anyone know where knife hill is?
anyone know where knife hill is?
a while back i posted in here asking if anyone knew where kinfe hill is...bob ward talked about it in his book...one of the readers sent me an email about it and i accidentally deleted it...if he is still here or if some one else knows where it is please let me know...thanks
Knife Hill
Yes, Dave I can take you there or give you directions, whichever you would like. I'm available most anytime. Send me a private message if you want to meet someplace or have me e-mail you directions and GPS readings.
Grayhair
Grayhair
Knife Hill Reference - Bob Ward
Bob Ward talks about a "Knife Hill" in his book, "Ripples of Lost Echos". Bob takes the reader through a trip up Peralta Canyon following what he claims are "Stone Map Clues". On page 80, he claims that "The hillwhhich you have reached is known as Knife Hill because of the carved knife on the Prealta map drawn at the corner of the mountain. It is the same knife Brownie Holmes found in 1929 but could not remember exactly where he had seen it." Bob also has a picture of a triangle boulder on the south side of Knife Hillthat he believed was part of the Peralta Stone Map directions. On page 5 he shows a picture of engravings atop Knife Hill "pointing to buried treasure".
Suspect Grayhair can tell you exactly where it is.
Good luck in the hunt.
Roger
Suspect Grayhair can tell you exactly where it is.
Good luck in the hunt.
Roger
routes
Hey guys,
Back to your discusion about military trails. Try Frazier road #8. Probably late 1870's. If you find anything let me know. Also, what records are available of Pauline Weaver, Mose Carson and other early explorers along with the men they traveled with from 1832-1850? Pro French-Confederates...Nothing later than that. Where would I look? Does Greg have this info?
Respectfuly,
Jesse J. Feldman
Back to your discusion about military trails. Try Frazier road #8. Probably late 1870's. If you find anything let me know. Also, what records are available of Pauline Weaver, Mose Carson and other early explorers along with the men they traveled with from 1832-1850? Pro French-Confederates...Nothing later than that. Where would I look? Does Greg have this info?
Respectfuly,
Jesse J. Feldman
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Pro French-Confederates?
Jesse,
You should have no problem finding material on Pauline Weaver. Mose Carson is another story. I don't believe there is a great deal of information on the life of Mose. As Christopher (Kit) Carson's half-brother, he got lost in the shuffel.
Two books which will give you a small amount on information are:
"Kit Carson Days, 1809 - 1868: Adventures in the Path of Empire Vol. 1"
The other book has the same name without the "Vol. 1".
I assume you are looking for the history of the man as opposed to the personality. If you can tell me what you are looking for, I will see if I have something.
As for the man, here is a short quote from one of the books above.
"His big half-brother Mose, returned from California, visited him in Taos.
Surgeon Peters chronicles, writing from Fort Massachusetts, January 18, 1856:
At Taos on our way down we were guided by a party consisting of Col. St. Vrain, Kit Carson, Mose Carson (who has lived in California 25 Years) and several officers from the fort adjacent to Taos. Notwithstanding the weather was very cold (the thermometer being 32 below zero) we had a very jolly time--each one telling his own story. Old Mose Carson was the life of the party. He had not been to Santa Fe in 30 years but he amused us much by giving his early adventures there and one story that he told us of turning Catholic to gain a law suit I shall never forget. . . imagine to yourself a man weighing over 200--60 years old--over six feet high with one eye out and minus several fingers--rough and weather beaten from a life on the frontier--you have him I am trying to describe. Then fill his brain with not much education but an unusual amount of good sense and wit and you have him that my hands would fail to do justice to."
That will give you a pretty good picture of Mose Carson.
I don't believe "Pro French-Confederates" fall into the 1832 -1850 time span.
Respectfully,
Joe
You should have no problem finding material on Pauline Weaver. Mose Carson is another story. I don't believe there is a great deal of information on the life of Mose. As Christopher (Kit) Carson's half-brother, he got lost in the shuffel.
Two books which will give you a small amount on information are:
"Kit Carson Days, 1809 - 1868: Adventures in the Path of Empire Vol. 1"
The other book has the same name without the "Vol. 1".
I assume you are looking for the history of the man as opposed to the personality. If you can tell me what you are looking for, I will see if I have something.
As for the man, here is a short quote from one of the books above.
"His big half-brother Mose, returned from California, visited him in Taos.
Surgeon Peters chronicles, writing from Fort Massachusetts, January 18, 1856:
At Taos on our way down we were guided by a party consisting of Col. St. Vrain, Kit Carson, Mose Carson (who has lived in California 25 Years) and several officers from the fort adjacent to Taos. Notwithstanding the weather was very cold (the thermometer being 32 below zero) we had a very jolly time--each one telling his own story. Old Mose Carson was the life of the party. He had not been to Santa Fe in 30 years but he amused us much by giving his early adventures there and one story that he told us of turning Catholic to gain a law suit I shall never forget. . . imagine to yourself a man weighing over 200--60 years old--over six feet high with one eye out and minus several fingers--rough and weather beaten from a life on the frontier--you have him I am trying to describe. Then fill his brain with not much education but an unusual amount of good sense and wit and you have him that my hands would fail to do justice to."
