The two soldiers gold

[RU Kidding]

I was wondering if anyone knew what ever became of the jar of gold left in the Silver King's safe by the 2 soldiers (with a slip of paper containing their names?) Has ther ever been an attempt to learn their identities?? Did they exist? Just wondering.

[P]

The mason jar with the ore and the slip of paper containing their names was supposedly sent to Aaron Mason's wife in NY. Whether or not this is true I do not know.

I have done some amount of research into Ft McDowell muster rolls. The problem is the following:

1) Many soldiers were discharged back in the 1880s and the only notation for example is: "2 Privates discharged May 1883". In some instances there are names, but unless an old journal/diary/letter is unearthed that names names....their real identity is only a source of conjecture.

2) It is not 100% certain that hey were discharged from Ft McDowell. They could have been discharged from Ft Whipple and simply passed through McDowell. We just do not know for certain.

I am certain the story took place pretty much as legend tells. Why?
Anecdotal evidence that is extremely strong in my opinion. Along with the actions of those that were also related to the Soldier story (Deering, Chunning, Pankin and the Swamper). And there really IS a grave in Barkley Basin...the loneliest grave I ever saw.......

[Ron]

Just to add a thought or two. I too have spent time in trying to run down the soldier's names. However , I think the date of this occurence may have been earlier. I found a claim called the Sky Blue, I suppose most know where that area was. At any rate it was claimed by a couple men, one of which was James Rogers. It was filed at the request of Aaron Mason, dated 1877. This area became active and known as the Sky Blue during the Dutchman's time, and I believe the soldier's time. Maybe Mason's name is on claim, or I should say his request because what he found out from the soldiers. I ordered the muster records from WashingtonD.C. from 1875- mid !880's, but as you said to no avail. If anyone wanted to see them , I gave them to Greg Davis. I, too would like to see the gold allegedly left to Mason , if it exists.

[RU Kidding]

It would be interesting to compare a sample of the gold from the soldiers jar to the ore from under the Dutchman's bed eh?? Btw, what a fine gentleman Ron is-I called him last year when the forests were closed due to fire restrictions and wasted a good 1/2 hour of his time asking dumb questions. He never gave any hint that he was in a hurry to go or that I was blabbering on like a fool! Thanks for your patience Ron!

[Joe Ribaudo]

Ron,

I gave these two names to Peter in the hope that he might find them in some of the records he has dug up. No reason everyone shouldn't have them.

"Sanders" and "Anderson" are hand written at the top of page 59 in my uncle's copy of "Thunder God's Gold". I don't have a clue as to where he got the names, but it may be a place to start.

Respectfully,

Joe

[P]

Ron,

I believe the '77 time frame is significantly too early because:

1) Deering said (in 1885) he was looking for the mine the 2 Soldiers found "last year"...which would make their story timeframe sometime in the spring/summer of '84. Even given poetic license of a 2-3 year period, '77 is still way too early.

2) It was pointed out to me that Mason, Bowen (and a 3rd person who escapes my foggy memory..someday I will unpack all these dam boxes and get to my stuff again) were only at the Silver King during a specific time frame that spanned the early-mid 80s.

P

PS Stopped by a couple of weeks ago to say "hey" but Jerome told me you were feeling poorly. Let me know when's a good time to drop by to chew the proverbial fat...

[P]

>>It would be interesting to compare a sample of the gold from the soldiers jar to the ore from under the Dutchman's bed eh?? <<


You got that right. Think it would be in classic Dutchman rose quartz? lol
I dont.

Maybe a nice drab color instead.....

[Gregory E. Davis]

Dr. Tom Glover did considerable research pertaining to the Lost Soldier story. He actually located the descendents of the Mason family in California. (all of which are inlaw relationship). Unfortunally he was one generation to late by about 3 years from being able to interview the grandmother who knew the entire story and the names of the soldiers. The grandson remembers the story however not the details, like the soldiers names. (See Glovers book). John Spangler claimed to have known one of the soliers names but held on to that piece of information like a hungry dog to a piece of fresh steak!!! Be careful now when researching this story and the soldiers names and do not get the story of the two soldiers mixed up the the Soldier's Lost Mine story that took place around the Mount Ord area. I would have to research the story, but if memory serves me right, the names of those soldiers were known. You can look up the research material for that story in Tom Proberts book, Lost Mines and Buried treasures of the West. Cordially, Greg Davis

[Gregory E. Davis]

Peter; The three persons that had to be at the Silver King Mine and Pinal City at the same time were, Fraser, Mason, and Bowen. This would have to have been between March and October l883 give or take a couple of months. Jack San Felice is credited with haveing put this item of research together. Cordially, Greg Davis

[P]

Greg,

Thx for the info.

