Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

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Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Somehiker wrote:"There will come a time/ I know/when people will take delight in one another/ when each will be a star to the other/and when each will listen to his fellow as to music."

If Don Shade had been able to attend a Rendezvous,he would have witnessed such a time.

Regards:SH.
Wayne,

Thank you for that comment. In truth, that was the concept from the start. I would like to believe that it will still be so for many years to come.

Hope all is well with you and the family.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Somehiker »

Joe:
Yes,all is well.Very busy this year though,and certainly no time to be bored.
The popularity of the mountains,the legends and the enthusiasm that is so evident at the gathering makes it likely that the Rendezvous will continue for many years to come.
That is my wish as well.

Take care:Wayne
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Oroblanco »

Klondike wrote
Hello Joe, Hello Roy,

The two of you should have taken the time to read Esperanza. Or if you have read it taken the time to understand it. On page 60 is a letter that attests that The Dutchman`s last name was Waltzer. On page 148 is a clue that even the clueless can appreciate.

The library of Oz no longer exists. It`s secrets are safe in South Africa.

At the end of Esperanza there is a statement that bears repeating:

"There will come a time/ I know/when people will take delight in one another/ when each will be a star to the other/and when each will listen to his fellow as to music."

The Children of Calalus were the star people, they would have shared that star with you.

May the Stars keep each of you safe.

It is time to go home.

Klondike
A single letter that attests to Jacob Waltz being actually named Waltzer does not explain why Waltz himself signed his own name WALTZ, not Waltzer, Walzer or any other variant. The obvious conclusion is that the letter writer was erroneous in assigning that spelling variant.

The library of Oz, we have never established as actually existing at all - only claims that it did. Was it just a figment of imagination in the first place? Having seen no evidence of it, we have to conclude that it never did exist in solid form.

Ditto to the words of Some Hiker, had you made the effort to attend the rendezvous you would have seen the very thing you describe, in reality.

Ron halan, mene sakkhet ur-seveh Starman, Klondike, B, ong Mr Walzer, klee lunikkh ta'vik t' fai-tukh. T'kona.

Oroblanco
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Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Ben,

[Hello Joe, Hello Roy,

The two of you should have taken the time to read Esperanza. Or if you have read it taken the time to understand it. On page 60 is a letter that attests that The Dutchman`s last name was Waltzer. On page 148 is a clue that even the clueless can appreciate.]

As I said, I have read "Esperanza" and I am quite familiar with the letter on page 60. A long ago I took that letter and did a little research into what Herman Petrach's life was like at that time. He supposedly wrote that letter in the same year as his death, as the notation at the bottom of the letter states.

Funny thing is, that letter has "Superior" written at both the top of the letter and at the bottom. There are some striking similarities in the handwriting. Beyond that, he states that he, his father and Rhinehart knew Waltz "over a period of many years."

There are two people who I feel did the best research into the history of Jacob Waltz. Thomas Glover is probably the man who did the most thorough research. Robert Blair would be a distant second to Blair, who's work Thomas used as a source for some of his material.

Here is what Blair had to say about Herman's written statement: "We the Petrasch Family, my father Gottfried, my brother Rinehart knew him [Waltz] personally over a period of years..."

"This can scarcely be true, as only Rinehart knew the Dutchman in life." What follows that passage are numerous false statements about Waltz, such as: "He further stated that this prosperous man of business '"kept wine in his cellar and offered it to friends when they visited him'". Beyond that, although the letter is shaky, Herman did not spell his brother's name correctly. He was known to make many statements about Waltz that could not be true.

Two people who knew Herman quite well in his last years were Bill Barkley and George W. Kollenborn. Tom tells me that they stated that Herman was "slipping" towards the end, and his memory may not have been so accurate. You will need to find a much more reliable source for your stories.

The best evidence for Waltz's name, are the numerous documents that he signed his name to over the years. I believe I will take that evidence over some wild stories that are housed in a "small museum in South Africa".......Which is never named.

Your collective LDM knowledge becomes more questionable with each passing year.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

"There are two people who I feel did the best research into the history of Jacob Waltz. Thomas Glover is probably the man who did the most thorough research. Robert Blair would be a distant second to Blair, who's work Thomas used as a source for some of his material."

Perhaps the above statement should have read........Robert Blair would be a distant second. Thomas used Blair's work as a source for some of his own material.
Joe
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by djui5 »

Joe Ribaudo wrote:I would like to believe that it will still be so for many years to come.
It will, zentull and I can assure you of that.
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

Just wanted to put this topic where it will be easy to find.

Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by don »

I gave up on Helen Corbin and anything she wrote when, if my memory serves me correctly ,she wrote on page 178 (i think) (and im paraphrasing here) "Indians never lied"...There were several other questionable statements she made ,but that one did it for me ,I believe it ended up in a local charity shop,and if any prospective buyer has any common sense,it will remain ,gathering dust for a long time to come.
Don update your email address
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Mike McChesney »

Thanks for that Joe. It took me a while to dig it out last night. I didn't even think about bumping the topic. HAHAHA

Mike
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

don wrote:I gave up on Helen Corbin and anything she wrote when, if my memory serves me correctly ,she wrote on page 178 (i think) (and im paraphrasing here) "Indians never lied"...There were several other questionable statements she made ,but that one did it for me ,I believe it ended up in a local charity shop,and if any prospective buyer has any common sense,it will remain ,gathering dust for a long time to come.
Hi Don,

Actually, the statement you are referring to is on page 188 of "The Curse Of The Dutchman's Gold" by Helen Corbin. Obviously it was not a statement of fact, but something Helen, like many impressionable writers, believed. Many other writers of the history of the Native Americans held the same kind of opinions about their subjects. Not unusual at all.

Hope all is well back there.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mike McChesney wrote:Thanks for that Joe. It took me a while to dig it out last night. I didn't even think about bumping the topic. HAHAHA

Mike
Mike,

It also took me forever to find the topic. That's exactly why I bumped it. It's certainly an interesting and informative thread. I didn't find where I gave Starman/Ben Davis such a hard time as deducer suggested over on TNet.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Oroblanco »

don wrote:I gave up on Helen Corbin and anything she wrote when, if my memory serves me correctly ,she wrote on page 178 (i think) (and im paraphrasing here) "Indians never lied"...There were several other questionable statements she made ,but that one did it for me ,I believe it ended up in a local charity shop,and if any prospective buyer has any common sense,it will remain ,gathering dust for a long time to come.
While Helen's second Dutchman book (the 'Bible') has a number of falsehoods, her first book is not at all so I would still recommend it, think the title is Curse of the Dutchmans Gold or similar to that, well worth your time.

Helen is or was guilty of trusting a friend as a source, which proved disastrous for her reputation. All writers are at the mercy of their sources, and were she alive today I am certain she would highly approve of her husband's efforts to buy back all copies of that second book the 'Bible' on the lost Dutchman. She might have even had recourse to legal actions, like a lawsuit for fraudulent misrepresentations from that source. Look at what happened to the author who wrote the fact "autobiography" of Howard Hughes, if anyone doubts that Helen could have taken legal actions.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas,
Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Oroblanco wrote:
don wrote:I gave up on Helen Corbin and anything she wrote when, if my memory serves me correctly ,she wrote on page 178 (i think) (and im paraphrasing here) "Indians never lied"...There were several other questionable statements she made ,but that one did it for me ,I believe it ended up in a local charity shop,and if any prospective buyer has any common sense,it will remain ,gathering dust for a long time to come.
While Helen's second Dutchman book (the 'Bible') has a number of falsehoods, her first book is not at all so I would still recommend it, think the title is Curse of the Dutchmans Gold or similar to that, well worth your time.

Helen is or was guilty of trusting a friend as a source, which proved disastrous for her reputation. All writers are at the mercy of their sources, and were she alive today I am certain she would highly approve of her husband's efforts to buy back all copies of that second book the 'Bible' on the lost Dutchman. She might have even had recourse to legal actions, like a lawsuit for fraudulent misrepresentations from that source. Look at what happened to the author who wrote the fact "autobiography" of Howard Hughes, if anyone doubts that Helen could have taken legal actions.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas,
Oroblanco
Roy,

I believe Don was quoting from Helen's "Curse of the Dutchman's Gold".

Have a Merry Christmas!

Joe
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roy,

See last post on previous page.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Deducer »

Joe Ribaudo wrote: Mike,

It also took me forever to find the topic. That's exactly why I bumped it. It's certainly an interesting and informative thread. I didn't find where I gave Starman/Ben Davis such a hard time as deducer suggested over on TNet.

Take care,

Joe
What I mentioned was that you goaded Starman, resulting in a bunch of silly posts "that detracted from the discussion."

Page 39 being an example.
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Deducer wrote:
Joe Ribaudo wrote: Mike,

It also took me forever to find the topic. That's exactly why I bumped it. It's certainly an interesting and informative thread. I didn't find where I gave Starman/Ben Davis such a hard time as deducer suggested over on TNet.

Take care,

Joe
What I mentioned was that you goaded Starman, resulting in a bunch of silly posts "that detracted from the discussion."

Page 39 being an example.
deducer,

As usual, you have cherry-picked your quote without considering the entire history of Ben's posts here. Others had been much harsher on him before my post on page 39. They knew who "Starman" was and the history of his posts.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see you posting over here.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Oroblanco »

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Roy,

See last post on previous page.

Take care,

Joe
Yes I did see that, I was responding to a part of what Don was saying, this part specifically:
I gave up on Helen Corbin and anything she wrote
<snip>

I got the impression that Don was dismissing anything Helen wrote, due to the flaws in the Bible as with the example he cited. That would be a shame as her first book (Curse of the Dutchman's Gold?) is really very good and does not seem to have the same problems as the second. At least I did not find any errors or questionable materials, as is possible with the 'Bible'.

Merry Christmas to you Joe and anyone reading this, and perhaps this old forum is not going to give up the ghost after all! :mrgreen:
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Deducer »

Joe Ribaudo wrote:
deducer,

As usual, you have cherry-picked your quote without considering the entire history of Ben's posts here. Others had been much harsher on him before my post on page 39. They knew who "Starman" was and the history of his posts.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see you posting over here.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Joe Ribaudo
The salient point being- it contributed nothing to the discussion at hand.

