Did Emil Thomas know Herman Petrasch? Brad Johnson places Herman in Washington in 1892.....Emil left Phoenix 1890 and arrived in Washington in the early 1890's ( I know he was there in 1894 as Emil and Leontina were married then but so far thats the earliest I can place him there but it seems unlikely he just blew into town and married the 1st Gal he saw) Can anybody place Emil in Washington in 1891/92?
Where am I going with this? To tell ya the truth "I have no Freakin Ideal" just thought it might have a bearing on why Emil went to Washington.
Greg Kaiser
The Rhiney Petrasch Letter
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LARRY WEBB
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Whereabouts of Hermann
GK
Helen Corbin writes that Julia was the one that wrote the letter to Hermann
and Gotfried to ask them for help with finding the mine. At that time they
were in Colorado. If all that is true then the letter that Hatt is supposed to
been connected with never happened.
Larry
Helen Corbin writes that Julia was the one that wrote the letter to Hermann
and Gotfried to ask them for help with finding the mine. At that time they
were in Colorado. If all that is true then the letter that Hatt is supposed to
been connected with never happened.
Larry
Thomas Glover on
Thomas Glover writes in his book, The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz - Part 1: The Golden Dream, on page 179:
"So he (Rhinehart Petrasch - my add) sat down and wrote a letter to two experienced miners asking them to travel over 1,000 miles to help in the search; these miners were his father, Gottfried, and his brother, Herman, in Virginia City, Montana. Gottfried received the letter and did not quite know what to do about it, after all, pulling up stakes and moving all the way back to Arizona, a place they had purposefully abandoned, was asking a lot. So Gottfried took the letter to a friend of his named Hatt. Together Hatt and Petrasch went over the letter, discussing the possibilities. It must have been some letter, for not only were Gottfried and Herman soon headed to Phoenix, but, so was Hatt. Today Jim, Hatt's grandson, still searches the Superstition Mountains not far from where his family has hunted the Lost Dutchman Mine for three generations."
The Forum has already delved into the Hatt portion of this story, but note that Glover writes that Gottfried and Herman were in Virginia City, Montana, when they got the letter from Rhiney.
The debate will undoubtedly go on with this subject.
Roger
"So he (Rhinehart Petrasch - my add) sat down and wrote a letter to two experienced miners asking them to travel over 1,000 miles to help in the search; these miners were his father, Gottfried, and his brother, Herman, in Virginia City, Montana. Gottfried received the letter and did not quite know what to do about it, after all, pulling up stakes and moving all the way back to Arizona, a place they had purposefully abandoned, was asking a lot. So Gottfried took the letter to a friend of his named Hatt. Together Hatt and Petrasch went over the letter, discussing the possibilities. It must have been some letter, for not only were Gottfried and Herman soon headed to Phoenix, but, so was Hatt. Today Jim, Hatt's grandson, still searches the Superstition Mountains not far from where his family has hunted the Lost Dutchman Mine for three generations."
The Forum has already delved into the Hatt portion of this story, but note that Glover writes that Gottfried and Herman were in Virginia City, Montana, when they got the letter from Rhiney.
The debate will undoubtedly go on with this subject.
Roger
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Joe Ribaudo
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Sources
Larry,
Helen Corbin mentions that the Petrasch's came down from Colorado in her conclusions, but does not give a source for that informaiton. I am going to guess, that she was confused when it came to forming her own conclusions and not using others words. That is not surprising to me.
I am not sure where you got the part concerning Julia writing the letter.
As far as I am concerned, as usual, the Bark notes remain the best source available. He was so close to the events and the people who were there.
Rhiney told Bark that he had "written his father and brother....and that they had jus arrived from Montana." Don't know how you could find a better source than that.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Helen Corbin mentions that the Petrasch's came down from Colorado in her conclusions, but does not give a source for that informaiton. I am going to guess, that she was confused when it came to forming her own conclusions and not using others words. That is not surprising to me.
I am not sure where you got the part concerning Julia writing the letter.
As far as I am concerned, as usual, the Bark notes remain the best source available. He was so close to the events and the people who were there.
Rhiney told Bark that he had "written his father and brother....and that they had jus arrived from Montana." Don't know how you could find a better source than that.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
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Joe Ribaudo
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Still New
As I look at the books surrounding my computer, especially those that deal with the LDM/Superstitions, I am struck by the fact that Helen"s
"Bible" still looks brand new. The only time I pull it out, is when one of you quotes something from it.
