Bob Corbin - The FBI - The Stone Maps

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Testing or Examining?

Post by novice »

I have seen the word testing, numerous times in the threads regarding the stones. What kind of testing is anyone talking about? We can find the mineral composition of the actual stones but beyond that?

If the markings were made with metal, we might (THIS IS A BIG MIGHT) be able to find particles in some of the grooves. If enough of that could be found to identify the metal composition I believe it could be dated fairly accurately. But whose to say that Tumlinson didn't clean the grooves out using metal tools?

I suspect the best we can do to judge their authenticity is to EXAMINE them. If you believe that the maps held by the Foundation are the authentic ones then we do have one account where they have been examined recently. Again it will be your perspective as to what value you place upon their interpretation?

Many of you have seen the article, "The Peralta Stone" in the January 2005, Arizona Highways in which the maps were examined. This article was provided to me by a believer in the maps and since it doesn't support his ideas, I want to applaud his openness! You will have to judge the examiner's conclusions and credentials yourself.

I have used a string of periods to denote omitted text within the quote signs.

Research Archaeologist Dr. Jenny Adams of Desert Archaeology Inc. (Consulting Firm)

1. "There is no evidence that the stones were ever buried."
2. "The dark stones were mechanically sanded and then drilled.........In many places, there is a 'start dimple' where the drill first touched the stone."
3. "The use of an electric drill to create the drawings and symbols............dates their carving to sometime after 1940."

Research Geologist Dr. Elizabeth Miksa of Desert Archaeology Inc. (Consulting Firm)

4. ......"the Peralta Stones originated far from where they were supposedly found."
5. "The big stone with the horse appears to be Coconino Sandstone,...... The other two sandstones are very soft, very fine, iron-rich ...sandstones. [These] are most likely found on the Mogolon Rim or in northern Arizona."

Historical Archaeologist Homer Thiel of Desert Archaeology Inc. (Consulting Firm)

6. "The lettering is completely wrong for the Spanish language documents of the [supposed] time period."

Now if they have the wrong maps it is easy to dismiss most of the story, or if not, you might simply say that they were not objective when they began their examination and were out to prove they were fakes. Therefore they have little credibility.

I would not even try to debate, pro or con, of the various conclusions by this group, but I don't ignore their conclusions either.

Garry
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The Original Peralta Stone Maps

Post by Roger »

I posted the following info in an earlier thread back in March on the Peralta Stone Maps and though I would bring it forward:'

"I also saw the Stone Maps on display in the Mesa Southwest Museum in the early 1990's that were in a glass display case. After talking with the Museum staff, I learned that the ones on display were replica's and the real stones were kept in a locked vault in the back of the Museum. I inquired if I could see the real ones and they said yes, but I would have to pay $15/hr for an observer (read college student) to watch me all the time. I did this and took about 2 hrs looking at the stones in the back room on a bench. I made several etchings or rubbings of areas of the stones that I wanted to have more detail on. I also found in this examination that the words "Santa Fe" were scribed into the left hand side (not top, but the edge) of the Horse Stone and that the two "river" lines actually ran around the edge of the stone onto the side. "Santa Fe" was written between these two lines on the left side of the stone. It is obvious that if the two rivers on the Horse Stone are related to the Superstitions, then Santa Fe has to be on the right of these two rivers - not the left. However, since the word lays between the two rivers and the word Rio is shown, one has to reverse the location of "Santa Fe" in mirror fashion which puts it on the correct side. "

These were the original stone maps that I got to examine before they were moved to the Arizona Mineral & Mining Museum in Phoenix. I used a magnifying glass (2X, 4X, and 6X) to examine the stones and saw no evidence of tooling marks or drill starter holes at the beginning of each letter on the stones. The stone with "DON" on it was the most wornon that side and the Horse stone also showed signs of wear. The Heart had been cracked in two along a natural fault in the stone and later glued back. I am certainly not trained in archaeology, but from a novice's eye - - these did not look like forgeries.

In a phone discussion about the Stone Maps with Chuck Kenworthy, he acknowledged that he had also seen the "Santa Fe" marking on the stones so he must have worked with the originals that he photographed. I have placed his photo's of the Stone Maps in the Members Archive section if you want to see them.

There have been a number of reproductions made on the Stone Maps - some back in the 1970's and another group in 2002 or so. I don't know if they are all from the same set of molds, but suspect they were.

