While there has been discussion concerning Raymond C. Howland, how about Lizzie and her claims of being Waltz's Niece or Grand Niece, depending on the story. Has there ever been any definitive verification that she was even related to Waltz ?
I know that Ray and Lizzie were living with his mother in the 1920s, but found no record for their marriage. Ray was from Michigan I believe and born around 1883-4. Of Lizzie I have found nothing.
Lizzie Howland
Lizzie and Jacob Waltz?
I don't believe I have even heard it suggested that Elizabeth Howland was somehow related to Jacob Waltz. From Steve Creager, I understood that the connection was through Jacob Weiser. I believe the story had its roots in the Mesa Journal Tribune article, January 12, 1931. (There's that pesky Mesa Newspaper again!). I have never seen the actual article and have to rely on the Blair account.
A portion of that story relates;
"Lizzie" Howland discovered some old letters among other family heirlooms in an old trunk, written to her father from her great-uncle Jacob. Naturally, Uncle Jacob was the one-and only Jacob Wiser, partner of Jacob Waltz himself!"
Ernest Douglas was the author and according to Blair his credentials were excellent. The Lizzie Howland letters were not shown to Douglas.
The story was of enough interest to Blair that he looked up Douglas 40 years later. In the Douglas interview, it appears, that for him, it was just another day at the office. It certainly didn't ring any particular bells for Douglas.
When researching Elizabeth, I was very surprised when we found the name Wiser in her ancestry. It at least provided some hint for the roots of Lizzie's story about Uncle Jacob Wiser's letters and the Wiser Map in the Barry Storm book.
One of the things that is confusing from the Blair account is that he records the Jacob Wiser letters were written to Lizzie's FATHER. This made no sense at all. If Lizzie claimed to have letters from Jacob Wiser, it would have been from her Mother's uncle. I suspect this was just an oversight by either Blair or Douglas.
I know that this is a repeat from a previous thread but Lizzie Howland was the daughter of Napoleon Forcade (1858-1920) and Mary Wiser (1866-1898).
In the 1881 Canadian Census we find Napoleon Forcade living with his mother and several siblings in Ste-Romuald, Levis Quebec. Napoleon's father was dead and the family members were all listed as French Catholic. This family of French Catholics gives no hint of any German ancestry.
It was shortly after this that Napoleon shows up in Bay City, Michigan and he marries Mary Wiser there, in 1883. Lizzie was born about 1885 in Bay County, Michigan. Lizzie was about 12 when her mother died and she is living with her father and stepmother in Bay City in the 1900 census.
There was no creditable link to Jacob Wiser thru Napoleon Forcade and we focused on Lizzie's mother, Mary "Minnie" Wiser.
We found Mary in the 1870 census (Milwaukee) and the 1880 census (Saginaw). Her father was Thomas Wiser born about 1829 in England. Her mother was Jane and she was born about 1834 in Ireland. Lizzie's Grandfather was English and her grandmother was Irish. I would anticipate that any uncle would be the same.
There was no Jacob or any Germans for that matter in Lizzie's ancestry.
Our conclusion was, that any ancestral tie of Lizzie Howland to a German named Jacob Wiser was not feasible given the documents we found. No one appears to have ever seen the letters and they have apparently not survived, so people can make of the letters what they wish!
Garry
A portion of that story relates;
"Lizzie" Howland discovered some old letters among other family heirlooms in an old trunk, written to her father from her great-uncle Jacob. Naturally, Uncle Jacob was the one-and only Jacob Wiser, partner of Jacob Waltz himself!"
Ernest Douglas was the author and according to Blair his credentials were excellent. The Lizzie Howland letters were not shown to Douglas.
The story was of enough interest to Blair that he looked up Douglas 40 years later. In the Douglas interview, it appears, that for him, it was just another day at the office. It certainly didn't ring any particular bells for Douglas.
When researching Elizabeth, I was very surprised when we found the name Wiser in her ancestry. It at least provided some hint for the roots of Lizzie's story about Uncle Jacob Wiser's letters and the Wiser Map in the Barry Storm book.
