today's find.

Non LDM treaure hunting and Old West history.
pippinwhitepaws
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today's find.

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

here is a story posted a couple of hours ago...
too bad we don't live in greece.

updated 8:31 a.m. MT, Fri., Aug. 29, 2008
ATHENS, Greece - A priceless gold wreath has been unearthed in an ancient city in northern Greece, buried with human bones in a large copper vase that workers initially took for a land mine.

The University of Thessaloniki said in a statement Friday that the "astonishing" discovery was made during excavations this week in the ruins of ancient Aigai. The city was the first capital of ancient Macedonia where King Philip II — father of Alexander the Great — was assassinated.

The find is highly unusual as the rich artifacts appear to have been removed from a grave during ancient times and, for reasons that remain unclear, reburied in the city's marketplace near a shrine of the goddess Eukleia.

The "impressively large" copper vessel contained a cylindrical golden jar with a lid, with the gold wreath and the bones inside.

"The young workman who saw it was astounded and shouted 'land mine!'" the university statement said.

Excavator Chryssoula Saatsoglou-Paliadeli told The Associated Press the find probably dates to some time in the 4th century B.C., during which Philip and Alexander reigned.

"Archaeologists must explain why such a group ... was found outside the extensive royal cemetery," the university statement said. "(They must also) work out why the bones of the unknown — but not insignificant — person were hidden in the city's most public and sacred area."

During the 4th century B.C., burials outside organized cemeteries were very uncommon.

In a royal cemetery at Vergina, just west of Aigai, Greek archaeologists discovered a wealth of gold and silver treasure in 1977. One of the monumental graves is generally accepted to have belonged to Philip II.

The sprawling remains of a large building with banquet halls and ornate mosaics at Aigai — some 320 miles north of Athens — has been identified as Philip's palace
Cubfan64
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Re: today's find.

Post by Cubfan64 »

pippinwhitepaws wrote:here is a story posted a couple of hours ago...
too bad we don't live in greece.

updated 8:31 a.m. MT, Fri., Aug. 29, 2008
ATHENS, Greece - A priceless gold wreath has been unearthed in an ancient city in northern Greece, buried with human bones in a large copper vase that workers initially took for a land mine.

The University of Thessaloniki said in a statement Friday that the "astonishing" discovery was made during excavations this week in the ruins of ancient Aigai. The city was the first capital of ancient Macedonia where King Philip II — father of Alexander the Great — was assassinated.

The find is highly unusual as the rich artifacts appear to have been removed from a grave during ancient times and, for reasons that remain unclear, reburied in the city's marketplace near a shrine of the goddess Eukleia.

The "impressively large" copper vessel contained a cylindrical golden jar with a lid, with the gold wreath and the bones inside.

"The young workman who saw it was astounded and shouted 'land mine!'" the university statement said.

Excavator Chryssoula Saatsoglou-Paliadeli told The Associated Press the find probably dates to some time in the 4th century B.C., during which Philip and Alexander reigned.

"Archaeologists must explain why such a group ... was found outside the extensive royal cemetery," the university statement said. "(They must also) work out why the bones of the unknown — but not insignificant — person were hidden in the city's most public and sacred area."

During the 4th century B.C., burials outside organized cemeteries were very uncommon.

In a royal cemetery at Vergina, just west of Aigai, Greek archaeologists discovered a wealth of gold and silver treasure in 1977. One of the monumental graves is generally accepted to have belonged to Philip II.

The sprawling remains of a large building with banquet halls and ornate mosaics at Aigai — some 320 miles north of Athens — has been identified as Philip's palace
I love reading those kinds of stories - surprisingly there are finds like that made public more often than one would think worldwide, just imagine how many of them AREN'T made public :) Gives one hope :)
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Post by zentull »

Back in the late eighties I was helping on a house demolition in the historic section downtown(The owner was knocking down the guest house and putting in a garage) and I noticed a bunch of glass shining after I had swung the tractors bucket into the side wall. I got a guy to go check it out and there were like 20 big jars full of coins that were in the wall. The owners Dad never trusted banks and hid his miney all over the place.

