Coronado's Lost Campsites found with Wyatt Westwood's Photos

[Wyatt Westwood]

On the Trail of Coronado

Arizona State Museum AP Wire Photo Release:


This ASM project is focused on discovering segments of the trail used by the expeditionary force of Francisco Vasquez de Coronado. Between the years 1540 and 1542 the Spanish Army, accompanied by civilians and Indian allies, set out from Culiacan, Mexico in search of Cibola (the Seven Cities of Gold). The expedition followed portions of established Indian trade trails to traverse the vast region of northwest Mexico and what was to become the southwestern United States. At least eleven documented trips were made over all or portions of the trail between Cibola and Culiacan during the mid-sixteenth century. Along it went Coronado's couriers and scouts and small parties returning to Culiacan with ill and discouraged treasure seekers. Undocumented trips over this trail were probably numerous. Those segments of trail that might exist in Sonora, Mexico and in the United States, particularly in the vicinity of southeastern Arizona or southwestern New Mexico are of interest to this study.

The search for Coronado's trail is based on the premise that portions of the trail were used by Indians hundreds of years before and probably for decades after Coronado's return trip to Mexico in 1542. Besides being a well used Indian road we might expect that the expeditionary force left behind inscriptions, shrines and temporary camps with associated features and that members of the expeditions lost or discarded along the trail a variety of identifiable Spanish-Colonial period artifacts.

Current research has focused on documenting 16th, 17th and 18th century Spanish-Colonial artifacts in private and public collections. The distribution of Spanish artifacts found in isolated context over the landscape of southeastern Arizona, southwestern New Mexico and portions of northern Sonora will be plotted. The distribution of Spanish-Colonial artifacts will determine the locations for remote sensing studies and ground surveys in an attempt to find trail segments.

Wyatt Westwood (Bill Riley) has sent John Madsen of the Arizona State Museum, Photo's of the Coronado Trails and major Campsites of him and his men. These photo's he has given access to the State Museum experts along with information on the cactus mapping systems used to mark trails by Coronado and his men. Mr. Wyatt Westwood is indeed helping the State Museum Archaeologists in their quest for the answers to the Famous Lost Trails of Coronado's Expedition with his vast knowledge of the Coronado lost trail and Camp Site Mapping systems.

John Madsen the Archaeologist in charge of the expeditions can be reached at the Arizona State Museum's Website.



Wyatt Westwood

[Peter3]

So what you're telling us is that sending photos to someone who works for a museum makes you sane? I'd be interested to know which of your personas sent the pics...Wyatt, Blackbeard or Bill?

Interesting...

[Wiz]

Interesting indeed...

Here is the actual text of the statement, from the web site of the Arizona State Museum in Tucson. The name Wyatt Westwood is conspicuously absent from this version. See it yourself at:
http://www.statemuseum.arizona.edu/arch/arcprojs.shtml

"On the Trail of Coronado
This ASM project is focused on discovering segments of the trail used by the expeditionary force of Francisco Vasquez de Coronado. Between the years 1540 and 1542 the Spanish Army, accompanied by civilians and Indian allies, set out from Culiacan, Mexico in search of Cibola (the Seven Cities of Gold). The expedition followed portions of established Indian trade trails to traverse the vast region of northwest Mexico and what was to become the southwestern United States. At least eleven documented trips were made over all or portions of the trail between Cibola and Culiacan during the mid-sixteenth century. Along it went Coronado's couriers and scouts and small parties returning to Culiacan with ill and discouraged treasure seekers. Undocumented trips over this trail were probably numerous. Those segments of trail that might exist in Sonora, Mexico and in the United States, particularly in the vicinity of southeastern Arizona or southwestern New Mexico are of interest to this study.

The search for Coronado's trail is based on the premise that portions of the trail were used by Indians hundreds of years before and probably for decades after Coronado's return trip to Mexico in 1542. Besides being a well used Indian road we might expect that the expeditionary force left behind inscriptions, shrines and temporary camps with associated features and that members of the expeditions lost or discarded along the trail a variety of identifiable Spanish-Colonial period artifacts.

