waltz covered his mine??

[Joe Ribaudo]

Peter and Wiz,

>>Wow!
You're good!<<

"Dam right I am."

It's amazing how the two of you always seem to be on the same channel at the same time. Great minds I guess. Thankfully you keep these little comments brief, or it might take Mr. Wyatt to figure out what you are talking about. Actually Peter, I prefer it when you switch to Western Apache, because I can figure out most of what you are saying then.
My guess would be we use the same dictionary.

It is always fun peering through the looking glass, into the world of Wiz and Peter. Never know when the rabbit will pop up, or which hole he will come out of. Won't bother to quote you here Peter.

Thanks. Can't stop at the two of you.

Respectfully,

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

S.C.,

It is always great to see you posting on any topic. I know I am in for some interesting and factual information.

I think I mentioned that the John Reed that I was talking about had nothing to do with the LDM, but that would only be a guess and without factual evidence.

On the other hand, the information concerning the St. Louis meeting and the parties involved leaves some room for speculation. Is it possible that a connection between the families involved is being hidden for some reason? That makes a lot of sense to me, despite the letter and information you have access to.

There are any number of reasons why this story may be made up out of whole cloth. Actually the close relationships of the people involved becomes the motive. Not having the connections or possible commitments that you and Peter seem to have, I have no reason
not to continue looking into this little puzzle.

Once you mentioned the meeting in St. Louis, the contention that "my" John Reed had nothing to do with the LDM (yours and mine), it became
a little more possible that we could both be wrong.

I have said before that the LDM has nothing to do with what I am looking for in the Superstitions (maybe a little), but I am interested in the history involved, and things like this only make it more interesting.

Thanks for the nudge Peter.

Respectfully,

Joe

[bill711]

Jow; I think peter and the Wiz are just like the 2 old crows sitting on the fence we used to see in the comic books.. one says HAW and the other says CAW. PETE; the pig was on tv animal channel the show was called those amazing animals where contestant,s show off how smart their pet,s are. The pig sang to a piano and then did trick,s for his girl owner. YES she was very very pretty tooo. DED; YOU take things tooo seriously loosen up and relax. Get you a good chew of days work or something. The fights are not that serious it,s just something that we use to thresh out our opinions. DO not take them serious or personal!! What we do to keep everyone awake. If we didn,t have some fights then it would be safe to say we didn,t have very deeply held opinions. BUT win or lose in the end nobody is really mad or anything. Don,t take it seriously. Bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

Bill,

Pray for the crows.

Respectfully,

Joe

[bill711]

Joe; I,ll try BUT you know how it is sometimes... Bill

[P]

>>Jow; I think peter and the Wiz are just like the 2 old crows sitting on the fence we used to see in the comic books.. one says HAW and the other says CAW.<<

Just goes to show you that the folks who say that given word processors and a million years even a chimp will pound out Shakespeare are correct.....Why Wiz and myself caw and haw at each other often....
Thats a good one...

Bill,

Ya think that pig is any relation to Arnold from Green Acres?

Joe

>>Actually Peter, I prefer it when you switch to Western Apache...<<

bichog inaa'

see if you find that in your dictionary.....


P

[bill711]

Pete; I don,t think so, We got arnold over the outside antenna, I got this thru thr dish sat. He didn,t sound that bad for a pig. BUT the girl about 20 was pretty enough I would have tried a trick or 2 for her if she asked me to.... Bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

Peter,

While that might be something you are familiar with, being from back east and all, it is not something that has ever, or will ever be on my plate.
I will conceed that you are the expert on that subject.

Perhaps I was wrong about us having the same dictionary.

Since I can't picture what you are saying, it follows that we can't exchange words in the manner of the Apache. It would be good if you would try again, and attempt to raise the level of your discourse. It is obvious that you have written the words, with little thought. Words are not thought, which brings us back to people reading without understanding what the words, placed together, mean.

I realize that this post will probably not have the desired effect, and I may receive more of the Apache words, in their lowest form of intelligent thought, but I will not respond to that again.

What is called for here is:

Bini' naayik'e'iziig.

Perhaps that would not hurt either one of us.

Respectfully,

Joe

[dutch elm disease]

bill,
did you know that pigs like classical music and have been known to writhe about in ecstasy at the mere hint of the opening strain of ravel's "bolero".as a less astonishing fact,though they also have peripheral vision and can view the world through an 145 degree viewpoint.whether or not they engage in tagteam contests im not certain....as a side issue..didnt the waltz own a pigor two?

[Wiz]

Peter and Wiz,

>>Wow!
You're good!<<

"Dam right I am."

It's amazing how the two of you always seem to be on the same channel at the same time. Great minds I guess. Thankfully you keep these little comments brief, or it might take Mr. Wyatt to figure out what you are talking about. Actually Peter, I prefer it when you switch to Western Apache, because I can figure out most of what you are saying then.
My guess would be we use the same dictionary.

It is always fun peering through the looking glass, into the world of Wiz and Peter. Never know when the rabbit will pop up, or which hole he will come out of. Won't bother to quote you here Peter.

Thanks. Can't stop at the two of you.

Respectfully,

Joe

Hee hee! He thinks we're the same person!

