It seems like a lot of good question get ignored or the subject gets changed.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a topic where those kinds of questions don't get buried under personal attacks or a cold shoulder.
Along the lines of my question concerning the truthfulness of the Two Soldier's story is another about E.A. Panknin, also said to be tied into their story.
Was Ernest actually a resident of Alaska, as it has been reported, or did he move to Arizona at the age of fifteen, passing away in 1934? To help the story along a little, he was living in Arizona in 1900, and working as a servant and day-laborer for a lady named Laura Ann Poole.
Another question that some clever person might want to pursue is: What hospital did Harry LaFrance die in? Did he actually die as reported, or did he pack some gold bars out of the mountains and disappear? if he did, who helped him?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Unanswered Questions
panknin
As far as Panknin goes he married that woman (her name was Lara) a few years after the well known 1900 census record so I guess he was a "day" guy.
The million dollar question concerning Panknin is who ended up with what when he died.
But isn't that the usual story?
By the way anybody ever see a green spring when you were out and about?
As for the LeFrance story could you elaborate? When you ask questions such as those it's obvious you have additional background information.
Stink bait doesn't usually catch the best fish. Some don't feed on the bottom.
The million dollar question concerning Panknin is who ended up with what when he died.
But isn't that the usual story?
By the way anybody ever see a green spring when you were out and about?
As for the LeFrance story could you elaborate? When you ask questions such as those it's obvious you have additional background information.
Stink bait doesn't usually catch the best fish. Some don't feed on the bottom.
Harry France
Bus Bonner drove to the Fort Whipple Veteran Hospital in Prescott, picked Harry Leslie France up, then joining with the group, packed him into the mountains. Altogether there were twelve people involved in the fruitless search that lasted ninety-days.
The hospital report stated that Harry had (FB) foreign body in the lung area second to (TB) tuberculosis. Even though the physician tried to persuade Harry not to leave the hospital, his mind was set on returning to the Superstition Mountains in an effort to relocate the cave with gold bars. Unfortunately, Harry, along with the rest of the searchers, failed to locate the cave.
During the search, Harry’s health turned for the worst. By the time, Tracy L Hawkins and Chuck Ribaudo had strapped Harry onto a horse and packed him out to First Water Trailhead, he was almost dead. From there, they drove Harry back to the Veteran Hospital in Prescott, where he died ten days later on Jan 26, 1974. He was 53 years old.
buscar
The hospital report stated that Harry had (FB) foreign body in the lung area second to (TB) tuberculosis. Even though the physician tried to persuade Harry not to leave the hospital, his mind was set on returning to the Superstition Mountains in an effort to relocate the cave with gold bars. Unfortunately, Harry, along with the rest of the searchers, failed to locate the cave.
During the search, Harry’s health turned for the worst. By the time, Tracy L Hawkins and Chuck Ribaudo had strapped Harry onto a horse and packed him out to First Water Trailhead, he was almost dead. From there, they drove Harry back to the Veteran Hospital in Prescott, where he died ten days later on Jan 26, 1974. He was 53 years old.
buscar
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Joe Ribaudo
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Bait?
Knun,
"Stink bait doesn't usually catch the best fish. Some don't feed on the bottom."
What's your definitiong of a "bottom" feeder?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
"Stink bait doesn't usually catch the best fish. Some don't feed on the bottom."
What's your definitiong of a "bottom" feeder?
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Moderation not Censorship
Lawerence,
Don't know what happened there, but I thought my questions were harmless and reasonable.
Knun was correct in that I already know a lot of the answers to some of the questions I ask. I think the answeres might hold some interest for other members and stimulate conversation.
Have no idea what prompted his last comment.
Thanks for your reply.
Take care,
Joe
Don't know what happened there, but I thought my questions were harmless and reasonable.
Knun was correct in that I already know a lot of the answers to some of the questions I ask. I think the answeres might hold some interest for other members and stimulate conversation.
Have no idea what prompted his last comment.
Thanks for your reply.
Take care,
Joe
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Bad Questions?
I guess these questions are pretty dumb, as I didn't get much response in the other topic.
Anyone have any opinions?
"That is the question, isn't it? Did Ruth see what he knew would be there, before ever setting foot in the Superstitions? That is exactly what happened in Borrego.
Is the entire story, after he left the ranch, a smokescreen. Let's see.....
How many people are we told were "in the area"? Was Howland there by chance? Why didn't he speak to Ruth? Not like he would have had to speak that loudly (canyon ain't that wide around Willow Spring). Did Howland and the "others" enter from First Water, as well? Busy little place for that time of the year."
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Anyone have any opinions?
"That is the question, isn't it? Did Ruth see what he knew would be there, before ever setting foot in the Superstitions? That is exactly what happened in Borrego.
Is the entire story, after he left the ranch, a smokescreen. Let's see.....
How many people are we told were "in the area"? Was Howland there by chance? Why didn't he speak to Ruth? Not like he would have had to speak that loudly (canyon ain't that wide around Willow Spring). Did Howland and the "others" enter from First Water, as well? Busy little place for that time of the year."