My 2 cents on the subject.

Roger
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No Testing Done.

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

You are, of course, correct. No testing was done by Desert Archaeology, Inc.

They did an "informal" examination to the Stone Maps and came to the conclusions you have mentioned.

I will add some quotes tomorrow.

Once again, you have done some fine work. Ted De Grazia is still lurking in the background of this story.

Take care,

Joe
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Quotes

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

I will not be adding any quotes, prior to getting the good Doctor's permissions.

From what they have said, it seems unlikely that they examined the originals. From the original photo, I wonder if any of us have seen the originals.

What do you think, Roger? Did the Stone Maps you paid to examine look like the same ones we have shown pictures of? Do any of them look like the surface of the maps in the original photo?

I will create an album in "Member Archive" and put a few of Steve Decker's photographs in it.

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Post by zentull »

This is off the subject matter here a bit, but ties in I believe.


The Don stone has the cross stone on the opposite side from everything I read. The Priest stone has the Horse stone on it's opposite side. That would put the maps back to back. Except when they are pictured together, which is impossible....right? Except Dr Glover says they each are the reverse of the Priest and Horse stones. Sikorsky has the Heart stone the opposite side of the cross stone and the other mapped stone the opposite of the Don stone. In some cases you could say the authors were confused, but this seems a bit ridiculous. Unless the stones they were shown are different in each case.

When viewing pictures I see the same discoloration marks on the stones in every picture from the tags that were placed before to conceal information.

On page 341 of Dr Glovers book there is a picture of the map stones that show overlap that they are actually together. Though the heart map here has some different contours than in other photos. It doesn't match other photos in some areas, though it has the same blemish marks from the tags.

So how would you know which ones were real ? Even the slight discrepancies make it more confusing. Tumlinsons photo shows that the maps are on 2 separate stones and it appears they rest on the Priest/Horse stone.
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Wood

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Zen,

We have beat that poor piece of wood to death already. It is not the Priest/Horse tablet. It is wood. I have asked the question many times.....Why no original picture of those two?

Could it be that they were created later, in order to throw confusion into the overall picture? There was a "local" friend who may have suggested the ruse. Something like this: Hey, I have a friend who is an "artist" and if we bring him into the hunt, he could make us a stone smokescreen.

He draws his own horse and uses Chuck Aylor's profile for the priest. Now rather than taking the two "original" trail maps, everyone is trying to figure out how the "smokescreen" fits into the picture....Ala Chuck Kenworthy. Lots of neat "symbols" and numbers in those two.

Ted De Grazia spoke Spanish, but was not a "Native speaker". Now where have I heard that statement before?

Take care,

Joe

Take care,

Joe
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Hey Zentull,

You obviously have TE Glover's Book "The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Watz."

Glover erroneously puts the wrong sides on the wrong stones!

Ask yourself this: "If the Cross is on the opposite side of the Don Stone, and the Horse is on the opposite side of the Priest Stone, then where are the maps?"

The shape should tell you that the Horse/Priest Stone is one, The Cross has a map, and the Don has a map, and the small heart is the small heart.

When I had only read Glover's Book, I was sorely confused, but when I found the timeline inconsistencies in his version of the stones' history with MOEL, I looked a little harder at the stones, and figured out what was what.

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Mike
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Now, one more thing:

Allowing the Tumlinson'e Story about finding the stones is true, the fact that all the stones were found in one place doesn't make much sense! Why, you ask? Here's why:

If you were going to hide a cache/treasure, and made a set of stone maps to show the location and the routes to get there, would you hide EVERY stone in the same hole? Of course not! From the information that is contained on each stone, this is how I would have utilized them:

Hide the DON and CROSS Stones in separate locations in the mountains along the trail. The HORSE?PRIEST Stone outside the mountains, as it looks like it guides you to the cross stone. I would also take the heart stone (smallest) with me whenever I left the area. You always keep the final key to the treasure with you!

If I were a Jesuit Priest or Spanish Treasure Hunter, the ONLY way I would throw all the stones into the same hole is if they were not useful any more! If I went into the mountains and recovered the cache/treasure that the maps led to, I would throw away the stones on my way back to Mexico (The supposed location of the stones finding, is an almost direct line with the route back to the San Xavier del Bac and Tumacacori Missions, the most used route to Mexico).

I ask you, would you really throw away the keystone to a treasure that was still hidden? I wouldn't!

