guard towers?

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don
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guard towers?

Post by don »

just wondering if any of the members have ever seen the so called "guard towers or watch towers" on bluff springs mt mentioned in the "killer mountains"? surely they couldnt be fabrications? :lol:
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Bushrat
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Post by Bushrat »

In the early 1980's I stumbled upon two horseshoe shaped rock walls ....one located on the northeast ridge and one located on the northwest ridge of Bluff springs. They were well protected and looked like a breastworks (of sorts).

I sent photos to Tom Kollenborn at the SMHS. (I did not know anyone in those days). Tom politely returned a letter indicating they were probably old Indian camps. He still has those photos. The negatives were destroyed when my house burned in 1989. Curse of the Dutchman?

Hope this helps.....

Tom
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Post by djui5 »

How tall are they? I got some shots of Bluff Springs from the North yesterday. Was my first time seeing it from that angle, and seeing that "hidden valley" was quite exciting :)

I don't recall seeing any walls, but I didn't get that close either.
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Post by Bushrat »

Randy:
The walls were 3 to 4 feet high if I remember right. You cannot see them from the canyons below. Sounds like you were up there at the top of the northern bearing ravine. You would have to be up walking the side ridges to see the walls. I don't think they were the same thing Magill was referring to. His description seemed more like square rock houses.

That is a great area to explore. Lots of water and MILLIONS of mosquitos.

T
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Post by djui5 »

Wow, I'll have to go back up for a looksee. I was on Black Top mountain when I got the photos.

Good thing I got mosquito repellent 8O
Randy Wright
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Post by Somehiker »

Happy Haloween to all. :twisted:
Just finished handing out the last of the treats to this years ghosts and goblin
goblins.One even looked a lot like old Jacob,but I thought that he was just another homeless person, till he gave me this map to some old mine or something.Last I seen of the old geezer,he was fading into the fog astride a swayback grey mule,muttering "cummon Heidi old girl,get us back to camp before sunup,cus I got diggin to do." :wink:"Cackle."
Hikearizona.com has an excellent collection of member photos of Bluff Springs Mt. and Blacktop Mesa---might see something there of interest.
Lots of Dutchhunter goodies as well.
SH
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Post by djui5 »

Last I seen of the old geezer,he was fading into the fog astride a swayback grey mule,muttering "cummon Heidi old girl,get us back to camp before sunup,cus I got diggin to do." :wink:"Cackle."
SH

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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old mule

Post by Heidi II »

Somehiker make funny joke.

Waltz`s mule was a good mule.

Took care of old man.

Evil orks not get him.

Barranca Grande.


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Post by Somehiker »

Maybe Orks too busy chipping stone hearts and horseheads.Not see Jake and Heidi go by. 8O ---SH.
don
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Post by don »

so i guess the "guard tower" thing was a bit of an exaggeration at the least? but didnt sidney brinkerhoff confirm their existence? maybe he just took others word for it?
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Post by zentull »

I have seen 2 of the 4. They are a bit small, but it is hard to figure what they were meant for exactly. Combined with the Cave/Tunnel and the filled pit it is all intriguing. Never have found the markings that Magill reported. While Magill may have speculated the meaning of a number of things, those things are there, not just book filler.

It is unfortunate that Gene is having such a rough time, he would be a good source on information coming first hand from Magill. Check the archives, he did post concerning the Magill expedition.
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Bluff Springs Momuments

Post by Roger »

Here's an item that may tie into the Guard Towers being discussed.

I stayed in Phoenix after the 2006 LD Rendezvous last month and spent a number of hours delving into Greg Davis' LDM collections. He has a book titled "Q.E.D" that is a collection of documents from QED Inc that did considerable research and field work on the LDM back in the late 1950's. Benjamin J. Butler was the collector/writer of most of the documents.

Here is a quote from out of that bood called Project "D" and dated 2/19/1957:

"The following data was told to me by John de Graffeinried on this date, and is to be corroberated as soon as possible.

""There are four monuments, that form a 10 ft quare, located on the N.E. corner of Bluff Spring Mountain. They are about 3 ft high and about a yard in diameter at the bottom or base. From the stone fence, go up the trail at the north end of the mtn. At the saddle, turn left towards the east rim of the mtn. On a little flat area there, are these four monuments. They are well made and are weathered somewhat. Probably been there a long time. John Spangler knows about them, too. Frank Frie found them and told me about them, but he only said there was one. There are four of them, though. Frank said he only saw one.""

These monuments could be related to the Guard Towers or they could have fallen down some and be mistaken for a Guard Tower. Don't know the answer, but wanted to share this research tidbit.

Roger
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Not The Same

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

Magill described the "guardhouses" as "surrounding the tunnel at some distance". That does not match up with them forming "a 10 ft (s)quare...".

If they were indeed "guardhouses", they were not built to protect the "mine", but the tunnel. If it's all true, I should think the tunnel was used for storage or shelter.

Anyone been in the "tunnel"?

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Post by djui5 »

tunnel? If anyone has directions I'll go check it out 8O
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Directions?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

First, a word of caution. A number of people have taken some nasty spills exploring Bluff Spring Mountain. It can be deceptive.

There are a few places on the north end, where you can work your way to the top. The smart thing to do, would be to go with someone else. Better yet, two someone elses.

