Helicopter

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RONN
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Helicopter

Post by RONN »

I was wondering if it is allowed to be dropped in to the Supes by helicopter and then have the copter pick us up a couple hours later. If not, what about using a transport type wheelchair with 4 wheels, not motorized. I am disabled and unable to walk any distance. So I woud be dependent on my fellow guide to move me short distances. For me, a horse is out of the question. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks much!
RONN

NeedleMan
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Re: Helicopter

Post by NeedleMan »

RONN, I know the hunting laws of Arizona allow a handicapped person to travel overland by vehicle to retrieve a Deer or Elk with a buddy but the design of the laws governing National Forest, Wilderness or what we call "The King's Land" do not take into consideration Handicapped Individuals.

About the only thing you could do is file a lawsuit to allow all trail's in and out to be converted back the roads they originally were so all Handicapped people could have access to these lands seized from our state by the Feds. All lands in Arizona belong to the state not the Feds.

Bill

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djui5
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Re: Helicopter

Post by djui5 »

Your passion is admirable. That is some rough terrain to be dragging a wheel chair through. I'd be happy to hike out for you and take picures if it helps. It would be awesome if you could find a way to see the mountains. It's an amazing place
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari

RONN
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Re: Helicopter

Post by RONN »

Randy -
Your post was appreciated more than you will ever know. I thank you so much for your offer to take some pictures for me. I do have a ton of books on the LDM, including "The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz', for which I paid $121.00 for a collectors edition. Now, my wife and I, after much discussion, have decided to drive to Apache Junction around April 20th, and stay at the Best Western in Mesa for several days. Hopefully we could meet with you sometime during that week, and talk about the pictures and listen to your tales of the LDM. During that time we want to visit Goldfied and the various museums/bookstores involved. AND if possible we are going to try and get into the Superstitions somehow. Instead of a wheelchair I will be using a "Rollator" that allows me to walk extremely short distances, and I mean short. Randy, do you think there is any possibility that I can get a helicopter to drop us in the LDM and pick us up a few hours later?
Looking forward to perhaps meeting with you soon.
Ron Nickel
PS: Email me if you like at [email protected].

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djui5
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Re: Helicopter

Post by djui5 »

Email sent :)
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari

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Mike McChesney
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Re: Helicopter

Post by Mike McChesney »

RONN,

Welcome, and I admire your fortitude! Randy is correct in that not much is available for handicapped access.

Here is a link to The Lost Dutchman State Park:

http://azstateparks.com/parks/lodu/facilities.html

Looks like the only thing they offer is Handicap Accessible Bathrooms and Showers. Nice view from the area though. I also highly recommend driving the Apache Trail Loop. Amazing views and several places along the way you could access for great pictures.

Mike

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Oroblanco
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Re: Helicopter

Post by Oroblanco »

I think the lawsuit idea is super. There are old roads that were bulldozed shut, and have created a more dangerous situation in the case of fires and or emergencies. Lawsuits are how the protectionists get the over restrictive regulations put in place and seems to be the only way these non-elected government officials will listen to the public.

Ronn if there is any way you could ride a horse, that would be your best bet. As I understand it helicopters are not allowed to get within a certain distance of the ground inside the Wilderness Area. Perhaps a special saddle and an assistant to help you get on and off the horse would work. I know there are groups that work with horses for people with disabilities and they have specially designed saddles and other equipment that might help you.

I hope you are able to find a way to get into the Wilderness Area (safely of course) and your point is one of the best arguments against the highly restrictive regulations in our Wilderness Areas. In effect these vast areas of wild lands are for all practical purposes, off limits to anyone but the most healthy hikers, which seems to be one of the reasons for those regulations. It is not right, those lands belong to all of us.

I would demur about the idea of transferring the lands to the State. This was not done in other western states either, and you have a Federal right to enter onto Federal lands, but no such legal right concerning State lands, the State can close it off even more easily than the Feds. Plus the State can and has sold off State lands which were supposed to be for generating perpetual income by renting it for grazing, logging and mining, not for developers to put in more homes and have a one-shot income for the State school system. Think about that idea of transferring the Federal lands to the State before you leap - and remember, you must have a permit to enter onto State lands now. Suppose the State decides that permit should cost you $10,000 per year and a $100 parking fee for your vehicle per day? Or more! Think they can't do it?

Good luck Ronn and anyone reading this, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca

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Oroblanco
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Re: Helicopter

Post by Oroblanco »

PS to Ronn - if you can not get into the Wilderness Area - not all is lost, for outside of the Wilderness area boundaries are some of the more highly mineralized areas anyway. It is entirely possible that the LDM is actually outside the Wilderness anyway. The story of Waltz leading his followers deep into the mountains may have been him simply MIS-leading his trailers, while the mine itself could very well be not that difficult to get to, and not even in the area now so highly restricted.

So even if you can not work it out to get access into the Wilderness Area, there are some very promising areas to search for that mine, OUTSIDE the Wilderness Area. After all when the boundaries were being arbitrarily drawn, the USGS did a mineral study and were required to exclude all the areas that were highly mineralized. (They failed utterly in this respect because there are mines inside the Wilderness Area which is against the Wilderness Act but you get the idea.) I know that two of the official mineral studies are available online, if you would like to see them I can send you the links. You are not a man that can be easily discouraged, we can see that so don't give up in your quest and you might well be the one who finds the Lost Dutchman mine!
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca

Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Helicopter

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Ronn,

Unless you are an experienced rider with lots of recent periods of time on horseback, riding into the interior would be torture, at best. Those who think that riding a horse simply means being able to stay in the saddle are mistaken, especially when you consider the terrain in the Superstitions.

The real expert to talk to would be Ron Feldman at the OK Corral.

It's a shame that someone who really want's to experience the Superstition Range can't seem to find a way. There are plenty of videos and pictures, but they are all a poor substitute for the reality of touching the mountains themselves.

You are feeling the pull that those mountains have had on all who come to know them. It's really like an old girlfriend/boyfriend that you can't get out of your mind. Most people can vouch for that feeling.

It's a dream that should never stop. Keep trying to find a way.

Image

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

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Mike McChesney
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Re: Helicopter

Post by Mike McChesney »

Contact Ron Feldman at:

http://okcorrals.com/home.html

I recommend calling there and discussing your particular situation with them. They have been packing people into the Supers since (I believe) the late 1960s. If anyone can figure something to assist you with your particular needs, they can.

Mike

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Oroblanco
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Re: Helicopter

Post by Oroblanco »

Well perhaps you are right Joe about the horseback riding being a torture. However there are a number of different organizations that use horseback riding as a literal therapy for many disabling ailments, including paralysis. This is what I was referring to, not to simply clamber onto a jughead horse that is apt to act up or spook at the worst possible moment.

Here are a couple of outfits that are doing the horseback riding therapy, some have had great results.

http://ridetowalk.org/about/programs/th ... ic-riding/

http://www.goodpeoplefund.org/program/i ... aQodSi0A_A

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/0 ... -and-back/

I would suggest that this would require a specially trained horse, and some training at one of these organizations before venturing into the Superstitions, but it might be one way that Ronn could get access to follow his dream.
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca

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