Jim Bark and the Deering/Chuning Timeline

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
novice
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Robert Bowen

Post by novice »

HELP!

I'm trying to run down the Robert Bowen who shows up in the Chuning story as foreman at the Silver King. In the early 1885-1895 timeframe there "seems?" to be TWO Robert Bowens in the area. One was a prominent individual while our Robert Bowen appears to have married, had a family, and stayed in the area as a cattle dealer and farmer. The confusion arising for me is, was there more than one individual and if so which individual was involved with the Tempe Hotel?

Articles from the Arizona Republican;

June 3, 1891 - Brown and Bowen proprietors of the Tempe Hotel [Ad]

August 9, 1891 - The Tempe Hotel succeeded in securing the services of Jake Politzer and Miss Alice Vial to help them discharge their duties while entertaining the Kansas visitors. These young people are ever anxious and willing to do all in their power to entertain the guests of the house. These points backed by the goodness and hospitality of Mr. and Mrs. Bowen make the Tempe Hotel a most desirous place to stop. [Kansas Colonist thinking of moving to Arizona]

May 3, 1893 - Robert Bowen, Proprietor of the Tempe Hotel (Want Ads) Sets First Class Table and has pleasant rooms.
May 3, 1893 - Tempe Hotel, Smith and Powell, Proprietors (Corner of Fourth Street and Mill Avenue)[Ad]

Robert Bowen had married in Pinal County, Arizona and by 1893, had 3 children. The above articles led me to believe that perhaps the hotel was first owned or operated by Brown and Bowen and then later Smith and Powell took over the management but Robert Bowen and his wife were running it? They later moved to Mesa and Robert was listed as a cattle dealer in the 1900 census. I would have assumed that this was our Robert involved with the hotel but I ran across another reference on the web.

From Wyoming Trails and Tails we find the following - TOM HORN

Following the Apache wars, Horn worked in the area of Pleasant Valley, Ariz. (Now known as "Young."), to the northwest of the San Carlos Reservation. There, he worked on a ranch owned by Tempe hotelier Robert Bowen. In August 1888, Horn participated with Glenn Reynolds in a lynching of three suspected rustlers. In November, Reynolds was elected as sheriff of Gila County. Horn was appointed as a deputy. Reynolds, himself, was killed in a shootout with the former Apache Scout Haskay-bay-nay-natyl, the Apache Kid. The Kid was so-called allegedly because the whites had difficulty pronouncing his name. In the shootout, another deputy, W. A. "Hunky Dory" Holmes died of an apparent heart attack. The Apache Kid escaped, his fate unknown to this day. Various sightings and reports of the Kid's death were received as late as the 1920's. It is commonly believed that Horn involved himself in theGraham-Tewksbury feud (the "Pleasant Valley War") and that Horn, himself, may have been a precipitating cause with the killing of Mart Blevins in 1887.

I don't know whether the writer simply got two Robert Bowens mixed up and made a mistake or if it was the prominent one who owned the Tempe Hotel?

Below are some additional references to the prominent Robert Bowen from the Arizona Republican.

May 12, 1893 - Robert Bowen has returned from San Diego to look after his extensive cattle interests. He says business is fair on the coast and expresses himself in glowing terms at the future outlook of this valley.

May 26, 1893 - A GOLDEN KIDNEY
Surveying a mining town that promises to be a Second Leadville
The Superstition mines. twenty-two miles east of Mesa, are today attracting greater attention than any other mines in the territory. The camp is not a new one as Hakes, Marsh, Jones, Truman and Bowen have for some months been developing prospects..........

Great excitement prevails and a town site is being surveyed. A store will be started as soon as the building can be erected, and a saloon is already on the ground. Claim after claim is being located and new finds being reported daily

These mines are not very far from the Silver King, and promises to be far richer than that noted mine, ever was while the fact that these are gold claims makes them very desirable property. Within ten days a full fledged town will be started. Robert Bowen contemplates moving eight houses from the Silver King, while numerous other buildings will go up as rapidly as men and money can build them.


June 7, 1893 - Robert Bowen, Arizona's cattle king, paid Mesa a pleasant visit yesterday on business.

June 21, 1893 - Movement of Prominent Persons; Robert Bowen of San Diego was registered yesterday at the Tempe Hotel.

If anyone can help by sorting this out, I would certainly appreciate it!

Garry
Roger
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Chuning's Search Begins

Post by Roger »

Novice,

A little slow in getting back on your question regarding my source for when Chuning began to search for Deering's mine. Thomas Glover writes on Page 94 of his book, The LDM of Jacob Waltz, the following:

"John Chuning finished telling Jim Bark his story and said that he thought he would go over the mountin for one trip to see if he could find Deering's mine. Thas was in 1892."