Current research has focused on documenting 16th, 17th and 18th century Spanish-Colonial artifacts in private and public collections. The distribution of Spanish artifacts found in isolated context over the landscape of southeastern Arizona, southwestern New Mexico and portions of northern Sonora will be plotted. The distribution of Spanish-Colonial artifacts will determine the locations for remote sensing studies and ground surveys in an attempt to find trail segments. If you have information or would like more information pertinent to this study please contact:
John Madsen
Arizona State Museum
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721 "

[azdave35]

looks like our old buddy wyatt got caught in another lie .....what a dork

[Peter3]

Wiz,

But dont you know they would delete all mention of Wyatt on the official site because if the public knew that he was involved there would be a huge national clamor of treasure seekers hounding them due to the workings of Wonderful Wyatt Westwood? Thats obviously the reason he is not in the official version..or maybe theres an Area 51-style cover-up...anything is possible in dealing with the mentally ill. (The First Amendment forum comes immediately to mind here...)

Curly...err Peter (speaking of mentally ill...lol)

[Joe Ribaudo]

Peter,

I knew you were a closet First Amendment Forum Fan.

Not to worry, as we are all friends here and you will have no trouble finding help for your addiction.

Respectfully,

Joe

[Peter3]

Goodness gracious.....

Has anyone actually read any of those posts in the 1st Amendment Forum? I actually have not spent any time there (fantasy football time u know....), but read thru some of them tonite. Boy they use a whole bunch of dirty words!

P

[Joe Ribaudo]

Peter,

"anything is possible in dealing with the mentally ill. (The First Amendment forum comes immediately to mind here..."

"Has anyone actually read any of those posts in the 1st Amendment Forum? I actually have not spent any time there (fantasy football time u know....), but read thru some of them tonite. Boy they use a whole bunch of dirty words!"

You must still be on New York time, if you think 3:54 is "tonight". Junkies will never admit they are addicts, even if caught in the act.

I must assume you didn't get out much back east, if the only thing you got out of reading that forum was "dirty words". To shocked to find any ideas in there?

Now, old Wyatt.....has come up with a topic that really has some interesting history behind the story. Coronado's journey thru Arizona and New Mexico to find the "Seven Cities of Cibola", actually six Ashiwi (Zuni) pueblos, is a fantastic tale.

The actual trail that Coronado took is in some dispute. A good many of the places he visited are not.

There are many old ranches, ghost towns and modern-day cities and towns that are said to lie directly on the path that Coronado traveled.
The Ellison, Dagger, H&E and Dee Wear are a few of the old ranches that I am aware of. I am not sure if they all exist today. I imagine some were bought up by folks from back east.

It is likely, after crossing the Gila River, that they marched north towards the Pinal Mountains and went thru the Globe area. After crossing the Salt (probably at Horsehoe Bend) things get a little dicey. There is some thought that he turned west along the Salt and then north around the Sierra Ancha Wilderness Area towards Pleasant Valley. The other possibility is that after crossing the Salt, that they followed Cherry Creek
north, and turned east about ten miles south of Pleasant Valley.

While all of this sounds like a very nice way to spend a little time, it was a real man and animal killer. Just think of crossing the Mogollon Rim country without roads. Coronado spent fifteen days crossing, what they called the "despoblado", Which was a hundred miles of mountains. Much of the trip was over waterless desert and some of the roughest mountains in the Southwest.

On July7, 1540 the first major battle between Native Americans and Europeans took place. Coronado believed he was at Cibola. In reality, they had arrived at a small pueblo on the edge of the Plain of Hawikuh. Were they imagining the riches within the rocky pueblo, probably not. The Spaniards were starving to death, and it is likely they had other treasures in mind, such as FOOD, which brings us back to "Spam" and the Jesuits.

There are a lot of really good books which can give you the history of this momentous expedition. I have read a few.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[woodreau71]

Mr Ribaudo, I would be interested to know the title of either of these books. I didnt know how much was fact or imagination after " the legends" post. It sounds like a good read, so if you know the title it would be much appreciated.

woodreau71

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wyatt,

It is very kind of you to help Dr. Madsen with his project. He found your e-mail and pictures interesting. At this time he has no one assisting him with his research, but I have no doubt, once he gets a good look at your information, that he will be giving you a call.

While he has yet to answer your e-mail, I have it on the very best authority that he does "appreciate the interest the public has in the Coronado expedition". He also has mentioned that he does "enjoy the many ideas people have about early routes". You would be one of those "people".

