CALALUS

Non LDM treaure hunting and Old West history.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Paul,

"That's a very interesting quotation from Bernice McGee - do you know what article that came from?"

The thing about these kinds of things in the Superstitions, is that people have been creating them in modern times. Many of those people you know personally. The other question that comes to mind is, who examined the markings besides them?

On another subject:

When bringing Atlantis into a topic, you might want to consider the era it was said to exist in. That would be while man was just coming out of the caves he was living in. Societies of the time consisted of small groups/families of hunter gatherers. It would be around 3,000 years before any real societies would gather together and live in formal communities.

Not only that, but Atlantis was not the strongest power of its, supposed, time. They were said to have been defeated by the Athenians, who did not even exist at that time. Yes, I know the debate, they were just called something else back then.

No one wrote about Atlantis before Plato, and that's a fact.

I am at the shop, so small errors are possible in what I have just written. The overall conclusions are still valid, concerning era.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Hello Paul,

Believe it appeared in Old West Magazine. The Title of the article is, "The other world of the Superstitions".

Seems you can find it also on Novice`s site.

Posted for Klondike recently. Good to have him back in the states for a while.

Have a good day.

B.
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Ben,

Thanks to Garry, those things are easily available:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... itions.pdf

Take care,

Joe
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

Hola amigos,
<Joe wrote>
The thing about these kinds of things in the Superstitions, is that people have been creating them in modern times. Many of those people you know personally. The other question that comes to mind is, who examined the markings besides them?
We may be seeing a typical leap from A-to-Alien here too, to use a term to describe the habit of some UFO researchers to jump from an unknown light in the sky to it must be an alien mothership; the mysterious hieroglyphs seen by Mrs McGee could be markings left by Hohokam Indians, a very real, very extinct and vanished civilization of the region. It is a bit of a leap to conclude that markings on stone found in the Superstitions must be related to Calalus or Atlantis. It is also quite possible the markings were made by people in modern times, not with any evil intent just boredom.

<Joe also wrote>
On another subject:

When bringing Atlantis into a topic, you might want to consider the era it was said to exist in. That would be while man was just coming out of the caves he was living in. Societies of the time consisted of small groups/families of hunter gatherers. It would be around 3,000 years before any real societies would gather together and live in formal communities.

Not only that, but Atlantis was not the strongest power of its, supposed, time. They were said to have been defeated by the Athenians, who did not even exist at that time. Yes, I know the debate, they were just called something else back then.

No one wrote about Atlantis before Plato, and that's a fact.
I still haven't seen any good reason why Atlantis was tied in with the subject here. I do have to respectfully disagree on a couple of statements posted, first point being the statement that Atlantis dates to ~3000 years before any real societies would gather and live in formal communities, we need only look at Jericho (famous in OT) which dates to 11,000 years ago, right in the time frame Plato put Atlantis to see examples of an early civilization.

It is highly debatable whether Atlantis was the strongest power of its time; Plato said it was "megon" (greater than) Asia, Europe and Africa combined, which seems to suggest that it was more powerful than those various peoples of the time. This particular statement has been mistranslated by many into a slightly ridiculous statement making the island of Atlantis into some super-continent larger than those three continents combined, by which same mistranslation we should be calling Alexander the Great, Alex the Large. The fact that the armed forces of Atlantis were defeated by an alliance headed by "Athenians" does not mean that the alliance was in fact more powerful, there are numerous examples throughout history in which a weaker power defeated a more powerful opponent.

As to that statement about no one writing about Atlantis before Plato, that depends on how you define "writing about Atlantis" for Atlas, the Titan founder of the kingdom is well attested to in older sources, the name is found in Herodotus over a century before Plato, and the great flood of Noah/Gilgamesh may well be telling the same story of Atlantis as seen through different witnesses.

All that said, I can't see any good evidence that ties Atlantis in to the Superstitions, much less to Calalus. One might start to wonder what far-ranging subject will be next to be connected? :?

I hope that nothing I have said has caused anyone offense, no offense was intended and we can disagree and remain friends.
Roy
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roy,

"I do have to respectfully disagree on a couple of statements posted, first point being the statement that Atlantis dates to ~3000 years before any real societies would gather and live in formal communities, we need only look at Jericho (famous in OT) which dates to 11,000 years ago, right in the time frame Plato put Atlantis to see examples of an early civilization."