He also wrote on Page 96:

"...for it was only after hearing of the Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz, seven plus years after Deering's death, that he was realized the significance of Deering's story, and decided to act." (This is the exact wording from the book).

Deering died in 1885 and seven years later would be 1892. One could streach the term "seven plus years" to maybe a year later, but would suspect it was meant to mean seven years plus some months. Glover was very definite in his date on Page 94.

Roger
Joe Ribaudo
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Will The Real Robert Bowen.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

The record of "Robert Bowen" does seem a little convoluted.

While there were probably a number of men by the same name pounding about, there are a few "for sures".

Our "perp" came from England around 1866. He was born around 1848/49 and, as you mentioned, married Elizabeth Oehrlein in Arizona on Apr. 16, 1887. They had three children, Susie, Robert and Thomas. They may have had more children, but I doubt it.

His home in 1880 is: Silver King, Pinal, Arizona and his occupation is:
Bartender. In 1900 the family is living in: Township 1, Maricopa, Arizona Territory. His occupation is listed as: Cattle Dealer.

The Robert Bowen who is in town from San Diego, is the same Bowen as our bartender. It seems likely he was visiting family, but there is a large article about how excited he found the citizens of San Diego over the prospect of a rail line connecting Phoenix with that city.

Considering the article you found, naming others as the owners of the Tempe Hotel, one wonders if he may have sold the hotel in may of 1893.

The question remains, was this the same Robert Bowen who is named as "the foreman" in the Dec. 17, 1881 piece from the Pinal Drill? In the same article it is stated that: "During it's entire existence, James M. Barney has been it's manager and Aaron Mason it's superintendent. Within the last six months, A.J. Doran has been acting Superintendent."

Quote from "The Lost Dutchman Mine" by, Sims Ely: "Mason said, 'Mr. Bowen here is superintendent of the mine. Talk to him. Possibly he can hire you as muckers until you learn to be miners. Or, if there's no work for you at the mine just now, Mr Doran here-he's my assistant-may find work for you around the mill.'" :?

Little change of history going on it seems. Probably not all that important, but interesting. :)

Our "Bartender" in 1880 is the same man as our "Cattle Dealer" in 1900.
Was he also working as a "foreman" at the Silver King in 1881? By 1887-88 he was the owner of a cattle ranch in Pleasant Valley, AZ and at the same time the owner of the Tempe Hotel. 8O

Have a good time with this one, Garry. It should keep you up nights. :lol:

Take care,

Joe
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Will the real Robert Bowen Please Stand up

Post by novice »

WOW Joe, I'm impressed! For a couple of hours research you did "real" good! I think I'm on the same page as you with "most" of your observations.

One reason I was interested in the Tempe Hotel was the advertisements beginning in 1891 noting the proprietors were Brown and Bowen. Jim Bark's Jesse Brown (Saloon owner in Pinal when Deering shows up with the ore) and Sims Ely's reference to Dan Brown. I haven't spent much time on Brown(s) but what little I have, I have come up empty.

I believe there were only "two" Robert Bowens. Don't confuse me any worse!

I had assumed that the bartender in the saloon at the Silver King (1880 census) was the same Robert Bowen as the foreman of the Silver King referred to in the Pinal Drill article in 1881. You have suggested that perhaps this is incorrect and the Silver King foreman may have been the Arizona Cattle King and one of the founders of Goldfield? I thought the jump from bartender to foreman in a little over a year was impressive, but I also found it difficult to believe that the foreman of the Silver King Mine had succeeded in buying hotels and owned a ranch in the area of Pleasant Valley, Arizona by 1888? (Same questions you raised?)

One item in the 1880 census relates that Robert Bowen, bartender, was out of work for three months during the census year. It's interesting to speculate that this might correspond to the three months spent searching for a lost mine in the Superstitions by the Robert Bowen in the article Roger shared. (Same time frame.)

Roger, you indicated that the reference to Robert Bowen searching for a lost mine was part of a larger article. Is there anything else in the article that might possibly shed some additional light? Was this the rich guy telling the story?

Robert and Elizabeth Bowen moved to Mesa in 1897 and they did have another child, Ruth, born about 1903.

Another reference in the Arizona Republican apparently referring to the family of Robert and Elizabeth in Mesa; Robert is now working for the Electric Light Company.

