dutch elm disease : (that's a mouthfull)
I think I'de better wait until I digest the typical view before I get started on the alternate. I'll write it down though, and when I've read the other stuff and think I know it all, I'll treat myself to the alternate view. Thanks for your tip, and your welcome to the nut bin.
Jenkins' lost load
jenkin,s load
WHAT ! What is this? Did you see that Joe ? DED is feeling better agin! I can begin to cleanz him of his filthy liberal habits again. He showed his brazen head again so he must be better now, so it,s open season on him again!!! 
Bill 
Bill -
dutch elm disease
- Part Timer
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:06 pm
bill, yeah im back to full fitness 
but please please please, go easy on me for a while...you know just the odd insult occasionally and gradually build up to the main attack..that kind of thing at the moment im reading bill clintons memoirs..in between listening to "air america " radio..but enuff said aboutthat else the hounds from hell will no doubt be unleashed. by the way bill ive still in possession of my ears some considerable time since you announced your fatwah(is thatthe correct spelling?)take care
but please please please, go easy on me for a while...you know just the odd insult occasionally and gradually build up to the main attack..that kind of thing at the moment im reading bill clintons memoirs..in between listening to "air america " radio..but enuff said aboutthat else the hounds from hell will no doubt be unleashed. by the way bill ive still in possession of my ears some considerable time since you announced your fatwah(is thatthe correct spelling?)take care-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Names
Sluicebox,
The names are not the issue here. What is a problem, is that he went to Canyon Lake to find the evidence that Jenkins and his family were there, and then backtracked them to the area you are talking about.
You are starting your search from 88, just above Government Wells. Don't you think you should start from Canyon Lake?
I have the latest maps and map programs, as well as the older topos.
Many things will change with the times, but Canyon Lake is still Canyon Lake.
Respectfully,
Joe
The names are not the issue here. What is a problem, is that he went to Canyon Lake to find the evidence that Jenkins and his family were there, and then backtracked them to the area you are talking about.
You are starting your search from 88, just above Government Wells. Don't you think you should start from Canyon Lake?
I have the latest maps and map programs, as well as the older topos.
Many things will change with the times, but Canyon Lake is still Canyon Lake.
Respectfully,
Joe
-
Gregory E. Davis
- Part Timer
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:19 am
- Location: Tempe, Arizona
Sluicebox; It sounds to me like your mine tunnel is the one used as a camp site by Jabez Clapp during the late 50's and eary 60's. It would be located on the West side of Hackberry Mesa about 1/4 of a mile north from the trail between Hackberry Springs and Garden Valley. The trail takes off to the North from a small saddle that drains south toward the old First Water Ranch. I am not sure who originally dug this tunnel but Clapp used it as living quarters until his death in l964. There is also another tunnel above it just below the top edge of Hackberry Mesa. Above this tunnel on the flat area just by the edge of the cliff is a large hole dug most likely by the same parties who dug the tunnels. See: The Golddust Gazette, Vol. 1, No.1, December l968, P. 10 to 13. Also the Arizona Republic and Gazette starting with the first week of April l964. The Apache Sentinel carried the story begining with March 27, l964. Hope this gives you a starting point to research the site. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
Gregory:
Yes, that is a very accurate description of the area. I just found the large hole on top of the mesa last weekend when I went to collect some of the old cans and stuff. If it was being used as a camp/living quarters in the 50's and 60's, that narrows my search window quite a bit. It also means I can't use the cans I collected to date the dig itself. Thanks for this great info. I'll start tracking down your refs ASAP.
Regards,
Yes, that is a very accurate description of the area. I just found the large hole on top of the mesa last weekend when I went to collect some of the old cans and stuff. If it was being used as a camp/living quarters in the 50's and 60's, that narrows my search window quite a bit. It also means I can't use the cans I collected to date the dig itself. Thanks for this great info. I'll start tracking down your refs ASAP.
Regards,
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
He Knows.
Sluicebox,
I don't know how familiar you are with the Dutch Hunter Community, but, IMHO, when you get your information from Greg, you should consider taking it directly to the bank. I have heard of others being said to be "the" authority on the LDM, but it's hard to believe there is anyone out there who has the knowledge and reference material of Greg Davis.
I can't imagine anyone who has or is planing on writing a book on the LDM, not spending some time with Greg. I am a little surprised that he did not give you some information on the Jenkins daughters.
There is a peculiar odor to this "Storm" story.
Not to worry, as you have a secure bite on the LDM hook. Your life will never be the same.
I spent my early years on Black Top Mesa with my Uncle Chuck. That was 47 years ago, and I never would have imagined that I would leave that spot behind me. Once you have satisfied yourself that there is no gold in that dig, don't look back. There are views to be seen and adventures to be experienced in every peak, canyon and trail, in the Superstitions.
Respectfully,
Joe
I don't know how familiar you are with the Dutch Hunter Community, but, IMHO, when you get your information from Greg, you should consider taking it directly to the bank. I have heard of others being said to be "the" authority on the LDM, but it's hard to believe there is anyone out there who has the knowledge and reference material of Greg Davis.
I can't imagine anyone who has or is planing on writing a book on the LDM, not spending some time with Greg. I am a little surprised that he did not give you some information on the Jenkins daughters.
There is a peculiar odor to this "Storm" story.
Not to worry, as you have a secure bite on the LDM hook. Your life will never be the same.
