Bob Corbin - The FBI - The Stone Maps

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Roger
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Stone Map Replica's

Post by Roger »

Jim Hatt wrote his small booklet (20 pages), "The Peralta Stone Maps", in 2005 and covered the Peralta Stone Maps, the Latin Heart, and the Stone Crosses. On the inside of the back cover he incldued a set of Stone Map photo's and said:

"Full Scale Reproductions of the Peralta Stone Maps as shown above can be purchased at the Goldfield Superstition Museum in the Goldfield Ghost-Town, Apache Junction, AZ. 480-677-6463 or by contacting the Author at the e-mail address on the back cover."

That e-mail address is [email protected]. I have written to Jim Hatt at this email address again today and it is still a dead account. I haven't called the Goldfield Museum to see if they have a set for sale. There was a set of Peralta Stone Maps for sale on eBay not long ago.

The sum of all this is that there are probably more copies of the Stone Maps out there than one would suspect. I would guess between 50 and 100 have been made - just a guess.

There are probably a few distinguishing marks on the copies (which probably came from 3 sets of molds maximum) that can be used to distinquish them from the originals. I haven't had time to do that exam on known photo's of the originals and then see what defects/errors the copies have on them. Probably not worth the work and I will just stick to known originals.

Roger
Ronnie Kelso
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Post by Ronnie Kelso »

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rochha
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Post by rochha »

Ronnie,

How does this photograph of a horse head prove the stone maps are real?

I have seen other heads of various animals before in other places of arizona carved in a similar fashion.

You sound very much like another " hunter " who posts here under alot of other names.

Rochha
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Post by Ronnie Kelso »

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Joe Ribaudo
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Nags

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mr. Kelso,

If your picture is supposed to be a horse's head, that's one ugly-assed hammerhead. On the other hand, if it's a dragon, he's quite handsome. :lol:

Did you, by any chance, take pictures of the rest of the horse's body. I assume you noticed they took a lot of time and effort to carve the entire horse.

When you find the correct horse, the outline of his head, ears, neck with mane flowing in the correct direction, back, and two humps creating his rump will all be there.

You are 100% correct, that "the Stone Maps are real". That does not mean they are not a modern-day creation.

The archaeologists that examined the Stone Map in 2005 are more than qualified to give an "expert" opinion as to their authenticity. All three came to the conclusion that they were a modern-day hoax.

One of the reasons that is hard for many of us to accept, is because we have been to the locations where "parts" of the maps can be found. They are all over the Superstition Mountains, and the world for that matter.

As for the trail maps, there is only one place in the Superstitions, where the entire trail can be hiked. Few have made that trip.

Are you sure you took that picture in the Superstitions? Did you tell Mr. Wright where it was? What did you find at the Xs that are on the Stone Maps?

I understand if you don't care to answer. But since you are in the conversation, I assume you want to talk about it. Otherwise......what's the point?

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by djui5 »

That's funny Joe, my wife said it looked like a dragon too.

Yes, I've seen the other side, and it's immensly convincing. No, I don't know where in the Supers this photo was taken. It dosen't matter to me right now. When Ronnie is ready, we'll take a hike up there.
Randy Wright
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The Other Side?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't recall asking if you had seen "the other side".

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by djui5 »

You didn't Joe, I was just stating that because Ronnie had said he sent me the other side.

Last post here, promise.
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Post by zentull »

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rochha
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Post by rochha »

Ronnie.............or whoever you are!

I said what I said because of this:

Lost Dutchman Gold Mine - Arizona Superstition Mountain Wilderness - Gold Mining Forum Index
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Coincidance...........probably not!

I also did not say I have seen other horses heads, this is what I said:

" I have seen other heads of various animals before in other places of arizona carved in a similar fashion ".

I have seen heads of lions, dogs and birds.

So, as you say this is proof positive the stone maps are real! How? Because it is a horses head and there is a horse on one of the stone maps? Are we to assume then there is a similar carving of a horses ass somewhere located in the Supers waiting to be found?

No pun intended!

Rochha
Ronnie Kelso
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Post by Ronnie Kelso »

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Joe Ribaudo
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The Stone Maps

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wyatt,

Your reply seems a bit testy, but enlightening.

Rochha has, rightfully, crossed me off his Christman Card list. :( We had only met once, at the museum, and exchanged posts and e-mails. I believe we had one telephone contact. He has always been honest with me, and that says a lot for the man.

As for ROCHA, I believe you are the only one who has actually exchanged ideas with him....I assume it's a him.