This is quite a feather in your cap, Mr. Riley. Let us know how your collaboration with Dr. Madsen and the Arizona State Museum progresses.

Best wishes in this new direction you are taking.

Joe Ribaudo

[Joe Ribaudo]

Peter,

Now that was "dead-pan".

Respectfully,

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

Woodreau,

Saying that I had read a "few" books on the subject was just a figure of speach. I may have read a bit more than two.

It is a little hard to know where to start here, as I don't know your reading habits or how much you really want to know.

One of the more informative books that I have read, would be:

"Coronado's Quest : The Discovery of the Southwestern States" by,
A. Grove Day.

Chapter six begins with this: THERE IS NO DOUBT whatever that the Seven Cities of Cibola, which Francisco Vasquez Coronado was about to enter, were the group of pueblos occupied then, as now, by the Zuni tribe of Indians on the upper stretch of the river of that name, in the shadow of the dark ranges on the New Mexico side near the Arizona boundary. The idea that there were seven of these villages was a preconception stemming from the old myth of Antilia; Jaramillo truthfully recorded that there were only six."

Something a little less of a time consuming read, would be to look at:
"History of Arizona" by, Thomas Edwin Farish. Vol. 1, Chapter 3 Another concise look at the subject would be found in Chapter 4 of, Marshall Trimble's "Arizona: A Cavalcade of History".

A final, but by no means lesser book, would be Douglas Preston's, "Cities of Gold: A Journey Across the American Southwest". If you would like to get the real flavor of Coronado's expedition, this is the book to read.

Good hunting,

Joe Ribaudo

[Wyatt Westwood]

Do you boys honestly think I would sell ya some snake oil?







-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Riley [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 10:04 AM
To: [email protected], Arizona State Museum
Subject: Coronado's City of Cibola



Hi Bill,

Thank you for your emails. I am forwarding your emails on to one of our Coronado scholars, John Madsen. John is an expert in Coronado-era artifacts and has been studying the Coronado trail for some time. He will contact you regarding your photos, but if you have any further thoughts, please don't hesitate to email or phone me.

All the best,
Chip








-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Riley [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 11:30 AM
To: [email protected], Arizona State Museum
Subject: Coronado's Trail 2




Hi Bill,

Thanks for this follow-up email. Very interesting to hear about your interests! I have forwarded the Photo's on to John Madsen Arizona State Museum Archaeologist and Colleague of mine in Charge of Mapping Coronados Trail, I hope you don't mind, but I wanted him to know some of the Fantastic Campsite and Trail Mapping details you sent me.

Best wishes,
Chip











To: Doug Kreutz
From: [email protected]
Date Time: 8/23/2004 1:22:13 PM
Subject: Re: Coronados Trail

Bill,

Thanks for the note about Coronado's Trails and Camp Sites. Sounds like you've found some fascinating stuff
out there.

Best,

Reporter
Doug Kreutz
Arizona Daily Star



Eat my dust.

[rochha]

Arizona Bill,

How many personalities do you have Billy?

While I think it is nice of you to help out in this man’s research, but the only one saying that one of Coronado’s Campsites has been found is you!!!!! Why don’t you wait before making anymore fantastic claims of discovery till a “ real “ expert determines if in fact you have found something of historical value pertaining to Coronado? Than you will know for sure. When John Madsen say’s that you have then I along with everyone else will believe it then.

As far as snake oil,,,,,,” why yes “

Rochha

[Wiz]

Wyatt,

Why don't you just stop?
Those messages, even supposing that they are undoctored by you (which I doubt), read as nothing more than "Thanks for your interest, don't call us, we'll call you" form letters.
Why don't you just stop the bullshitting?
Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf? If you ever do come up with a valid find, nobody here is going to believe a word of it because you have completely destroyed your credibility. This is not a site full of crystal gazers and granola eaters, like other sites you post on.

This is advice from someone who honestly bears you no ill will whatsoever. Why don't you just fucking stop?

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wiz,

Pretty tough talk, from a guy who just wants us all to "just get along".

That kind of language may just drive Peter back to the "First Amendment"
Forum, where we are a little more genteel these days.