On the other hand, my first copy of "The Lost Dutchman Mine" by, Sims Ely and "The Lost Dutchman Mine Of Jacob Waltz" by, Dr. Glover are coming apart. My original copy of Hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness" by, Jack Carlson and Elizabeth Stewart has also seen better days.
My Uncle Chuck knew exactly where he wanted to go, to the square foot, and went there without missing a step. It was books that gave him the road map to follow, without ever setting foot in the mountains. Like most of us, he found no gold, but he did find a place to search for it and friends to share the trail with. He never gave up on that search.
It's been said, that I have given up on the search. I am only on a different trail.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
"Bible" still looks brand new. The only time I pull it out, is when one of you quotes something from it.
On the other hand, my first copy of "The Lost Dutchman Mine" by, Sims Ely and "The Lost Dutchman Mine Of Jacob Waltz" by, Dr. Glover are coming apart. My original copy of Hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness" by, Jack Carlson and Elizabeth Stewart has also seen better days.
My Uncle Chuck knew exactly where he wanted to go, to the square foot, and went there without missing a step. It was books that gave him the road map to follow, without ever setting foot in the mountains. Like most of us, he found no gold, but he did find a place to search for it and friends to share the trail with. He never gave up on that search.
It's been said, that I have given up on the search. I am only on a different trail.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Wed May 17, 2006 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LARRY WEBB
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Reiney's Letter
Joe
What you were talking about was from Bark's notes, true. But the part I
was referring to was on page 74 of "The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold".
Helen also quoted the part you were talking about on page 94.
Respectfully
Larry
*I have no idea why she said Colorado in one place and 20 pages later
quoted an entirely different place, being in Bark's notes.
What you were talking about was from Bark's notes, true. But the part I
was referring to was on page 74 of "The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold".
Helen also quoted the part you were talking about on page 94.
Respectfully
Larry
*I have no idea why she said Colorado in one place and 20 pages later
quoted an entirely different place, being in Bark's notes.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Still Confused?
Larry,
Thanks for your reply.
I believe my explanation of what took place with Corbin, is the most likely one.
"I am going to guess, that she was confused when it came to forming her own conclusions and not using others words."
I believe that most Dutch Hunters who are familiar with what took place with Helen's book, might agree.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Thanks for your reply.
I believe my explanation of what took place with Corbin, is the most likely one.
"I am going to guess, that she was confused when it came to forming her own conclusions and not using others words."
I believe that most Dutch Hunters who are familiar with what took place with Helen's book, might agree.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Herman and Rhiney's Citizenship
Greg K and All,
It's taken a while to get back to this but I did want to share some of the background I promised on the Petrasch's Naturalization.
In the late 1800's if you were a foreign born child (under 18 ) when you came to the U.S. and your father became a citizen, you automatically became a citizen. Herman Petrasch was 5 and Rheinhold was 3 when they arrived in the U. S. from Germany. If their father Gottfried Petrasch became naturalized, they would automatically become citizens.
Herman and Rhiney both believed they were citizens from their father's naturalization. They both voted and were on jury lists in various locations.
In 1937, Rhiney applied for an Old Age Pension in Gila County, Arizona. Since he was foreign born, he had to prove his citizenship. In November of 1886, Rhiney's father had told him that he (Gottfried) had taken his citizenship papers out in Helena, Montana. When the officials wrote back to Montana to verify the naturalization of Gottfried, they could find no record and hence declared that Rhiney was not a citizen. Rhiney later informed Herman of what he had learned and Herman tried to investigate it but could not find out anything different. Therefore in order to receive their pensions, they had to reapply for citizenship.
From their applications for Naturalization, (Graciously provided by Greg Davis) we find some additional background.
From what Greg K. has found, we know that Herman filed a Declaration of Intention to become a citizen on March 10, 1887 in Whatcom County, Washington. According to Herman's affidavit in 1938, his father was in Blaine, Whatcom County, Washington in 1888 and told Herman that he was a citizen by his naturalization. It seems that Herman dropped his own efforts to complete his naturalization process since it was now unnecessary?
The picture for Rhiney is fairly clear and everything he states seems to fit. Rhiney registered to vote in Maricopa County on August 15, 1890 and June 19, 1894. In both cases he said he was a citizen by nature of his father's naturalization.
