The Holy Grail

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Post Reply
cuzzinjack
Part Timer
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:33 pm

The Holy Grail

Post by cuzzinjack »

Except for Joe, no one is responding to these posts, but a there seems to be a core of people reading……. Hopefully, this post will generate some comments…….

The arguable “Holy Grail” of maps for Lost Dutchman or Peralta Mines searchers is the “Peralta-Fish” map. A photo of one version of this map is shown in Dr. Glover’s excellent book, “Treasure Tales of the Superstitions”. Linda Peralta is cited as the origin of the map. At first appearance, this must be the purest version in existence.

But, there is another version of the Peralta-Fish map that was copied by Tom Kollenborn and is shown in “Treasure Maps of the Superstitions” dated 1985. It is not known where he copied this from. This is it:

Image

There are some differences between the two maps that would indicate that the Kollenborn version is the more accurate:

• The Kollenborn version does not say “Eduardo” above “Manuel Peralta” like the Linda Peralta version. It says “Estiado”. This is not a complete Spanish word. However, there is a Spanish word “Estimado” meaning “esteemed”; It appears the letter “m” is missing by mistake . Because of the location of the word, “Estimado” should probably be the original word instead of “Eduardo”.
• The date on the Linda Peralta version is 1848, and the date on the Kollenborn version is 1846.
• The concentric circles of dots shown on the Kollenborn version near the Salt River have devolved into a random patch of X’s and dots on the Linda Peralta version. It would seem logical that the circles would devolve by copying instead of vice-versa.
• The concentric circles shown on the Kollenborn version are further away from the Salt River than the same area on the Linda Peralta version. On the Linda Peralta version it appears that a placer? is indicated, and it will be shown that this is not the case.
• The large dark triangle(arrow?) on the Kollenborn version is tiny and almost unrecognizable on the Linda Peralta version.

The style of the Peralta maps (Manuel Alejandro, Peralta-Fish) is confusing at first because the outlying features, be it “El Sombrero”, Superstition Mountain, the Salt River, camps, etc., are brought in close to the smaller-scaled, “zoomed” area of the mines. This method seems efficient though because a separate, smaller-scale map is not necessary. The Peralta-Fish map is depicting the mines located generally between the Salt River, Superstition Mountain, and El Sombrero.

So, assuming the Kollenborn version is the truer version, what are the concentric circles of dots? Using Google Earth, the area ¾ mile northwest of “Cerro Negra”(where most of the mines are located on the Peralta-Fish map, described in the previous post) at the same bearing as shown on Peralta-Fish Map was investigated. Lo and behold, the segments of 2 rings are seen (looking due east):

Image

The area was investigated on the ground, and the red rings are comprised of gossan that is untouched by a prospect pit, and there are many shorter segments that cannot be seen with Google Earth. Here is a photo of the rings from the ground from an elevated position:

Image

Here is another even closer photo of a ring.(there is El Sombrero again) Note: Weavers Needle looks like a sombrero in a very narrow, short area.

Image

These gossan rings are located in a diatreme with a very deep origin. There is a “tuff ring” surrounding part of the diatreme, and this photo shows the rock contorted by extreme pressure there:

Image

The VMS deposits of the area, physical features, and the area of the concentric circles is shown in this photo:

Image

In summary, there is little doubt that there were indeed 2 mining areas, the southern and northern, like the stories that have been passed down. The northern group would have processed their ore at Government Well where there was abundant, shallow ground water, and the southern group would have used First Water canyon where there was often flowing water and there was abundant ground water also.

cuzzinjack
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Re: The Holy Grail

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

cuzzinjack,

This is an exact copy of the original Frank Fish Map. It was done by my Uncle, Chuck Ribaudo:

Image

I have little doubt that it is an accurate tracing.

Take care,

Joe
cuzzinjack
Part Timer
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: The Holy Grail

Post by cuzzinjack »

Hi Joe,

That is a good one, but by all appearances it is a copy of the Linda Peralta version. Linda's has 5 different signatures by 5 different people, and your version has 4 of the signatures, and they all appear to be signed by the same person. The Kollenborn version still stands the tallest, in my opinion.

I know there are some people reading this that know a LOT about it; sure wish they would chime in.

Sincerely,

cuzzinjack
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Re: The Holy Grail

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

cuzzinjack,

I believe it's the other way around. The Fish Map in my picture came from Frank Fish. When did Linda produce her copy? It's a prime reason that the people who signed the map concentrated on Black Top. None of them, as far as I know, ever found anything of value.

Take care,

Joe
cuzzinjack
Part Timer
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: The Holy Grail

Post by cuzzinjack »

Hi Joe,

Please check out the Linda Peralta map on either Dr. Glover’s “The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz” on page 325 or “Treasure Tales of the Superstitions” page 310; here you will find the Linda Peralta version with the original signatures.

Yours does not have the original signatures and would be at the minimum, a second-hand copy. The Linda Peralta version already had to be at the minimum, a first-hand copy. My reasoning behind this is that no one in their right mind would let a bunch of guys sign the original dated 1848 (and the original was probably 1846).

My issue with either yours or hers is the area next to the Salt River has devolved into a non-descript patch of dots and X’s, and it does not make sense that these would be transformed into neat circles on the Kollenborn version after copying; the reverse would happen.

Additionally, the geology, not topography, backs up the Kollenborn version perfectly.

The Superstition Mountain Museum may be able to shine some light on its origin.

cuzzinjack
User avatar
Mike McChesney
Expert
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:39 am
Location: Arizona Vagrant

Re: The Holy Grail

Post by Mike McChesney »

You probably already know this, but those five signatures on the Frank Fish Map were of the five people that copies were made for. We know that from Lake Erie Schaefer (she and her husband are the first signature).

Mike
cuzzinjack
Part Timer
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: The Holy Grail

Post by cuzzinjack »

Hi Mike,

My knowledge of the map is only what Dr. Glover wrote in his books; it seems like you know more. Do you know where the original, original resides?

cuzzinjack
Post Reply