Adolph Ruth, the mystery.

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LDM
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Search for Ruth.

Post by LDM »

LDM
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Post by zentull »

By the accounts presented by Jim Bark and Erwin Ruth (which are the two principle sources we reference) it is easy to see that there was a solid effort made and that the search parties by all appearances put in a very intense search during the initial 2 months. These groups were returning in the summer heat half dead and it seems as soon as one came in another went out. Barkley and Adams spent more than considerable time involved under some very intolerable circumstances.

This seems to point to Tex Barkley having less knowledge initially than people would guess at. Tex knew more than we will ever know, but I believe it wasn't initially that way. I also believe Jeff Adams knew what Barkley knew. Remember both Tex and Jeff Adams believed Ruth had been shot and moved. That wasn't what everyone believed then or now for that matter.

You would think the backstory has a lot to do with the Ruth case being prominent, but Cravey, Clapp and Walter Gassler are even possibly more intriguing.

There are some good resources on the searches, but you would think someone would have done a few interviews with some of the searchers after the fact. If this was not done, than I doubt the medias interpretation of the prominence of the search. Erwin Ruth created much of the fervor and helped create that historical perspective.
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Post by LDM »

LDM
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Joe Ribaudo
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Hints

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

The last two post give a pretty good hint as to why we are still discussing the Adolph Ruth murder, and what took place afterwards.

Just my opinion, don't mean to step on anyone's toes. :)

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Post by zentull »

" From the evidence discovered by Barkley and Adams it would appear that father met death, many torturous miles of rock and canyon from his mountain camp. It was in a jumble of huge rock masses and deep pits that were turned into a veritable inferno by the blazing desert sun that they found traces of, possibly my Father "

Erwin Ruth

This discovery I believe was made during the summer search, which could pertain to statements made by Barkley to Gassler. The manuscript ends during the announcement of the December search party to be led by Brownie Holmes. This statement probably was made during the initial search, possibly prior or right after the July 31st date when the search was suspended.

I do not know what this means, but it is a very provocative statement.
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Names

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Matthew,

"the result is to attack and call the person a liar and every vile name they can think of."

Sounds like what has been going on for years....right here. Man only needs to read the posts. I used to have a very short list of "vile names", before learning a few new ones from folks on this Forum.

Some folks style of calling others names is a littlle more genteel and round-about. Others come right out and call a spade a spade without pussy-footing around.

Other than a bunch of posts that have been deleated, the history of this Forum is there to read. Unless you deleat your posts.....there is nowhere to hide the truth.

The truth on the death of Adolph Ruth is also there to be read, it's just a lot harder to find. The fact that you boys won't address any of my posts will not change the truth......one iota. Actually I do like Peter's "plan",
I hope you will all stick with it. :lol:

Take care,

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Post by zentull »

What is unfortunate is that while Erwins grief is understandable, it is his thoughts playing against Barkley, Holmes, McFadden, Adams and a host of veterans involved. If Barkley is such a killer he would have taken out Storm, Gassler and a dozen others. After reading so many accounts of Barkley between the books and newspapers, he appears to have some strong backbone, but was not violent in character. I could not imagine spending this summer searching for one of you, even with the modern convieniences that were not available back then.

Next thing we know old Tex will be hanging at the bar in a ladies dress talking about all the people he murdered in the mountains..........
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Another Story

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Zen,

Just as interesting is what Sims Ely wrote. Was it a mistake or did he not get the word?

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?

Post by TGH »

:?:
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?

Post by TGH »

:?:
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Post by zentull »

Ely being closer to the actual timeline makes a number of mentionings that are just left in the shadows. Little things getting left out can be important. In the Ruth situation the tale takes precedence over the actual story.

LDM made an excellent point concerning Gassler, We still are wondering what happened and what was he looking for on that last trip. LDM had a personal interest in wanting to know. There was very little conspiracy involved, it was very straight forward in wanting to understand what happened. In relation to the Ruth story the same questions are asked. No one knows exactly the reason or purpose or even what he was looking for.
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Speculation

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Zen,

"After reading so many accounts of Barkley between the books and newspapers, he appears to have some strong backbone, but was not violent in character. I could not imagine spending this summer searching for one of you, even with the modern convieniences that were not available back then."

Speculation that Tex was, somehow, involve has been around since the event.

As for him leading the search, you could also say he was making sure no one found the body.......until he was ready for it to be found.

"Not violent"? Story is that he said he would kill a man for walking in the wrong place. That's a violent man by anyone's standard, even for those days.

Just my opinion. Don't mean to step on anyone's toes here.

