Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining

Hello Randy,

Will do.


Hello Somehiker,

Enjoyed reading your comments regarding the stone maps. I am not really able right now to respond in the appropriate detail to you astute observations. Long flight.

I will however make a few limited observations.

I am not sure the latin heart is only a field guide. Ever wonder how a artifact made its way to the Superstitions when the latin recorded on it is appropriate for 900 A.D. Southern Europe/Middle East. Perhaps the latin on the artifact was copied from recordings in the
Superstitions that were written approximately 900A.D. in the Superstitions.

Also the latin on the heart uses such words that translate as a religious place, northwest, perhaps a religious place in the nw portion of the range.

Your point about the destination of the maps makes a lot of sense for four maps, but there are more. More maps that have never been seen in public. And not the silliness that some folks were trying to sell, it seems books or movies about.

Those other maps reside in a certain restaurant in Henderson, Nevada. They pick up where the trail maps leave off and taken as a whole package do led you to Oz.

The Stone Maps are in a certain way a time machine. Each map takes you further back in time and the understability of the maps become less unless one has a idea of where they are going.

N8P for example is nothing more or nothing less than a star sign. The maps are also intimately involved with the astrological observatory known as Circlestone.

Sorry if I did not respond directly to most of your excellent points. Dog is far more competant in these areas than I am. With your permission I will pass your observations on to him for a better response.

The Catholic Church has been involved with all of this for centuries as another more well, American Church. Eldorado had some rather astute observations on that bunch.

What needs protecting in the Superstitions? You raise an excellent point. From where I sit nothing. From where others sit I would say everything. If what they are is to have any meaning

There is a beautiful history in those mountains. A history as dad said goes beyound well it doesn`t matter.

Need some sleep.


Klondike

Klondike:
Interesting observations indeed.And I welcome as well any that Dog may make,should he be so inclined.

"Ever wonder how a artifact made its way to the Superstitions when the latin recorded on it is appropriate for 900 A.D. Southern Europe/Middle East."

I now believe that this artifact was to be left in a specified location within the Superstitions but due to unforeseen circumstances,the responsible parties were not able to do so.That the "vintage" latin inscribed in the damp clay of the heart was used by one who knew that there would be few who would be able to translate the words and numbers,if the artifact was discovered by someone untrained to do so.

"Also the latin on the heart uses such words that translate as a religious place, northwest, perhaps a religious place in the nw portion of the range."

According to my interpretation,the "Transeo Ecclesia" refers to a graded area that lies beyond a natural stone archway.This archway may have once supported a bell,used to summon the converts to worship.Such a bell may have served another purpose as well.
"Occasum Solis" is an orientation to the direction of the setting sun relative to the alignment of the guide itself.

"Your point about the destination of the maps makes a lot of sense for four maps, but there are more. More maps that have never been seen in public. And not the silliness that some folks were trying to sell, it seems books or movies about."

It would be only logical to conclude that the maps that we know are only part of a larger "set".It would have been necessary to follow other charts,perhaps of similar style and construct,in order to arrive at the place where this set was intended to be recovered.
Those maps may be available as well,to the public,but may have not been recognized as having a significant connection.Other than those excerpts and quotes cited by other posters,I have yet to purchase or read any of the books that exist,based on the subject.Other than one documentary,I have avoided the cinematic versions as well.
Therefore,any such silliness that I may exhibit is due entirely to my own efforts at observation,research and interpretation.

"Those other maps reside in a certain restaurant in Henderson, Nevada. They pick up where the trail maps leave off and taken as a whole package do led you to Oz."

My not having had the opportunity to view these "other maps" in Henderson,I cannot offer an opinion regarding them.I do however possess a map,dated 1972,that shows every known "house of ill repute" located in Nevada at the time of publication.

"The Stone Maps are in a certain way a time machine. Each map takes you further back in time and the understability of the maps become less unless one has a idea of where they are going."

Just as the 1972 "map" which I referred to above indicates the relative geographical position of various points of interest known to the mapmaker at the time ,so do the Stone Maps.The features carved on the maps are what he considered important and were expected to remain visible for the reasonably foreseeable future.They take one neither backwards nor forwards in time relative to the date that they were first sketched and penned.

"N8P for example is nothing more or nothing less than a star sign. The maps are also intimately involved with the astrological observatory known as Circlestone."

