Jenkins' lost load

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
sluicebox
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Jenkins' lost load

Post by sluicebox »

I jsut joined today (October27,2004) and have a question about the Jenkins gold in Berry Storms book (TGG). I recently visited this area and found the tailings and tunnel at the location I thought the book indicated. I was wondering if anyone here knows who worked this area below Hackberry Mesa and when? Has this been discussed here before ? Thanks
Sluicebox
Joe Ribaudo
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Jenkins Lost Ledge

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sluicebox,

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum. That is a personal welcome and has no connection to the other members or the founders of this site. They will have to submit their own welcomes. :lol:

I am at our store, so this opinion is from memory, which is none to good. :cry:

As I recall, it was a ledge. Is that what you have found?

There is not one scrap of evidence to support this story. It is even more suspect, because the (single) source for the story is, Barry Storm.
(John Clymenson) I think there may have been a newspaper piece, but
if Storm was the source........ :roll:

I don't believe there is a known assay report, and I think it was suppose to have been done in Phoenix.

Jenkins never worked the depostit, as he could never find it again. My guess would be, that someone else came to the same conclusions that you have, and did a little digging.

You should do a little more looking there, perhaps with a metal detector, but any excavation would be against the law. It would be a shame to get into trouble over a barren hole in the ground. :)

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
sluicebox
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Jenkins lost load

Post by sluicebox »

Joe:


Just a note to say thanks for the personal welcome. I was glad to get a reply so soon. I have the 1946 printing of "Thunder Gods Gold", and that was my only source for looking in the area. In the book, Storm provides a photograph and a map. I decided to check the area I thought the photo and clue (mason jar he found from the Jenkins family outing) pointed to. That is exactly where I found the tunnel. There was much more than just a little digging though. The tunnel is in the side of a gulch coming down from the cliffs above. It is a horizontal tunnel about 5 to 5 and a half feet round and very deep. I wasn't prepared with a flashlight as I did not expect to find a tunnel. I will have a good light and a metal detector on my next trip. I don't plan to do any diggin, but was just interested to see if anyone knew the history of the area after Storm wrote his book. There are scores of old rusted tin cans and cooking utinsils in the general vacinity. Perhaps I can use these to date the activity there. Thanks for your welcome and your input.
Sluicebox
Joe Ribaudo
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Timing

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sluicebox,

Thank you for your reply.

Jenkins picked up a "pretty" rock. He did no work, and could never find the same spot again. He looked for a number of years, or so the story goes, without finding a trace of the ledge.

What you have found sounds extensive. If it were "Jenkin's Ledge", a claim should have been filed. I would think that would be a probable, but not a "for sure".

As I recall, Jenkin's ore was very high grade. If what you have found, was his ledge, it's hard to believe it remained a secret.

It appears you know what you are doing, so you should have no trouble ascertaining if there was ever any gold in that location. If it were me, I would start out by detecting below the find. The next thing I would check, would be the tailings. At that point you are left with the tunnel itself.

If you follow that procedure, you will know what you will find before you ever go into the tunnel. Don't want to have a heart attack in a black hole. :lol:

Although many do, it is never a good idea to go into this kind of situation by yourself. Two is OK, but three is much better. Unsolicited advise, from Uncle Joe. :lol:

Again, good luck.

Respectfully,

Joe
azdave35
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jenkins

Post by azdave35 »

form what i could gather about jenkins...he found a piece of float about the size of a human head that was loaded with gold...but he found it in a wash so it could have come from anywhere.....also it was a round rock...so it had tumbled a ways....this info was told to me by an old timer that had been in the sups since the late 1940's
sluicebox
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Post by sluicebox »

Joe:

Thanks for the additional input.

I don't know if a claim was filed or not, but I'm sure its no secret as the tailings are clearly visable from the canyon below once your in the right area. (first water creek on my map) You can see these tailings from where a well traveled trail turns East to SouthEast at Hackberry Springs and goes over to Garden Valley.

