Walter Gassler mystery.

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Post Reply
eldorado
Part Timer
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:48 pm

Walt Gasser

Post by eldorado »

TGH,

I guess I just don`t understand why you would take gold to a gold mine.

I can understand taking gold with you in small quantites as a good luck charm, etc., or taking gold samples to compare to an outcrop that you have not located. But as LDM has pointed out Gasser knew where this particular hole in the ground was. He was trying to prove it was the LDM by showing he had solved the puzzle not because of his gold samples.

Furthermore with the nut cases running around up there having any gold on you would place you in additional peril. Would not want to explain to Crazy Jake that the gold samples I had were just good luck charms. Maybe a fast ticket down the side of a mountain.

So let`s ask another question. If Walt did not take Gold into the mountains what does that suggest to you about Mr. X and his visit to Mr. K. Figure that puzzle out and a lot of things fall into place.


EK
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

Roger

I beleive that Walter used that Barnard map. Some of the landmarks on that map are mixed up. Dont know whether or not that was done on purpose. Walter was close in his conclusions about the boulder choked "draw".

el dorado

Knowing what I know about the terrain alone, there is no chance Gassler opened the mine before he died....given the time frame. I beleive if he had ore , he brought it in with him.

P
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
krf
Greenhorn
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Arizona

Post by krf »

Last night I received an email that told me to read an article titled MYSTERY GOLD in the Dec. 1, 1998 issue of the Arizona Territorial by Tom Kollenborn. It is supposed to be the complete story about Walter Gassler’s death in the Superstitions. I do not have access to the old issues of the territorial but some of you may, or know where to find them.

The title of the article suggests that Mr. Kollenborn did not know the source of the gold. I can’t imagine that if he ever talked to Roland Gassler there was any mystery about where the gold in his father’s backpack came from. Additionally, Gassler’s death took place when Bob Corbin was the A.G. Corbin would have been privy every detail concerning the incident. It is difficult to imagine him and Kollenborn not investigating every detail available from every possible source at the time. I have to believe that Corbin & Kollenborn both knew that Gassler carried that piece of MYSTERY GOLD into the mountains with him on that last trip, but decided that the story sounded better without that tidbit of information. (Just my opinion)

According to the story given by Don Shade to Unsolved Mysteries there was a backpack with Gassler when he found his body. One of the things that Roland had told me was that his father carried light packs in the mountains. He carried dehydrated food and needed only water to mix it with. He never carried any canned foods or drinks so it may have been a small pack, but he did have a pack of some kind. As I mentioned earlier, I believe Roland told me that the pack was given to him with his father’s other belongings at the close of the investigation. It did not disappear as suggested in some of the accounts of the story.

If anyone has a copy of the Dec.1, 1998 Arizona Territorial maybe they can give us the details of that story concerning the MYSTERY GOLD and the disappearing backpack as told by Tom Kollenborn.



eldorado -
Several people I know carry specimins in the mountains to compare the quartz structure with quartz the find out there. Quartz comes in a wide variety of structures and colors. One piece often looks just like another until you place the two side by side and examine them both under a Jewler's loop.

krf
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

krf

Completely agree with you as far as Corbin holding info about gold samples close to the vest. Wonder if it had anything to do with book sales?

P
Roger
Part Timer
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Walter Gassler's Mine

Post by Roger »

LDM,

On Map 4 that you just posted in the Members Archive album:

Charlebois Canyon is marked on the map in a North-South fashion. Using the letter "o" in the word "canyon" of this label, go East 2/3's of the distance to Peters Trail and you will be on top of the site of Walter's prospect/mine diggings. Interesting to note that the spot where he was found on Peters Trail is nearly at the spot he had worked years earlier. Makes one wonder if he was at his old haunts or really looking on the West side of Peters Mesa.

I would also suspect that Walter had help in getting to Peters Mesa, but think he would not let the helping individual (s) know where his old camp was located in the clump of trees as it was well hidden and safe from intruders. Probably got dropped off on the Mesa and then moved his supplies to his hidden camp.

My thoughts on these items.

Roger
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
novice
Expert
Posts: 542
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Lake St. Louis, Missouri

X marks the Spot

Post by novice »

I would like to applaud the information and maps that LDM has shared in this thread! Providing X marks the spot or GPS coordinates for different sites has been very rare on the forum. The story represents a lot of time and effort. Little, if anything, has not been shared to those who ask.

Also thanks to Roger for another X marks the spot. I was curious as to how this particular prospect hole was associated with Gassler?

Another question, where did Gassler's "Clues" come from in 1934-1942?

Canyon running north and south, hundreds of pot holes, etc.

Holmes or the Petrasch's? No Ely, Bark, Barnard, Storm, etc.