Now, that doesn't account for the possibility that Travis Tumlinson got the stones from someplace else, and lied about finding them, but that is another story altogether! :D :D :D

Best,

Mike
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Bob Corbin-The FBI-The Stone Maps

Post by murphy »

Or maybe whoever was in posession of the maps was also ambushed by Apaches, or was snake-bit or ran out of water and that is as far as they went. The scenarios are endless. If they are authentic we will never know how they got there. If they are a recent fabrication, we have a better chance of finding out.
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Post by Mike McChesney »

All possibilities, but I can't see anybody in any of the situations you gave that would (or could) take the time to dig a big deep hole, and bury the stones.

I don't know if you've ever been in combat, but I have. I'll tell you, when things get hot and heavy, the last thing on my mind would be to hide something! Your mind takes a couple of directions at the same time: Finding good cover, and who do I shoot at?

Best,

Mike
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How Deep?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mike,

The hole was not deep.

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Post by Mike McChesney »

OK, not deep, but my logic is the same. If I were snake bitten, I don't think I would be thinking about digging anything. If I were in a fight with Apache, I wouldn't be thinking about digging anything (except maybe a foxhole to shoot from). If I had run out of water I MAY have taken the time to hide the stones before looking for a tank, depends on how parched I happened to be at the time.

Remember, if someone were going to hide the stones quickly because of something bad that happened quite fast (and they thought they would be able to come back later for them), they would have hidden the stones near a prominent landmark, that they could easily find again. I don't think that rest stop nor highway 60 was there back then. But then againm who knows?

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Mike
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Endless Possibilities

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mike,

There are endless possibilities as reasons why the Stone Maps were all together and in that particular place.

We have had those maps for decades now, and very few people have been able to figure them out. I doubt the makers were that worried about someone coming along and finding them......ever.

Would someone in dire straits take the time to bury them? Perhaps.

Assume you are part of the Peralta family, who are battling the Indians, and have been entrusted with getting the stones back to the family in Mexico. You escape the fight, but the mule carrying the maps is wounded.

The wounded animal gives in, just outside the mountains. You can't carry the stones yourself, so you place them in a small depression and cover them with dirt.

Making your way back to Mexico, you are killed or die from exposure.
The only link to the Stone Maps dies with you.

I believe you could make dozens of plausable stories to fit the burial of the Stone Maps, including them being buried there under no duress at all.

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Post by Mike McChesney »

I agree that there are tons of possibilities, but even in your scenario, I couldn't see it.

Pedro was supposed to have been one of the few survivors, and made it back to Sonora, only to move to Baja when all healed up. Nobody ever came back and got the stones.

When would have been a good time to bury the stone maps? The Indians would have spent a good deal of time stripping the corpses of anything useful. Highly doubtful they would have been buried during a running battle.

As was pointed out in a PM, nobody knows just how shallow the stones were. It's possible, that the stones just fell (or were dropped) right there, and the years and the winds blew sand over them, covering them up.

I don't personally believe that (if they are authentic) that they were supposed to be taken back and forth from Mexico every year. Parchment maps would have been a better choice (lighter and easier to hide or destroy in an emergency). With parchment maps, they would have only to make a copy every year before heading North. After the season, just burn the copy. Make a new one the next year. The only reason for stone maps would be to leave them on site, and maybe have a paper map to get them to the hiding spot. The heart stone (with the final location) would be taken home every year.

The only reason I can think of (other than tragedy) to leave the key (heart stone) to your treasure hiding place, is if the hiding place no longer hides anything of value.



Best,

Mike
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Post by djui5 »

The answer is right here, in Bob Garman's "Mystery Gold Of The Superstitions":
(not taken as definitive text, re-worded by myself for this post)

The indians blocked their trail going south to Mexico that they normally took. The mexicans waited for a time at the creek crossing, but the Indians didn't leave. They decided not to fight as they had women and children with them. They decided to take the trail back through the Superstitions and come out the other side, near Goldfield, and head back in open land where they had the advantage.

Miguel made the call to lighten the load for the treck around the mountain. They kept the best of the gold ore, and dumped the non-essentials in hopes the Indians would pick them up and leave. Due to the weight of the stone maps, they were buried, to be picked up on the way back from their treck around the mountains. The maps were hidden near the trail (which explains their find location).