When Gottfried (the father) registered to vote in Maricopa County on August 29, 1892, he stated he was Naturalized October 27, 1888 in the Montana Circuit Court. It seems from other entries in the Maricopa Register, your naturalization didn't have to be complete to register. A Declaration of Intention was sufficient in this time period. It's not clear to which one Gottfried was referring?
Herman's statements are a bit more confusing. We find him registering to vote in Maricopa County, and in each instance the citizenship was handled a little differently. (It does seem that the officials were pretty lax in their registration policies.)
On June 15, 1894, Herman registered and provided his own Naturalization Date of 1887 in Washington State. (He was probably referring to his own Declaration of Intention that Greg K. found). Later, on July 18, 1898, he registered and stated that he was naturalized by nature of his Father's citizenship. The third occasion of him registering that we have was on August 22, 1904 in Maricopa County. In this case he gave a date of January 18, 1886 in Whatcom County, Washington for his Naturalization. (Again he was likely referring to his Declaration of Intention but simply had some of the details wrong.)
Herman seems to have been using both his own Declaration of Intention and his citizenship by virtue of his father's naturalization to fulfill the registration requirements.
The most puzzling entry from Herman's Affidavit is his recorded statement; " I voted first in Pitkin, Colorado, in 1882." Herman would have been about 18 at the time and not eligible to vote. (Unless Colorado had some different laws?) It would also be interesting to find how he justified his citizenship in 1882? Another possibility is that it could have been a recording error by the clerk or typist filling out his Naturalization Application and it should have been a date other than 1882? Say 1892, which would mean that Herman came to Arizona from Colorado?
If we try to use the dates from these documents to construct a chronology of the movements (1886-1892) of Gottfried and Herman it proves rather confusing. We do know that Herman was in Whatcom County, Washington on March 10, 1887 and apparently his father joined him there in 1888 and told Herman that he was already a citizen. It also seems apparent that either Gottfried applied for naturalization in Montana about 1886-87 or he was spinning a tale. I wouldn't be surprised if a Declaration of Intention or Final Papers for Gottfried show up in Montana!
We still have a void in the chronology (1888-1892). Either or both Herman and Gottfried could have returned to Montana before being contacted by Rhiney regarding the Jacob Waltz mine. We just don't have any documents for this time frame except for James Bark's account. I'm not as enthusiastic about the validity of many of the Bark details as Joe! We do have the Virginia City reference but I have nothing on that.
I still have hopes that additional documents will be found that will shed some additional light on the topic. I suspect the final account has yet to be written.
Garry
It's taken a while to get back to this but I did want to share some of the background I promised on the Petrasch's Naturalization.
In the late 1800's if you were a foreign born child (under 18 ) when you came to the U.S. and your father became a citizen, you automatically became a citizen. Herman Petrasch was 5 and Rheinhold was 3 when they arrived in the U. S. from Germany. If their father Gottfried Petrasch became naturalized, they would automatically become citizens.
Herman and Rhiney both believed they were citizens from their father's naturalization. They both voted and were on jury lists in various locations.
In 1937, Rhiney applied for an Old Age Pension in Gila County, Arizona. Since he was foreign born, he had to prove his citizenship. In November of 1886, Rhiney's father had told him that he (Gottfried) had taken his citizenship papers out in Helena, Montana. When the officials wrote back to Montana to verify the naturalization of Gottfried, they could find no record and hence declared that Rhiney was not a citizen. Rhiney later informed Herman of what he had learned and Herman tried to investigate it but could not find out anything different. Therefore in order to receive their pensions, they had to reapply for citizenship.
From their applications for Naturalization, (Graciously provided by Greg Davis) we find some additional background.
From what Greg K. has found, we know that Herman filed a Declaration of Intention to become a citizen on March 10, 1887 in Whatcom County, Washington. According to Herman's affidavit in 1938, his father was in Blaine, Whatcom County, Washington in 1888 and told Herman that he was a citizen by his naturalization. It seems that Herman dropped his own efforts to complete his naturalization process since it was now unnecessary?
The picture for Rhiney is fairly clear and everything he states seems to fit. Rhiney registered to vote in Maricopa County on August 15, 1890 and June 19, 1894. In both cases he said he was a citizen by nature of his father's naturalization.
When Gottfried (the father) registered to vote in Maricopa County on August 29, 1892, he stated he was Naturalized October 27, 1888 in the Montana Circuit Court. It seems from other entries in the Maricopa Register, your naturalization didn't have to be complete to register. A Declaration of Intention was sufficient in this time period. It's not clear to which one Gottfried was referring?