September 14, 1904 - STRUCK BY LIGHTNING – During the storm of Monday evening there was one house in the city struck by lightning and pretty badly damaged. Fortunately though it was not fired and there chanced to be nobody home to be injured by the shock.
The house is a brick structure in Montgomery's addition on Montezuma Ave. near Sherman Street and is rented by R. J. Bowen. Mr. Bowen's family happens to be away on vacation at this time and he is a night engineer at the electric light plant so he was also away from home. All of the windows were broken, the chimney and part of the roof were torn away and the tin around the chimney where it passes through the roof was melted.


Robert was still alive in 1906 but by the 1910 Census, Elizabeth was a widow. The oldest daughter Susie had apparently also died. Elizabeth stated she was the mother of five children and three were living.

Joe, the only issue I might take with your post is the comment, "The Robert Bowen who is in town from San Diego (1893), is the same Bowen as our bartender." I believe this is most likely the "rich" Bowen?

Thanks to you and Roger for the help,

Garry
Joe Ribaudo
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Same....Same.

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

Our bartender and our cattle dealer were both born in England, where most Bowens came from, and were both born "abt" 1848/49. Going from bartender to hotel-tender :) does not seem that much of a stretch.

The leap to "cattle dealer" seems a bit more difficult.

Take care,

Joe
armchair
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Robert Bowen

Post by armchair »

Bowen did make some money off his gold strike:

July 20, 1893 (AZ REP) - Superstition mine No. 1 owned by Truman, Jones, Bowen, abd two others, has been bonded at $35,000 by Hon. T. E. Farah of Vulture...

Maybe the San Diego cattle ranch was family money:

Janaury 6, 1897 (AZ REP) - Robert Bowen of Tempe returned yesterday morning from a visit with his family in San Diego.
Roger
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Robert Bowen's Search for the Two Soilders Mine

Post by Roger »

Novice,

The June 27, 1893, article in the Arizona Daily Star had no additional info on Bowen and his search for the Two Soilders mine. If you want to get a consolidated collection of early newspaper articles on the LDM, the Superstition Mtn Historical Society published a set of them entitled "Early Newpaper Atritcles of The Superstition Mtns and The Lost Dutchman Gold Mine" in 1992. Greg Davis was the compiler. I don't know if it is still for sale, but you might check the SMHS Museum and see. Their web site is at:

http://superstitionmountainmuseum.org/

The phamplet was 48 pages and contained over a hundred newspaper clippings.

Roger
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Bonding

Post by Knun »

Be careful when trying to equate the "bonding" of a mine with money.

Simplistically, the bonding of a mine was simply a personal insurance policy a private citizen(s) provided to a claim holder which more often than not simply provided legitamacy to the claim.

This was to allow for the "mine" to be financed by investors.

This was after the "dig a hole and sell the hole" period of the 1870's.

Something, by the way, Waltz may have been involved in up north during that time frame.

I learned this from LDM a few years back concerning a certain "Holmes" mine. Thanks again LDM!
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Bonding

Post by armchair »

Khun,

Thanks for that differentiation, but it has always appeared to me that once bonding occurred the money started flowing for the development of the mine, and some of that flowed to the claimant.

Given the location, I think Bowen made a chunk of change on this claim.

I'm trying to understand the Holmes comment, are you referring to the onyx mine or some other? In the case of the onyx mine Holmes gets bonded by Aaron Mason at the same time that activity on the mine goes forward in ernest, all around the time that the "Dutchman" dies. No wonder that the Holmes family fortunes took a bump up at that time.

Shelby
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ONE Robert Bowen

Post by novice »

I "think" Robert Bowen is beginning to come into focus for me and I was out in left field. I now believe that there was only "one" Robert Bowen and all of the references cited are speaking to the Robert Bowen who worked as foreman in the Silver King Mine.

There is a wealth of personal information about our Robert Bowen contained in the Latter Day Saints Ancestral File at their web site. There was a San Diego connection as Elizabeth Oehrlein's father lived there and the first child of Robert and Elizabeth (Barbara) was born there. She died in infancy. San Diego may have been a summer home for the family also as Robert seems to have made numerous trips there?

It all seemed improbable to me, that one Robert Bowen could have come from the apparent humble beginning of prospector (searching for the two soldiers lost mine) and bartender at the Silver King Mine operation at the beginning of the 1880s, to cattle king of Arizona, hotelier, and major mining speculator in the late 1880s and 1890s and then returning to a seemingly mediocre position as night engineer at the electric plant by the mid 1900s.

Robert died May 18, 1909 and is buried in the Mesa Cemetery. His children also remained in the Mesa area until their deaths in the 1950-1970 time period. They boys were farmers and the daughter Ruth was a teacher. Elizabeth, Robert's wife, died August 27, 1930 in Los Animas, Bent County, Colorado according to family researchers. Since Elizabeth shows up in the 1930 census in Maricopa County and all of her children were also in Maricopa County, it is not known why she was in Los Animas, Colorado a few months later?