I may be wrong, but I believe there is still some debate about exactly what existed at Jericho in that time frame. As I recall, it was the water that brought the people together in that spot.

While they have dated remains to that era, I don't recall that early dating for buildings.
13-1400 B.C. seems to ring a bell in my memory.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind revisiting the information I have at home. Have to dig through some boxs/books, but I need to stretch this old mind a bit.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roy,

"I still haven't seen any good reason why Atlantis was tied in with the subject here."

Actually Atlantis was eased into the conversation a number of years ago by Ben......in an oblique manner.
Without using the name, he hinted at Orichalcum and I did the connection to Atlantis. It kind of went on from there, with Oz being thrown into the mix......eventually.

Although a fierce non-believer, I enjoy debating the Atlantis fable. Don't see how that debate can harm our friendship, but would rather drop it than let that happen.

Hope all is well,

Joe
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

Joe - a difference of opinion on something as intangible as Atlantis is hardly going to have any effect on our friendship. My own "belief" in its existence has never been ardent, and started out as a non-believer so can't exactly start throwing stones at anyone when I held the exact same view for some time. It would make for a pretty dull discussion if we were in agreement on every subject anyway.

On the Atlantis subject, I noticed that Wiki has a reference to a settlement having existed in Athens circa the 11th millenium BC, but the link is dead (besides being apparently in modern Greek, which would be very difficult for me). Have you run into any such article?

On Calalus, Childress mentioned in passing that one of the swords allegedly had a depiction of a "brontosaurus" on it - I have only seen B & W photos of the artifacts but do not recall ever seeing any kind of depiction that would match that. Have you ever seen anything that would fit that? If it is true, such a depiction would hardly help the case for the relics being genuine, IMHO.

The story spun by Klondike, Ben and their associates is quite difficult to accept and I don't consider myself overly skeptical. I am still unsure what is meant by "Oz" too; are we saying it is the same as in the movie the Wizard of Oz, complete with an 'emerald city'? The whole package needs some substantial evidence before folks are going to start believing it. I agree that it makes a great story, but perhaps more fitted for the 'fiction' section of the bookstores?

I hope all is well with you, and wish you a very pleasant evening.
Roy
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roy,

Just to be clear, I don't disbelieve the existence of Atlantis altogether, just the era that Plato wrote for it.
Move Atlantis to around 4000 B.C., plunk it down on the coast of Spain, and I believe a very good case
could be made for a place that would physically match the story.

On the other hand, I still don't believe many of the details of the story. The story of Atlantis, IMHO, is nothing more than a continuation of the ideal society that Plato wrote about in "The Republic". It may very well have some truth in a few of the descriptions of the island, mixed in with a liberal dose of fiction.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Gentlemen,

Did you ever consider the discussion about the Gold was never about where the Matchbox ore came from? Mr. Johnson had a copy of a previous assay. We had access to the analysis Glover commissioned before he even saw it. We know what the deposit is. Always have. It is epithermal. :wink:

Who knows perhaps a picture of where the matchbox ore came from is in well the Bible. :D

The discussion was just to see if the presentation of overwhelming evidence would allow you folks to see what was always right in front of you. It seems you were not able to see the way.

Oz is a religious and educational site that exists in the Superstitions. What is left of it is under Coronado Mesa. The site points the way to Calalus and beyound. The beyond is what you should worry about.

The other deposit of crystals? It exists in Yellowstone.

Proof? You had all the proof in the world as to the nature of the matchbox ore and what did you do. Simply put you closed your eyes.

And really Mr. Johnson is correct again you should believe what you will. The foundation of our beliefs is what each of us should understand. Because everything depends on it.

Respectfully, and happy trails.


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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

Klondike wrote
Did you ever consider the discussion about the Gold was never about where the Matchbox ore came from?
I thought the topic here was Calalus; if memory serves, it was you that tied in Waltz's gold to it.

Klondike also wrote
We know what the deposit is. Always have. It is epithermal.
I respectfully disagree, however you are welcome to call it what ever you prefer. Hydrothermal I think we could agree on.

Klondike also wrote
The discussion was just to see if the presentation of overwhelming evidence would allow you folks to see what was always right in front of you. It seems you were not able to see the way.

