Adolph Ruth, the mystery.

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zentull
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Post by zentull »

Greg,

I always wonder if part of the problem concerning the Ruth case is though it was nationally high profile, was it that big a deal to Tex, Brownie and the others or just another guy who had a map who turned up dead ?

There is so much about Ruths case, but so very little concerning the others. Was it just a better story or did it have a better appeal?

As intriguing as it may be to all of us, it may not have seemed much different from so many other similar instances. I do not believe that either Jay Clapp or James Cravey(just to name a couple of recent topics) get the same interest as the Ruth situation.

So are we really giving fair and justifiable opinions due to its popularity on the national and published fronts?
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Post by zentull »

Does anyone have any information on the Ritzel expedition in Trap canyon that was looking for Adolph Ruths hidden camp in 1955 ?
Knun
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OK

Post by Knun »

I would imagine this has already been discussed but here goes.

Ruth went in at First Water packed by the two ex-cons/cowboys/prospectors.

How did they arrive with the stock, supplies, and Ruth at First Water to start the trip?

Ruth doesn't mention anything about a road trip in his letter.

Or did they actually go in from the ranch which is not the offical story?

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This simple post is not ment to offend or belittle anyone. Please provide input in the same light. If anyone finds this post offensive in anyway please provide a PM to discuss the situation off forum. Quite simply, I will respond to any post if I want too. This does not reflect upon any response it's.....just my choice.
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Post by TGH »

:?:
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Knun
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Maybe

Post by Knun »

When looking at the Photos of First Water back then...it wasn't much. Again this is from the two photos I've seen.

As for supplies they could have been brought around in the Model-T but the stock would be another matter.

Did Tex maintain stock at First Water and the Ranch? Who then lived at First Water full time to maintain the Stock?
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Post by djui5 »

I was always under the impression that they packed in from the Barkley ranch.

Nowhere have I heard that anyone spoke if it though. It's a good question for sure.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Familiar Story

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Kevin,

That question does sound a little familiar, believe I may have suggested that Ruth may not have come in from First Water.....quite some time ago.
A careful reading of his letter, suggests another possibility.

Beyond that, reading the accounts of what Barkley did when he got back from Phoenix, leaves out his going to First Water to begin his search. I believe "over the mountain" has a familiar ring to it.

Another possibility is that Ruth was not looking for the LDM at all. He may have wanted everyone to believe that though. As we all know, Ruth was smack dab in the middle of the Harry LaFrance story. Probably just a coincidence.

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What Trail?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

"Just off the top of my head here, but wasnt the Half Circle U in existence back then...the ranch just across First Water creek from the First Water trail split to Garden Valley? Maybe they simply gathered supplies and packed in from there."

Assuming that is a possibility, what would be the most logical way for them to get to Willow Spring?

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Post by TGH »

:?:
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Knun
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Interesting thing

Post by Knun »

One of the interesting things that Ruth discusses in his letter is the fact that his burro slid, stiff legged down hill.

You've walked that trail from First Water. In fact, you've walked the other trail as well!

I would have to ask you....where would a little old burro with a little old man on his back slide stiff legged downhill?

Another question would be where does a five mile circle put you from Ruth's camp?
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First Water Ranch.

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LDM
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Post by TGH »

:?:
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Burros

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Actually, all three rode "burros" and packed their gear on two more burros. That makes a total of five burros. While that may not sound strange to you, I have not seen many "cowboys" who would be caught dead on a burro.

They were, of course, "cowboy/prospectors".

Knowing what trails folks have walked is never a bad thing.

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Stiff-Legged

Post by Knun »

This is from Adolph's letter of June 13, 1931:

"It sure was rough, sometimes straight up and down. Several times my burro slid down Stiff-legged and from six to ten feet."

Also:

"The distance we made was between six and seven miles."

One of the reasons I raised the question was "who was at First Water when Ruth went in?"

If Ruth went in from First Water then stock was there and was fed/maintained by someone.

Or did were they maintained out of the "U?" Which doesn't seem feasible in '31.
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First Water to Willow Springs

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LDM
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Peralta?

Post by Knun »

Could they have gone down Peralta? It would have been interesting and ironic! lol

Was Peralta trail, Peralta trail back then? Somehow I think the Dons named that Peralta.

As for maintaining stock at first water...any thoughts?
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:?:
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LDM
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why Willow Springs ?

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LDM
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Post by TGH »

:?:
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Post by djui5 »

I dont believe the Mexicans entered the mountains thru the south side of the range,
P

I think this would depend on where their final destination was. Going in through the South side could make sense, depending on where you are going.

:)
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:?:
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Joe Ribaudo
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South Side

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

Don't know why Peter left out Hog Canyon or added Hieroglyphic in to his laundry list, but many people entered the mountains on the southwest end.

Julia Thomas made her first attempt, with Rhiney, to enter the mountains at Hog Canyon.

When Brownie Holmes decided to make a systematic search for the LDM, he started from the same area, just from the top. With all the information he had, why would he start there?

Seems like a few others thought the same thing.

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P.C.

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

One of those "few", was P.C. Bicknell. Ruth had the directions from Bicknell's article with him. By a strange coincidence, Bicknell also searched the Superstitions from Willow Spring. Were they looking for the LDM, or something else? If Ruth was placed at Willow Spring by chance, did the same chance fate lead Bicknell to the same place?

My first trip over Tim's Saddle was over thirty years ago. The three of us were carrying heavy packs and Chuck carried his .45 as well as an M-1 Garand. It would not have been a problem to ride it then. I have heard that is not true today.

Many of the trails from the past would not be possible to ride today. Right at Parker Pass there is a small ridge on the left side of the trail. In the old days, you would go a short distance along that ridge and hit a very rugged trail that would cut off some distance as you made your way toward Boulder Basin. It is practically non-existant today, but I rode it not to many years ago. It has some very steep drops, but not what Ruth described.

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Post by zentull »

I do not believe it would be very productive to even run cattle through Peralta (Willow) Canyon today.

The conspiracy theories fall apart a bit that Ruth let them put him in an inconvienient area, murdered him and then stuck his body by Black Top Mesa. Much simpler to toss him off a cliff in that very area instead. From many accounts of the search it also appears the search parties concentrated in that area for some time before spreading out. I have seen very little in the search accounts that lead me to believe they searched east of the needle as much until after the western areas had been exhausted. Jeff Adams and Tex Barkley put in some very serious time in the summer heat and it appears they were the 2 constants in the search.

More curious is that upon finding Ruths skull the search expedition continues on and makes camp that evening instead of heading back after finding the skull. There was even a discussion over this in fact.

Which leads me to another unanswered question....how prominent was Ruths disappearance? What was the story? The tale of a lost man looking for a fabled lost mine or the Very real Mr Ruth gone missing? It was perhaps the most prominent story of the Superstitions in the greater media, but what does that really mean in the big picture?
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Recently?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

"In fact close examination of the canyons near the Massacre Grounds has turned up some interesting evidence recently....old trails leading into the interior of the mountains, quartz not native to the area, and some other interesting tid bits."

You are a little late here, Peter. Those "old trails" are not something that has only been discovered "recently". Hopefully that old arrastra has not been destroyed by folks looking for "tid bits".

Joe Ribaudo
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