Your right about not going alone, and I prefer not to. However, I do go it alone occasionally if I can't inspire someone else. In this case I sent pics to my brother in law and he is ready for the adventure. We are California transplants. I did a lot of placer mining in the San Gabriel Mts. in Southern California, but I am new to this hard rock stuff. Its recreation for me, I don't really plan on getting rich by finding the Lost Duthcman. It keeps my blood flowing. This forum seems like a good place to get headed in the right direction.

Any advice on where to go locally to find out if and when a claim was filed in this area ? I assume it would have to have been between 1946 and 1984. I don't know if mines in a wilderness area get filed with State or Federal Government?
Sluicebox
Joe Ribaudo
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More

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sluicebox,

It's interesting that Storm did not mention this story in his "Trail of the Lost Dutchman", published in 1939. Even more interesting, is the same tale, which you can find by going to HOME on this site. Compare Kollenborn's story with Storm's. Who has the accurate version?
Storm says his source was Bill and Marion Jenkins. That seems to be factual. Where did Kollenborn get all of those extra details? :?

Any claims would be filed with the Counties they were located in.

Dave,

Bill Jenkins died around 1941. If your "old timer" was in the Superstitions from the late 40s, he missed Jenkins and his "rock" by a few years.
It would appear he was telling you something that someone (not Jenkins) had told him.

There are a lot of LDM/Superstition Treasure sources like that. Do you think that's why Kollenborn's version of the story seems a bit more elaborate than Storm's?

Respectfully,

Joe
sluicebox
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Jenkins float ore

Post by sluicebox »

azdave35:
Thanks for the input. By Storms account, the drift ore was from a nearby ledge because " three sides of rock are weather-worn, but fourth side still rough". I'll keep your info in mind as we plan to do some placer inspections downstream where the canyon narrows as it heads for the salt river. It will be interesting to see what type of placer deposits turn up if any.
Sluicebox
sluicebox
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Post by sluicebox »

Joe:

I just read the Jenkins story on this site. It is interesting how gold stories--like fish stories-- sometimes have bigger nuggets and more intriguing details even when retold by the SAME storyteller. Hard to sort out truth from fiction unless you get the details yourself I guess. But we gotta start somewhere.

Thanks for the recording info, I'll get busy on those county records.
Sluicebox
Wiz
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Post by Wiz »

Sluicebox,

I think you are talking about Barry Storm's mine. Jack Carlson mentions it in his book "Hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness" when he talks about the Hackberry Spring/Garden Valley area. It apparently goes quite a ways in. A friend of mine went into it for a hundred feet or more. He didn't report any gold, but then, he's not a miner.
But that mine is one of the scenic attractions of that trail, if we're talking about the same one.
Grayhair
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Gold Stories

Post by Grayhair »

Hi Slucebox,

Welcom to the forum. Thought you and other members might enjoy the following when it comes to gold stories and lost gold mines.

Grayhair

Dolphins Laws of Old Western Mines and Caverns

LAW I: "Inaccessible caverns fill with gold automatically with the passage of time. The greater the lapse of time and the more inaccessible the cavern, the larger the amount of gold."

LAW II: "The total value of loot in an inaccessible treasure horde will increase by at least thirty percent with each re-telling of the original legend---regardless of inflation or the current world price of gold."

LAW III: "The best ore is always to be found in flooded, abandoned old mines. The last miners to work in the mine are always willing to swear on a stack of Bibles that they stumbled onto a great lode of gold on the very same day the mine superintendent ordered the mine to be closed."

LAW IV: "If you wait long enough, an inaccessible treasure cavern will generate an iron door over its concealed entrance and the gold will supplement itself with rusting Spanish armor, the bones of numerous Indian slaves, and a solid gold (or crystal) statue* of the Virgin Mary." Note: *In other parts of the world a solid gold statute of Buddha will do nicely.
sluicebox
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Storms Mine

Post by sluicebox »

Wiz:

Does the Hikers Guide give you any history? I'm wondering if Storm himself went back and started this mine after he wrote (TGG) in 1945, or if someone else worked it and gave it his name because of the Jenkins find reported there in his book? Thanks for the tip, I'll check out your source.
Sluicebox
sluicebox
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inaccessable caverns

Post by sluicebox »

Hello Grayhair, thanks for the welcome.

