Adolph Ruth, the mystery.

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
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Ronnie Kelso
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Five Cacti

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Willow Springs Mine

Post by novice »

Here I go again trying to marry two stories.

In the John Chuning thread, Joe wrote;
The "1901" mine is very close to the 12 mile mark that Bark mentioned. It is now sealed and has a monument in front of it. My guess is that it is as empty as the "Paint" mine.
Joe was referring, to the mine referenced in the 1901 Florence Tribune article, "Lost Dutchman Again". Chuning has found what he believes to be the Lost Dutchman Goldmine..... Chuning discovered old workings consisting of a shaft and tunnel, which he is now cleaning out, a short distance west of the Needle.

In this thread, Eldorado wrote;
Ruth was going to a covered Peralta Mine in West Boulder Canyon, high up on the east side.
Joe replied in a couple of posts;
That is exactly right ....... Yes, the mine is there.....no, it is not the LDM........... That mine has a modern-day claim marker....... It is south of Willow Spring
Willow Springs is about 1 1/4 miles west from Weaver's Needle (as the crow flies)

(A short distance west of Weaver's Needle, a monument in front of it, Eldorado calls it covered and Joe uses the term sealed, and empty?) It sounds to me like they're talking about the same mine?

If the Eldorado and Joe scenario is correct, this would mean that Ruth was looking for an early mine that Chuning found in 1901 and Ruth was revisiting it in 1931?

Straighten me out on this if I'm off base!

Garry
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Willow Springs

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LDM
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?

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:?:
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Mines in west Boulder.

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LDM
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?

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:?:
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West Boulder canyon terrain.

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LDM
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Post by djui5 »

Is it possible some hermit/miner hiding in one of those caves saw Ruth and killed him?

*warning, theory ahead*

Maybe Tex, Purnell, and Keenan knew if they dropped Ruth into Willow Springs, he would venture off to be killed by some hermit or miner living in one of those caves. Purnell and Keenan dropped Ruth off, waited for him to be killed, and went back to retreive his maps.
/theory


Just a thought.
Randy Wright
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?

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:?:
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Post by djui5 »

If this true then how did Ruth's Map in up in the Antigua Tunnels?
Ronnie

It's not true. Do you really believe that Purnell "found" that map after innocently dropping off Ruth and leaving the range?

It's almost laughable that they would have claimed to have found the maps later. That's their alibi :lol:
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Ruth

Post by eldorado »

Mr. Askey:

The way these things always end. 3 floaters and a kings`s ransom in gold bars being sold.

Novice:

What Ruth was after was in a gold mine. A barren mine. A old mine.

Wonder why Saint Tex would be carrying a headless old gentleman around the Superstitions? Just on the surface does seem a bit odd.


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Post by djui5 »

Ruth was looking for a gold mine full of gold bars? An abandoned mine, allready worked out, used for storage of gold bars?
Randy Wright
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Joe Ribaudo
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Wow!

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

Reading these posts have really put a smile on my face. :lol:

So, Ray Howland was living in a cave on the east side of West Boulder.....
in the middle of summer. He and Ruth "may" have pal'd around for awhile looking at old prospect holes. :)

The mine we have been talking about is not the John Chunning mine, which, as a good many people know, is up "around" Second Water. I believe someone mentioned that fact.

Never tell all you know to someone you don't know. The ratio of good guys to scum in the LDM field, is questionable. Never know when your stuff will end up in the wrong hands. I may have mislead a few people on that detail. :lol:

Consider this: It is likely, actually way more than likely, that Ruth and his two "guides" rode out of the Quarter Circle U and went right up "over the mountain". It was possible to ride up onto the ridge that seperates East and West Boulder Canyons. My uncle told me that around 25 years ago. He had done it, along with Tracy Hawkins and Ernie Provence. It was also possible to ride off of that ridge down into West Boulder just below Willow Spring. Tracy is the only one left alive who can confirm what I have just written, at least from that trio.

Don't believe any of them ever rode a burro......anywhere.