I spent my early years on Black Top Mesa with my Uncle Chuck. That was 47 years ago, and I never would have imagined that I would leave that spot behind me. Once you have satisfied yourself that there is no gold in that dig, don't look back. There are views to be seen and adventures to be experienced in every peak, canyon and trail, in the Superstitions.
Respectfully,
Joe
Joe:
I think you're probably right, I was very impressed with Greg's references and his great description and knowledge of the area. Certainly another + for joining this forum.
I had something on my mind as I read your last post. Not to change the subject, but just wondering if you or your companions have ever been shot at in the Supers in those 47 years. Before reading your post I read an article on the net about all the people who have turned up dead in the Supers. I looked for some posts on the subject , but didn't find any. Just wondering if I should upgrade my .22cal pistol before pitching a tent.
Regards, Sluicebox
I think you're probably right, I was very impressed with Greg's references and his great description and knowledge of the area. Certainly another + for joining this forum.
I had something on my mind as I read your last post. Not to change the subject, but just wondering if you or your companions have ever been shot at in the Supers in those 47 years. Before reading your post I read an article on the net about all the people who have turned up dead in the Supers. I looked for some posts on the subject , but didn't find any. Just wondering if I should upgrade my .22cal pistol before pitching a tent.
Regards, Sluicebox
Sluicebox
jenkins load
Sluice; Always have at least a .38 with plenty ammo on your hip when you are out in the wilds like this. You never know but what you may have need of it. It,s better to have and not need it; Than to need it and not have it . for your own safty. There are mean people out there. This goes for anywhere in the U.S.A. Bill
BillJenkins' Lost Lode
Sluicbox,
It appears you and I have traveled pretty much the same trail trying to track down the Jenkin's story. Looks pretty "Barren" in that Willow Creek Canyon to me. I was just reading an ebay auction for a book by the name of Jenkins' Lost Lode and wondering if you or anyone else has any inside information about it or any idea what the new information might be all about?
tc
It appears you and I have traveled pretty much the same trail trying to track down the Jenkin's story. Looks pretty "Barren" in that Willow Creek Canyon to me. I was just reading an ebay auction for a book by the name of Jenkins' Lost Lode and wondering if you or anyone else has any inside information about it or any idea what the new information might be all about?
tc
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Das Booklet
Jenkins' Lost Lode is a booklet by Jim Hatt and contains a forward by Clay Worst. The copyright is 2005.
Seems a little strange that a book that was published this month, is already being offered on an E-Bay auction.
Respectfully,
Joe
Seems a little strange that a book that was published this month, is already being offered on an E-Bay auction.
Respectfully,
Joe
I'll try it again
Joe Ribaudo,
Thank You for your reply, but I think you misunderstood my question. I was FISHING as you guys seem to refer to it, for inside information about the book or the Authors. Everything in your reply is on the Ad at eBay.
Being new to this forum and to Arizona, maybe I should start at the beginning. I have watched this website with guarded interest for about a year now, and am very impressed with the wealth of information extracted from the minds of it's regular members. I have heard stories about the Lost Dutchman Mine all of my life but always considered it to be somewhat of an interesting but mostly Fantasy tale.
I had no idea there was so much documented evidence concerning this Legend until I started reading the postings in this forum. I was totally amazed at the extent of research some of you have gone to in your attempts to sort out the overall credibility of almost every detail of every published piece of work on the subject.
I think I have become a BELIEVER.
Getting back to my initial poorly worded question. Although I haven’t read every single post on this site, I have read almost every one posted in the last year. The names Jim Hatt & Clay Worst are totally unfamiliar to me and I don’t think I’ve ever seen either one of those names on this site other than a casual mention of them having been to visit the digging that is going on somewhere in the mountains.
My curiosity is along the lines of a more personal nature. Not in the way of digging into personal backgrounds, but more in the way of the level of their credibility in “Dutchman” circles. Should a newcomer like myself consider them as someone to be taken seriously, or filed in the folder with the likes of Wyatt Westwood?
While I’m here…………… I’ve been biting my tongue and restraining my fingers to avoid going into this but, I just have to make a comment to Bill711 since he has provided me so much entertainment over the last year. It has become almost a daily ritual for me to print out his postings each morning and attempt to decipher them as I sip my morning coffee. Sometimes I give up and do a word cipher of some other kind to get my mind warmed up and come back for another attempt at Bill711’s post.
I found Dr. Thomas Glover’s comment about teaching a pig to sing extremely appropriate and was not a bit surprised to see that it passed right over it’s intended target and seemed to just fade away.
You seem to be a terrific bunch of dedicated guys with a lot of patience. I guess that is a prerequisite for this type of endeavor?
Anyway, should I bid on this book, wait for the movie, or file the whole idea in the Wyatt Westwood folder?
Respectfully awaiting your reply,
tc
Thank You for your reply, but I think you misunderstood my question. I was FISHING as you guys seem to refer to it, for inside information about the book or the Authors. Everything in your reply is on the Ad at eBay.
Being new to this forum and to Arizona, maybe I should start at the beginning. I have watched this website with guarded interest for about a year now, and am very impressed with the wealth of information extracted from the minds of it's regular members. I have heard stories about the Lost Dutchman Mine all of my life but always considered it to be somewhat of an interesting but mostly Fantasy tale.
I had no idea there was so much documented evidence concerning this Legend until I started reading the postings in this forum. I was totally amazed at the extent of research some of you have gone to in your attempts to sort out the overall credibility of almost every detail of every published piece of work on the subject.
I think I have become a BELIEVER.