I'm new to the search for the LDM, but I gotta say I'm convinced. I can't wait to find my first innaccessable cavern. You know, the one that is completely full by now, is the most talked about, flooded at least once, and, I'm not too picky, a golden statue of Budda or the Virgin Mary would do just fine. I think the only other law not mentioned is the one that says it will be in a wilderness area and the whole thing belongs to the government anyway.
Sluicebox
Wiz
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Re: Storms Mine

Post by Wiz »

sluicebox wrote:Wiz:

Does the Hikers Guide give you any history? I'm wondering if Storm himself went back and started this mine after he wrote (TGG) in 1945, or if someone else worked it and gave it his name because of the Jenkins find reported there in his book? Thanks for the tip, I'll check out your source.
No, as far as I remember, it just says the mine was dug by Storm in the 30's or 40's. If you don't have that book, though, it's a great investment. Warning: Carlson is superhuman, and his estimates of how long it takes to get places should be taken with a grain of salt.
Peter3
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Post by Peter3 »

>>I can't wait to find my first innaccessable cavern. <<

I know a swell place that has lots of ICs. Let me know when you are going to attempt to access one...I'd pay to see that ..and have a favorite sitting rock or two already picked out to view the spectacle.

Seriously though, just about every mtn and cliff face in the range has an IC or two.....all filled with phantom gold , of course......
Joe Ribaudo
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Storm Dig

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sluicebox,

You have no problem with Jenkins starting his little hike from the entrance of Willow Spring Canyon, at Canyon Lake and ending up just below Hackberry Mesa?

Respectfully,

Joe
sluicebox
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hike in to hackberry mesa

Post by sluicebox »

Joe:

I didn't hike in that way myself, but from what i've seen of it, it doesn't look like a difficult hike. It does seem like a long trek for a family picnic though. My first look at the canyon came from parking on 88 and hicking up and over. The view I had from the top made it obvious that it would be much easier to start at the other end and hike in from there. I just took pictures the first time and then compared my pictures to the one in Storms book. Comparing the photos to the map, I decided that Hackberry Mesa was the right area and hiked in from the South end.

In response to a point you brought up earlier, about Storm not mentioning this Jenkins story in his 1939 book, I re-read the account in TGG. It seems that Storm didn't make the trip where he supposedly found the mason jar until March of 1942 after Jenkins death.

I've noticed from reading some of the older posts here and elsewhere, that a lot of people don't seem to put much faith in Storms credability. I'm new to Dutch hunting lore and don't really have an opinion about that as yet. So far, my only sources of information are the internet and storms book. From reading some of your other posts, it seems as though you have been around the block a couple of times. Would you care to venture a suggestion as to the best author or the best book for a newbee to get started with?
Wiz
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Re: hike in to hackberry mesa

Post by Wiz »

sluicebox wrote: Would you care to venture a suggestion as to the best author or the best book for a newbee to get started with?
No question - Tom Glover's "The Golden Dream" and Carlson/Stewart "Hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness". If you have those two, you are 80% of the way there (wherever "there" is).
Joe Ribaudo
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Speaking for Others

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wiz,

I don't understand why you think you must comment on every post, even when a question is not directed to you. :lol: :wink:

You are, of course, correct. Thanks for speaking for me, as I was out delivering a wheelchair. :)

Respectfully,

Joe
Joe Ribaudo
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Bit Of A Hike

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sluicebox,

Wiz, as usual, gave some excellent advise.