That will give you a pretty good picture of Mose Carson.
I don't believe "Pro French-Confederates" fall into the 1832 -1850 time span.
Respectfully,
Joe
research
Joe,
Thanks for that into. I'm sure they are great books but I bet they don't have just what I need. I will check. I need names of men that were with these early scouts, 1846-1849. Whatever they were doing and where they were at doesn't matter. Pauline Weaver is the man I'm looking for the most but there were many other scouts around and to find the info needed I might have to dig into more general history.
Before the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 pre-Az. was full of people with different interests including French, Indians, Confederates - which there was such a thing in 1848, Unionists, Spanish land grantees, and of course Mexican occupation. The French were Confederate sympathizers until the writing was on the wall in 1848 - that the Union was to have the West. If not for Mormon California Colums here in 1848 under the Union the West may have turned out different. The French were overstretched elsewhere anyway and joining the Mexicans and Confederates would be a big knife in the back of the Union. The saying "If you can't beat them - join them" pertains here.
Now, I know the Union didn't really take the West until after 1864 because of the Civil War. Also Mexican Citizens and Spanish land grantees didn't readily leave after the Gadsden Purchase in 1853, and they still had a big Indian problem. It must have been easy for the Union because they had everything in place. Scouts that knew the issues of the Indians, Mexicans, and Spanish land grants - Men from the war that knew nothing but to kill - And military trained Indians which started way before Poston, Walker, Woolsey with early scouts. Opportunity was in the air.
I hope that gives you a better idea of where I'm coming from. This is probably an impossible task but it doesn't hurt to ask. You may question some of these things and thats fine because I'm open to debate. As always history plays behind the curtains.
Sincerly,
Jesse J. Feldman
Thanks for that into. I'm sure they are great books but I bet they don't have just what I need. I will check. I need names of men that were with these early scouts, 1846-1849. Whatever they were doing and where they were at doesn't matter. Pauline Weaver is the man I'm looking for the most but there were many other scouts around and to find the info needed I might have to dig into more general history.
Before the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 pre-Az. was full of people with different interests including French, Indians, Confederates - which there was such a thing in 1848, Unionists, Spanish land grantees, and of course Mexican occupation. The French were Confederate sympathizers until the writing was on the wall in 1848 - that the Union was to have the West. If not for Mormon California Colums here in 1848 under the Union the West may have turned out different. The French were overstretched elsewhere anyway and joining the Mexicans and Confederates would be a big knife in the back of the Union. The saying "If you can't beat them - join them" pertains here.
Now, I know the Union didn't really take the West until after 1864 because of the Civil War. Also Mexican Citizens and Spanish land grantees didn't readily leave after the Gadsden Purchase in 1853, and they still had a big Indian problem. It must have been easy for the Union because they had everything in place. Scouts that knew the issues of the Indians, Mexicans, and Spanish land grants - Men from the war that knew nothing but to kill - And military trained Indians which started way before Poston, Walker, Woolsey with early scouts. Opportunity was in the air.
I hope that gives you a better idea of where I'm coming from. This is probably an impossible task but it doesn't hurt to ask. You may question some of these things and thats fine because I'm open to debate. As always history plays behind the curtains.
Sincerly,
Jesse J. Feldman
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Wide Search Area
Jesse,
You have obviously been doing a bit of reading.
There were hundreds of old trappers who became scouts and those who rubbed elbows with Pauline Weaver also run into the hundreds. Without more specific information on what you are looking for, your search area is a bit wide.
I have a small book (phamphlet) on Weaver.......somewhere? I will see if I can find it. If you are just looking for names, there are some books which would be of interest. If you are looking for a specific event, it will be like looking for a needle, no pun intended, in a haystack.
Here are a few names:
Lew Jhonson, Dick Wootton, Antoine Leroux, Tom Tobin, Stephan Foster,
Peg Leg Smith, Jean Baptiste Charbonneu and Joseph, Louis and Antoine Rubidoux. A good many more names can be found in: "The Mountain Men & The Fur Trade of The Far West". That is a very small bite out of the elephant you are trying to eat.
If you want some help in your research, you need to reduce your perimeters. I am not sure what you are looking for.
Respectfully,
Joe
You have obviously been doing a bit of reading.
There were hundreds of old trappers who became scouts and those who rubbed elbows with Pauline Weaver also run into the hundreds. Without more specific information on what you are looking for, your search area is a bit wide.
I have a small book (phamphlet) on Weaver.......somewhere? I will see if I can find it. If you are just looking for names, there are some books which would be of interest. If you are looking for a specific event, it will be like looking for a needle, no pun intended, in a haystack.
Here are a few names:
Lew Jhonson, Dick Wootton, Antoine Leroux, Tom Tobin, Stephan Foster,
Peg Leg Smith, Jean Baptiste Charbonneu and Joseph, Louis and Antoine Rubidoux. A good many more names can be found in: "The Mountain Men & The Fur Trade of The Far West". That is a very small bite out of the elephant you are trying to eat.
If you want some help in your research, you need to reduce your perimeters. I am not sure what you are looking for.
Respectfully,
Joe