Oz is a religious and educational site that exists in the Superstitions. What is left of it is under Coronado Mesa. The site points the way to Calalus and beyound. The beyond is what you should worry about.
So it was just a little game for you. I suspect that what is under Coronado Mesa is a lot of rock. I haven't seen a bit of evidence there is anything else there.

Klondike also wrote
Proof? You had all the proof in the world as to the nature of the matchbox ore and what did you do. Simply put you closed your eyes.

And really Mr. Johnson is correct again you should believe what you will. The foundation of our beliefs is what each of us should understand. Because everything depends on it.
I can see that we have extremely different ideas as to what constitutes "all the proof in the world". From where I am viewing, it rather looks like you have to shut your eyes in order to "see" what it is that you wish us to believe.

Good luck Klondike and everyone I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Hello Roy,

If you can`t see that the matchbox ore came from an epithermal deposit, given everything that has been presented, how can one expect you to see that Oz and Calalus exist? Simply put it is a bridge too far.

You are free to believe whatever you will regarding the matchbox ore. From looking at your point it seems to be you are saying the look of the ore suggests to you it is not epithermal? Is that correct? Any other points, at least to me, have been put in the wastebin by Mr. Johnson`s presentation.

His points are geologically sound and thought provoking. On the other hand there is no other presentation on the subject that is even understandable. To speak of ore deposition in terms of quartz crystallization temperatures is simply nonsense.

Jacob`s Gold, Calalus and Oz have always been tied together in a tapastry that is only understandable from the whole. Jacob is right in the middle of all of this he has always been. He kept his secrets well and well he should. Bark and Ely knew him as a refined man who on his death bed received a young couple, who traveled all the way from New York to pay their respects.

This has never been a game. It is far, far more serious than you can imagine. A test yes.

Yes there is a lot of rock under Coronado Mesa. There are also other things that will open to those who can see. Perhaps the best time to see those things is in the evening, when the stars will show the way.

You will have to believe in Oz before you can see it. And once you see the way you will be astounded that it could so easily be missed. The library and plates made from an alloy of copper and gold are still there. They wait in the stillness to reveal a history that is simply put beautiful and tragic, all at the same time.

Roy, the proof is in the heart listen to it.

Good luck to you in your researches.


Respectfully,

B
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

Hola amigos,

Klondike <B. posting for Klondike here> wrote
If you can`t see that the matchbox ore came from an epithermal deposit, given everything that has been presented, how can one expect you to see that Oz and Calalus exist? Simply put it is a bridge too far.
No one has made any evidence public that indicates the matchbox ore is epithermal; the published opinion we do have in public indicates it is not epithermal. If Oz and Calalus exist, they would exist regardless if anyone should call Waltz's ore epithermal or cumulonimbus. Your take on this is strange to say the least. More in a moment.

Klondike <B> also wrote
Jacob`s Gold, Calalus and Oz have always been tied together in a tapastry that is only understandable from the whole. Jacob is right in the middle of all of this he has always been. He kept his secrets well and well he should. Bark and Ely knew him as a refined man who on his death bed received a young couple, who traveled all the way from New York to pay their respects.
The lack of any direct ties between Waltz and Calalus, Oz etc does not help support the contention that he was "in the middle" of them. Can you cite any mention of Oz or Calalus by Waltz? Bark and Ely never met Waltz as far as I can determine, so it is a matter of conjecture as to how they imagined Waltz. What young couple visit to Waltz on his deathbed are you referring to? Thank you in advance.

Klondike <B> also wrote
Yes there is a lot of rock under Coronado Mesa. There are also other things that will open to those who can see. Perhaps the best time to see those things is in the evening, when the stars will show the way.
Having no expertise in star navigation (though I do have a grasp of the mechanics involved) if it is necessary to locate some hidden entrance via the stars, I for one will likely never locate it.

Klondike <B> also wrote
You will have to believe in Oz before you can see it. And once you see the way you will be astounded that it could so easily be missed. The library and plates made from an alloy of copper and gold are still there. They wait in the stillness to reveal a history that is simply put beautiful and tragic, all at the same time.