Getting back to my initial poorly worded question. Although I haven’t read every single post on this site, I have read almost every one posted in the last year. The names Jim Hatt & Clay Worst are totally unfamiliar to me and I don’t think I’ve ever seen either one of those names on this site other than a casual mention of them having been to visit the digging that is going on somewhere in the mountains.
My curiosity is along the lines of a more personal nature. Not in the way of digging into personal backgrounds, but more in the way of the level of their credibility in “Dutchman” circles. Should a newcomer like myself consider them as someone to be taken seriously, or filed in the folder with the likes of Wyatt Westwood?
While I’m here…………… I’ve been biting my tongue and restraining my fingers to avoid going into this but, I just have to make a comment to Bill711 since he has provided me so much entertainment over the last year. It has become almost a daily ritual for me to print out his postings each morning and attempt to decipher them as I sip my morning coffee. Sometimes I give up and do a word cipher of some other kind to get my mind warmed up and come back for another attempt at Bill711’s post.
I found Dr. Thomas Glover’s comment about teaching a pig to sing extremely appropriate and was not a bit surprised to see that it passed right over it’s intended target and seemed to just fade away.
You seem to be a terrific bunch of dedicated guys with a lot of patience. I guess that is a prerequisite for this type of endeavor?
Anyway, should I bid on this book, wait for the movie, or file the whole idea in the Wyatt Westwood folder?
Respectfully awaiting your reply,
tc
I'll try it again
Joe Ribaudo,
Thank You for your reply, but I think you misunderstood my question. I was FISHING as you guys seem to refer to it, for inside information about the book or the Authors. Everything in your reply is on the Ad at eBay.
Being new to this forum and to Arizona, maybe I should start at the beginning. I have watched this website with guarded interest for about a year now, and am very impressed with the wealth of information extracted from the minds of it's regular members. I have heard stories about the Lost Dutchman Mine all of my life but always considered it to be somewhat of an interesting but mostly Fantasy tale.
I had no idea there was so much documented evidence concerning this Legend until I started reading the postings in this forum. I was totally amazed at the extent of research some of you have gone to in your attempts to sort out the overall credibility of almost every detail of every published piece of work on the subject.
I think I have become a BELIEVER.
Getting back to my initial poorly worded question. Although I haven’t read every single post on this site, I have read almost every one posted in the last year. The names Jim Hatt & Clay Worst are totally unfamiliar to me and I don’t think I’ve ever seen either one of those names on this site other than a casual mention of them having been to visit the digging that is going on somewhere in the mountains.
My curiosity is along the lines of a more personal nature. Not in the way of digging into personal backgrounds, but more in the way of the level of their credibility in “Dutchman” circles. Should a newcomer like myself consider them as someone to be taken seriously, or filed in the folder with the likes of Wyatt Westwood?
While I’m here…………… I’ve been biting my tongue and restraining my fingers to avoid going into this but, I just have to make a comment to Bill711 since he has provided me so much entertainment over the last year. It has become almost a daily ritual for me to print out his postings each morning and attempt to decipher them as I sip my morning coffee. Sometimes I give up and do a word cipher of some other kind to get my mind warmed up and come back for another attempt at Bill711’s post.
I found Dr. Thomas Glover’s comment about teaching a pig to sing extremely appropriate and was not a bit surprised to see that it passed right over it’s intended target and seemed to just fade away.
You seem to be a terrific bunch of dedicated guys with a lot of patience. I guess that is a prerequisite for this type of endeavor?
Anyway, should I bid on this book, wait for the movie, or file the whole idea in the Wyatt Westwood folder?
Respectfully awaiting your reply,
tc
Thank You for your reply, but I think you misunderstood my question. I was FISHING as you guys seem to refer to it, for inside information about the book or the Authors. Everything in your reply is on the Ad at eBay.
Being new to this forum and to Arizona, maybe I should start at the beginning. I have watched this website with guarded interest for about a year now, and am very impressed with the wealth of information extracted from the minds of it's regular members. I have heard stories about the Lost Dutchman Mine all of my life but always considered it to be somewhat of an interesting but mostly Fantasy tale.
I had no idea there was so much documented evidence concerning this Legend until I started reading the postings in this forum. I was totally amazed at the extent of research some of you have gone to in your attempts to sort out the overall credibility of almost every detail of every published piece of work on the subject.
I think I have become a BELIEVER.
Getting back to my initial poorly worded question. Although I haven’t read every single post on this site, I have read almost every one posted in the last year. The names Jim Hatt & Clay Worst are totally unfamiliar to me and I don’t think I’ve ever seen either one of those names on this site other than a casual mention of them having been to visit the digging that is going on somewhere in the mountains.
My curiosity is along the lines of a more personal nature. Not in the way of digging into personal backgrounds, but more in the way of the level of their credibility in “Dutchman” circles. Should a newcomer like myself consider them as someone to be taken seriously, or filed in the folder with the likes of Wyatt Westwood?
While I’m here…………… I’ve been biting my tongue and restraining my fingers to avoid going into this but, I just have to make a comment to Bill711 since he has provided me so much entertainment over the last year. It has become almost a daily ritual for me to print out his postings each morning and attempt to decipher them as I sip my morning coffee. Sometimes I give up and do a word cipher of some other kind to get my mind warmed up and come back for another attempt at Bill711’s post.
I found Dr. Thomas Glover’s comment about teaching a pig to sing extremely appropriate and was not a bit surprised to see that it passed right over it’s intended target and seemed to just fade away.
You seem to be a terrific bunch of dedicated guys with a lot of patience. I guess that is a prerequisite for this type of endeavor?