On that trail, you will find Ruth's description of his ride. What Ruth saw as they rode the top of that ridge, before droping down into West Boulder, is what he was looking for. Don't believe the maps we have seen are what the old man was relying on. He had more. That's just this stupid old timer's opinion.

Chances are, he pointed out what he saw to the two new "friends" who were with him. They put him at Willow Spring for his camp, came back later and said howdy. While visiting, Ruth "gave" them the map that they later "found".

Now all of this is pretty simple, really, but as a number of folks have pointed out, I am a simple guy. Don't know much, but I was lucky enough to have John Chunning's mine pointed out to me by a friend. Don't have as many friends as some here, but the ones I have......know where stuff is.

Now before everyone jumps in here and tells me it's impossible to make that ride, you might want to consider that you will be calling one of the last (real) old timers that he is full of crap. What he could do, is ride where most of us would hesitate to walk.

Greg Davis can confirm that it's possible to ride in places where it looks downright impossible. Don't really know if he's a "hand" around stock, but do know some of the places he has been guided on horseback.

Ruth found what he was looking for, and he was killed for it.

Joe Ribaudo
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Right Again

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

Mr. E is correct again. The only thing is........that empty mine is one of four. The question now is: Are the others empty as well? :?

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Adolph Ruth mystery.

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LDM
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Joe Ribaudo
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True Words

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Matthew,

What you say is very true.

The reason you started this thread, and I started mine, is because there are many things about the Adolph Ruth story that don't make sense. The only thing we can do, is accept the story as told all these years, or speculate as to what might have happened instead.

There is just a bit more than speculation in my story. When considered from start to finish, another view of what might have happened arises.
The question is, is it possible that it happened this way.

Those who have made that ride, and those who might take the time to look at where the Quarter Circle U Ranch is on a Topo, and imagine riding over the ridge into West Boulder from there, will say yes, it could be what happened.

It is not difficult to figure out why the story might have been changed by those who were part of it. To this day, there are folks who knew those people who swear their stories were true. No one alive knows the facts.
They may very well be swearing to a lie.

Adolph Ruth knew what he was looking for, and he found it.

For anyone who believes that Ray Howland was living in a cave on that ridge in June and hiking down to Willow Spring for water, they will have no problem believing my story.

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by Ronnie Kelso »

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Treasure

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mr. Kelso,

You could be right, but Ruth did not find his earthly treasure on the ride to Willow Spring either. What he did find were the things that told him he was close.....very close.

Joe Ribaudo
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Rhyolite, Dacite and Gold

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mathew,

"Chunning wasn't the first to find the mine(s) in that area in 1901 and hundreds of prospectors have crawled all over both sides of that ridge for the past 110 years. Mining claims blanketed both sides of the ridge from the very early days. Nothing of any real value was ever found up there as the ridge is a flow of Rhyolite and Dacite several hundred feet thick."

Not sure that John Chunning actually did find anything on that ridge, but assume you must have gotten the information from a good informant. :lol:

In your statement above, you give the impression that nothing of value could be found in a "flow of Rhyolit and Dacite". While I know almost nothing about rocks, I do know that giving that impression is dead wrong.

Don't want to step on your toes, but perhaps you should rethink that statement. I will wait a bit for your reply....before providing a source or sources to prove just the opposite of what you have said.

All this talk about that ridge, and Peter's talking about the Spanish taking pack animals over Heiroglyphic has exposed your friend. You folks need to stop trying to be so clever, and just go back to what you do best.....

Not every bit of information your friend is telling you, or showing you, is the completete story. We have found the other cave. Like Harry's cave, it is empty now. The other two are all that is left.

Joe Ribaudo
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Sources

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

I have a very good friend who has located gold mines for large mining concerns in South America. He knows how to find stuff. Before anyone makes any claims on a public forum, the really should check their "facts".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mineralization defined to date on the property, by two very limited
prospecting programs in 1979 and then 1987-1988, have identified
multiple narrow epithermal veins in outcrop, with assay values up to
878.8 gpt Ag and 0.3 gpt Au. Of particular interest to Endurance was
the discovery, in 1988, of a quartz-sulphide float boulder at the toe
of a small glacier on the property, from which a single sample returned
an assay of 44.5 gpt Au and 14,356 gpt Ag (1.42 ounces per ton gold and
458.7 ounces per ton silver). That discovery has not been followed up.
Most small glaciers in the northwestern portion of the province have
receded significantly over the previous 18 years, and the source of
this extremely high grade float will be an exploration priority for the
company.