Garry
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
buscar
Part Timer
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:36 am
Location: Mohawk Valley

Post by buscar »

In Walter Gassler's manuscript on page 13, he writes: However I found the ridge then the bottom of the wash then all at once, I looked up the ridge and found the 3 stones and then the charcoal pits and the tree grove, just to show you just how secluded that place is I left a 5 gallon tin can I used for water in the bushes and 40 years later I went there to see the place, yes you guessed it, the can was still there all by itself, however the trees I think will not be there any longer, it has been over 20 years since I have been back there and then there were only 2 or 3 left, the funny part of it they would only grow 2-3 inches thick maybe 5-6 feet tall then fall over mostly Laurel trees, but there were some small cottonwood trees there too back in the late 30’s but they all died, it used to be a very pretty place, then I noticed to my surprise that the ground around the trees was settling leaving the roots 2-3 inches exposed and I realized that maybe the roots had no way of holding on to the ground and fell over when they got so big, I always intended to go back and see, and I will in a week or so as my time is running out too.

buscar :)
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Re: X marks the Spot

Post by djui5 »

I would like to applaud the information and maps that LDM has shared in this thread! Providing X marks the spot or GPS coordinates for different sites has been very rare on the forum. The story represents a lot of time and effort. Little, if anything, has not been shared to those who ask.

Also thanks to Roger for another X marks the spot. I was curious as to how this particular prospect hole was associated with Gassler?

Garry

I'll second this. I've learned a lot here and am very greatfull for the sharing of information by all of you.

It is my opinion, based on the little I know of the matter, that this is where Walter was going when he died.

Matthew
LDM
If so, why the urgency? If he allready had a claim there, why would he be in such a hurry? Did he possibly have fear that Jake or someone in his camp might find it? Maybe that was the info he had, that Jakes crew was headed that way?

Just a thought.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
murphy
Part Timer
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:12 am
Location: Plano, TX

Walter Gassler Mystery

Post by murphy »

Randy,
If you were 80 some years old, not in great health, and thought you had, after 50 years of searching finally figured out all the clues, and knew the location to the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine. I think getting there would be an extremely urgent matter.
Just my thoughts.
murphy
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Post by djui5 »

That is true Murphy :)
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
djui5
Expert
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:33 pm
Location: AJ
Contact:

Post by djui5 »

That would make sense. The combination of the coming heat, someone possibly discovering his claim markers, and being immensly excited about discovering the "secrets to the LDM"...


Thanks :)
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
TGH
Expert
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:03 am

Post by TGH »

All

LDM has been kind enough to share some interesting, insightful knowledge with you all. He didnt give any secrets away, but this thread has touched upon some of the most compelling theories and evidence relating to modern Dutch Hunter thinking. No silly Stone or Pefil Maps, no innane theories, just solid facts and annecdotes relating to an interesting location in the mountains. And only the tip top of the iceberg......

Before you all grab a pick and shovel and head up to that tree grove on Peters Mesa, might be best to get up to that country and scout things out a bit. Then you guys will see why the majority of Dutch Hunters, after looking that area over said to themselves "Nah, its probably on Bluff Springs Mtn, or Coffee Flat, or West Boulder or my own backyard....it CANT be here."

Youll see.............
novice
Expert
Posts: 542
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Lake St. Louis, Missouri

Gassler Timeline

Post by novice »

I'm still trying to get some kind of "rough" handle on the Gassler timeline. When did he return to Arizona? When did he venture back into the mountains? Dr. Glover suggests his interest was rekindled after reading the Robert Lee book in the late 1970's?

1934-1942 – From Corbin's book in which she has portions of a transcribed Gassler Manuscript, there is a passage. "When I was up there in 34 to 42 some 50 to 60 horses with a white stallion came every morning."

This indicates to me that Gassler is saying his initial search in the Superstitions lasted from 1934 until 1942. He stated that he hunted for the mine in the summer because he had to work in the winter.

1942 Summer – Corbin again "Then came the time I told Tex , I just could not keep up. Either I would have to give up my family or give up prospecting." Later on in the notes, Walter relates, "That was the last time I ever saw Tex."

Walter states he went to Tennessee and apparently didn't return to Arizona until after Tex died.

This would mean that Walter's trip into the Superstitions with Tom Reis (Tex Allowed Reis to ride his favorite horse) was before 1942?

1955 September 30 – William A. (Tex) Barkley Died (The Death Certificate for Tex has recently been added to the Arizona Genealogy Birth and Death Certificates Site – The Death was over 50 years ago) (Heart Failure and there is a notation that he slipped and fell over a rug.)

This would put Walter back in Arizona after 1955. Walter said in his notes "When I came back I visited with Mrs. Barkley when I had time again."

1972 July - Gertrude Barkley Died (Social Security Death Index)

I'm also confused about Walter's mining claim. Does anyone know what the date is on the claim that Walter filed? I thought he would have had to do improvement work each year to keep the claim valid? Would this mean he returned each year or did he hire someone to do it for him? Or had he allowed it to lapse by 1984?