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Chuck Ribaudo
Lawrence,
That was a pretty insightful comment. Chuck knew the truth about that affair.
Take care,
Joe
That was a pretty insightful comment. Chuck knew the truth about that affair.
Take care,
Joe
Known answers
Joe,
I meant not to incite some form of banter and will not participate. It simply is what my impression of what was posted. Hence my reply.
Buscar,
My post was not intended to make you uncomfortable with the discussion. Rest assured I will post no more on this.
That is exactly what prompted my last comment. You have first hand knowledge of the story and choose to ask questions as though you don’t have a clue as to the answer. All that prefaced with the statementKnun was correct in that I already know a lot of the answers to some of the questions I ask. I think the answeres might hold some interest for other members and stimulate conversation.
Have no idea what prompted his last comment.
It’s my experience that if you already know the answer to a question you ask, you are looking for an answer to another question unasked. That is simply an interrogation technique and is not communication. Knowing that your family members were directly involved in that exciting story and reading the above comments prompted my post as written.“Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a topic where those kinds of questions don't get buried under personal attacks or a cold shoulder.”
I meant not to incite some form of banter and will not participate. It simply is what my impression of what was posted. Hence my reply.
Buscar,
My post was not intended to make you uncomfortable with the discussion. Rest assured I will post no more on this.
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Not Enough Information?
Knun,
I don't feel any obligation to supply you, or anyone else with everything I know. If you need more, than I have already given you, try Peter.
I believe he is the most knowledgable Dutch Hunter on the Forum.
I have been more than generous with the members of this Forum. I will only give what I want to, not what you think is proper.
If I give up everything I know, the snakes who never leave their bellies, will bite as soon as my back is turned.
My post had nothing to do with questions getting buried under personal attacks or a cold shoulder. Sorry if you feel that applies somehow.
If you don't have answers for my questions, no need to let it bother you.
I don't know the answers to some of them myself.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
I don't feel any obligation to supply you, or anyone else with everything I know. If you need more, than I have already given you, try Peter.
I believe he is the most knowledgable Dutch Hunter on the Forum.
I have been more than generous with the members of this Forum. I will only give what I want to, not what you think is proper.
If I give up everything I know, the snakes who never leave their bellies, will bite as soon as my back is turned.
My post had nothing to do with questions getting buried under personal attacks or a cold shoulder. Sorry if you feel that applies somehow.
If you don't have answers for my questions, no need to let it bother you.
I don't know the answers to some of them myself.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
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Agreed
Knun,
I agree with you completely. Putting your cards out on the table where everyone can see them is usually a good idea.
No one can doubt where you stand. Honesty is best.
Joe Ribaudo
I agree with you completely. Putting your cards out on the table where everyone can see them is usually a good idea.
No one can doubt where you stand. Honesty is best.
Joe Ribaudo
More information
Peter,
Joe implied that you have additional information conccerning the questions he asked about Panknin and LeFrance.
I'm hoping you can add.
Harry L . France died and was buried in Prescott as Buscar pointed out. He was buried in a paupers grave in a generous town. He was the person who willingly treked into the mountains half dead. Harry LaFrance was a different person. A person not connected to the Cave as far as I know.
As for Panknin. The first reference to Panknin was by Ely, 19 years after Panknins demise. Per Ely, having the map provided by the "Swamper" of "Two Soldiers " fame he searched from the East side. In fact his starting point was the Silver King and he had a map..no he had two....well actually he had three counting the portion he memorized.
One is well known and a version can be seen on this web site. The second he showed to no one, and as I said, the third part was in his head. The first map is quite simple with one problem. A green spring is key. Ely said he found it. Can you? I think I have!
As most of you know this story can be found in the Ely book. That is where Panknin is identified which was after "P's" death.
Bark has him refered to as "Blank" simply because he was still alive at that time.
Many modern Dutchmen closely link this story to the "Soldiers" story. Since many details have not been resolved this story is viewed as something to persue.
As for why Joe would post concernning the two soliers along with the cave of gold bars, I simply don't know.
Based on Joe's post I would suspect Peter knows!
Joe implied that you have additional information conccerning the questions he asked about Panknin and LeFrance.
I'm hoping you can add.
Harry L . France died and was buried in Prescott as Buscar pointed out. He was buried in a paupers grave in a generous town. He was the person who willingly treked into the mountains half dead. Harry LaFrance was a different person. A person not connected to the Cave as far as I know.
As for Panknin. The first reference to Panknin was by Ely, 19 years after Panknins demise. Per Ely, having the map provided by the "Swamper" of "Two Soldiers " fame he searched from the East side. In fact his starting point was the Silver King and he had a map..no he had two....well actually he had three counting the portion he memorized.
One is well known and a version can be seen on this web site. The second he showed to no one, and as I said, the third part was in his head. The first map is quite simple with one problem. A green spring is key. Ely said he found it. Can you? I think I have!