We tore a paneled wall to open up the original brick wall out of another in that area a year later and found a bunch of stocks and papers and 2 bottles of beer that dated into the 40s.

When I was roofing, we always found stuff left in attics from the 20s and 30s when we replaced the wood. I always found the old newspapers fascinating reading at lunch.
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

i have a 400 year old Japanese sword that was found in the rafters of an old garage/carriage house, torn down over by the hospital... when they built that road through the historic district...
many workers used to place things in walls when they constructed a home...match books, bottles...newspapers.

i was down on grand avenue a few weeks ago...my have things changed.

i have spent hours pouring over prehistoric occupation of the south west...
the monumental works like the irrigation canals suggest a tightly knit community with massive labor forces...
trade routes to mesoamerica, the finding of copper bells at many sites as far north as chaco canyon...
similarities in art, belief systems...ect...all lead to the fact that there was once a diverse civilization in the Americas...
and the fact that the mesoamericans DID mine and work metals indicates to me that they may have mined areas along these trade routes...
certainly a miner of any nationality will jump at the chance to find a new lode..
how ever..until evidence is unearthed...it is all speculation...
pippinwhitepaws
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the opposite side

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

updated 2:32 p.m. MT, Sun., Sept. 14, 2008
MIAMI - Three years ago, an elderly Italian man pulled his van into a South Florida park to sell some rare, 2,500-year-old emeralds plundered from a South American tomb. But Ugo Bagnato, an archaeologist, didn't know his potential customer was a federal agent.

Bagnato flashed the green gems, which were as large as dominoes, and explained to the immigration and customs agent that he had bribed South American authorities and used fake paperwork to smuggle the highly illegal goods into the United States.

Authorities discovered Bagnato had a cache of more than 400 artifacts from Peru and Colombia, all predating Columbus' arrival in the Americas: burial shrouds, jewelry, terra cotta pots and other treasures were wedged in boxes in his van and kept in a storage unit.

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Bagnato was arrested, charged with the sale and receipt of stolen goods, and in 2006, pleaded guilty. He was later deported.

Smuggling is on the rise
It was one of the largest antiquities smuggling cases ever prosecuted in the U.S., but federal Immigrations and Customs Enforcement authorities say smuggling of rare artifacts from around the globe into the United States is on the rise — up from 63 cases in fiscal year 2006 to 134 this fiscal year, which ends in two weeks.

Such looting robs countries not only of treasures, but of their heritage — and archaeologists say it also destroys valuable research opportunities.

"A nation's culture is not for sale. These are not souvenirs to be displayed at someone's house," said Anthony Mangione, a special agent in charge of the Miami office of the agency also known as ICE.

But that's exactly what's happening, as artifacts from around the world are surreptitiously carried into the United States and sold by dealers, on eBay or, in the case of Ugo Bagnato, out of the back of a van.

There are several recent cases:

On Monday, federal authorities will repatriate some 1,000 items, including a rare temple marker worth $100,000, to Iraq. On June 7, 2001, ICE agents in New York received information from the Art Loss Register that a Sumerian Foundation Cone, buried under a Babylonian temple, was being sold by auction at Christie's New York. ICE New York agents seized the artifact from Christie's and discovered that it, and several other items in the U.S., had been stolen from the Baghdad Museum and other locations at the end of the first Gulf War.
In May, four tons of fossils from Argentina — including 200-million-year-old dinosaur eggs, egg shell fragments, petrified pine cones and fossilized prehistoric crabs — were seized by federal agents in Tucson, Ariz. Authorities said a corporation based in Argentina had brought the fossils into the country. No arrests have been made, but the fossils were repatriated.
In February, an Army pilot was arrested and charged with stealing 370 pre-dynastic artifacts from the Ma'adi Museum near Cairo, Egypt, and selling them to an art dealer in Texas for $20,000. The artifacts, dating to 3000 B.C. and earlier, were originally discovered during excavations in Egypt in the 1920s and 1930s. The pilot, Edward George Johnson, pleaded guilty in June and is awaiting sentencing.
"This whole market is driven by the demand for all kinds of antiquities, and the demand is constantly increasing," explained Robert Sharer, curator of the Americas section of the University of Pennsylvania Museum in Philadelphia.
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Post by lazarus »