If you start at the northwest end of the mountain, around N33 27.391' and W111 21.903', you will have a fairly steep climb which will become easier quickly. At that point, bear to the westside and you will be heading into the area of Magills Camp close to the top, and with a pretty straight drop to the west. 8O

It is unlikely you will find anything of importance. Like Black Top Mesa, Bluff Spring Mountain has been searched from piller to post over the years.

It is very hard to find Magill's "mine", if it's even possible anymore. I don't know if the climb I have described is still viable, but some of the others here are probably more familiar with how things look now. It has been many years since I made that climb.

Hope you find the trip worthwhile. The views alone are worth the effort.

You should know, that Magill and his team swore they heard footsteps around their camp at night.......not kidding. :lol:

Take care,

Joe
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Re: Directions?

Post by djui5 »

Randy,

First, a word of caution. A number of people have taken some nasty spills exploring Bluff Spring Mountain. It can be deceptive.
I've heard that about a few places in that range :lol: :lol:

You should know, that Magill and his team swore they heard footsteps around their camp at night.......not kidding. :lol:

Take care,

Joe


Wouldn't shock me the least bit. Last time I went hiking I heard someone/something just up the hill from where I was. This was very near the Bull Pass/East Boulder Canyon/Black Mountain trail junctions.

Thanks for the tips Joe, they are greatly appreciated. I won't be hauling my white a$$ up that mountain alone. At a minimum, I'll have my buddy Glock with me :lol:
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Post by Bushrat »

Randy,

Joe is correct. I camped with a good friend in that north Bluff Springs area
back in the early 1980's; during the night we heard footsteps near our tent on a dark spring night. (Early in the day we heard someone chipping rock above the ravine). I laid there with S&W in hand. Next morning footprints we noted going north to south past one side of the tent. Mountain lions do not wear soled boots!

It was an unerving experience but we stayed there awhile a no other incidents occurred. We returned for several years and although fascinating, the area seemed pretty "picked over" or well explored by others.

We always climbed the western side of the mountain up one particular ravine which wasn't too bad for a younger guy with backpack. Now, I would climb the Ely-Anderson trail because I am too old and don't care if people see me.

By the way, some of those ridges are pretty steep but still "doable".

T
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Packin In

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

If they have the time, and inclination, two guys you might want to try exploring with would be, Mr. Bushrat and Mr. Zentull. Never hurts to hook up with folks who have been there and done that.

As for Mr. "Glock", While I have heard he is one of the best in the businesss, I could never get past the looks of those European imports.
I did purchase a Beretta 92F(S) because everyone just had to have a 9mm in their collection, but I have never carried it. It is fun to shoot. :)

My other "foriegn" moment of weakness, is a Benelli M3 Super 90 with a pistol grip stock. My carry gun, is a Para-Ordnance "Companion" LDA, with Lazer Grips for low-light (intimate) situations. In a pinch, I would use that to clear a path back to the Benelli. 8O

For weddings, Bar mitzvah's and other social occassions, :lol: I am partial to a .38 S&W Airweight, also equipped with Laser Grips.

Just making conversation here. :wink:

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Post by Bushrat »

For the sake of conversation (and because I am at my kids' apartment in
Tempe bored out of my mind waiting to attend a wedding in Gold Canyon tonight):

I used to carry a 1960's vintage S&W Model 36...and what a nice little gun. Then after a few negative experiences I carried a S&W Model 27 w/ 8-3/8" bbl. A little heavy but kind of intimidating...especially with Cor-Bon Penetrator rounds. Very accurate.

The last few years as I began feeling my age and decided to go 'ultralight" I purchased a S&W Model 386 Titanium, 7-shot, good shootin' ultra lightweight revolver. Expensive but sweet. (Cor-Bon equipped).

Hard to get away from those Smith's. (I do carry my Benelli Super 90 w/pistol grip for bear protection in Alaska). Regards...
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Post by djui5 »

Joe,
You're cracking me up :lol:

I was going to get a Glock 37 (.45), but my father recommends a 27 (.40). I'll check both out and get which one I like better. I've always liked Glocks, and they are very reliable, especially in rough terrain. I thought about the revolver, but for some reason I'm not partial to revolvers. Plus, I want more bullets 8O Hard to shoot when your reloading!

I probably won't be able to get up in that area until after the first of the year.

Bushrat,
Have fun at the wedding! Thanks for the advice :)
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The LDM?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

Another interesting thing about Magill's LDM is that John Dahlmann spent eleven years, between 1966 and 1977 riding in the Superstitions. He made at least 10 trips per year and a good deal of that time was riding the top of Bluff Spring Mountain. He never found any sign of Magill's "claim" or workings.

He rode up the trail out of Crystal Spring and often rode down the north end of the mountain. His experiences in the Superstitions and with folks like Ted De Grazia and Bill Crader, can be found in: "A Tiny Bit of God's Creation" by, John L. Dahlmann.

As I said before, Bluff Spring Mountain has been well searched.

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Post by zentull »

There is still a bit of Magills existence up there.

Best story I can relate is one night I am all by my lonesome and tucked in and I keep hearing foot steps every now and then. Finally I was awake enough to realize they were almost on me.

I got up several times that night before I realized it was my neck bones and some debris in there making the noise. A dog can be the best lookout money can buy.
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Post by djui5 »

I got up several times that night before I realized it was my neck bones and some debris in there making the noise. A dog can be the best lookout money can buy.

ha! Don't know how many times I've been spooked by my backpack making noises behind my back...swore I heard something, turned around, and laughed at myself. :lol:
Randy Wright
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LOL

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

You boys are a caution..... :lol:

Joe
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