Anyway, should I bid on this book, wait for the movie, or file the whole idea in the Wyatt Westwood folder?
Respectfully awaiting your reply,
tc
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
To Bid or Not To Bid
TC,
Welcome to the forum. That is a personal welcome and has nothing to do with the management or the rest of these honyokers.
The reason I did not address my reply to you, was because I knew you had seen the auction. That was for others who might be interested.
As to bidding on the book, I can't imagine that would be a good idea, unless it's one of a kind. It's possible that Mr. Hatt only put together one copy, but that would be (kinda) strange.
I know that Mr. Hatt has looked in on this forum from time to time, so perhaps he can enlighten us.
*************************************************************
I went back to the auction and read the rest of the story. The bid is over $36. for the signed and numbered #1 copy. Clay Worst will also sign that copy. I reckon those two signatures are worth a bid.
Here is a direct quote from the auction:
"Such a stir has been created within the Lost Treasure/Lost Mine Dutch Huntin Community over the release of the information in this Booklet that the e-Bay Auction for it has actually been closed early two times before any winning bid was accepted."
The starting bid for the Booklet was $0.99 Since the opening bid (set by the seller) has been met, I assume the auction will not be closed early again.
*************************************************************
I believe Ron mentioned that Mr. Hatt had been to his dig. If so, he can probably clue you in as to how serious you should take his book. The Hatt family has been in this game for quite a while.
Bill has a good time with his act, but don't think he is a dumb Okie. Dr. Glover's comment may have passed over his head, but I would guess he just let it die. There is some obvious background research that comes through the chatter. He works really hard on his character image.
Talk to any two of the members of this forum on the credibility of any Dutch Hunter and you will probably get two opposite opinions. You seem like an intelligent guy, so you will probably want to make your own assessment along those lines.
Thank you for your reply, and good luck.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
Welcome to the forum. That is a personal welcome and has nothing to do with the management or the rest of these honyokers.
The reason I did not address my reply to you, was because I knew you had seen the auction. That was for others who might be interested.
As to bidding on the book, I can't imagine that would be a good idea, unless it's one of a kind. It's possible that Mr. Hatt only put together one copy, but that would be (kinda) strange.
I know that Mr. Hatt has looked in on this forum from time to time, so perhaps he can enlighten us.
*************************************************************
I went back to the auction and read the rest of the story. The bid is over $36. for the signed and numbered #1 copy. Clay Worst will also sign that copy. I reckon those two signatures are worth a bid.
Here is a direct quote from the auction:
"Such a stir has been created within the Lost Treasure/Lost Mine Dutch Huntin Community over the release of the information in this Booklet that the e-Bay Auction for it has actually been closed early two times before any winning bid was accepted."
The starting bid for the Booklet was $0.99 Since the opening bid (set by the seller) has been met, I assume the auction will not be closed early again.
*************************************************************
I believe Ron mentioned that Mr. Hatt had been to his dig. If so, he can probably clue you in as to how serious you should take his book. The Hatt family has been in this game for quite a while.
Bill has a good time with his act, but don't think he is a dumb Okie. Dr. Glover's comment may have passed over his head, but I would guess he just let it die. There is some obvious background research that comes through the chatter. He works really hard on his character image.
Talk to any two of the members of this forum on the credibility of any Dutch Hunter and you will probably get two opposite opinions. You seem like an intelligent guy, so you will probably want to make your own assessment along those lines.
Thank you for your reply, and good luck.
Respectfully,
Joe Ribaudo
ebay auction
Joe
There appears to be a few typos in your "direct quote". This is a good example of why I've kept such a guarded approach about getting openly involved with this forum. Do you have some kind of hidden agenda here?
re: ebay, I have had sellers on ebay end their auctions early (Like 20 minutes before the end of the auction) for items I had bids on and had been watching for a week. I assume because they were not happy with the way the bidding was going, Reason given for ending the auction, "Item no longer for sale". Then, within the hour, it was relisted with a "Reserve Price" on it that wasn't there before.
That seems like a "Foul" to me, so I complained to ebay and I was told that "Any Seller can close any auction at any time for any reason" so I don't think your understanding of ebay rules is quite up-to-date.
Besides, I found his reason given for ending the auction early very understandable, he came right back with an explaination and an appology, and his opening bid was certainly nothing to complain about. What is there for you to be hostile about? I had a Bid in on the auction that he ended early and I'm not upset about it.
There appears to be some hostility towards this book in your posts, I got your drift with the first edition of your post before it was revised, and re-revised which could have been answered with a simple "I've never met either one of them , sorry can't help you" or you could have simply remained silent and let someone who did have some information to offer come foreward. (Guess I've been watching this forum long enough to know you would never be capable that)
Now see what you did! I let you drag me down to your level and I had myself prepared to NOT let you do that!
I don't know how to do your smiley face things or I would make a growling one for you.
TGH
Thank You for your much appreciated input. Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. from someone with some first hand information.
Good or Bad I didn't care, as long as it was first hand and not an assumption or something plucked out the rumor-mill.
There appears to be a few typos in your "direct quote". This is a good example of why I've kept such a guarded approach about getting openly involved with this forum. Do you have some kind of hidden agenda here?
re: ebay, I have had sellers on ebay end their auctions early (Like 20 minutes before the end of the auction) for items I had bids on and had been watching for a week. I assume because they were not happy with the way the bidding was going, Reason given for ending the auction, "Item no longer for sale". Then, within the hour, it was relisted with a "Reserve Price" on it that wasn't there before.