Don't spend too much time trying to decode it, Joe. It's plain english. You probably don't recognize it without the veneer of condescension or thinly-veiled sarcasm that generally accompanies your posts. Just read the exchange and take it for what it says. It was only seven words.
If Peter and I appear to be on the same channel, it may stem from the fact that none of those elements have ever entered into posts between us. Peter has always been civil to me, and I to him. He is one of the relatively few people on this site whose opinions I value and take seriously. Most of the others are gone now.

Does this fit into whatever theory you're working on?

[P]

>>Hee hee! He thinks we're the same person!<<

He's not alone. But as I have pointed out to some folks in the past..that just aint so...

[Wiz]

Wait... did you say that, or was it me?

[bill711]

No I didn,t know that But I know that most animals do like music. I know that if a pig has the room He will eat in one corner and crap in the catacorner from it as far away from his eating area as he can get. A pig will stay as clean as he can get. BUT he doesn,t sweat so he has to wallow in the mud to stay cool. He will take a bath if he has a pond or creek to lay in. Waltz; I read where he had chicken,s and grapes for wine, BUT I bet he probley had a pretty good garden too with pigs since pork was pretty scarce in the old west. Bill

[P]

>>Wait... did you say that, or was it me?<<

Caw caw...oops wrong venue......

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wiz and P,

Thanks for the clarification on what you understood my posts to mean.

It's nice to have my point proven over and over again. Do you call or email each other before issuing these pearls of wisdom? There does seem to be some form of collaboration required for your complicated
reasonings.

Rest assured, I firmly believe that no one person could keep coming up with this stuff.

We all know who Peter is and everyone knows who I am, so why don't we pull the mask off of Wiz? Too famous? Try to keep it real boys.

Respectfully,

Joe

[P]

>>Do you call or email each other before issuing these pearls of wisdom?<<

Nah, we just use the mountain telegraph.

Kidding aside, how many folks saw that storm last night? We got plastered here in SE Mesa. Saw it way off about an hour and a half before it struck here. Looked like the northern end of the Supes got a good going over before the storm headed my way. I'd wager a water tank or two was filled up in the mtns last nite...

[Joe Ribaudo]

Peter,

Since you ragged on me for not riding into the Superstitions during a thunderstorm, I feel a word of caution may be in order. While the storm over the mountains is a beautiful thing to view from Mesa, it can be deadly for anyone foolish enough to take a hike into the higher elevations. You mentioned that your are starting to do some short excursions into the range. Once you experience a real storm in the Supes, lightning dancing across the ground (sideways) you will have a little more respect for storms. Boulders moving down a canyon have a way of widening the eyes a bit as well. Mean camps are one thing, walking into the Supes with lightning bouncing off of and around the landscape is something else. No need to spit into the wind.

Having lived in the Rockies, I know of more than a few people and strings of horses that have been killed by such storms. In other words, my friend, take care.

Respectfully,

Joe

[woodreau71]

I sincerely appreciate all the information you put in all your posts. I was wondering if you can recommend further reading. I guess I need to do more research and take notice of other accounts of what happened. In reading the other forums I have heard the name helen corbin's book several times, can you recommend any others

[P]

Woodreau,

Besides Corbins stuff you might want to try the following authors:

Dr Thomas Glover
Robert Sikorsky
Estee Conatser
Sims Ely
Barry Storm
Oren Arnold

That pretty much runs the gamut from the solid histories to the innane, but will give you a good idea of the history and legend of the LDM. Tom Glovers book is best, Arnolds the most romantic (then again so is Storms).

Good hunting

Peter

[P]

Woodreau,

One more thing. If you can obtain back issues of the SMHS Journals, there is a wealth of information within the pages.


I beleive you can order back issues from the SMHS directly at:

http://www.superstitionmountainmuseum.org/

[Joe Ribaudo]

Woodreau,

Peter has given you some excellent choices. Dr. Glover's book is so far above the rest, that you could actually get everything you need by reading and rereading it a number of times.

Here are a few others that can also help:

"Hiker's Guide to the Superstition Wilderness" by, Jack Carlson and Elizabeth Stewart is a must. This book is such a "top choice", that Dr. Glover used it for cross references in "The Lost Dutchman Mine Of Jacob Waltz". Can't get a better recommendation than that.

"The Sterling Legend" by Estee Conatser has some really good information in it.

"Tales of the Superstitions" by, Robert Blair is a very well researched book, although there is a good deal of disagreement with his conclusions.

Once you really start looking, there will be no shortage of choices.

Good luck.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Wiz]

Don't forget the numerous manuscripts for sale from the SMHS bookshop, e.g., the Brownie Holmes, Al Morrow, Alfred Lewis, etc.
While these guys may not add a lot of new information, their manuscripts give some insight into how they felt about things and what they thought about the LDM.
Also there's the A&E tape from the SMHS. You can't get a better intro to the Dutchman story as commonly told than that.

Finally, try Doug Stewart's web site for as complete a bibliography of LDM-related books as you'll find anywhere. Go to:

http://www.lost-dutchman.com/

Doug is the quintessential LDM book collector, and gives his opinions on everything.

[bill711]

JOE; If I remember correctly the Waltz told Helen and Rhieny that when he saw that someone had been messing with the mine. He cleaned and tidyed up around the shaft and rock walled the tunnal up. NOW we have the 2 soldier,s that come along and see the mine tailing dump and they investigate. They find a shaft with rich ore just laying around and down hill below a tunnal that had been walled up with rock. SO the soldier,s and deering must have been to the mine AFTER the WALTZ was there....IF any of the saying are true... Bill