As most of you know this story can be found in the Ely book. That is where Panknin is identified which was after "P's" death.
Bark has him refered to as "Blank" simply because he was still alive at that time.
Many modern Dutchmen closely link this story to the "Soldiers" story. Since many details have not been resolved this story is viewed as something to persue.
As for why Joe would post concernning the two soliers along with the cave of gold bars, I simply don't know.
Based on Joe's post I would suspect Peter knows!
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Another Question Altogether
Knun,
The question about Harry LaFrance was not posed as part of the Panknin/Two Soldiers question. It was just another question.
I implied nothing. Peter has said he knows "more than most of the old timeers", so why ask those who know less?
You seem to be doing just fine on your own. My question remains the same......What happened to Harry LaFrance? Was Harry LaFrance a veteran? Was Harry L. France one?
Buscar has a lot of the answers, along with Tracy Hawkins. Tracy is
(just about) the only person who could have told him about packing Harry out of the mountains.
I doubt Peter knows anything about the cave of gold bars, other than what he has read.
Joe Ribaudo
The question about Harry LaFrance was not posed as part of the Panknin/Two Soldiers question. It was just another question.
I implied nothing. Peter has said he knows "more than most of the old timeers", so why ask those who know less?
You seem to be doing just fine on your own. My question remains the same......What happened to Harry LaFrance? Was Harry LaFrance a veteran? Was Harry L. France one?
Buscar has a lot of the answers, along with Tracy Hawkins. Tracy is
(just about) the only person who could have told him about packing Harry out of the mountains.
I doubt Peter knows anything about the cave of gold bars, other than what he has read.
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Never Said It
Peter,
I have never said "the Soldiers didnt exist". As for "Pankin", I did not suggested he "didnt exist either". Actually, you could be correct. It's possible that "Pankin" didn't exist.
What I did say was: Don Shade, who was a very good friend of Barry Storm, a man you admire greatly, said that Storm invented the story from another story.
It was a good story.
Joe Ribaudo
I have never said "the Soldiers didnt exist". As for "Pankin", I did not suggested he "didnt exist either". Actually, you could be correct. It's possible that "Pankin" didn't exist.
What I did say was: Don Shade, who was a very good friend of Barry Storm, a man you admire greatly,
said that Storm invented the story from another story.It was a good story.
Joe Ribaudo
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Thanks
Peter,
Thanks for your input.
It's true I have started a lot of threads here. As a matter of fact, I started this one. You have posted a number of times, so I assume you have something important you want to say.
We are all waiting.
Actually I already started such a thread. I assume, since you have said,
"Peter knows not about the supposed cave. Nor does Peter care to know.", that you did not post in that thread.
Anyway......This is my very own thread, and you are more than welcome in it.
Joe Ribaudo
Joe Ribaudo
Thanks for your input.
It's true I have started a lot of threads here. As a matter of fact, I started this one. You have posted a number of times, so I assume you have something important you want to say.
We are all waiting.
Actually I already started such a thread. I assume, since you have said,
"Peter knows not about the supposed cave. Nor does Peter care to know.", that you did not post in that thread.
Anyway......This is my very own thread, and you are more than welcome in it.
Joe Ribaudo
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Embarrased?
Peter,
Thank you for your reply.
I don't remember Ely digging up that grave, but you would know.
I assume all of your reply fits into your theory. That would be a good thing, as you would be wasting a lot of time otherwise.
Actually, I am not saying anything happened or didn't happen. What I am saying, is that there might be more to the story or there may be another way to look at an exasting story. In other words, Peter, there may be another opinion in the world that has just as much weight as yours or mine. Don't see any value in beating the other guy's opinion into the dust with insults and bravado.
Every questions we ask is not a personal attack on what you believe. It is an effort to find our own path to the truth. That might end up being your truth, or mine or even Don Shades. But no one should shout down our effort to get there.
Joe Ribaudo
Thank you for your reply.
I don't remember Ely digging up that grave, but you would know.
I assume all of your reply fits into your theory. That would be a good thing, as you would be wasting a lot of time otherwise.
Actually, I am not saying anything happened or didn't happen. What I am saying, is that there might be more to the story or there may be another way to look at an exasting story. In other words, Peter, there may be another opinion in the world that has just as much weight as yours or mine. Don't see any value in beating the other guy's opinion into the dust with insults and bravado.
Every questions we ask is not a personal attack on what you believe. It is an effort to find our own path to the truth. That might end up being your truth, or mine or even Don Shades. But no one should shout down our effort to get there.
Joe Ribaudo
Cards
Joe,
I understand your post about putting cards on the table as well as the many other posts refering to cards on the table.
When playing cards you can only play and hold so many. Others must be discarded. Discarded cards are always out of play.
And thats all I have to say about that.
I understand your post about putting cards on the table as well as the many other posts refering to cards on the table.
When playing cards you can only play and hold so many. Others must be discarded. Discarded cards are always out of play.
And thats all I have to say about that.