Pip,

you know how I detest smuggling and the like...
There are folks who would not hesitate to plunder the LDM, given the chance. Some folks have no respect for the rule of law, nor the historical implications of such a find. All they care about is getting rich. No ethical fiber.

Remember my comment about not wanting any contact with treasure merchants? I was once approached by a guy who wanted to sell me a mummified foot from Egypt. What the f**k?

I also spent one harrowed summer attempting to return a human skull, stolen by grave robbers in Peru. While doing research, I found the skull in a pile of trash. Again... what the f**k? What kind of a scumbag digs up a human skull, and drags it thousands of miles across international borders, just to dump it on top of a pile of trash? People are sick!

Laz
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

i returned a skull taken from the salt mine in verde valley. was that a nightmare...lost my job in jerome over it..."that was OUR display"...
an anthropologist...one of the premier southwestern types...the role model for southwest arceology, had unearthed this man in the salt mine..almost perfect mummification..so he flays the body...sends portions across the nation, gives the skull to the historical society in jerome...

some sick mf's out there laz...no respect for anything or anyone.
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Post by lazarus »

Zen,
I like your story.

When I was in New York State, I was invited to research the physical history of the village of Delevan. I spent weeks going through attics and basements, and talking with the old folk. I uncovered a plethora of historic material, which was all donated to the Delevan library collection and the Arcade Hysterical Society. I was paid for my services with cookies and tea, provided by the ladies of the Hysterical Society.

It turns out the building I was living in had once been a roller rink, and also held pro boxing matches, including a championship match featuring John Sullivan. It was also the place where the very first motor home was invented and constructed. The vehicle toured the northeast, making the rounds at state fairs, etc.

The area was part of the Eerie Canal system, and was a major link in the underground railway. Stryker wrote episodes of the Lone Ranger from his house on Main Street, and Mark Twain ran the local newspaper. (not all during the same period, of course.)

Just down the street a few miles is Lime lake. Lime lake used to be an ice farm. Ice was channeled into the ice house, where it was cut up with large hand saws (think tree saw) loaded into box cars, and shipped out west, where it ended up in places like the shop in downtown Phoenix that Julia Thomas operated. How about that! There's a connection!

Laz
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Post by lazarus »

PIp,

I concur.
Returning the skull was a nightmare. Sometimes doing the right thing is not so easy.

Laz
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todays find

Post by JIM HAMRICK »

In the past I have made my thoughts known about collecting of Hohokam artifacts. My time frame spans from when many people in the valley dug for artifacts to a major hospital selling digging plots to today where it is illegal to unearth artifacts.

If you could explore storage sheds in the valley you would be surprised at the thousands of artifacts found there (all collected when it was legal to do so). the migration to this state and the need for housing has destroyed many artifacts and pueblos. Not that many years ago there was a pit house village on New River but they have built homes there and I am sure there is nothing left. I mention this to illustrate that political subdivisions whether they are state, counties, or towns are to do an archaeological survey before issuing building permits. Lot people insist that the letter of the law is enforced as long as they are not bothered.

There are still many sites that have been covered by freeways where in a few hundred years they can be excavated and hopefully any secrets of the"ancient ones" can be uncovered.

I still have never seen any metal in any Hohokam sites.

jim hamrick
lazarus
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Post by lazarus »

Jim,
nor have I, seen any metal in Hohokam sites. However, I have found evidence of Hohokam at mine sites. There are old digs just east of the Max Delta mine at South Mountain. These digs were for gold, and are clearly marked with Hohokam glyphs. Anyone with an understanding of the park can locate these glyphs. It does require a little looking.