That seems like a "Foul" to me, so I complained to ebay and I was told that "Any Seller can close any auction at any time for any reason" so I don't think your understanding of ebay rules is quite up-to-date.
Besides, I found his reason given for ending the auction early very understandable, he came right back with an explaination and an appology, and his opening bid was certainly nothing to complain about. What is there for you to be hostile about? I had a Bid in on the auction that he ended early and I'm not upset about it.
There appears to be some hostility towards this book in your posts, I got your drift with the first edition of your post before it was revised, and re-revised which could have been answered with a simple "I've never met either one of them , sorry can't help you" or you could have simply remained silent and let someone who did have some information to offer come foreward. (Guess I've been watching this forum long enough to know you would never be capable that)
Now see what you did! I let you drag me down to your level and I had myself prepared to NOT let you do that!
I don't know how to do your smiley face things or I would make a growling one for you.
TGH
Thank You for your much appreciated input. Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. from someone with some first hand information.
Good or Bad I didn't care, as long as it was first hand and not an assumption or something plucked out the rumor-mill.
jenkins lost load
Joe; Doesn,t the bright solor flare illuminated brilliance just bedazzle you. I just wanted to say " I Swan" when I read the note. I was speechless I was so impressed. I know dr. blover is a very knowledgable man and very well educated BUT there just might be something that even HE doesn,t know. I did see his when pigs sing expression. The nite before I was listening to the Amazing Animal Show on the animal channal; They have a animal talent show for animals that do things on it. I listen to a girl play the piano and her pig sang to it. When the girl hit the high note,s the pig sang the hi note,s When the girl played the bass or low notes the pig sang low. I might add that the pig was not sqealing either. The pig won the prize. Now the problem was I could not understand the pig language, now who,s fault is that? BUT if pigs can sing then I have to say that I heard one sing!!!! NOW I make no claims to fame BUT I have found a couple of hidden treasure,s of a few hundred dollar,s that sure fleshed my coin collection out! NOW I lost a load one time: To a pretty little apache girl after the dance one nite. So I,m not doing too bad. bill
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Das Agenda
TC,
You found typos in my quote? Imagine that.
Do I have an "agenda"? I have never met Jim Hatt or Clay Worst. If you have been around the Dutch Hunter Community for any time at all, you are familiar with both names. They are well respected by a good many people that I respect.
You have read a great deal into my post that can't be accounted for by "typos". That shows more than a passing famillarity with me. The first thing that comes to mind is that we have had some discourse before.
I have spent a little time on E-Bay myself. There were a few things that bothered me about this particular auction. I have never seen a "bidders identities withheld" auction on a book. That does not mean it has not happened. I have never seen it happen with an item that is started by the seller for $0.99 That does not mean it has not happened. I found it unusual that the bidding was stopped "two times" on an item that was offered by the seller for $0.99
"so I don't think your understanding of ebay rules is quite up-to-date."
I did not make any statement concerning "ebay rules", so it may be that you are reading a bit more than what I wrote in my reply. I don't really have a problem with that, as most people have a better grasp on the meaning of what I say, these days, than I do.
"There appears to be a few typos in your "direct quote". This is a good example of why I've kept such a guarded approach about getting openly involved with this forum. Do you have some kind of hidden agenda here?"
If "typos" are "a good example of why" you have "kept such a guarded approach about getting openly involved with this forum", you are in for a rough ride here.
Thin skin is not an asset on this forum. It is much better to have the skin of a wolf. Not much bothers those animals and they can bite back with the best of them.
I hope you do well with your auction, and come out a winner. If I were one of the early bidders and there are only fifty bids, I could get the book for a couple of bucks, assuming it is not withdrawn again. Now that would be a lucky (timely) bid.
Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I will try to keep my typos at a minimums.
Respectfully,
Joe
You found typos in my quote?
Imagine that.Do I have an "agenda"? I have never met Jim Hatt or Clay Worst. If you have been around the Dutch Hunter Community for any time at all, you are familiar with both names. They are well respected by a good many people that I respect.
You have read a great deal into my post that can't be accounted for by "typos". That shows more than a passing famillarity with me. The first thing that comes to mind is that we have had some discourse before.
I have spent a little time on E-Bay myself. There were a few things that bothered me about this particular auction. I have never seen a "bidders identities withheld" auction on a book. That does not mean it has not happened. I have never seen it happen with an item that is started by the seller for $0.99 That does not mean it has not happened. I found it unusual that the bidding was stopped "two times" on an item that was offered by the seller for $0.99
"so I don't think your understanding of ebay rules is quite up-to-date."
I did not make any statement concerning "ebay rules", so it may be that you are reading a bit more than what I wrote in my reply. I don't really have a problem with that, as most people have a better grasp on the meaning of what I say, these days, than I do.
"There appears to be a few typos in your "direct quote". This is a good example of why I've kept such a guarded approach about getting openly involved with this forum. Do you have some kind of hidden agenda here?"
If "typos" are "a good example of why" you have "kept such a guarded approach about getting openly involved with this forum", you are in for a rough ride here.
Thin skin is not an asset on this forum. It is much better to have the skin of a wolf. Not much bothers those animals and they can bite back with the best of them.
I hope you do well with your auction, and come out a winner. If I were one of the early bidders and there are only fifty bids, I could get the book for a couple of bucks, assuming it is not withdrawn again. Now that would be a lucky (timely) bid.
Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I will try to keep my typos at a minimums.