Trying to reason with Billy, is an exercise in fuBility. He has his own agenda in this life, and no one can sway him from his (imagined) position of importance. Nice try though.

Respectfully,

Joe

[Peter3]

Mr Wiz,

Please.......my ears.......(or is it "eyes" on a forum?)

Ouch

P

[Joe Ribaudo]

Peter,

Your choices seem limited.

Perhaps... your mind?

Being Sicilian, I prefer a razor sharp blade to a ballpeen hammer.

Your last comments to me, in Apache, would fall under the "ballpeen" heading.....so to speak.

Respectfully,

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

Just before leaving the modern-day boundries of Arizona and crossing into New Mexico, Coronado more than likely passed through the confluence of the Little Colorado and Zuni Rivers near the Stinking Springs Mountains.

This area is sacred to the Zuni and is now mixed with the legends of the Zuni and the physical presence of the Coronado Expedition. While Coronado was searching for the Seven Cities of Gold, Zuni legend has their ancestors emerging into this world from a water-filled opening in the earth somewhere near the Colorado River, and begining a search for "Halona: Itiwana", the Middle Place. This was the center of the Earth, a place of perfect balance where the Zuni would find their home. The story, as told by the Zuni, is something that has been passed down over smokey campfires through generations. It is a story filled with hope, fear, pain, death and eventual triumph. It culminates beneath the heart of a giant spider. that place became "Halona, the Middle, and the pueblo home of the Zuni.

Perhaps if you visit the winter Shalako dances, you can find a Zuni elder who will tell you the entire story.

A good deal of Coronado's path through southern Arizona was the trail that the Chircahua Apache used to reach Mexico, and the plunder they could not resist.

Respectfully,

Joe

[Wyatt Westwood]

Good by Boys, I found it!

[Wyatt Westwood]

No News is Good News!

[Wiz]

*sigh*
Well, I tried.

OK, "Dark Lord of Penitent Mens Gold", "Guru of Treasure", "Legendary Treasure Hunter they call The Legend Hunter" (whoever "they" are), have it your way. You know it all and nobody else knows anything. Why waste your time trying to educate a bunch of undeserving simpletons like us? Why not go spend your time with your devotees? Those who actually believe you? Your fellow Crank Yankers. There must be millions of them, waiting for you to reveal the TRUTH to them, and then walk on water.
Surely they deserve your attentions far more than we bumpkins. We mere mortals who read your posts on this and other sites, and laugh until our sides hurt. That is the attention you get here. If that's what you want, well, that's fine with me.

Billy, I still bear you no ill will. It's just sad to see such a pathetic display from a grown man, trying to be noticed. Good luck, and I hope you find what you're looking for.

[rochha]

Arizona WayBilly:

You Wrote:

" When my Treasure Hunting Show comes out as a special on TV? When my Treasure Hunting Book Comes out as a best seller? When I'm Giving Lectures to the Archaeological Society on Treasure Hunting?
When I have the University of Arizona funding my Treasure Hunting projects? "

Time for your medication again Billy

Rochha

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wyatt........,

I had no idea you were such a mover and shaker. Once Dr. Madsen gets a good look at your TV special, he will have to take notice of your e-mail and pictures, as well as the rest of us.

I was just wondering, could you name one (1) treasure hunting book that was on the "Best Seller List"? Do you know the name of one (1) other treasure hunter that has given "Lectures to the Archaeological Society on Treasure Hunting"? Can you name one (1) University anywhere in the world that has funded any "Treasure Hunting projects"? I don't have a clue as to those answers, but suspect you would know these things.

I just want to learn a little more about you, and how you think, before I get in line for that "Best Seller". Since you deleated most of your early posts, you're a mystery to us all, I'm sure.

It seems we have run out of topics on the LDM/Superstitions, so we will be able to entertain you for a while longer. As soon as someone starts a topic concerning the habits of the, rather famous, Bluff Spring Mountain, three legged Tit Mouse, I fear you may find our attention flagging. At this point we are all waiting to see what you will say next. I doubt we will have a lengthy wait.

Joe Ribaudo

[bill711]

www; the arch. society will kick your stinking ass for messing up the treasure sight,s, you dumb bell. I don,t think any treasure hunting book has ever sold over 3 doz. copy,s hence the high assed price. I have no dought they will line up for you. Bill