They never made it.
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Finding of the Peralta Stone Maps

Post by Roger »

Let's go back to some of the source material to see how the maps were really found (if they were found in Queen Valley) and what might have been the circumstances around their burial. Travis Marlowe (aka Robert Garman) wrote a booklet in 1965 titled "Superstition Treasures" that tells the story of the finding of the Stone Maps in 1951 by a friend named "Jack" a few years earlier. Jack turns out to be Richard G. Tomlinson from Oregon as we know today. Here are a few quotes from Travis's book scattered over pages 23 to 36:

FINDING THE FIRST STONE ON THE WAY TO TEXAS
"....Having plenty of time, he decided to look around a little. Driving back off the main highway for some distance, he stopped his car and walked out on the desert. He then decided to walk up on a small mound to see if he could see Weaver's Needle.
He stumbled on something projecting from the ground, turing around to see what it was. It was a rock. He was about to go on when he noticed some letters on the stone.
At first glance, he thought it was a fire brick. How would a fire brick get way out here? He tried to pick it up, it was solid. Taking another rock, he dug around it. More letters showed, words took form, he could not understand them, must be in a foreign language. He was now very excited. He dug faster, and finally the stone could be moved and lifted out.
.....On one side was a carving of what looked like a Priest holding a cross with figures, and a lot of symbols and writing he could not understand.
On the other side was carved a horse with more symbols, and writing. This stone was about 16 inches long, 2 1/2 inches think, and about 10 inches wide, irregular at the top, weighing approximately 25 pounds.

TWO DAYS OF SEARCHING THE SITE ON THE WAY BACK HOME FROM TEXAS
"He spent two days, however, walking over the desert, back and forth, looking for something, he did not know what. Finally, on a ledge of rock projecting up from the desert, he found carvings of signs and symbols.
They meant nothing to him. Then he walked by a large saguaro cactus and, at a glance, he saw that there was a hole drilled all the way through it, the height of a man's eye. Just for curiosity he stepped back and looked through the hole. He did not have to stoop or stretch, it was just the right height to look through, and to his amazement, he was looking at the very hole, about a quarter of a mile away, where he had dug up the treasure map...in the side of that small knoll.

FINDING THE TWO MAP STONES AND HEART STONE ONE YEAR LATER
"...At the lower part of the stone was carved "8 - N - P". The meaning of this he figured was 8 north paces.
Early the next morning Jack was over by the little hill. This time he used magnetic North, paced off eight paces and started digging. .....He sat down on the edge of the hole, the dirt gave way, and there --- projecting from the edge --- were two stones laid face to face.
.....
He dug down very carefully and about eight inches down he found something. Putting his shovel down, he dug with his hands. There was a flat piece of Chalcedony stone, carved into a shape of a heart, about one-half inch in thickness."

END OF QUOTES

A couple of points from this booklet information:

1. Specific symbols had been carved on a rock that lead to a "gun sight" saguaro which pointed to the location of the buried Priest/Horse stone.
2. The Horse/Priest stone was not buried with the other three stones and one had to decipher a portion of the code on the Priest stone to find the other three stones (8 - N - P).
3. SUMMARY: These stones were not buried in "the heat of battle", but were constructed in the area. They were then very strategically buried with rock and Saguaro location markers to the burial site of one stone plus code on it that would lead to the other three stones.

My supposition if this story is true is that the Peralta's made the Stone Maps while in the Supers, that they buried them as they were leaving the mountains on the South side along their trail and marked rocks and a Saquaro to lead to their burial site. The stone maps were not intended to travel far - only last a long time while buried and be easy to retrieve for those that knew how to find the location markers.

There is some discrepancy in Marlowe's tale in that there is no "8 - N - P" maker on the Priest stone. There is a "8 - P" but it is followed by a "Tobias" symbol which is a cross with a rough rectangle around it. Marlowe somehow got a letter "P" out of this last symbol. His reading could have still been correct to look 8 paces north to find the rectangle map stones - one of which has a large cross on its reverse. Also of note, the beginning of the trail going upward on the bottom map stone is also marked with the Tobias sign to its left. This could indicate that the trail into the mountains begins on the right side of the location where the stone maps were buried. The wavy river line would then be Queen Creek and the trail goes on Northward into the Supers.

Here would be an interesting outing around the 2006 Lost Dutchman Rendezvous - a group exploration of the area 1/4 mile north of where Tomlinson found the buried stones to see if the rock markings and the marked Saguaro can be found. If these markers were found, it would verify Tomlinson's tale and confirm for sure that the Peralta Stone Maps were found near the Supers.