I believe that all of Robert's siblings, perhaps with the exception of one who died young, came to the United States and his parents remained in England. It's tempting to speculate that the siblings were part of a Mormon immigration. At least one brother Elijah and a sister Harriet were in Utah. Robert's other brother George was in Arizona and he died in 1921 in Globe. He was a miner and prospector.

It is easier to understand how someone could undergo a series of financial set backs that might result in their ending up at a lower economic level. The cattle business was sometimes dependent on the weather and market while mining investments were always speculative.

We might have a window into some of his woes from the Arizona Republican;

November 20, 1894 - The case of the British Columbia Bank against Robert Bowen was tried and submitted

April 7, 1895 - Robert Bowen was denied a new trial and a motion for appeal was given

Whatever the case, Robert was still involved in mining as late as 1898.

Again from the Arizona Republican;

April 11, 1898 - Recent arrivals in Prescott, Mr. Robert Bowen Gold Note. [Gold Note Mine in the Bradshaw Mountains]

On the other hand it is much more difficult to understand the rapid rise in the fortunes of Robert Bowen. How did he rise from foreman of the Silver King Mine at the end of 1881 to cattle king of Arizona in a few short years? If the Tom Horn story is correct it appears that at the very least, Robert owned a hotel and ranch northwest of the San Carlos Reservation by 1888.

A couple of questions that come to mind;

1. Was Robert Bowen still a foreman at the mine when Joe Deering was killed in 1885 or had he moved on to other endeavors. Perhaps the Deering inquest mentions Bowen or someone has other documentation that would place Bowen at the mine at the end of 1885?

2. I still would like to know who the Brown involved with Robert Bowen in the Tempe Hotel was? Could it have been the Jesse Brown that Bark speaks of as employing Joe Deering and John Chuning as bartenders in Pinal?

Garry
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Deering Death

Post by armchair »

Re-reading some old posts I keep seeing the one thing about Deering that is taken as a given is his death in 1885. In doing a search I'm not finding the source for that information. Is there a newspaper account of Deering's death?
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Post by zentull »

Dr Glover has Deerings obituary on page 94 of the "Golden Dream" from the Pinal Drill

He also has the inquest title page of Deerings death on page 95.

Helen Corbin has a handwritten copy of the inquest in the "Bible"

Pretty sure there is sifficient documentation circulating that allows his death date to be considered accurate.
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Doubts?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne and AC,

There seems to be little doubt as to the circumstances surrounding Joe Deerin's death. What is in doubt, I believe, are the events preceeding that death....as told in the stories.

His death is documented, his life is sparce reading.

Joe
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Deering at Silver King

Post by armchair »

Joe,

That sounds like pretty complete documentation alright. Let me go to the other end of the Deering saga, is there any documentation for when Deering first showed up and got the job at the Silver King? I'm wondering if his tenure at the mine might have been several years. If so perhaps Deering's un-named partner was Bowen?
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Documentation??

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

AC,

I saw no reason to repeat the documentation quoted by Zen. I, as well as others on this Forum, have researched the history of the man and the results can be found with a simple search.

There is probably more to be found, so perhaps you should expand or continue your own efforts. We are all working with the same history.

I believe you are correct as to how long Joe Deering worked at the Silver King. That makes the rest of the story somewhat suspect.....at least for me. Believe I voiced that doubt some time ago.

I have the same doubts about the complete truth of the Two Soldier's story. There is some suspicion that Barry Storm concocted the story out of a previous yarn about two soldiers. Someone who knew him well, stated that Storm admitted the hoax to him.

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by Thomas Glover »

Roger,

The information in my book comes from the Bark Notes. Bark knew Chunning and I took his information as reliable as such information gets. What was (and is) of interest to me is the time line. What we know of Deering and his clues comes from Chuning by way of Bark. Yet according to Bark Chuning did not give credence or much credence to Deering's story until many years after Deering died. I wonder just how reliable or accurate Chuning's recollections were of something to which he had not given much significance years before? As a much noted and respected Dutchhunter says: Memory is a fugitive thing.

Would it not perhaps be even more fugitive if one was relating something from years before to which they had not considered all that significant at the time?

Just a passing thought or two...

