Crooked Mountain Question

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Mike McChesney
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Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Mike McChesney » Fri May 01, 2015 2:06 pm

After the entire pit mine deal, I saw many references to "Crooked Mountain" being part fact and part fiction.

After reading the book, it left me wondering just how much was fiction? Its a great story. I understand that it was based (I don't know how loosely) on the Ted Cox notes RF used to get the Treasure Trove Permit for the H.E.A.T. Dig.

The book made several authentic people look VERY bad. Anybody around that knew Abe Reid? Was he really that big of an AHole?

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Mike

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Potbelly Jim
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Re: Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Potbelly Jim » Sat May 02, 2015 9:25 pm

Hi Mike,
I agree, in fact I was a bit surprised to read about Abe Reid portrayed in that way. I have also read several other accounts that portrayed him in a much more positive light. I never knew him, so I don't know, but I'm inclined to think this portrayal was perhaps a bit of artistic license? I would suspect the only one that knows whether or not it was fact or fiction is Ron Feldman. I don't know him, so I'm certainly not the one to ask, but I sure would like to know as well. Take care, Jim
Jim R.

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Potbelly Jim
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Re: Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Potbelly Jim » Fri May 08, 2015 4:22 am

Mike,

Just as an aside, I checked Jesse Feldman's book "Jacob's Trail" since he uses the Cox notes quite a bit. It seems to line up. Jesse didn't want to "name names" so he left blanks in the Cox account of Ruth's murder (p. 296), but if you compare it to Crooked Mountain, the names he intentionally left out appear to be Abe Reid, Milton Rose, Keenan and Purnell. So maybe my previous post should have been that the only one who knows whether it's fact or fiction is Ted Cox, rather than Ron Feldman. Regards, Jim
Jim R.

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Re: Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Deducer » Mon May 11, 2015 9:16 am

Mike McChesney wrote:The book made several authentic people look VERY bad. Anybody around that knew Abe Reid? Was he really that big of an AHole?

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Mike



I am assuming you meant to ask if anyone knew more about Abe Reid, rather than actually knew him since he passed away in '56? I agree with Jim that the only knowledge Felder has is 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge, and that Cox, being a contemporary of Reid's, would be a much more reliable source.

Kollenborn could be another good source, as his father knew Reid.

One person that knew him well was Al Reser, who was also a close friend of Jim Hatt, and had been in the area since '36. There seems to have been a level of trust between Reid and Reser. It seems that Reser often talked to Hatt about Reid.

Reser stated that he had never known Reid to lie to him. Reid also entrusted a very important discovery to Reser who passed it on to Hatt.

Reid was also a schoolteacher prior to becoming a prospector.

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Re: Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Mon May 11, 2015 9:18 am

Potbelly Jim wrote:Mike,

Just as an aside, I checked Jesse Feldman's book "Jacob's Trail" since he uses the Cox notes quite a bit. It seems to line up. Jesse didn't want to "name names" so he left blanks in the Cox account of Ruth's murder (p. 296), but if you compare it to Crooked Mountain, the names he intentionally left out appear to be Abe Reid, Milton Rose, Keenan and Purnell. So maybe my previous post should have been that the only one who knows whether it's fact or fiction is Ted Cox, rather than Ron Feldman. Regards, Jim


Jim,

I know someone who met one of the people involved in the clean-out, and he was told to read the book a number of times. He inferred that it was not all fiction.

Good luck,

Joe

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Re: Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Joe Ribaudo » Mon May 11, 2015 10:28 am

Deducer,

I believe that Tom Kollenborn and by extension his father, are as good as it gets. Ted Cox had a reputation for telling tall tales. His brother, on the other hand, was known as a straight shooter. Got nothing to say about Jim Hatt.

Good luck,

Joe

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Re: Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Deducer » Tue May 12, 2015 12:30 am

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Deducer,

I believe that Tom Kollenborn and by extension his father, are as good as it gets. Ted Cox had a reputation for telling tall tales. His brother, on the other hand, was known as a straight shooter. Got nothing to say about Jim Hatt.

Good luck,

Joe


Cox did tell tall tales when it comes to TH'ing, and who doesn't? Have you met a fisherman who hasn't embellished the size of their catch or the one that got away? (Rhetoric question, btw.) That doesn't mean that anything else he had to say should make one circumspect.

I know you have nothing to say about Hatt, and whatever it is that happened between the two of you has zero bearing on how I perceive him or judge what he had to say, and so far, I have found nothing misleading or deceptive in anything he had to say about all things LDM or TSM.

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Re: Crooked Mountain Question

Postby Potbelly Jim » Tue May 12, 2015 3:42 am

Hi Joe and Deducer,

I'm glad that Ron and Jesse Feldman published what they could of the Cox notes, as it gives me a window back in time to people I remember that were a lot like him. Globe, Miami and Superior, even parts of Phx were different towns then, everyone pretty much knew each other and people were thought to be a bit "touched", but what's surprising is that the more I learn, the more truth I find in what they had to say.
For me at least, it's the stories and the people. It helps me connect with a time and a place that slipped away while I wasn't looking and are no longer within my reach. Seeing the place now is like visiting an old friend with Alzheimer's, he looks kinda the same but so much different, and doesn't remember who he is, or who you are, and worse doesn't remember what he was. Perhaps this is the same with all places, but this forum has been a welcome connection for me.
Well. I wouldn't think for a minute that ol Ted Cox believed he was telling tales. If a man tells you what he believes in sincerity, it's the truth. We can call B.S. on it, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he was trying to deceive anyone. I also want to see where the evidence leads, as I have a few of my own truths that may benefit.
I'm asking both of you, what in your opinion is the most truthful thing Ted Cox said? I'm beyond range of having my ears boxed, but will gladly appear in person if there are some stories to be heard. I'll bring the bourbon!
Thanks amigos, and my best regards, Jim
Jim R.