The claim group covers the southern margin of the Bennett Lake Caldera,
an Eocene age volcanic cauldron that is comprised primarily of rhyolite
to dacite ash flow tuffs, with lesser dacite to andesite lavas.
Geologically, this environment is prospective for large epithermal
gold-silver deposits. As mentioned, the Mt. Skukum gold mine to the
north produced 77,790 ounces of gold from 233,440 tonnes of ore between
1986 and 1988, and is currently being evaluated by Tagish Lake Gold
Corp.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Occoneechee Mountain Geology
The Carolina Slate Belt consists of heated and deformed volcanic rocks. It was the site of a series of oceanic volcanic islands about 650-550 million years ago. This belt is well known for its numerous abandoned gold mines and prospects and led the nation in gold production before the California Gold Rush of 1849. Metamorphic Rocks
Rhyolite Dacite Andesite
Pyrophyllite
75 % SiO2 64 % SiO2 56 % SiO2

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The El Peñón Exploration Team began 2004 with a bang, discovering the completely blind Dorada Vein system while testing a north-south aligned ridge immediately south of the Cerro Martillo deposit. Drilling to date has identified the new high-grade quartz vein and breccia zone to extend at least 1600 meters along strike and up to 220 meters down dip. The weighted average width and grades are 3.2 m at 12.5 g/tonne Au and 647 g/tonne Ag. The majority of the vein remains open along strike and down dip.

The Dorada structure associated vein system dips 50° to 70° to the east and places hanging wall rhyolite and overlying volcanic tuff and flows in normal fault contact with footwall rhyolite and underlying dacite sill or flow units. Mineral bearing hydrothermal breccias and massive quartz veins are found along the structural zone that is abrupt to over 12 meters wide. Multiple potential ore grade vein and breccia zones are found between 7303000N and 7303500N as depicted in cross section 7303360N . Important intercepts are also found in the adjacent hanging wall and footwall lithologies as depicted in cross section 7303060N. Click here to view these sections.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Property Specific Info:
The property contains Cretaceous age limestone intruded by upper Cretaceous granodiorite belonging to the Sinaloa batholith. These older rocks are locally overlain by a fine-grained silicic volcanic unit that hosts much of the mineralization. The volcanics have been intruded by numerous phases of granodiorite dikes, dacite porphyry and rhyolite porphyry. The age of the volcanics and younger intrusives is interpreted as being lower Tertiary. Although the granodiorite dikes are intensely altered, mineralization appears to be more related to the dacite and rhyolite porphyries. The property is intersected by numerous regional deep seated fault systems of variable orientation, some of which are important conduits for localizing mineralizing fluids.

Three deposit types have been identified to date:

1. Disseminated and structurally controlled Ag-Au (+Cu, Pb, Zn) in altered rhyolite porphyry
2. High sulfidation, structurally controlled gold in volcanic and dacite porphyry
3. Polymetallic mantos replacements in limestone

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Seems like this is where I crossed the line on the Mescalero thread. Too many facts and sources.

While your little gang will ignore this post, the rest of the members won't care that it was done by Joe Ribaudo. They will be more interested in the truth.

"Gold is where you find it". 8O

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by zentull »

I would doubt there are any living members of those search parties, but there should be some information concerning the areas searched from early to mid summer. Also I would doubt there were no searches prior to the December exploration/search party. There were dozens of individuals involved and where they searched, how they searched and when they searched would be important. While Tex and Jeff Adams spearheaded the searches it would be very interesting to hear from other sources concerning that timeline.

So there must be some information or a few interviews concerning the search party members which would indicate beyond what we know of that 7 month period.
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