Roy, the proof is in the heart listen to it.
The first statement in this set of quotes is the most telling. We are often told a similar statement by those who claim they are able to speak with the dead. The trouble with such a requirement is that if an actual site (as in 3 dimensions, made of solid objects) does exist, then anyone capable of viewing it should be able to see it whether they have any belief in it or not. I could give a somewhat similar example here;

When I first read of the rediscovery of the legendary lost city of Ubar, I for one did not believe it. On seeing the actual photos of the ruins, my opinion had to change - clearly something was there, the next question being whether they had correctly identified those ruins as Ubar or not. The scholars involved did a 'bangup' job on that issue as well.

My point here is that even though I did not believe that Ubar ever existed, the fact that it was an actual place made that disbelief untenable. I was able to see the photos without any belief in the myth, in fact held a positive disbelief, at least until the evidence showed otherwise. Even the rather poetic story that Ubar was so evil the desert "swallowed it" held some truth, for it was buried in desert sands.

If Calalus and/or Oz demand you to believe in them before you can see them, the implication is that they do not exist in our dimension; rather you must "imagine" them in your mind's eye or "in the heart" without being able to actually touch foundation stones or pottery shards. Thank you for clarifying this point, and I remain respectfully unconvinced that either Oz or Calalus exist in the Superstitions.

Good luck and good hunting B (and everyone) I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Ben,

Without going back through all the "Oz" posts, I am trying to remember if Oz was just a place for the safekeeping of sacred things, or if a wonderful, advanced, society once inhabited that location as well? Say something along the lines of Calalus and/or Atlantis.

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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Hello Roy,

Roy tells us:

"No one has made any evidence public that indicates the matchbox ore is epithermal; the published opinion we do have in public indicates it is not epithermal".

What opinion would that be? And can you tell us what that opinion is based on?

Respectfully,


B
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

klondike wrote:Hello Roy,

Roy tells us:

"No one has made any evidence public that indicates the matchbox ore is epithermal; the published opinion we do have in public indicates it is not epithermal".

What opinion would that be? And can you tell us what that opinion is based on?

Respectfully,


B
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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Hello Roy,

You see that is the problem. There simply is no published opinion that the ore is well anything other than epithermal. These opinions are based on a series of reasoned arguments that suggest it is epithermal. Those arguments are based on observations, geologically sound inferences, and statements, which you are free to dismiss, of folks who seem to know what they are talking about.

On the other hand you have only vague assertions about the nature of the quartz in the deposit being mesothermal with no reasoned arguments suggesting the ore is mesothermal.

What is fascinating is your continued acceptance of a position that is based on nothing while demanding a level of proof that you, cannot even begin to bring to the table to support your belief.

If you cannot see this there is nothing that further discussion on Oz, Calalus, or the Dutchman`s Gold can accomplish. Seeing something is no more than understanding a totality of facts and letting that which is reveal itself. Those facts are there. It only requires a bit of imagination to put those facts together.


Respectfully,


B
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

B wrote <responding for Klondike>
Hello Roy,

You see that is the problem. There simply is no published opinion that the ore is well anything other than epithermal. These opinions are based on a series of reasoned arguments that suggest it is epithermal. Those arguments are based on observations, geologically sound inferences, and statements, which you are free to dismiss, of folks who seem to know what they are talking about.

On the other hand you have only vague assertions about the nature of the quartz in the deposit being mesothermal with no reasoned arguments suggesting the ore is mesothermal.

What is fascinating is your continued acceptance of a position that is based on nothing while demanding a level of proof that you, cannot even begin to bring to the table to support your belief.

If you cannot see this there is nothing that further discussion on Oz, Calalus, or the Dutchman`s Gold can accomplish. Seeing something is no more than understanding a totality of facts and letting that which is reveal itself. Those facts are there. It only requires a bit of imagination to put those facts together.
Greetings Ben, <if I may be so informal>
Where you see a problem, I see only sound, logical caution in accepting stories at face value or un-documented claims. Starting rumors of Tellurides in Dutchman ore for instance, without providing one jot of document evidence to support the story, would lead to unfounded rumors to circulate and is rather irresponsible on your part. Similarly the insistence that Dutchman ore is epithermal, and your refusal to acknowledge that the only published opinion is found in Dr Glover's book, and that states it is mesothermal. I don't need to present MY theory on it, for although I have a fair amount of experience in prospecting for precious metals, no amount of my theory is going to carry much weight, any more than yours. You don't need to take my word on it. Dr Glover provided opinions of professionals, and they call it Mesothermal. For some reason this is a real sticking point for you, yet you refuse to post any professional opinion to refute Dr Glover's.