I cannot explain why the Hohokam would have been there, but they were.
Perhaps they settled in areas previously occupied by someone with basic metallurgic skills, but what was with the interest in the digs? Curiosity?

I can name off several similar sites, all mine locations featuring Hohokam glyphs. These sites are spread out over a pretty large region.

I have no problem with collecting pottery shards. It's a broken dish, for cryin' out loud. Toss an old tire out there, and if it sits long enough, it becomes an artifact.

I think we all know where to draw our own line on this. No-one has ever shown much interest in the stuff along the canals. Incidental shards are a way of life around the valley. Those who knowingly destroy or pilfer an archaeological site know when they have gone too far. We just have to use good judgment.

Laz
pippinwhitepaws
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treasure hunting gone bad

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

Dead Tucson ranch gunman sought 'loot'



Friday, September 26, 2008

TUCSON (AP) -- Investigators are sure that a 26-year-old gunman found dead at a rundown ranch outside Tucson with two older men he is believed to have killed was there looking for "loot," a Pima County sheriff's official said Thursday.

"We're convinced now that the 26-year-old was where he intended to be," said Sheriff's Bureau Chief Rick Kastigar. Detectives found handwritten directions to the ranch and an aerial Internet picture of the location in the gunman's possession, he said.

Also on the dead man's body was a "to-do" list that mentioned going to a location "with the loot and getting cash for it," Kastigar said.

The gunman, who wore a bulletproof vest, had several weapons with him when he was found dead on Monday. They included an assault rifle with several hundred rounds of ammunition, a shotgun and a pistol. Four homemade pipe bombs wrapped with shrapnel were found in his rental vehicle, Kastigar said.

"This guy was honestly armed to the teeth," he said. "He intended to be where he was, and he had anticipated" that he would be encountering someone, the chief said.

Items found in the rented vehicle that the gunman had driven from California while towing a trailer included a rope ladder and a portable winch, he said.

The gunman's identity was not released, but investigators were in his hometown of Fountain Valley, Calif. on Thursday trying to learn more about why the man had come to Arizona, Kastigar said. Fountain Valley is southeast of Los Angeles in Orange County.

"We are dealing with the family of the 26-year-old," he said. "We have a clearer picture now as to what took place."

There was no sign that the gunman was shot, and an autopsy revealed that there was no physical trauma, he added. Authorities are waiting for toxicology results to determine what caused the man's death.

But a rifle found near the body of one of the other two men who had been shot may have been fired, Kastigar said.

A pistol also lay near that man, identified as George McCumber, 60, a night watchman at the ranch. There was no indication that the third man, identified as ranch owner William Blankinship, 72, had any weapons, Kastigar said.

But detectives remained stumped over what the gunman may have been looking for.

"That's the puzzle, because knowing the two victims that were shot, they lived a meager means, and there wasn't anything of value out there other than parts of vehicles" strewn among other junk around the five-acre property, Kastigar said.

The sheriff's official said Blankinship had reported to the sheriff's department "a number of threats."
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Wow...

Post by ScottB217 »

I can't wait to hear the rest of this story... I wonder what information this guy had that made him come looking for something so valuable he thought he would need "Hollywood Bank Robber" gear to retrieve it? Just goes to show that none of us can be too careful in today's society... especially in some of the areas we want to hunt and explore.

My personal opinion is that everyone venturing into the uknown should have some form of legal personal protection that they are properly trained and certified with. I was a range safety officer and firearms instructor for many years, as well as unarmed defensive tactics. Should anyone every want or feel they need some advice or help in selecting personal protection options or firearms information, please look me up. I would hate to hear of anyone who is an upright citizen with a healthy curiosity and sense of adventure meeting someone up to no good or with ill intentions and not being prepared.