Herman's statements are a bit more confusing. We find him registering to vote in Maricopa County, and in each instance the citizenship was handled a little differently. (It does seem that the officials were pretty lax in their registration policies.)
On June 15, 1894, Herman registered and provided his own Naturalization Date of 1887 in Washington State. (He was probably referring to his own Declaration of Intention that Greg K. found). Later, on July 18, 1898, he registered and stated that he was naturalized by nature of his Father's citizenship. The third occasion of him registering that we have was on August 22, 1904 in Maricopa County. In this case he gave a date of January 18, 1886 in Whatcom County, Washington for his Naturalization. (Again he was likely referring to his Declaration of Intention but simply had some of the details wrong.)
Herman seems to have been using both his own Declaration of Intention and his citizenship by virtue of his father's naturalization to fulfill the registration requirements.
The most puzzling entry from Herman's Affidavit is his recorded statement; " I voted first in Pitkin, Colorado, in 1882." Herman would have been about 18 at the time and not eligible to vote. (Unless Colorado had some different laws?) It would also be interesting to find how he justified his citizenship in 1882? Another possibility is that it could have been a recording error by the clerk or typist filling out his Naturalization Application and it should have been a date other than 1882? Say 1892, which would mean that Herman came to Arizona from Colorado?
If we try to use the dates from these documents to construct a chronology of the movements (1886-1892) of Gottfried and Herman it proves rather confusing. We do know that Herman was in Whatcom County, Washington on March 10, 1887 and apparently his father joined him there in 1888 and told Herman that he was already a citizen. It also seems apparent that either Gottfried applied for naturalization in Montana about 1886-87 or he was spinning a tale. I wouldn't be surprised if a Declaration of Intention or Final Papers for Gottfried show up in Montana!
We still have a void in the chronology (1888-1892). Either or both Herman and Gottfried could have returned to Montana before being contacted by Rhiney regarding the Jacob Waltz mine. We just don't have any documents for this time frame except for James Bark's account. I'm not as enthusiastic about the validity of many of the Bark details as Joe! We do have the Virginia City reference but I have nothing on that.
I still have hopes that additional documents will be found that will shed some additional light on the topic. I suspect the final account has yet to be written.
Garry
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Joe Ribaudo
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Helen Corbin
All,
I have been told, by a friend who knows, that there is much more to the story of the publishing of "The Bible" by, Helen Corbin.
Not everyone agrees with my friend and it might be helpful if he explained the conditions that surrounded the publishing of her book.
Defending a friend is one of the most rewarding tasks a person can do in their life. He has done it very well, in an e-mail.
Most of my posts concerning Mrs. Corbin were complimentary and defensive, even though I don't know the woman at all. I stepped over the line in my last few posts and apologize for my comments.
I prefer to attack the facts, rather than the author. In my last few posts, I made personal attacks on the character and abilities of Mrs. Corbin. They were based on the opinions and professed knowledge of others and were devoid of any personal knowledge of my own.
In truth, I am fairly certain I met Mr. and Mrs. Corbin while they were camped at Piper Spring. The man I believed to be Mr. Corbin did most of the talking, and they were gracious hosts, offering a never-ending supply of coffee to our party.
The man told us that he had worked for Ed Piper and that he and his wife were in the mountains gathering material for a book. Cousin Sam, who had just quit smoking, nearly died when these two folks rolled their own, and lit up. I remember the lady, very classy looking, only used one hand to roll her's.
The man told us some interestin stories about his time with Ed Piper. He was my original source for the "lights on the Needle" story. He also told us about Ed deciding to hide and try to find out what the Apache did in the time he had agreed to leave the mountains. He also told us where Ed was hiding when the two Apache found him.
Once again, my apologies to Mrs. Corbin.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
I have been told, by a friend who knows, that there is much more to the story of the publishing of "The Bible" by, Helen Corbin.
Not everyone agrees with my friend and it might be helpful if he explained the conditions that surrounded the publishing of her book.
Defending a friend is one of the most rewarding tasks a person can do in their life. He has done it very well, in an e-mail.
Most of my posts concerning Mrs. Corbin were complimentary and defensive, even though I don't know the woman at all. I stepped over the line in my last few posts and apologize for my comments.