I don't say that there can not be tellurides in Dutchman ore, just that I do not see it, nor have I seen any published mention of any tellurides identified in it. Until such can be proven, documented, I remain unconvinced there are any tellurides present.

I also provided you with a logical explanation for Dutchman ore being mesothermal or hypothermal, which you choose to ignore. Playing games like you just did here, pretending we have not already gone over this subject in some detail, does not help to convince me. In fact quite the opposite. I now suspect that you are trying to mislead people to your selected area (Coronado Mesa) and mislead as to what the Dutchman ore truly is, as well as the geologic implications that follow.

What I find remarkable is your expectation that I ought to simply ignore the published evidence and accept your stories on faith, when we have never even met. I can't imagine what possible difference it should make in whether Calalus/Oz should exist, if I should call Waltz's ore hypothermal or hypoallergenic, for I have yet to see a single shred of evidence to tie the Dutchman's lost mine to Calalus. In fact I have yet to see a single shred of evidence that Calalus is located in Arizona for that matter.

If you do not wish to further discuss Calalus/Oz, out of my reluctance to agree that Waltz's ore is anything but epithermal (it is not) that is alright with me and I won't be offended. Your statements which tell us that one must believe in it before you can see it, indicate to me that the place you describe is not in the same plane of existence as we are. If that is the case, I will not be able to sense your Calalus/Oz as I have no special psychic powers nor a strong imagination. Coronado Mesa is a very scenic place I will grant, but not one that I feel any particular attraction to return to, and have seen nothing to indicate the presence of any deposit of gold or silver there in a commercial quantity.

Good luck and good hunting Ben and everyone reading this, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Hello Roy,

There is nothing to really add.

Nothing is nothing. Just like the nothing of mesothermal quartz. Just a zero.

Good luck on your book. A shame. A real shame.

Respectfully,

B
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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Gentlemen,

When this dialogue began it was fairly obvious that Joe was the bad cop and Roy was the good cop. As this became clear I was really interested to see if a productive dialogue would occure. Needless to say that was not the case.

Like Klondike I too am out of here. From what I can see the neighborhood is changing and little positive can be accomplished.

I really wish Klondike would stay the hell out of the states but he comes back continually for a reason that even you could understand. Remember the comments about the crystal deposit in the Superstitions? That is why Calalus came into existence and why the ancients were so interested in the little piece of paradise you call the Superstitions.

Are you familiar with the notion of super volcanic eruptions? The crystal deposit in the Superstitions that was mined out and used to destroy half the planet was not unique. Another was discovered in Yellowstone by the ancients. This deposit was hidden but references to it are made in the library of Oz. An expedition was made to Yellowstone and the records of that expediton are somewhere in Eldorado Canyon.

Klondike and a team of Geologists from South Africa and elsewhere have been looking for that deposit for years. They have discovered that in at least one other super eruption that a similar crystal deposit was the trigger mechanism for the massive eruption.

I for one pray they find it. You should too.


Happy Trails,


B
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Ben,

Think about it.....The first question that comes to mind is: If you already have all of the answers, why are you here?

What has changed in the "neighborhood", is that people with some knowledge of the subject have started questioning your "facts". You have left the building many times over the years, and the only reasons you would possibly return are pure boredom, a place to display your superior knowledge, or you are seeking the information you pretend to have.

One thing I have left out, is floating a fictional history in preparation for a book you are writing. For me, that seems the most logical explanation.

Look forward to many more posts from Ben, etc.......

Take care,

Joe
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

Hola amigos,

This is another very long reply, I must beg your indulgence; thank you in advance.

B wrote <posting for Klondike here>
When this dialogue began it was fairly obvious that Joe was the bad cop and Roy was the good cop. As this became clear I was really interested to see if a productive dialogue would occure. Needless to say that was not the case.
Your perception is incorrect here, there are no "cops" in our discussion; what is in common between Joe and myself are a desire to get to the truth of the matter. Joe may be a bit more blunt in his approach, but we seek the same thing. If the only way the dialogue could be "productive" for you would be for us to simply accept and believe every and any statement made, then you are likely to find few "productive" dialogues in the general public.