This explaines my thoughts and history with the Stone Maps:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

XXXX,

I have been in touch with all three of the archaeologist who examined the Stone Maps in 2005 for "Arizona Highways". All three stone tablets were "sandstone" and from two separate regions of Arizona, neither of which were part of the Superstition Mountains.

All three came to the "independent" conclusion that the maps were a modern-day creation. They came to those conclusions from different perspectives, based on their areas of expertise. Hard to argue with that.

I have believed in, and researched those stones for close to forty years. I don't really regret the time, because it has been a wonderful adventure, but it's hard to let go of something that has been a part of your life for so long. Feel like I'm putting down a favorite pup. :cry:

I have ALWAYS said that it was possible that the maps were a hoax.......ALWAYS. It's now turning into another adventure trying to run down the perp's. I have no animosity towards the person(s) who may be responsible, but when you decide to play this game, you better cover your ass. If I don't expose them......someone else will.

As for krf: It's an ongoing shame for the LDM Forum that people are allowed to create so many identities, because they are ashamed of what they are writing. The Webmaster states that he does "not have the time" to clean up the Forum. I believe that is true, and easily fixed by taking some of the, more level-headed, members and making them moderators.

It has nothing to do with "freedom of speech" and everything to do with keeping the Forum focused and sane.

If the Forum is going to survive, I believe, it will have to be saved by moderators.

I may post this reply on the Forum. I will delete your name from the post.

Take care,

Joe

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above e-mail was sent to a "new" friend who has been a Forum Lurker for quite awhile. He is reluctant to post because of the constant, mindless, anonymous attacks by members on members.

Good luck with your Stone Map Adventure.

Joe Ribaudo
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Worthless Speculation

Post by novice »

Just my thoughts,

I think we may well have two different authors of the stone maps. They just don’t look like the work of the same person to me? (Also the different types and location of the stone used to create the maps). The horse stone is easily the most questionable and which I suspect may have had items added to the original stone by later owners. (If the original stones are those in the Museum?)

The soft red sandstone maps may be the more interesting as far as the on the ground locations. I have never tried to identify any features so I wouldn’t even say they were applicable to the Superstitions.

Garry
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IN THE INTEREST OF HISTORICAL ACCURACY

Post by krf »

I pulled all of my dogs out of this fight when it got childish and personal, and some might say that I have no right to introduce another dog into it at this late date. If the responses that follow this post indicate that to be the case I will gladly delete it as well.

Joe wrote:
“I have been in touch with all three of the archaeologist who examined the Stone Maps in 2005 for "Arizona Highways". All three stone tablets were "sandstone" and from two separate regions of Arizona, neither of which were part of the Superstition Mountains.

All three came to the "independent" conclusion that the maps were a modern-day creation. They came to those conclusions from different perspectives, based on their areas of expertise. Hard to argue with that”




Very good Joe, your efforts have put us all one step closer to seeing the “Official Reports” signed by the Experts in their fields. I am sure you do not expect everyone to take your opinion of their opinion as conclusive in any way, and am assuming that a person as interested in getting the facts as you are had the foresight to request copies of the Official Reports and intend to post them here for all to see and cross examine?

I am especially interested in knowing how they are qualified to form the conclusion that the sandstone used to make the tablets did not come from the Superstitions? Not that it makes any difference where the stones came from, but it does leave the EXPERTS out on a limb with their claim to know every type of stone that exists in the Superstitions and conclude that the stones could not have come from there. Did any of them ever step foot into the Superstition range or did they get their information from some Government report that also stated there is no gold in the Superstitions? It would also be nice to know how all three of these experts gained access to the original stones to make their evaluations. and how they verified that the stones they examined were the originals. How do we know that their conclusions weren't based on the examination of photographs of copies of he maps? Just little details like that which should be included in the official reports that as I mentioned above I am sure you requested copies of when you personally talked to the experts.

As far as “They came to those conclusions from different perspectives, based on their areas of expertise. Hard to argue with that” goes, You will just have to post those official conclusions for all to see, and let the forum determine if they can be argued or not.

Short of that, all we have is your opinion of their opinions, or the Arizona Highways Author's opinion of their opinions, both of which are unofficial and very easy to argue with.

krf
Joe Ribaudo
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The "Examination"

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

krf,

First of all, there were no "official reports", as there was no official request.

It would appear that the Stone Maps were "loaned" to Peter Nobels, the reporter from Arizona Highways, by the museum. That would, most likely, be done by Steve Decker.

It is also possible that "Lesley Presmyk, vice chairman of the Arizona Mineral and Mining Museum Foundation" made the stones available, as his picture appears in the article.