One of the things that is confusing from the Blair account is that he records the Jacob Wiser letters were written to Lizzie's FATHER. This made no sense at all. If Lizzie claimed to have letters from Jacob Wiser, it would have been from her Mother's uncle. I suspect this was just an oversight by either Blair or Douglas.
I know that this is a repeat from a previous thread but Lizzie Howland was the daughter of Napoleon Forcade (1858-1920) and Mary Wiser (1866-1898).
In the 1881 Canadian Census we find Napoleon Forcade living with his mother and several siblings in Ste-Romuald, Levis Quebec. Napoleon's father was dead and the family members were all listed as French Catholic. This family of French Catholics gives no hint of any German ancestry.
It was shortly after this that Napoleon shows up in Bay City, Michigan and he marries Mary Wiser there, in 1883. Lizzie was born about 1885 in Bay County, Michigan. Lizzie was about 12 when her mother died and she is living with her father and stepmother in Bay City in the 1900 census.
There was no creditable link to Jacob Wiser thru Napoleon Forcade and we focused on Lizzie's mother, Mary "Minnie" Wiser.
We found Mary in the 1870 census (Milwaukee) and the 1880 census (Saginaw). Her father was Thomas Wiser born about 1829 in England. Her mother was Jane and she was born about 1834 in Ireland. Lizzie's Grandfather was English and her grandmother was Irish. I would anticipate that any uncle would be the same.
There was no Jacob or any Germans for that matter in Lizzie's ancestry.
Our conclusion was, that any ancestral tie of Lizzie Howland to a German named Jacob Wiser was not feasible given the documents we found. No one appears to have ever seen the letters and they have apparently not survived, so people can make of the letters what they wish!
Garry
Jacob Wieser Was His Name
Novice,
Most of the documents I have researched show Waltz's partner's name as Jacob Wieser which would be of Germanic origins. Could it be that Liz Howland's relative was not that person?
Roger
Most of the documents I have researched show Waltz's partner's name as Jacob Wieser which would be of Germanic origins. Could it be that Liz Howland's relative was not that person?
Roger
Roger,
We were unable identify any of the siblings of Thomas Wiser, Elizabeth's grandfather, but according to the census data, he was an English immigrant. IF Thomas had a brother named Jacob Wiser, which is a big IF, I strongly suspect he wasn't associated with Waltz.
I believe the similarity between the pronunciation of Weiser and Wiser is where the Howland's came up with their ancestral tie to the Jacob Weiser story.
You are obviously correct about the accepted German ancestry of Jacob Weiser.
Some of our conclusions were based on census data and that can be risky. We can never be 100% sure we are correct but I think it is very likely we have the correct individuals. Having said that, my opinion is that the story of the existence of the Wiser (Weiser) letters was fabricated by the Howlands for their own purposes. I suppose I could be wrong.
If people believe there was ever an individual named Jacob Weiser associated with Jacob Waltz, then I think they would do well to look beyond the Howlands. It's hard to pinpoint when Weiser became part of the LDM story but he certainly seems to have been a "Johnny come lately."
Garry
We were unable identify any of the siblings of Thomas Wiser, Elizabeth's grandfather, but according to the census data, he was an English immigrant. IF Thomas had a brother named Jacob Wiser, which is a big IF, I strongly suspect he wasn't associated with Waltz.
I believe the similarity between the pronunciation of Weiser and Wiser is where the Howland's came up with their ancestral tie to the Jacob Weiser story.
You are obviously correct about the accepted German ancestry of Jacob Weiser.
Some of our conclusions were based on census data and that can be risky. We can never be 100% sure we are correct but I think it is very likely we have the correct individuals. Having said that, my opinion is that the story of the existence of the Wiser (Weiser) letters was fabricated by the Howlands for their own purposes. I suppose I could be wrong.
If people believe there was ever an individual named Jacob Weiser associated with Jacob Waltz, then I think they would do well to look beyond the Howlands. It's hard to pinpoint when Weiser became part of the LDM story but he certainly seems to have been a "Johnny come lately."
Garry