B also wrote
Like Klondike I too am out of here. From what I can see the neighborhood is changing and little positive can be accomplished.
I wish you well in your future endeavors, though I have to disagree on your perception of the 'neighborhood' or as to what positive results might be obtainable in this forum.

B also wrote
I really wish Klondike would stay the hell out of the states but he comes back continually for a reason that even you could understand. Remember the comments about the crystal deposit in the Superstitions? That is why Calalus came into existence and why the ancients were so interested in the little piece of paradise you call the Superstitions.
Can you provide any evidence to support your contention here, that Calalus came into existence due to this mystery crystal deposit? The inscriptions found on the Calalus artifacts tell quite a different story amigo, I do not have Hovey's book handy but as I recall, the story had no mention of any crystals.

B also wrote
Are you familiar with the notion of super volcanic eruptions? The crystal deposit in the Superstitions that was mined out and used to destroy half the planet was not unique. Another was discovered in Yellowstone by the ancients. This deposit was hidden but references to it are made in the library of Oz. An expedition was made to Yellowstone and the records of that expediton are somewhere in Eldorado Canyon.

Klondike and a team of Geologists from South Africa and elsewhere have been looking for that deposit for years. They have discovered that in at least one other super eruption that a similar crystal deposit was the trigger mechanism for the massive eruption.

I for one pray they find it. You should too.
Destroy half the planet by use of crystals? Crystal deposits in Yellowstone? In general, I usually have good wishes for treasure hunters and prospectors, however in this case the whole thing sounds rather like science fiction. I have seen a couple of very interesting programs done on the possibility of Yellowstone erupting, and the implications are that perhaps half the world might be ruined by it. However there was no mention of any kind of crystals having any particular effect in a super-volcano eruption. Your statements sound almost like a good sci-fi movie script is in the works?

Joe R wrote
One thing I have left out, is floating a fictional history in preparation for a book you are writing. For me, that seems the most logical explanation.
It appears that you have correctly deduced what has been afoot here. If it is to be produced in book form, I would certainly buy it; as history I can't afford the basic precepts as laid down here.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Roy
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Re: CALALUS

Post by klondike »

Hello Gentlemen,

As always you are free to believe whatever it is you wish to believe. Having said that it is importent to realize there were boundaries to this discussion that were in place before it started. For example the discussion of the crystal deposit and its ramifications was iniatiated with the following:

"A discussion of Starman and Joe`s monuments will offer no proof, it will only point to a way. Such a discussion will lead to the central mystery of Oz and the realization that the crystal deposit I have discussed is only one of two discovered by the ancients. The second deposit is for a lack of better word lost.

That deposit is incredibly dangerous.

If you would like to proceed with such a discussion please advise.

Respectfully",

Next we have Roy`s response:

'If such a discussion will lead to the central mystery as you term it, then by all means let us proceed. You mention the 'crystal deposit' and describe it as incredibly dangerous; by dangerous do you mean that it is radioactive? Thank you in advance",

Next Roy you perhaps need to be reminded that the search for the truth you seek is not exactly as you present it.

This response was posted as a response in this thread to outlandish attacks made by Mr. Ribaudo. Do you as his friend believe that accusing folks of drug use, dementia, and other things is the way to find the truth? Are you a fellow traveler in this type of thinking?


Hello Mr. Ribaudo,

Well let`s see little boys, drug use, and dementia. Not sure what all of this has to do with Calalus but it is what it is.

Wonder why your mind goes to those places. The Superstitions always struck me as being far more beautiful and interesting. I guess each to their own. And who am I to criticize you for circling those topics.

I really don`t believe anyone should over estimate their importance. After all we are only here a short time anyway.

History will judge each of us according to our merits.

One day the Superstitions will be celebrated for far more that simply murder, mayhem, and the butchery that folks seem to drift to.

Anyway have a good life and may the stars always shine brightly on your trail.

Take Care,

Klondike

When given the opportunity Klondike, myself, Late49er, and Eldorado have made effort after effort to keep the conversations professional and in good taste.

