. He also created illusions. At least they were his own.

Martin Waltzer
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Oroblanco »

Ben wrote
Roy,

The post by Starman pretty much answers your questions.

The specific illusion of the maps is that the were created by the same folks. They were not. A lot of work has been done in the Superstitions and elsewhere to help that illusion. Trails, signs, etc., all created with a purpose.

Of course Somehiker`s solution is correct. Most are. :D To understand this you need to understand the Trail Maps tapped into a Trail system not just a trail. The witch map was created to lead one on a merry chase. Pretty much has.

If you are interested in the trail of trails spend time in the Fish Creek area. There are still legitimate clues there that no one has been able to find.

Now that Oz is gone, we really have no interest in the range. Enjoy the various trails.

Goodbye Roy,

Ben
I beg to differ, and my apologies to the moderators for again going off-topic; this is supposed to be "Yellow Jackets" and in the "campfire" friendly section of the forums, while the topic matter Ben has been posting really belongs in the Peralta stones area.

If Somehiker's solution does not lead to what would fit as a 'treasure' by some definition of the term, then it is not correct. You appear to have missed the point, no treasure trail can be 'correct' if it does not lead to treasure then it is just another trail.

You appear to be mistaken in thinking that I spend my time hiking the trails of the Superstitions trying to solve the Peralta stones, I do not and have never spent a moment of time in the Superstitions trying to solve the Peralta stones for I have never been convinced they are genuine. I am not 100% convinced they are false either, but edging pretty close to that with the new stones turning up carved by Travis Tumlinson, seems like too much to be coincidence to me.

Your version of Jacob Waltz (spelled Waltz, the same way he himself signed it) is at variance with known facts, and you have never provided much to substantiate your version. Just for the record.

Good luck and good hunting Ben and your associates, as well as to anyone reading our discussions, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. My apologies to our moderators once again for going off-topic, and suggest that these off-topic posts be moved to the correct section of the forum.
Roy ~ Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Oroblanco »

PS - forgot to add, a question; Ben have you ever hiked up Fish creek canyon? I get the distinct impression that you have not. It is not a route I would ever suggest to anyone, it is very difficult and even dangerous. There is indeed some trace of gold that you can pan out in the creek, but certainly nothing to get excited over - if it had been rich in gold, there would have been noticeable mining activity there long before now.

To anyone reading our discussion, I do NOT suggest you go hike up Fish creek canyon, it is a very pretty spot but hardly a good place for hiking. If you have a hankering for a broken leg, it is a superb place to get one. The masses of barren volcanic rock that makes up the canyon are not promising for finding a rich gold deposit either. There was even a rather odd fellow living up in there too, one that would be wise to be left alone as he has chased off hikers before. By Ben suggesting Fish Creek canyon I rather strongly suspect that he has never set foot in it, or he would not be suggesting it unless he wished me to be injured. You wouldn't wish that, would you Ben? 8O

I apologize again for getting so far off topic, just thought that recommendation to be very unwise advice and especially so for any newbies who may be reading our words. If you are seriously considering a hike up that canyon, be sure to take a GOOD look at it from the bridge before you try it. Photos and satellite imagery do NOT give you a realistic idea of how rough it truly is.

Oroblanco
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

Roy,

This is pointless.

Happy trails and may the stars keep you safe.

Ben
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by klondike »

And you are probably right.

Goblins and Orks inhabit the caves and tunnels of Coronado Mesa, and a few refugees from the movie, "Deliverance' are hiding out in Fish Creek Canyon. By all means avoid both areas.

With the Deliverance crew in there the least of your worry`s is getting injured. :D

Good to be out of here. Oz should have been destroyed 10 years ago.

Again happy trails Roy.
Cubfan64
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Cubfan64 »

Oz should have been destroyed 10 years ago.
Perhaps it should have been - That way I would never have heard about it and invested myself in it as much as I did.

In my opinion, every now and then in a lifetime a person has to make a choice to believe or not believe in something without ever seeing any proof. Not everything is black and white - in fact most things aren't.

I made my choice in this case several years ago and have dealt with the consequences on and off since then. Would I make the same choice if I had to do it over again? Probably, but that isn't saying much since I'm discovering more and more that I'm not exactly a typical or in many ways "normal" person.

I chose to believe that Oz is - or rather was - a real thing. I don't believe this was all a great social experiment, or "flight of fancy" from an imaginative mind or anything else like that, but if it was, I hope it was worth it.
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Re: Yellow Jackets

Post by Somehiker »

klondike wrote:Somehiker,

Does your solution to the Stone Maps suggest that others are wrong? Or does it show that there are a number of solutions, all valid and correct. The answer is the later. And none of them will lead you to the end of the trail. The end of the trail in the Superstitions is gone.

Enjoy your gift.

Ben
Ben:
I do not have a solution,let alone one comparable to others.So I cannot suggest that other solutions are wrong,or complete.I do occasionally express my views regarding what I see as unlikely or illogical assumptions....often with a dash of sarcasm for effect.
What I have found,so far,in my attempts to reconcile that which appears on the Stones with what can be found on the ground in and out of the mountains,only indicates to me that I have yet to connect the obvious with what was considered more valuable.More valuable by those who left their mark on one,but not the other.

If you can describe this "mark",which in a simplified version appears on one of the Stones,you will gain great credibility with me at least.I may even post a good quality photo of the "mark" and a "container" on which the mark is present as proof of your story.
Otherwise,save your "gone" claims for someone else.

Regards:SH.
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