I too, wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas, and hope that you are not inundated with.... cats.
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by klondike »

Gentlemen:

Discussions concerning the ldm have always created a certain amount of silliness. I have even been known to participate. :D

As the following will make clear:


Hello Mr. Ribaudo,

Hope things are going well with you and yours.

You have an excellent point on the maps. Perhaps everything was cleaned out long ago. That would actually be a real hoot. Who knows Ayer may have made everything.

On another point. Since you have interpreted the Stone Maps correctly, yet there are many solutions, and some with very impressive monuments, some one must have had quite the sense of humor. And since the truth squad is using a different interpretation of the maps, as evidenced by their video, really dies not matter where they end up.

Imagine if they try to tag along with your efforts they will be happy to cut you a check and recognition.

So what is the timeline now. 2 years to get the right permits. At least 2+seasons of reality tv shows, and at least a couple of books, then and only then if nothing can be found there will be a grand conclusion on a 3 hour tv program with the dirt map, the hide map, 27 stone maps, all in front of the bat cave.

Someone will parachute out of the bat cave and announce all of this actually applies to the Rocky Mountains, as proven by a new carving found under 4 tons of bat stuff. Everyone will take off let`s say for Silverton, Colorado. All the explorers will set up base camp in Durango and take the train to Silverton everyday on the search. That should get at least another 3 seasons out of this. :lol:

Gatekeepers are becoming totally obsolete. This is becoming Disneyland.


May the stars keep you safe.


Klondike
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps
Postby Joe Ribaudo » Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:03 pm

klondike wrote:
Hello Mr. Ribaudo,

Hope things are going well with you and yours.

You have an excellent point on the maps. Perhaps everything was cleaned out long ago. That would actually be a real hoot. Who knows Ayer may have made everything.

On another point. Since you have interpreted the Stone Maps correctly, yet there are many solutions, and some with very impressive monuments, some one must have had quite the sense of humor. And since the truth squad is using a different interpretation of the maps, as evidenced by their video, really dies not matter where they end up.

Imagine if they try to tag along with your efforts they will be happy to cut you a check and recognition.

So what is the timeline now. 2 years to get the right permits. At least 2+seasons of reality tv shows, and at least a couple of books, then and only then if nothing can be found there will be a grand conclusion on a 3 hour tv program with the dirt map, the hide map, 27 stone maps, all in front of the bat cave.

Someone will parachute out of the bat cave and announce all of this actually applies to the Rocky Mountains, as proven by a new carving found under 4 tons of bat stuff. Everyone will take off let`s say for Silverton, Colorado. All the explorers will set up base camp in Durango and take the train to Silverton everyday on the search. That should get at least another 3 seasons out of this. :lol:

Gatekeepers are becoming totally obsolete. This is becoming Disneyland.


May the stars keep you safe.


Klondike


Ben,

Dang! I was really hoping for a job........Maybe a greeter for Disneyland will be the back-up plan. :lol:

Joe

Actually the above still seems to me right on. Did it add much, probably not.


Merry Christmas


klondike
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Deducer wrote:
Joe Ribaudo wrote:
deducer,

As usual, you have cherry-picked your quote without considering the entire history of Ben's posts here. Others had been much harsher on him before my post on page 39. They knew who "Starman" was and the history of his posts.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see you posting over here.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Joe Ribaudo
The salient point being- it contributed nothing to the discussion at hand.

I too, wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas, and hope that you are not inundated with.... cats.
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

deducer,

Other than to dig at me, what exactly did your posts add to the discussion? My addition, was to point out the history of Ben's posts to any newbies who might be looking in. Someone like you, who has been absorbing every post I ever made, should be educated enough, by now, to not need such reminders. Then again.......

Merry Christmas,

Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Oroblanco »

Merry Christmas to you all!
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Deducer »

Joe Ribaudo wrote:deducer,

Other than to dig at me, what exactly did your posts add to the discussion? My addition, was to point out the history of Ben's posts to any newbies who might be looking in. Someone like you, who has been absorbing every post I ever made, should be educated enough, by now, to not need such reminders. Then again.......

Merry Christmas,

Joe Ribaudo
Although I like to prod you every now and then, rest assured that there is no real malice.

Hope you had a great Christmas, and wishing you a healthy 2016.
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Re: Helen Corbin's Olbers Manifest

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Deducer wrote:
Joe Ribaudo wrote:deducer,

Other than to dig at me, what exactly did your posts add to the discussion? My addition, was to point out the history of Ben's posts to any newbies who might be looking in. Someone like you, who has been absorbing every post I ever made, should be educated enough, by now, to not need such reminders. Then again.......

Merry Christmas,

Joe Ribaudo
Although I like to prod you every now and then, rest assured that there is no real malice.

Hope you had a great Christmas, and wishing you a healthy 2016.
deducer,

Can't say there is any malice here either.

Happy New Year!

Joe Ribaudo
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