Thomas
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Post by zentull »

Whatever it was that jarred Chunning into his search, Bark did not reveal it or make it apparent in his telling of the story. That he did not reveal this makes it seem a very solid clue or lead. Since it took Bark a while to make the LDM connection, I would think the initial story Chunning told lacked certain key information. It appears in this instance that Bark did not follow the back story or it was too cold by the time he made the connection. Of course comparing Ely and Bark, there is obvious information that was not included in the notes. Who knows what else lies hidden still?
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If It Ain't Here.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Zen,

Here is the information you are seeking about the Barkley home in Mesa:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: Tex and Gertrude Barkley

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a question about an entry in Helen Corbin's 2002 Book on Page 322. She relates that Walter Gassler talked to Tex Barkley's wife Gertrude who said that she had known Jacob Waltz when she was a little girl.

I do not have access to the "Unadultereted" Gassler Family Notes and I wanted to make sure that Walter's notes were the source of this information.

Also from the 1920 and 1930 census for Tex and Gertrude Barkley, it appears they were living in Mesa (1920 - 202 East First Street) (1930 – 226 East First Street) I had the impression that they always lived on the ranch south of the Superstitions when they were visited by Ruth, Gassler etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is precious little concerning the history of the LDM and the Superstition Mountains that can't be found in this Forum. Those who seek it elswhere are wasting a lot of time.

Take care,

Joe
Joe Ribaudo
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Oops....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sorry....That was Gary (novice's) post.

Joe
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Correction

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

The correct address, as Greg has posted elswhere, is:

229 E. 1st. St.

That's from the original pages of the 1920 Census.

Joe
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Re: Jim Bark and the Deering/Chuning Timeline

Post by novice »

I saw the discussion regarding the John Chuning mines on TNET. This is an old thread (over 10 years old) :) but it does provide background, research and conclusions.

Greg Davis did organize a hike to the Chuning mine and I think that it can be found on here someplace. I do remember them sending Randy Wright into the hole and he ran into a skunk? Maybe an omen?

Someone might take a fresh look and be able to refine the Chuning story in more detail and correct any mistakes.

Good Luck,

Garry
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Re: Jim Bark and the Deering/Chuning Timeline

Post by novice »

Was just browsing some old files on my computer and ran across Kevin Nunemacher’s story about a Hike in 2007 to John Chuning’s Lost Dutchman Mine near the Paint Mine. I’m not sure where this story was originally shared but I don’t believe it was on this site. This particular thread has a lengthy discussion that includes this mine. Some will disagree with my assessment that this is the same mine that a newspaper article where John Chuning claims to have found is the Lost Dutchman Mine.

From the Greg Davis information, On December 6, 1901, John Chuning posted a notice on a mine site. On January 7, 1902 John filed Notice of a Mining Location in Maricopa County, Arizona (Book 11, Page 162). He called it the Worser Gold Mine and he located it as being 7 Miles North of the Needle and 3 1/8 Miles South of the Salt River, About 8 Miles North East of Goldfield. 1 Mile North of the Paint Mine in the Superstition Mountains, Maricopa County, Arizona.

The locators were John Chuning 1/2 interest, James Bark 1/8 interest, Frank Criswell 1/8 interest, Elmer Boody 1/8 interest and Bert Gibson 1/8 interest.

The attached pdf relates the details of that hike. Those involved were Wayne Tuttle, Randy Wright, Greg Davis, Jim Wright and Kevin Nunemacher.
I hope some will enjoy this glimpse at the past. I wish there were more stories like this one.

Also in this thread there was the suggestion of another group hike that I don’t believe ever came to fruition. I would love to know if the trail that John Chuning and Bark built along the Salt River can be identified. Maybe some younger bucks can take up the project?

Gregory E. Davis - Thu May 11, 2006 2:07 pm
Gentlemen; A trip to visit the site of the Bark/Chuning mine on the salt river would make a great outing for the fourm members. The mine is in the vicinity of Mormon Flat Dam/Canyon Lake. I have copies of the claim papers. Tom Kollenborn knows where it is located. This hiking trip is something we can discuss at the LDM Dutch Hunting get-to-gather if anyone is interested in doing the trip. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
OOPS!!!!! I made a mistake. It's Horse Mesa Dam and Apache Lake. Sorry. If we go on the outing we may find the old trail built by Bark and Chunning but the mine is most likely under the Lake. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

azdave, I missed your pm. The information on where the mine was located comes almost entirely from the Bark Notes. I'm sure you are one who is familair with the geography of the Supes and can probably pin point it as close as anyone. If you don't have access to the Bark notes, I can post the description he gives.
Chuning Mine Hike (Kevin).pdf
(1.61 MiB) Downloaded 108 times
Hope this pdf attachment works! (New Feature)

Garry
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