Respectfully,
Joe
TC,
I recommend you get the A&E tape on the Lost Dutchman from the Superstition Mountain Museum. Something like $25. It tells the commonly-told story of the LDM quite well, and both Clay Worst and Jim Hatt appear in it and speak on the subject. That'll at least get you a little closer to knowing something about those guys.
I've never heard a single bad word uttered about Clay Worst. He is an icon in the Dutch hunting community, respected and well liked by all. His knowledge on the subject is encyclopedic.
You'd do well to contact him and/or Greg Davis if you want to speak directly to the top people in this field.
Good luck!
- Wiz
I recommend you get the A&E tape on the Lost Dutchman from the Superstition Mountain Museum. Something like $25. It tells the commonly-told story of the LDM quite well, and both Clay Worst and Jim Hatt appear in it and speak on the subject. That'll at least get you a little closer to knowing something about those guys.
I've never heard a single bad word uttered about Clay Worst. He is an icon in the Dutch hunting community, respected and well liked by all. His knowledge on the subject is encyclopedic.
You'd do well to contact him and/or Greg Davis if you want to speak directly to the top people in this field.
Good luck!
- Wiz
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Good Advise
TC,
Wiz has given you excellent advise. If you have not done so already, you might want to pick up Dr. Glover's book. He mentions both of the men you are asking about and (IMHO) has the best book ever written on the LDM subject.
Good Luck.
Respectfully,
Joe
Wiz has given you excellent advise. If you have not done so already, you might want to pick up Dr. Glover's book. He mentions both of the men you are asking about and (IMHO) has the best book ever written on the LDM subject.
Good Luck.
Respectfully,
Joe
Good Morning Joe,
As far as I know, we have not crossed paths. Other than my observations of this website.
From your very first reply to my original post it was obvious that you had a bone to pick with either Clay Worst, Jim Hatt or ebay. Since you say you have never met Clay Worst or Jim Hatt, I am left to assume that you have had a bad ebay experience. Whatever your grief is, you skirted around it in ramblings on and on that never did get around to answering my question. Then you began to focus in on and attack the ebay ad itself for whatever reason I will never understand.
I did not come into this forum looking for conflict.
This forum seems to be the heartbeat and pulse of the Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine and the Super station Mountains. The book on ebay stirred my curiosity and I hoped to get a little insight or inside information about it or the people involved with it from some of the knowledgeable members of this sight.
I sure didn‘t see any way that could lead to conflict. Perhaps you were offended by my comments about your friend Bill711 and the conflict began there, but that doesn’t seem to explain it because your negative focus began before that subject even came up. Any way if that did offend you, I apologize. Bill doesn’t seem to be offended but if he is, I apologize to him as well.
You seem to have a lot of short fuses Joe, It doesn’t take much at all to set you off. I’m on this site now, and I have no intention of leaving, so in an effort to keep the peace and avoid conflict in the future, Please understand that if I wish to ask you a question I will address the post directly to you. If I post something that is not addressed directly to you, I would appreciate it if you would not reply. Since I have no intention of addressing a post to you, and you now know that I am not interested in your opinion, you might say that we have a mutual understanding. Agreed?
Wiz
Thanks for the information. I’ll look that up. I’ve been wanting to see that museum anyway. I have friends that have visited it and keep telling my I should get over there and have a look at it myself. Things that I have to do, always seem to get in the way of things I want to do. Know what I mean?
I’m really interested in this Dutchman thing, and look foreword to getting a little deeper into it. Maybe even take a trip into those mountains sometime. Even though they do seem to cast an evil shadow, as you look at them from town or peer into them from the Apache Trail hwy.
More than anything, I’ve needed, a place to start. As I read the ad about Jenkins’ Lost Lode on ebay, I got the impression that I had found what I was looking for. After reviewing this topic in the forums here, I was reassured that it might be a good place to start.
I’m sorry to have put the readers of this forum through all the unnecessary and unrelated communication that took place following my original question., but I think I have taken the appropriate steps to avoid that in the future.
As far as I know, we have not crossed paths. Other than my observations of this website.
From your very first reply to my original post it was obvious that you had a bone to pick with either Clay Worst, Jim Hatt or ebay. Since you say you have never met Clay Worst or Jim Hatt, I am left to assume that you have had a bad ebay experience. Whatever your grief is, you skirted around it in ramblings on and on that never did get around to answering my question. Then you began to focus in on and attack the ebay ad itself for whatever reason I will never understand.
I did not come into this forum looking for conflict.
This forum seems to be the heartbeat and pulse of the Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine and the Super station Mountains. The book on ebay stirred my curiosity and I hoped to get a little insight or inside information about it or the people involved with it from some of the knowledgeable members of this sight.
I sure didn‘t see any way that could lead to conflict. Perhaps you were offended by my comments about your friend Bill711 and the conflict began there, but that doesn’t seem to explain it because your negative focus began before that subject even came up. Any way if that did offend you, I apologize. Bill doesn’t seem to be offended but if he is, I apologize to him as well.
You seem to have a lot of short fuses Joe, It doesn’t take much at all to set you off. I’m on this site now, and I have no intention of leaving, so in an effort to keep the peace and avoid conflict in the future, Please understand that if I wish to ask you a question I will address the post directly to you. If I post something that is not addressed directly to you, I would appreciate it if you would not reply. Since I have no intention of addressing a post to you, and you now know that I am not interested in your opinion, you might say that we have a mutual understanding. Agreed?