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Post by zentull »

Yesterday my son was released out the wrong gate at school and I found my 5 year old wandering around crying looking for me. I barely contained my anger. Took hours before I was settled down to a tolerable level. My wife had to restrain me from kicking the crap out of the principle. Am I a violent person? I hope not..........but not knowing the incident I am sure there are a few parents who would never cross me after my performance yesterday.

Barry Storm and others only relate one side, I think theres a habit to push the dumb redneck until he pushes back. I am sure that Tex had all his buttons pushed by a few idiots. I believe there were plenty of good reasons for Barkley to push back. I think we forget the context and the reasons and even the personalities that may have been involved. Some of what was posted in this topic may have been ample reason for Tex to run someone, I think some of us would have been taught a lesson in humility.
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Ruth

Post by eldorado »

Takes time to sell that much gold.

Then Ruth`s body can be safely"found".

One crime at a time.


E.
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Tex Barkley

Post by LDM »

LDM
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Perhaps

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Zen,

Perhaps, but there is a slight difference between "kicking the crap out of the principle" and killing someone for being on public land.

I don't doubt that we may not have the whole picture here, but there still seems to be some problems with the entire Ruth story as it relates to those who were directly involved with the affair.

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Post by zentull »

My heroes may not of been Cowboys, but I took a lot of grief being raised around them. My Arizona Grandpa pretty much adopted me in and I could write 2 entirely different books about the man. He would work my sorry butt into the ground. He was a Texas cattleman who settled down in Arizona in his later years. They all come from from very similar cloth.

I took a few bullets out on the range for tresspassing on what was public land. Guess those guys thought they owned everything. At least they were directed at the vehicle instead of me. I don't think it happens anymore, but there are a few old boys settled around the old ghost towns that are a little threatening in their own cuddly way.

I guess the other question that is answered, but not clearly, is did Tex and Jeff Adams figure out exactly what Ruth was looking for ? Neither became Howard Hughes shortly thereafter, so one would have to assume they did not figure it all out or Ruth was wrong.
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No Money

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

I would think you are correct and they did not find anything of value. On the other hand, folks have been know to hide their wealth in some pretty strange places. Not everyone has their wealth invested or in banks.

I know some folks who have a bit of gold hidden in their back yards, so to speak, even as we speak. :lol: No need for anyone to come dig up my back yard, as there a'int no gold buried out there. :)

Seems like the real question for us is not who killed Adolph Ruth, but where was he killed, why was he moved and what did he find? At this late date, the who makes no difference, unless they turned up rich.

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Post by TC ASKEY »

Gene---- If you know any details to this story, I would like to hear it.
TERRY - Update your email address. Current one is dead and you will not receive notices.
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Post by djui5 »

Who killed him would be of great importance, as we could follow their trail after the murders to see if they offloaded any gold/etc/whatever.
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Follow The Money

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

I admit that's a possibility, but the killers did not necessarily find anything of value, just because they had the map. Remember Gene's celler find.
Ruth may very well have had information that was only recorded in his head.

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Post by zentull »

Joe,

If we go by actual accounts of real threats to actually shoot at someone with the intent to kill them, the most verifiable one was admitted by John Clemenson. Sure its probably just a romantic addition for the story, but that is only one of the people he took target practice at. The mysterious Mr X would be another. While we can try to figure out what he was talking about there is only a couple of things he got right concerning Ruth. Those were very interesting.

However Tex may have had enough of him. Of course he didn't pop a round off at Tex that we know of. That may have got him kicked off Peters Mesa. You never know.
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Not The Same

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

Storm's story of the man he calls "John Vall" seems like a bit of a tale to me, but assuming it's true, I don't think you can equate that with a threat of cold blooded murder.

Now "Mr. X" shot into Storm's camp, according to the story and they only returned fire. Seems like the right thing to do, at least to me.

On the other hand, had he threatened to shoot Abe Reid off his horse, just for riding into his camp, we would be talking apples to apples. :lol:

Take care,

Joe
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Post by zentull »

Joe,

I believe he was sitting there with gun in hand to greet Abe Reid........
How many times have you pulled a gun on someone in the Superstitions?
A gun in hand is a threat.

Never have seen a single picture of Tex with one. I am sure a carried something, probably a rifle, but again every picture of his horse does not show it. So he was either lefthanded or cross drew it from the left side of the horse. Of course never saw a picture of him smiling either.
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Draw?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

"I believe he was sitting there with gun in hand to greet Abe Reid........
How many times have you pulled a gun on someone in the Superstitions?
A gun in hand is a threat."

Don't remember Storm having his gun in hand, but I don't remember what I had for breakfast either. :lol:

That would be a "NEVER", but I have been in situations where I was glad
I had a .45 close at hand. "A gun in hand" is also a warning.....(Don't do anything stupid!) Perhaps that's a thin line. :)

Joe Ribaudo
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