Personally, I think anyone who is interested in the LDM should read "The Lost Dutchman Mine" by, Sims Ely. Sims and Jim Bark got most of their information on the LDM, from Julia Thomas and Rhinehart Petrasch. They claimed to have gotten every scrap of their story from Jacob Waltz. That seems to be factual, and NO other writer on this subject can make that (one person removed) claim. 8O

This story has changed on a regular basis over the years. New (unerring)
clues have been presented as "true and factual" evidence, as to the location of Waltz's mine. You will have to make your own trail, and you should base it on what you believe is reliable. :)

I believe, for the most part, that the farther you get from the original story tellers, the less truth will be found. Others on this forum will disagree with that statement.

One of the problems with Storm's story of Bill Jenkins, is that he begins from Canyon Lake.

"So on August 4th I was at Canyon Lake verifying the Jenkins' story by their car tracks which I found beside the Willow Creek bridge and by their occasional footprints still visable in sandy places up-canyon." (Emphisis in bold by Joe)

Willow Creek Canyon and the Willow Springs canyon are not the same. Did you start your search from 88, close to Willow Springs Well or Government Well? Neither of those are very close to the beginning of Willow Springs Canyon at Canyon Lake :?

Many good books have been referenced on this site. Hope you have lots of cash. This is an expensive hobby.

Respectfully,

Joe
sluicebox
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Books for newbee

Post by sluicebox »

Wiz:

That was a very assertive and definite answer - the kind that inspires confidence. I like that. I'll purchase these two immediately and get started. Thanks


Joe:

Your confirmation of the two books recomended by Wiz add to my confidence that I'll be getting off to a good start here. I tried looking up "all" the books in cronological order (very confusing) because I wanted to start with sources I thought might be closest to the dutchman himself. Sounds like your third selection will get me off in the direction I was trying to go. Glad I decided to join this forum. Thanks for helping me cut through some of the confusion.

The Canyon Lake/Willow Creek thing was confusing for me at first. I looked on my current map and Willow Canyon and Willow Creek are both west of 88. Then I remembered that Storm had a sort of master map in the front of his book that he uses to point out the approximate location of the clues he talks about in the book. It is on page 22 of my volume. Anyway, on this map he points to an area NorthWest of Hackberry Mesa, and East of 88. On his map it is called Willow Spring Creek. I don't know the date of his map, but on my map it is called First Water creek. Canyon Lake is not on his map, but it must have been the one he was referring to to get the name of the creek involved.

Again, thanks for the info, and helping me get started off on the right foot down the trail to Dutch gold hunting.
Sluicebox
bill711
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clues

Post by bill711 »

Sluice; Think nothing of it; always glad to help. 8) heehaw :lol: bill
Joe Ribaudo
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Willow Springs Creek

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Sluicebox,

Storm actually points to Willow Springs Creek as the location of Jenkins find. That is not close to the area of the excavation that Carlson points out.

Why do you suppose that Storm says he went to Canyon Lake to verify where the Jenkins family started from? Do you know the location of the source for Willow Springs Creek?

It would be nice to hear some validation for this story from one of Jenkins daughters.

Respectfully,

Joe
dutch elm disease
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books

Post by dutch elm disease »

sluicebox,
try sikorskys book..and for the alternate view of the tale....robert blairs book...both excellent works...and by the way welcome to the nuthouse :lol:
sluicebox
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Willow Spring Creek

Post by sluicebox »

Joe:

Did you miss my last post to you, or are we looking at different maps? My current topo map names the creek below Hackberry Mesa as "First Water Creek." Storm started out at Canyon Lake because on the OLDER MAP he was using First Water Creek was named "Willow Spring Creek." I had to use a magnifying glass to read it on the small map he provides in his book. SAME CREEK, just a different name on the newer and older maps. I don't know the date of his map, but it was before the dam at Canyon Lake was built, so it was before that date. He just mis-named the creek below Hackberry Mesa because of his old map.

I guess if one were the P.I. type, it would be possible to find one of the two daughters. Storm gives their names in his book as Mary Ann and Wilma. Apparently they still lived in Tucson in 1942 when Storm returned to find the Mason jar. He doesn't say how old they were then, but I suppose they could still be kickin somewhere.
Sluicebox
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