Wiz
Thanks for the information. I’ll look that up. I’ve been wanting to see that museum anyway. I have friends that have visited it and keep telling my I should get over there and have a look at it myself. Things that I have to do, always seem to get in the way of things I want to do. Know what I mean?
I’m really interested in this Dutchman thing, and look foreword to getting a little deeper into it. Maybe even take a trip into those mountains sometime. Even though they do seem to cast an evil shadow, as you look at them from town or peer into them from the Apache Trail hwy.
More than anything, I’ve needed, a place to start. As I read the ad about Jenkins’ Lost Lode on ebay, I got the impression that I had found what I was looking for. After reviewing this topic in the forums here, I was reassured that it might be a good place to start.
I’m sorry to have put the readers of this forum through all the unnecessary and unrelated communication that took place following my original question., but I think I have taken the appropriate steps to avoid that in the future.
In that case, Dr. Glover's book "The Golden Dream" and Jack Carlson/Elizabeth Stewart's book "Hiker's Guide to the Superstion Wilderness" are the two books to have. With those two, you have enough material to get deeply into the subject, explore many interesting places, and come to some conclusions. If you only get two books, get those. I believe they're about $20 and $15, respectively. A bargain!TC1228 wrote:More than anything, I’ve needed, a place to start. As I read the ad about Jenkins’ Lost Lode on ebay, I got the impression that I had found what I was looking for. After reviewing this topic in the forums here, I was reassured that it might be a good place to start.
- Wiz
PS: Warning: If you go on any of Carlson's published hikes, be aware that he is superhuman, and ordinary mortals cannot complete these hikes in the times he lists. IMHO.
PPS: It's a strange path you're starting down. Keep your wits about you. There's much, much more to all this than you imagine.
Wiz
I found Jim Hatt’s e-mail address on the Internet this morning, sent him an e-mail and had a response within 10 minutes. He is an ex-NUKE (Commercial nuclear Power) what a shock! I spent 28 yrs in the Nuclear Navy! Needless to say we had a lot to talk about. He gave me directions to his home and I spent most of the morning with him. Sure is a small world. Turns out he has worked in the Commercial Nuclear Industry with some of the same guys I served on a Carrier with. Before you ask, No, He wouldn’t give me a sneak peak at the inside of the book. I did get the whole story behind the auctions he closed early, but he asked me not to talk about it until after the release date for the book.
He had to go to town so we cut it short and made plans to get together again.
I learned from Jim that Clay Worst was Lecturing at the Museum today and went on up there when I left Jim’s. What a pleasure it was for me to hear Clay’s presentation! It’s very easy to see why he is so well respected and spoke of by all who know him. What an honor it must be for those of you in this forum who know him personally and call him a friend! I did get to meet him after his presentation, shake his hand and tell him how fascinating it was to listen to him speak..
When talking about the Dutchman to both Clay and Jim, I had the feeling that their words were rehearsed or maybe FILTERED would be a better word. If I asked a question that was outside of the rehearsed script, I got that strong feeling that I had committed a Taboo.Help me out here guys, are there Taboos associated with this legend and the primary people involved which are known only to “insiders” and kept secret from individuals that are “not in the loop?” or is it as simple as something I heard Clay say in his presentation? “ Dutch-Hunters are by nature very secretive about their activities concerning their search for the lost Dutchman Mine” or something to that effect.
P.S. Thanks for the info about the two books Wiz. They were on a list of books Jim printed out for me while I was at his house. I picked them up today, but haven’t opened them yet.
I found Jim Hatt’s e-mail address on the Internet this morning, sent him an e-mail and had a response within 10 minutes. He is an ex-NUKE (Commercial nuclear Power) what a shock! I spent 28 yrs in the Nuclear Navy! Needless to say we had a lot to talk about. He gave me directions to his home and I spent most of the morning with him. Sure is a small world. Turns out he has worked in the Commercial Nuclear Industry with some of the same guys I served on a Carrier with. Before you ask, No, He wouldn’t give me a sneak peak at the inside of the book. I did get the whole story behind the auctions he closed early, but he asked me not to talk about it until after the release date for the book.
He had to go to town so we cut it short and made plans to get together again.
I learned from Jim that Clay Worst was Lecturing at the Museum today and went on up there when I left Jim’s. What a pleasure it was for me to hear Clay’s presentation! It’s very easy to see why he is so well respected and spoke of by all who know him. What an honor it must be for those of you in this forum who know him personally and call him a friend! I did get to meet him after his presentation, shake his hand and tell him how fascinating it was to listen to him speak..
When talking about the Dutchman to both Clay and Jim, I had the feeling that their words were rehearsed or maybe FILTERED would be a better word. If I asked a question that was outside of the rehearsed script, I got that strong feeling that I had committed a Taboo.Help me out here guys, are there Taboos associated with this legend and the primary people involved which are known only to “insiders” and kept secret from individuals that are “not in the loop?” or is it as simple as something I heard Clay say in his presentation? “ Dutch-Hunters are by nature very secretive about their activities concerning their search for the lost Dutchman Mine” or something to that effect.
P.S. Thanks for the info about the two books Wiz. They were on a list of books Jim printed out for me while I was at his house. I picked them up today, but haven’t opened them yet.
-
Joe Ribaudo
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Direct Reply
TC,
I went back over my posts on this subject and did not see where I had insulted you Jim Hatt or Clay Worst.
I had no "bone to pick" with E-Bay, you Jim Hatt or Clay Worst. I thought the auction was strange, but after going back and reading the entire page, I felt I should "edit" my post.