Celestial navigation would have been extremely hazardous in the terrain as well as unnecessary.The "N" and the "P" are visible references and the "8" is that selection,in latin,which must be understood and followed in order to traverse the terrain both safely and successfully.Circlestone,IMHO,is neither here nor there as a feature of this set of maps.
As such,it remains what it is and was,the ruins of a gathering place of both ceremony and sanctuary for those that made the Tonto Basin their home.

Again,this is only my opinion but I believe that the active participation of the Catholic church at this location ended just prior to the expulsion of the Jesuit order.That those who were privy to the information required to retrieve the maps perished before they could pass the knowledge along and as a result,what could have been accomplished wasn't.What they may have is therefore nothing more,or nothing less,than we. It is only they who may have a desire to conserve and protect what lies within.
That is why the Mexican miners who followed,found and worked only the mines and collected ore.

Regards:SH.

Hello Somehiker:

Perhaps the creators of the stone maps themselves didn`t really understand what it was they were doing.

Their lack of understanding would explain their faithful rendition of what they found. Their hope was to return the stones to those who could understand them.

What they faced was a daunting task. Some of the symbols and landmarks were understandable but the underlying system was not.

This is to be expected in that the map room contains symbols and expressions that span over 10,000 years. Even today only about 35% of what is there is understood. The other, or as we call it the other who really knows.

What is known is that an artifact that is written in ancient latin was uncovered in the Superstitions that relate to the time of Calalus. Language that would have been commen in daily usage to those folks.

I know the latin heart was copied from a section of the map room that was covered with inscriptions made by those people.

Perhaps we should simply agree to disagree as to the meaning of Transeo Ecclesia. What called the worshippers to Oz was the temple, that is Weaver`s Needle, and the sacred light that pointed to Oz.

I was not suggestion your interpretations are silly. My reference was to several stone maps I have seen in the public arena that suggest they are somehow related to events in the Superstitions.

I never thought of Eldorado`s restaurant as a cat house. I do know he seemed to always have a lot of pretty ladies around but I attributed that to his natural ability to do well in that area of life.

Perhaps the Stone Maps cannot really be defined as a time machine but they do take you back in time to the map room which is effect a time machine for the last 10,000 years.

Celestial Signs were very important to those people who used them to visit the superstitions. Hence the tie in to Circlestone. Circlestone was not constructed by the locals. Having said this Circlestone was used by generation after generation of locals for their own purposes which included gaining a basic understanding of its functions.

The area you speak of is well covered with symbols and signs that relate to the
Catholic Church. Interestingly enough there is a trail there that begins at Klondike Spring and makes its way over Mailaipai and finally ends on Coronado Mesa.

A trail marked by what my people refer to as Starbursts. Those symbols were carved over and removed a more ancient symbol that refers to a burst of energy from the crystals that underlies all of this.

Enjoyable dialogue. Have a good day, and may the light of Aletheia light your way.

Klondike

Hi Klondike:
I don't think that Eldorado's restaurant was one of the points of interest on my 1972 map.
If it had been,I may have stopped in for a steak dinner on my tour of Nevada.

Regards:SH.

Hello Somehiker,

Hope you enjoyed Nevada. Eldorado Canyon is a special place. Mr. Ely spent a lot of time there.

One final point about the Latin Heart. It is fundamentally different than the other pieces of the first puzzle. Why? It was copied from another section in the other. Lets just say it came from the Calalus library annex.

The maps as a whole take you on a tour that meanders from its current known end point up through the Maiiaipi area through the Fish Creek area, and finally wrapping around the Salt River and ending up on an ancient landing station on the Salt River to Coronado Mesa and finally to Eldorado Canyon and beyound.

Seems a local has been losing his mind in the Fish Creek area for a long time.


Regards,

Klondike

"Seems a local has been losing his mind in the Fish Creek area for a long time."
It's a crazy place for sure.Gold n Bones be there.
Trails too I bet.
Regards:SH.

Klondike - am I missing something? Who is "Mr K" that you have referred to? I've been having nasty computer problems at home as well as some personal issues that are taking up a great deal of my time, so it's quite possible I missed a post or two that were perhaps deleted or something?

Interesting discussion again!

Hello Paul,

I wouldn`t want to get him or his horse eaten, so I will leave this alone.