I prefer to attack the facts, rather than the author. In my last few posts, I made personal attacks on the character and abilities of Mrs. Corbin. They were based on the opinions and professed knowledge of others and were devoid of any personal knowledge of my own.
In truth, I am fairly certain I met Mr. and Mrs. Corbin while they were camped at Piper Spring. The man I believed to be Mr. Corbin did most of the talking, and they were gracious hosts, offering a never-ending supply of coffee to our party.
The man told us that he had worked for Ed Piper and that he and his wife were in the mountains gathering material for a book. Cousin Sam, who had just quit smoking, nearly died when these two folks rolled their own, and lit up. I remember the lady, very classy looking, only used one hand to roll her's.
The man told us some interestin stories about his time with Ed Piper. He was my original source for the "lights on the Needle" story. He also told us about Ed deciding to hide and try to find out what the Apache did in the time he had agreed to leave the mountains. He also told us where Ed was hiding when the two Apache found him.
Once again, my apologies to Mrs. Corbin.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pretrast,s
Helen Corbins ACES all the blowhards: YEH YEH YEH, Helen,s the greatest, She made all the blowhards cough up their stories didn,t she? These other would be hunters couldn,t write fast enough to get their story book out could they? HURRAY for mrs HELEN! Before her book these would be writers were still pinching the word " the" to keep from telling anybody, anything? weren,t they? HELEN,S still the GREATEST! 
bill 
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Jim Bark
Garry,
Once again, you have done a great job of historical fact gathering. Like many things in the Dutchman Legend, it seems there are degrees of truth and fiction throughout. Is there a book in your future?
I take a lot of crap for my defense of Jim Bark and Sims Ely. If there is a better pair of sources for information on Jacob Waltz, I am willing to listen.
For a long time, Brownie Holmes denied he was the author of "The Hollmes Manuscript". One wonders what reasons could have been behind that denial. Anyone know why he did tthat?
Bill,
I am not sure that Helen Corbin merits accolades for her (Bible) work, but I am pretty sure she does not deserve condemnation either. As I understand it, the final product was not completely under her control.
It's probably a story worth telling, just to clear the air.
I still like Dr. Glover's work above all. Lots of original information that only came with a tremendous amount of personal research.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Once again, you have done a great job of historical fact gathering. Like many things in the Dutchman Legend, it seems there are degrees of truth and fiction throughout. Is there a book in your future?
I take a lot of crap for my defense of Jim Bark and Sims Ely. If there is a better pair of sources for information on Jacob Waltz, I am willing to listen.
For a long time, Brownie Holmes denied he was the author of "The Hollmes Manuscript". One wonders what reasons could have been behind that denial. Anyone know why he did tthat?
Bill,
I am not sure that Helen Corbin merits accolades for her (Bible) work, but I am pretty sure she does not deserve condemnation either. As I understand it, the final product was not completely under her control.
It's probably a story worth telling, just to clear the air.
I still like Dr. Glover's work above all. Lots of original information that only came with a tremendous amount of personal research.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
The Pretrast,s
OK Joe; You have Ms Helen,s book in your self; NOW get the book down and read what she has to tell you at the outset? She explains perfectly clear where she is coming from! She put her book out early too. She may not have had the means to check every omph and poof the way we can today. If anyone lies now he is caught up very fast..Helen never claimed the words as her OWN but what seemed to make the BEST SENSE out of what she and bobby had acummalated over the years. She didn,t validate the truth of it; just from what material they had this what seems to make the best sense to her from what material she had to pick from..bill
More Petrasch Chronology
From reviewing some of the Petrasch documents, I get the impression that Rhinehart was rather organized and careful with details. The preparation for his suicide, the dates he provided in documents, etc. all bear testimony to his thoroughness.
One item that caught my eye was on his death certificate that stated he had resided continuously in Arizona for 56 years. He died in February 1943 and this would place his arrival in Arizona in 1884 or 1885. This fits with the other story of his brother George's death in Phoenix. What it also indicates to me is that when the family left Arizona after George's death (July 11, 1885), Rhiney did not accompany them. He would have been about 18 or 19 and I tend to believe he remained in Phoenix. (Emil and Julia Thomas showed up in Phoenix about this time also.)
I have no documentation that proves Gottfried and Helene went their separate ways immediately after they left Phoenix. But if Gottfried was in Montana is 1886, and we find Helene later, living near her daughter Pauline in Indiana, it certainly makes sense. By 1910 Helene was living with Pauline.