Garry
Roger
Part Timer
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Chuck Kenworthy's Mine Location

Post by Roger »

LDM,

On the 2nd map you posted in the Member Archives, Kenworthy's Claims, I can offer the exact location of the main mine that Kenworthy dug into the South side of Black Mtn:

On your box marking the claim that sits on top of Black Mtn, there is a blue marked ravine that comes up toward it from La Barge and stops at the 3000 ft elevation topo line. Chuck's mine shaft was just below the 3000 ft line where this blue line stops. The trail to the mine started at Charlebois Spring, went NW through the letter "p" in the label "Spring", then more WNW through the letter "C" in Charlebois, and then mostly North with a little Westerly bend to the mine location - staying below the 3000 ft topo line. I suspect your drawing of this claim box should be more to the south.

FYI

Roger
LDM
Part Timer
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:07 pm

Post by LDM »

LDM
Last edited by LDM on Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Roger
Part Timer
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Kenworthy's Dig

Post by Roger »

Kenworthy's tunnel/shaft is completely caved in now. It is not too hard to determine where it is located from the amount of dig debris of rocks and earth that are down slope from it. Chuck never found anything of value here and abandoned the claim.

LDM,

Interesting that the Kenworthy claim you saw at the claims office that covered the North end of Bluff Spring Mtn probably encompassed the area he identified in his book, The Secretes of the LDM. He pinpoints the location of that covered mine in his book with topo's and photo's. I have examined this spot by binnoculars from the top of Black Top, but have never got over to look at it. The "X" above the mine is clearly visible when I looked at the area.

Roger
Wiz
Expert
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:55 am

Re: Kenworthy's Dig

Post by Wiz »

Interesting that the Kenworthy claim you saw at the claims office that covered the North end of Bluff Spring Mtn probably encompassed the area he identified in his book, The Secretes of the LDM. He pinpoints the location of that covered mine in his book with topo's and photo's. I have examined this spot by binnoculars from the top of Black Top, but have never got over to look at it. The "X" above the mine is clearly visible when I looked at the area.
Hi Roger,
I was right on top of the "X" a few months ago. It looks suspiciously like a couple of natural cracks/crevasses between boulders. It's quite impressive from Black Top, but looks perfectly natural up close. Of course, I don't think he actually said the "X" was artificial, though.

Kenworthy's book also shows a wide ramp leading up there, used for carts, etc. But that "ramp" is about as navigable as the side of a cliff, and didn't show any sign of ever having been usable for cart travel (at least to me).

All that said, there are a lot of rock walls up on that butte that look like they might have been built for concealment or defense. There's also a good-sized rock monument, maybe 4 feet tall.
Roger
Part Timer
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Kenworthy's Mine on Bluff Spring Mtn

Post by Roger »

WIZ,

On page 55 of "Treasure Secrets of the Lost Dutchman", Kenworthy describes the trail up the cliff on the North end of Bluff Spring Mtn as being from 4 to 5 ft wide on most of its length and widening out to 18 ft at the top. This wide area was "a turn around area". I re-read Kenworthy's book and didn't see any mention of the Mexicans using carts on this path. I would bet that they were using mules on this path and not carts - it would be nearly impossible to get a cart this far in the mountains, much less up and down Bluff Spring Mtn. The path is wide enough for mules to pass each other and then be staged and turned around at the top wide area. Mules can get over just about any terrain that a man can travel.

Could you make out any evidence of mining in the area that Kenworthy flagged as to the ladder ledges cut in the face of the bluff or the filled in oval pit about 1/2 way down the bluff?

The more important thing Chuck describes in this book is the "caverna con casa" that is across La Barge from this mine location. On page 93 he describes the interior of the cave as having a letter "P" and "G" cut into the wall some distance apart and a large quantity of water/food jugs and mining equipment placed below each. Would indicate that the Peraltas and the Gonzales kept their equipment and food stocks separated. The cave also contained chairs, tables, racks, posts and shelves, ropes, candles and pots within pots that had signs of fire blackened burns. Outside on top of the outcrop with the cave in it is a large level area that had fireplaces and a semicircle of arranged rocks. Chuck says he resealed the cave as when it was found.

If one wanted to prove that there were Spanish/Mexican miners in the Supers prior to the Gadsden Treaty, having an archaeologist open this cave and date its contents should prove it.

Roger
Gregory E. Davis
Part Timer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:19 am
Location: Tempe, Arizona

Post by Gregory E. Davis »

I visited Kenworthy's site shortly after he left the area many years ago. I found a lot of mine dump rubble but no shaft or tunnel. I later ask Kenworthy about there being no mine site and he replied that he had "all the diggings blown shut". Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
Wiz
Expert
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:55 am

Post by Wiz »

Roger

I did scramble all over the mountainside across the canyon from the butte looking for the cave. Found zilch. Several promising locations among the big boulders, but when you would get up to them they were nothing. It's certainly possible that I just missed it. I also didn't see any evidence of mining at the butte, at least none that was apparent to my untrained eye. The underbrush was very thick, though.

Greg,
Are you talking about the Kenworthy site by the "X" north of Bluff Spring Mtn? You saw mining rubble there? That would sure lend credence to the "I just missed it" theory.
Post Reply