I did contact him and suggest the two of you connect.

The temple he stumbled on is not far from Circlestone and dates to approximately 850 A.D. Pretty rough area and not much showing above ground.

Not far from Klondike Springs.

Take Care,


Klondike

Ben,

"Perhaps we should simply agree to disagree as to the meaning of Transeo Ecclesia. What called the worshippers to Oz was the temple, that is Weaver`s Needle, and the sacred light that pointed to Oz."

The only ambiguity would be in "Transeo". "Ecclesia"seems simple enough. If the creators of the message meant something other than church, they would have used another word. For instance, if they had meant "temple" (Weaver's Needle?) as you seem to be suggesting, they would have written templum.

Neither the "Latin Heart" nor the "Bilbrey Crosses" are from ancient times. What they were, were fakes created to generate some income.......plain and simple.

Good luck with this interesting fairy tale.

Joe Ribaudo

Mr. Ribaudo,

As always good to hear from you.

Hope the family is doing well.

Transeo Ecclesia refers to Oz.

Weaver`s Needle was in reality only a gatekeeper. Still is.

Sad to hear that about the Latin Heart and Bilbrey Crosses. Real shame.

Particularly since they originated in Oz. Guess you can`t trust anyone these days.


Klondike

Ben,

Anyone who trusted Michael Bilbrey is worse than a fool.

Interesting how these important artifacts are always found by con-men. And then there are those who continue to promote those fakes, like our friend Jim, and of course you and your various identities.

Hard to believe anyone is still buying this stuff these days. With all these claims, one would think that one small piece of, verifiable, evidence would be offered. You have worked hard here on the LDM Forum to make someone......anyone a believer. I have no doubt you have a few disciples who will follow you to OZ.....There always are.

Thanks for the reply,

Joe Ribaudo

Hello Mr. Ribaudo,

Perhaps if you spent more time at the heart and less time calling folks liers and thieves your time in the Superstitions would have been far more rewarding.

The monuments you came across not only lined up to the holy but also had within them the two remaining stone maps that would have taken you to Oz.

The mine, high up on the east side of west boulder canyon, not only has the solution to the Ruth affair, but a few gold bars, and wall etchings that point to a chamber in Black Top.

If you will excuse me several of us have a little chore to take care of today in Coronado Mesa. Should be a bright day

I wish you nothing but the best.

What a waste.


Klondike

Ben,

Are we having a bad morning???

Don't believe I have called anyone a thief, but no sense in trying to inject any reality into your life at this late date. There is nothing in the mine on the east side of West Boulder, and no beam of light from my heart to OZ. No doubt, if you were there, you would whip out your dilithium crystal and the yellow brick road would magically appear.

I am flattered that you have been paying attention over the years to my posts and added some of my factual stories into your historical novel.....I assume a book is the end result of all this ground work.

As for the calling people liars thingie, I belive in calling a spade a spade. That little habit has been a major stumbling block for you and a few
other Internet boasters. I freely admit it would probably be better for me to ignore your foolishness, but you made it personal when you pulled me into your original scam.

You have more than enough head nodders still playing along with your game. You enjoy doing what you do, and I enjoy sticking pins in your pompous balloon. I would say, we have settled into a comfortable routine that alleviates the boring periods between serious posts here.

By all means.......continue.

Joe Ribaudo

Ben,

"The monuments you came across not only lined up to the holy but also had within them the two remaining stone maps that would have taken you to Oz."

I forgot to mention that I could never take that trip to Oz. Should have told you from the start, except it took a while for you to bring Oz into the picture/story. The problem is.......I am deathly allergic to flying monkeys. I'm sure you understand.

Joe Ribaudo

Once again,it seems,the discussion is backtracking the trail to something called "oz".
No one ever seems to be able to describe this "other" or even "oz" in layman's terms that someone,like me,unfamiliar with the codewords can understand.It seems to be a place where the present inhabitants have little regard for any opinions other than their own.That environment could explain why names such as "dog" as in "dogged,doggon or dog eat dog" are familiar.As a layman and not so well informed an outsider,I don't see where my limited experience can be of any value.That has become quite obvious.I would rather not follow this particular path,which evidently leads nowhere inviting.I will leave that to those that are more familiar with the topic and are apparently comfortable with the dissension that any participation brings.

Regards:SH.