Lots of speculation and conjecture, but if Marlowe's tale is true, the Spanish or Mexicans strategically buried the stones as a permanent map to find the mine in the Superstitions marked with a circle-in-a-circle at the end of the trail line in the mountains interior.

Mine spin on it. Your thoughts?????

Roger
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Hey Roger,

You got most of your facts completely wrong. Since this thing started on three separate forums, I have done more research into the stones than most humans.

The name of the man who found the stones was Travis Tumlinson. The stones were ALL found on the same day, in the same hole.

Travis Marlowe's real name was Clarence O. Mitchell. Mitchell was the man who bought the stones from Alleen Tumlinson (Travis' Widow), shortly after Travis' death in 1961. He was a close friend of the Tumlinson's.

Immediately after buying the stones from Alleen Tumlinson, Mitchell formed MOEL Inc (Mining, Oil, Exploration, and Leasing). He kept the stones a secret for a few years (until he ran out of money). He started looking for investors, and because the stones were still mostly a secret, he could only find investors in family and close friends. He contacted Life Magazine, and used the Pen Name "Travis Marlowe". He got the name from a combination of Travis Tumlinson (the stones' finder), and Phillip Marlowe (Phillip Marlowe was the name of a Private Detective in the movies The Maltese Falcon, and The Big Sleep, played by Humphrey Bogart). The national attention from the Life Magazine article, brought tons of new investors, it also brought attention from the SEC (The Securities and Exchange Commission) and the US Attorney's Office in Phoenix. The state of Arizona had nothing to do with the investigation because MOEL was a NEVADA Corporation, and they were selling unlicensed stock in the stones. As a result of the charges, MItchell (MOEL) agreed to repay about $60-$80K (depending on your source). This all happened in 1964. MOEL went bankrupt and fell apart in 1965. The stones then went to The A.L. Flagg Foundation (Arizona Mining and Minerals Museum).


Now, all this is based on the proposition that Travis Tumlinson told his brother the truth about finding the stones, and he didn't get them from his father, who had either stolen them, or bought them from a man that stole them from a small Mission in Mexico!

Best,

Mike
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Stone Maps

Post by Roger »

Mike, thanks for the correction on the individuals' identities in my posting. Went from memory on the connections and should have check my files - something I should do at my age.

Back to the content of Travis Marlowe's/Clarence Mitchell's article from 1965 that I posted. He was good friends with the Tumlinson's as you say so he would have had access to the "real" story of the finding of the stones. Did he simply fabricate the storyline of how he describes he found the stones to pump his investors? Conversely, where have you found it documented that he found them in a single hole?

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Post by Mike McChesney »

Nobody knows just how long he had been friends with the Tumlinsons.

Travis' health started to fail in about 1956, and couldn't go out to the Supers anymore. That's when he gave the stones and a map to where he found them to his brother (Robert Tumlinson).

Robert was retired and living on a very small pension (He was older than Travis). He kept the stones in a box under the bed in his small apartment. Not having the money for a trip to the Suerstitions, he used to sit at the Camelot Bar, and spend the whole day talking about how he was going to find the Lost Dutchman Mine one day! He talked about it so much, that he earned the nickname "Hardrock."

One day, he found that his landlord Gene Davis, was an interested listener. He showed him the stones, and his brother's map. That was enough for Davis to spend the money for a couple of trips into the Supers.

When in about 1959, Robert's health began to get bad, he gave the stones back to his brother Travis, but Travis' health was even worse than it was when he gave the stones to Robert in the first place.

Robert Tumlinson died in 1959 or 1960, and the only reason we know what we do, is because Gene Davis is still alive today to tell the story he got directly from Robert.

An interesting side note: I got some information from somebody that claims Clarence Mitchell's personal effects are with another gentleman now, and in them is a letter from Alleen Tumlinson that casts some serious doubt on where the stones were actually found! I have seen neither a copy of the letter, nor the exact wording of it, but that is something I have heard. TRUE? Who knows?

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Mike
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Stone Maps

Post by Roger »

Mike, you seemed certain that all 4 of the Stone Map stones were found in one hole at the same time. Is this in any of the written records anwhere or is it from some personal interface? Won't ask this question again in case you don't want to share that answer.