Be safe everyone.
On the trail...
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

it is a wonder someone would drive from la to "treasure hunt" and end up killing two people and dying at the scene...strange world we live in.

on an upnote..i think...here is a treasure ship going back to the sea.

posted: 3 HOURS 48 MINUTES AGOcomments: 10filed under: Science News, World NewsPrintShareText SizeAAA(Sept. 29) -- Archaeologists from around the world are racing the clock to save treasures found at the site of a 500-year-old Portuguese shipwreck found off the coast of Namibia, according to media reports.
A Rare FindWerner Menges, AFP4 photos A team of archaeologists is racing to salvage the remnants of a ship that sank off the coast of Namibia in 1500 before the seawalls that protect it are no longer maintained. Found by geologists searching for diamonds in April, the ship was filled with treasures, including more than 2,300 gold coins.(Note: Please disable your pop-up blocker)

The trading ship was discovered in April by a state company mining for diamonds. Artificial seawalls that the company built with sand have protected the site, but as of Oct. 10, the ship's remains will be left to the elements because of the high cost of maintaining the seawalls.
Bronze cannons, several tons of copper, ivory tusks and a fortune in gold coins are among the items that have been uncovered at the site, reports AFP.
"Over 2,300 gold coins weighing some 21 kilograms (46 pounds) and 1.5 kilograms of silver coins were found -- worth over 100 million dollars," Francisco Alves, a Lisbon-based maritime archaeologist, told the BBC.
Alves said the ship's contents suggest it was bound for India or somewhere in Asia.
This is "the most exciting archaeological discovery on the African continent in the past 100 years," said Webber Ndoro, the rescue excavation's project manager.
pippinwhitepaws
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it is always sad to loose a pioneer

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

updated 22 minutes ago
MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. - Searchers found the wreckage of Steve Fossett's airplane in California's rugged Sierra Nevada just over a year after the millionaire adventurer vanished on a solo flight, and the craft appears to have hit the mountainside head-on, authorities said Thursday.

Most of the plane's fuselage disintegrated on impact, and the engine was found several hundred feet away at an elevation of 9,700 feet, authorities said.

"It was a hard-impact crash, and he would've died instantly," said Jeff Page, emergency management coordinator for Lyon County, Nev., who assisted the search.

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Crews conducting an aerial search late Wednesday spotted what turned out to be the wreckage in the Inyo National Forest near the town of Mammoth Lakes, Sheriff John Anderson said. They confirmed around 11 p.m. that the tail number found matched Fossett's single-engine Bellanca plane, he said.

Anderson said no human remains were found in the wreckage.

"It's quite often if you don't find remains within a few days, because of animals, you'll find nothing at all," Anderson said.

Teams led by the sheriff's department would continue the search for remains Thursday, while the National Transportation Safety Board was en route to probe the cause of the crash, he said.

Mark Rosenker, acting chairman of the NTSB, said the agency has reviewed photographs of the site and after a preliminary look, "it appears to be consistent with a nonsurvivable accident." He also said it was "indicative of a high-impact crash."

The NTSB would bring in a private contractor to help with recovery of the airplane, Rosenker said. "It will take weeks, perhaps months, to get a better understanding of what happened," he said.

Borrowed plane
Fossett, 63, disappeared on Sept. 3, 2007, after taking off in a plane he borrowed from a Nevada ranch owned by hotel magnate Barron Hilton. A judge declared Fossett legally dead in February following a search for the famed aviator that covered 20,000 square miles.



"The uncertainty surrounding my husband's death over this past year has created a very difficult situation for me," Fossett's widow, Peggy Fossett, said in a statement. "I hope now to be able to bring to closure a very painful chapter in my life. I prefer to think about Steve's life rather than his death and celebrate his many extraordinary accomplishments."

Searchers began combing the rugged terrain on Wednesday after a hiker found identification documents belonging to Fossett earlier in the week. The wreckage was found about a quarter-mile from where hiker Preston Morrow made his discovery Monday.

The IDs provided the first possible clue about Fossett's whereabouts since he disappeared Sept. 3, 2007, after taking off from a Nevada ranch owned by hotel magnate Barron Hilton.