I have treated you with respect, and you have turned on me like a wolf who's tail has been stepped on. If I actually had "a lot of short fuses" I would probably call you a name, or curse.
"I did not come into this forum looking for conflict."
For someone who was not "looking for conflict" you have done very well for yourself. After only a few posts, you took it upon yourself to insult bill who has been around for awhile and had not "stepped on your tail".
"....Super station Mountains." Bad typo! Not to worry, as we usually don't point out minor mistakes that do not effect what is being written. 
"I sure didn‘t see any way that could lead to conflict." There is no conflict that originated with me. That leaves you.
"....in an effort to keep the peace and avoid conflict in the future, Please understand that if I wish to ask you a question I will address the post directly to you. If I post something that is not addressed directly to you, I would appreciate it if you would not reply. Since I have no intention of addressing a post to you, and you now know that I am not interested in your opinion, you might say that we have a mutual understanding. Agreed?"
This is where the "conflict" now rests. I am not sure where you get off joining this forum, and immediately sneering and insulting those you believe are "beneath" you, but I will make my own decisions on when to comment and whom to address.
"I’m on this site now, and I have no intention of leaving".
I am sure you "have no intention of leaving". I am just as sure that you had "no intention of leaving" when you were a member in the past. I will venture a guess here, and predict you will once again pick up your marbles and leave because you feel you have been slighted.
"I’m sorry to have put the readers of this forum through all the unnecessary and unrelated communication that took place following my original question., but I think I have taken the appropriate steps to avoid that in the future."
This was your "agenda" from the start. There will be some that don't find that so obvious and they will hang with you until you decide to insult them. That will happen, just as it has in your past attempts to be part of this forum.
Once again, welcome to the forum.
Respectfully,
Joe
I went back over my posts on this subject and did not see where I had insulted you Jim Hatt or Clay Worst.
I had no "bone to pick" with E-Bay, you Jim Hatt or Clay Worst. I thought the auction was strange, but after going back and reading the entire page, I felt I should "edit" my post.
I have treated you with respect, and you have turned on me like a wolf who's tail has been stepped on.
If I actually had "a lot of short fuses" I would probably call you a name, or curse. "I did not come into this forum looking for conflict."
For someone who was not "looking for conflict" you have done very well for yourself. After only a few posts, you took it upon yourself to insult bill who has been around for awhile and had not "stepped on your tail".
"....Super station Mountains." Bad typo!
Not to worry, as we usually don't point out minor mistakes that do not effect what is being written. "I sure didn‘t see any way that could lead to conflict." There is no conflict that originated with me. That leaves you.
"....in an effort to keep the peace and avoid conflict in the future, Please understand that if I wish to ask you a question I will address the post directly to you. If I post something that is not addressed directly to you, I would appreciate it if you would not reply. Since I have no intention of addressing a post to you, and you now know that I am not interested in your opinion, you might say that we have a mutual understanding. Agreed?"
This is where the "conflict" now rests. I am not sure where you get off joining this forum, and immediately sneering and insulting those you believe are "beneath" you, but I will make my own decisions on when to comment and whom to address.
"I’m on this site now, and I have no intention of leaving".
I am sure you "have no intention of leaving". I am just as sure that you had "no intention of leaving" when you were a member in the past. I will venture a guess here, and predict you will once again pick up your marbles and leave because you feel you have been slighted.
"I’m sorry to have put the readers of this forum through all the unnecessary and unrelated communication that took place following my original question., but I think I have taken the appropriate steps to avoid that in the future."
This was your "agenda" from the start. There will be some that don't find that so obvious and they will hang with you until you decide to insult them. That will happen, just as it has in your past attempts to be part of this forum.
Once again, welcome to the forum.
Respectfully,
Joe
-
Jesse J. Feldman
- Part Timer
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:26 pm
- Location: Superstition Mts. Az.
www.dutchhunter.com
To All, tc1228
Has anyone suggested tc1228 go to dutchhunter.com? Im sure he would have lots of fun there. Since you are interested in Clay, tc1228, he is on video at that web site. It may be news to Clay. Clay did a fine job. He understands the big picture on a level above the rest thus giving more credence to our dig and the final outcome, should it be succesful. Something we at the dig can not give ourselves. Thankyou Clay.
tc1228- In answer to your last question - You could use the word taboo but I prefer - sensitive subject. Dutch hunters being secretive is another subject. Protection of their endevers which is usually in the field. Sensitive subjects are - Who killed Adolf Ruth?
I might add to pick up a copy of the book - Crooked Mountain By Ron Feldman. It is at this web site and local locations since you are local. It has much to do with sensitive subjects although it is a novel fiction form.
Sincerely,
Jesse
Has anyone suggested tc1228 go to dutchhunter.com? Im sure he would have lots of fun there. Since you are interested in Clay, tc1228, he is on video at that web site. It may be news to Clay. Clay did a fine job. He understands the big picture on a level above the rest thus giving more credence to our dig and the final outcome, should it be succesful. Something we at the dig can not give ourselves. Thankyou Clay.
tc1228- In answer to your last question - You could use the word taboo but I prefer - sensitive subject. Dutch hunters being secretive is another subject. Protection of their endevers which is usually in the field. Sensitive subjects are - Who killed Adolf Ruth?
I might add to pick up a copy of the book - Crooked Mountain By Ron Feldman. It is at this web site and local locations since you are local. It has much to do with sensitive subjects although it is a novel fiction form.
Sincerely,
Jesse