Another direct quote in the article comes from Ray Grant:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"People...come, they pay money to photograph them," says Ray Grant, chairman of the Arizona Mineral and Mining Museum Foundation. "I think people just like lost treasure stories."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's two quotes from the folks who hold the Peralta Maps. Now the question is: Did they give this reporter original maps, or copies made from molds?

It seems likely, they would not give the archaeologists' anything but the originals, as they would have spotted anything made from molds immediately. As I have said before, no one who has a vested interest in the Stone Maps would want them declared a modern-day hoax by any expert in the field. I should think that no one would disagree with that.

The archaeologists' who examined the stones, are the first professional research archaeologist to allow their names and direct quotes to be used in connection with the Stone Maps. They had no personal axe to grind, such as a Jesuit Priest (Father Polzer) might.

Their words, both in the article and in private conversations, are convincing. They may have some reluctance to be quoted further, because of the insane characters that seem to gravitate towards the maps. I am sure you understand.

Good luck in your own Stone Map Adventure.

Joe Ribaudo
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Mike McChesney
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Hey Joe,

It depends on what your definition of "Vested Interest" is. I know that somebody who wants to make money from books and tourists would NEVER want them declared fakes!

BUUUUUUUUUT......somebody who has been researching them, and thinks them to be real, and a cache of gold or silver still sits in a cave waiting to be found, might want EVERYBODY to think the stones are fakes! That would mean less people interrupting their search, and therefore, less chances of somebody else finding the cache first!

That's the crazy part about the stone maps. There are GREAT reasons for people to want them declared both fakes and authentic! It all depends on what their particular interest in the stone maps is!

THAT, MY FRIENDS, is why I started this whole mess again with the "Tom Kollenborn Stone Maps" Thread. Just trying to get the written evidence that's been told and retold a million times!

Best,

Mike
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Faith

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mike,

Seems like what you say would be obvious to just about anyone, but considering the history of this Forum......Who knows?

There are any number of "other sides" to this story. Once you have figured out the locations on the Stone Maps, and spend the next thirty or forty years looking at a couple million rocks, you may have a slightly different view of the story.

You only need to draw two straight lines to figure out the location of the circle in a circle. If you go there, you will be in the center of the Stone Map heart. You will also be within sight of the heart itself. You will not find one of the Xs there.

The last X, which I believe may not have been found, lies directly in front of the triangle slash. If it has, there will be nothing left....same as the others.

Only someone who has spent years in those mountains could have created those maps. Once you have hiked that trail, you will know what I mean. As you walk the trail, the map will unfold before you, but you have to keep your eyes off your feet.

Good luck,

Joe
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Mike McChesney
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Hey Joe,

I'm so glad I don't live around there! I wouldn't be able to hold a straight job! :D :D :D

Between what MIGHT be in the Supers, and what is definitely in the Tuscon-Nogales-Arivaca Triangle, I would be spending all my time in the desert!

Distance is the only thing that keeps my obsessions to a dull roar. :D :D

I spend enough time in the deserts of SoCal!

Best,

Mike
Joe Ribaudo
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Borrego 13

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mike,

I understand completely. :lol:

Have you read Borrego 13? If not, I would suggest you contact Gene Reynolds for a copy.

Perhaps it would be best if you did not make it to the Rendezvous. There will be folks there who could really fan the fires of your obsession. 8O

Take care,

Joe
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Mike McChesney
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Post by Mike McChesney »

I'll show you one thing that has me obsessed here in California:

Image

The biggest heart I have ever seen. It's about 50 feet tall and about 40 feet wide, carved into the bedrock on the side of a mountain. It's only visible through a low pass in a box canyon. You have to go through some really crappy canyons to get there.
Best,

Mike
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The Stone Maps

Post by Heidi II »

Heidi likes pretty picture of heart in California. Makes Heidi very happy.

Glad evil men here do not know how to read the Stone Maps.

The Priest and Horse Map are real but silly.

The trail Maps are maps but they are something else.

Caves, Caves, Caves

Heidi
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Hey Havasu Heidi,

Glad you like the heart.

How do you figure the maps?

Best,

Mike
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The Stone Maps

Post by Heidi II »

Mike,

Horse and Priest Maps were made in near time. Heidi knows who made them. Bad, Bad men.

Trail Maps very, very old.

Maps take you to places in the Superstitions. Maps are maps of mis-direction.

Several maps missing.

Maps are like printing plates. Place parchment between them with ink and see. Need missing maps.

Bad men know this. Ruth knew this. The maps were known before they were found.

Time for Heidi to go.


Heidi
Ronnie Kelso
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