You and Joe on the other hand have simply played good cop and bad cop. Both of you ridicule what you can`t understand and break the boundaries of good taste and the boundaries of a dialogue that were established going in.

If you can`t handle a conversation why have it?

One can excuse Joe because he simply does not know better, you on the other hand. Well I know Klondike and I both expected more.

As far as the neighborhood goes I noticed that a new member has appeared along with an old member that has returned. Be sure to buy some more books and keep it simple.

Now that the problem with Yellowstone is on the table, there is really nothing else to say. Sleep well at night, ignorance is not such a bad thing.

At least one positive thing was accomplished you gentlemen are clear that more than 3 folks were involved in the settlement in Arizona.

Respectfully and happy trails.

B
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Ben,

[This response was posted as a response in this thread to outlandish attacks made by Mr. Ribaudo. Do you as his friend believe that accusing folks of drug use, dementia, and other things is the way to find the truth? Are you a fellow traveler in this type of thinking?]


[Hello Mr. Ribaudo,

Well let`s see little boys, drug use, and dementia. Not sure what all of this has to do with Calalus but it is what it is.

Wonder why your mind goes to those places. The Superstitions always struck me as being far more beautiful and interesting. I guess each to their own. And who am I to criticize you for circling those topics.]
____________________________________

I assume your comments are taken, out of context, from this earlier post:


[Frustration is hardly the word for the limited feelings you evoke. Amusement would be much closer to any quasi-emotion. Just as your posts are a diversion from what seems a mundane life of boredom, which seems closer to the definition of frustration, my replies are a feeble attempt to keep the amusement factor as high as possible.

This is just my personal opinion after observing your erratic behavior over the years. That being said, my assessment of you could be wrong.......but I doubt it. There is just too much evidence to base my conclusions on.

I do hope that your body of work here is simply a result of what I have written above. It would be sad indeed if it was a result of long term drug use or some kind of clinical dementia.

I do wish you the best,

Joe Ribaudo]
_________________________________

In comparing your body of work here to Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland", the unfounded rumors of drug use and child-like behaviour seemed a natural addition to the conversation. You may have noticed the :wink:.......probably not. I believe dementia and acting like a child are often closely linked.

Rather than an "attack", my comments were simply concern that your elaboration's (being kind here) are not the result of anything clinical. I imagine blindbowman's condition, ten or fifteen years ago, would have matched what you display here......very closely. That would be sheer brilliance with a healthy dose of vivid imagination.

I am not offended by any of the things you have said about me. I would hope you could say the same thing.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Oroblanco »

Klondike wrote
Hello Gentlemen,

As always you are free to believe whatever it is you wish to believe. Having said that it is importent to realize there were boundaries to this discussion that were in place before it started. For example the discussion of the crystal deposit and its ramifications was iniatiated with the following:

"A discussion of Starman and Joe`s monuments will offer no proof, it will only point to a way. Such a discussion will lead to the central mystery of Oz and the realization that the crystal deposit I have discussed is only one of two discovered by the ancients. The second deposit is for a lack of better word lost.

That deposit is incredibly dangerous.

If you would like to proceed with such a discussion please advise.

Respectfully",

Next we have Roy`s response:

'If such a discussion will lead to the central mystery as you term it, then by all means let us proceed. You mention the 'crystal deposit' and describe it as incredibly dangerous; by dangerous do you mean that it is radioactive? Thank you in advance",

Next Roy you perhaps need to be reminded that the search for the truth you seek is not exactly as you present it.
A search for truth is not so much a matter of presenting it, as in finding it. I always try to keep an open mind, but not quite so open that my brain (tiny as it is) should fall out. :mrgreen:

I still have no idea what you mean by saying the lost crystal deposit is extremely dangerous? How can crystals (mineral) be dangerous? I presume you are not going to say they are "Dilythium crystals" ala Star Trek. Thank you in advance,

Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
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Re: CALALUS

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Paul,

I just received some information today, and it looks like Jack and Bernice pointed the way into the Superstition Mountains for the Calalus migration theories.

It seems probable that the Bent's believed in the authenticity of the Tucson Artifacts, and had that idea bolstered by the few professional people, like Covey, who had an axe to grind with that kind of early Europian migration.

From the light skimming I have done, I think both you and Garry will be interested.

See you soon,

Joe
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