"I remember the day he crashed, there were large thunderheads over the peaks around us," Mono County Undersheriff Ralph Obenberger said, gesturing to the mountains flanking Mammoth Lakes.

Aviators had previously flown over Mammoth Lakes, about 90 miles south of the ranch, in the search for Fossett, but it had not been considered a likely place to find the plane.

The most intense searching was concentrated north of the town, given what searchers knew about sightings of Fossett's plane, his plans for when he had intended to return and the amount of fuel he had in the plane.

A judge declared Fossett legally dead in February following a search for the famed aviator that covered 20,000 square miles.
pippinwhitepaws
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wow

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

updated 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
FAIRFIELD, Maine - The sale price of a historic Colt Walker pistol has broken a record for all guns made by the company, an auctioneer in Maine said.

An anonymous bidder paid $920,000 on Tuesday for the .44-caliber revolver, said officials from the James D. Julia auction house. It was made for U.S. marshals in the 1840s and its previous owner said he never fired it.

The price included a buyer's fee of $120,000 charged by the auctioneer.

Julia was also the auctioneer for the previous Colt record of $480,000.

The gun was an heirloom passed down from John McBride's great-great-uncle. The 80-year-old from Montana said some of the money will be used to buy land in that state.
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Post by ScottB217 »

Boy... I'd like to just see that gun much less own it. What a piece of history.
On the trail...
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

i would love to handle that weapon for about three minutes.
i have been blessed to see some fairly old weapons, but this one is special.
provenance to the date of purchase.

i happened to be in chicago when there was a display of european firearms, including cannon.
dirks with wheel locks attached, swords with matchlocks.

who the heck thought up the idea you should wind up a firearm?
fantastic engravings on those weapons.
museum of science and industry is wonderful.
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Post by ScottB217 »

Yes... glad we don't go into conflict with wind up guns any more...lol Sounds like a great display, I'll have to keep my eye out for when they are available again. Thanks.
On the trail...
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

even an experienced person can make mistakes.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/news/story ... y_no=27893
CLD
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land mine

Post by CLD »

Unfortunately if it HAD been found HERE and mistaken for a land mine...Sheriff Joe would have blown it up and ruined a beautiful artifact. See, there is jealousy between one ancient artifact and another. ha ha 8O
Shhh...........Ok now bite me!
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

i find it interesting that not one of the treasure sites, or any of the many seflf proclaimed experts have commented on the arrest of over twenty five artifact hunters in the four corners area...and two of the arrested have committed suicide...

seems my opinion of grave robbing and artifact theft is shared by the federal judicial system.

so scroll down....http://moablive.com/news.asp
Joe Ribaudo
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Strange Things.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

It's probably a conspiracy. 8O

Joe Ribaudo
pippinwhitepaws
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Re: Strange Things.......

Post by pippinwhitepaws »

Joe Ribaudo wrote:It's probably a conspiracy. 8O

Joe Ribaudo
typical bs response...

of course it is a conspiracy, of thieves and the self righteous justification of robbing the graves and history of the ancestors.
twenty government organizations involved in the sting...twenty five people arrested...two kill themselves in shame...
an all you have is snide...
Joe Ribaudo
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Slow Learner......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

pip,

"of course it is a conspiracy, of thieves and the self righteous justification of robbing the graves and history of the ancestors."

Since you were talking about the vast silence from.....everyone, you might assume I was talking about the silent members of the different forums.

Since you are unable to make that connection, I will join you in your condemnation of those involved. It might be, that no one (myself included) read or heard about the event. You continue to make giant leaps of twisted logic to further your own anti-everyone agenda.

The fact that you were uninformed about the geology of the Bradshaw Mountains did not stop you from making, what you considered, an informed comment about a common event for that area. That has been your problem everywhere you post. Lack of knowledge and poor research skills are what keep others from welcoming you into their conversations.

You may very well be a genius, but you constantly project........educated idiot. That medical procedure is looking more and more like the answer to your problems. :lol:

Joe Ribaudo
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