Thanks again,

Roger
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Hey Roger,

It's the story from Gene Davis (Robert Tumlinson's Landlord and LDM Partner) as told to him by Robert Tumlinson (Travis' Brother). It's in Glover's Book "The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz"

Provided Travis Tumlinson was telling the truth, that's about as close to the horse's mouth as your going to find!

Best,

Mike
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Wide Web

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roger and Mike,

Dr. Glover seems to have spoken to the principles in this story. The story in his book says that all three stone tablets came from the same hole.

Dr. Glover is correct in that, four stones were found. Where he strays from the "Travis Marlow" story, is that the Priest/Horse stone was found first and the "Trail Maps" were found many months later, and they were in a seperate burial place. He found the heart stone the next day, a little deeper.

The sequence of events, shows that he took the Priest/Horse map to the Gas station, to wash it off. That was the only stone tablet he had at that time. The other stones were a number of months from being found.

It is very unlikely that he exposed the trail maps to anyone.....until he got home. That is where the picture of the maps on the bumper of the car must have been taken. The question that remains is: Where are the original pictures of the Priest/Horse Maps? The "no film" theory, does not fly.

It seems fairly safe to assume that the "Travis Marlow" (sequence) details are fairly close to what happened. Not much reason to prevaricate there. The phamphlet came out in 1965, which was three years after Ted De Grazia's big expedition into the Superstitions.

On Tom Kollenborn's map, he calls the person who drew the maps an "artist". Interesting choice of words. 8O I am going to guess that Ted De Grazia used his own horse and Chuck Aylor for "models". Pictures will be posted.

If you look at some of the people who claim to have something to do with the Stone Maps, you will find "Bob Ward" unobtrusively thrown into the mix. You may want to add Ted De Grazia and Harry LaFrance as well.

As soon as someone places Harry in Morenci at the Company Store, around 1930, we may have connected some dots. Another interesting possibility is: Did Ted De Grazia ever work at that store? He held a number of odd jobs as a young man.

My mind is not as good as it used to be, so I am hoping that one of you young bucks will follow this trail. What company supplied "drygoods", in 1930, for the store in Morenci, and did Harry LaFrance work for them at that time?

I am inclined to believe that the "Trail Maps", for the most part, are the real thing, and that the "Priest/Horse" maps were done to muddy the waters.

If that is not so, it is likely that the whole thing is a hoax.

I will post the pictures today.

Joe Ribaudo
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Day Trip

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roger,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Here would be an interesting outing around the 2006 Lost Dutchman Rendezvous - a group exploration of the area 1/4 mile north of where Tomlinson found the buried stones to see if the rock markings and the marked Saguaro can be found. If these markers were found, it would verify Tomlinson's tale and confirm for sure that the Peralta Stone Maps were found near the Supers.

Lots of speculation and conjecture, but if Marlowe's tale is true, the Spanish or Mexicans strategically buried the stones as a permanent map to find the mine in the Superstitions marked with a circle-in-a-circle at the end of the trail line in the mountains interior.

Mine spin on it. Your thoughts?????"

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Sound like a great idea to me.

As for the "speculation", that's really about all we can do here.

The three archaeologist's from Desert Archaeology, Inc. all came to their conclusions "independently" and "thought they were fakes."

It would seem that they had the real stones, as I doubt copies were made from anything but clay.

I as still receiving information on this examination.

Take care,

Joe
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Mike McChesney
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Post by Mike McChesney »

Hey Joe,

I have gotten information that there have been at least 25 copies of the stones since the late eighties. Before that, who knows.

Molds were made with latex from the originals (the stated originals in 1987). About 27 copies made from them, and the molds were sold to an artist in Laguna Beach, Ca. He made and sold about 5 full-size copies, and then broke the molds. He made many half size sets after that.

I also received information that before turning the stones over to the AM&M Museum, Mitchell had a set of copies made. He took two stones and two copies, and another gentleman took two stones and two copies. Maybe that's why the 2005 tests showed them to be fakes, and the 1964 tests (if they really happened) showed them to be at least 100 years old.

Best,

Mike
Joe Ribaudo
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Better Late.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mike,

That's pretty old information and may have been posted here before.

The folks at Desert Archaeology, Inc., probably examined the real thing.
What they had did not come from a "mold". They would know the difference, I presume.

We still don't know if "tests" were done in 1964. They were "believed" to be "at least 100 years old".

Did you look at the pictures in the "Members Archive"?

Take care,

Joe
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