Pauline was a half sister to Rhiney and Herman. The marriage to Gottfried (about 1861) was Helene's second marriage. From her first marriage, Pauline was born in 1855. Helene had nine children but these three were the only ones to reach adulthood.
Pauline married in Anderson County, Kansas in 1873 and she and her husband left shortly thereafter and moved to Jennings County, Indiana. Pauline remained there until her death in 1948. She almost certainly didn't travel with the family to Phoenix in 1884-85.
Much has also been made of the relationship between Herman and Rhiney. One writer went so far as to state that "the brothers fought among themselves and wound up not speaking for the rest of their lives." From the sworn affidavit of Herman and Rhiney's suicide note it seems apparent that they were speaking and communicating. They may not have been close but at least later on in their lives they were cordial. They both had their own lives and It seems rather typical of many brother relationships.
Garry
One item that caught my eye was on his death certificate that stated he had resided continuously in Arizona for 56 years. He died in February 1943 and this would place his arrival in Arizona in 1884 or 1885. This fits with the other story of his brother George's death in Phoenix. What it also indicates to me is that when the family left Arizona after George's death (July 11, 1885), Rhiney did not accompany them. He would have been about 18 or 19 and I tend to believe he remained in Phoenix. (Emil and Julia Thomas showed up in Phoenix about this time also.)
I have no documentation that proves Gottfried and Helene went their separate ways immediately after they left Phoenix. But if Gottfried was in Montana is 1886, and we find Helene later, living near her daughter Pauline in Indiana, it certainly makes sense. By 1910 Helene was living with Pauline.
Pauline was a half sister to Rhiney and Herman. The marriage to Gottfried (about 1861) was Helene's second marriage. From her first marriage, Pauline was born in 1855. Helene had nine children but these three were the only ones to reach adulthood.
Pauline married in Anderson County, Kansas in 1873 and she and her husband left shortly thereafter and moved to Jennings County, Indiana. Pauline remained there until her death in 1948. She almost certainly didn't travel with the family to Phoenix in 1884-85.
Much has also been made of the relationship between Herman and Rhiney. One writer went so far as to state that "the brothers fought among themselves and wound up not speaking for the rest of their lives." From the sworn affidavit of Herman and Rhiney's suicide note it seems apparent that they were speaking and communicating. They may not have been close but at least later on in their lives they were cordial. They both had their own lives and It seems rather typical of many brother relationships.
Garry
OT:
What is the deal behind Helens book? PM me if you wish. I have it, and thought it to be a great read, but am new to this "game".
What is the deal behind Helens book? PM me if you wish. I have it, and thought it to be a great read, but am new to this "game".
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
The Rhiney Petrasch Letter
There was a tremendous amount of historical information in Helen's "Bible" from the first hand experiences of the pioneers letters and journals. Even though most of them were not related to the LDM, the insight into the lives of these people was fascinating. We have to take all of the books written on this subject, and as has been discussed many times, sort though the chaff. The way to do that is (as Joe has pointed out on numerous occasions) is to verify the information as to the source and accuracy. Sometimes that is not possible, we are dealing with history that is over 100 years old. However, what has disillusioned me about Helen's last book was the information about the arrival of Jacob Waltz on the Olbers and the ships manifest that no one else seems to be able to verify. I know there were some serious efforts made to do so by a few on this forum. Has anyone yet found the source for that information?
murphy
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Joe Ribaudo
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Sources?
Murphy,
There are some members who know a little about this matter. At one time, I have been told, the entire manifest could be found on the internet. It has been removed, for some reason.
I was to get a complete copy, but that somehow got confused and I have never seen it. Without a verifiable source.....it's suspect. Perhaps there is a good reason why the source is being kept confidential.
Personally, I kind of lost interest in the thing. Too many dead ends.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
There are some members who know a little about this matter. At one time, I have been told, the entire manifest could be found on the internet. It has been removed, for some reason.
I was to get a complete copy, but that somehow got confused and I have never seen it. Without a verifiable source.....it's suspect. Perhaps there is a good reason why the source is being kept confidential.
Personally, I kind of lost interest in the thing. Too many dead ends.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Corbin books
I have Corbin's latest book (bible). Is it just an expansion of her previous or do those have completely different content?
Corbin books
I have Corbin's latest book (bible). Is it just an expansion of her previous or do those have completely different content?