P

[Ron]

P

anytime , call and make sure I'm here.

[Thomas Glover]

About the Mason family and the Two Soldiers gold. I have not been able to find any indication of the Mason family in New York. There were two brothers, Aaron and Charles, and a nephew also named Charles who came to Arizona (A third brother came but did nto stay.). The nephew came on the scene later and does not enter into the Two Soldier’s saga. Charles was one of the discoverers of the Silver King in 1875. His brother Aaron soon joined him. Both brothers married the Robles sisters of Tucson. The Robles family was a prominent Hispanic family of Tucson. The sisters did not speak English and the Mason brothers did not speak Spanish. Charles soon sold out his interest in the mine and retired to San Francisco where he died a in 1878. Aaron stayed on at the Silver King becoming a very wealthy man as mine superintendent. He moved to Los Angeles in 1885 and resided their until his death in 1892. The Robles sisters stayed in the Los Angeles area. I can find no link to the Mason family and New York. I have been told that the gold left by the Two Soldiers was returned to the families of the Two Soldiers. The chances of it surviving till now are probably slim to none – but, you never know. There are no “Masons” left as within two generations all the children were female. The Mason name from Aaron and Charles died out in California.

Why Ely gave the New York reference I do not know. A couple of possibilities come to mind. Could it actually be a reference to contacting a family of the Two Soldiers? Another thought is that it is a deliberate red herring. Back before 1950 the Mason family was much more cohesive as the children of Aaron were still around and the family history much more preserved than it is today. Back then if one found the Mason descendents one could find the names of the Two Soldiers. From that one could find the inquest that would have been held. In the inquest there would have been information about them and possibly about where they were going to or coming from (the mine) when they were killed. I have also wondered if one or both of the Two Soldiers did not write a letter home about their good fortune when they were in Pinal. It would seem a natural thing to do. If they did could that letter have had details in it that Bark or Ely did not want others to know about? Thus, Bark and Ely did not want others to track the Mason family down who could have told one who the Two soldiers were and possibly how to contact the families?

[Peter2]

Tom,

Excellent post...and you make a very good point about Bark and Ely. As you no doubt know, there are several issues (in concurrent weeks) of AZ newspapers (such as the Pinal Drill if I recollect correctly....still havent unpacked my junk yet) that had simply vanished from the archives. I believe the newspapers referenced a spring of 1884 timeframe. One cant help but wonder if Sims (being a newspaper man) saw to it that the archived issues that carried the Soldiers Story simply disappeared so that no other researchers would be able to reference them.

And of course if Ely did go to those lengths...that means that he strongly suspected that the story was factual...and might lead someone to the mine.

P

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wow!

Not one comment on the two names I posted earlier. For some reason I thought someone would recognize the names. I wonder where Uncle Chuck found them?

Respectfully,

Joe

[bill711]

Joe; The 2 names were the 2 exsoldiers who found gold on cherry or one of the streams close to the sup,s mountains. or were they the 2 scout,s who supposedly found the ldm while running from the indians??? I cannot remember for sure. Bill Petier 2; Your belongings are your stuff !! not junk... Your stuff is what makes up your empire..... Bill

[S.C.]

Joe,

I remember your previous post. But I thought it had to do with Jacobs and Ludi.

S.C.

[bill711]

Pecker; Are you saying the 2 soldiers gold would be army green??? Bill

[Joe Ribaudo]

S.C.,

Here is the post I made concerning Jacobs and Ludi:

"I think you will search a long time looking for "Jacobs and Ludi" in the California Volunteers.

You may want to try looking for two brothers named, Charles and Jacob Ludi instead. Hell of a coincidence.

Try to find rosters for, 2 Battalion Mo. S. M. Cav. Charles was a Private and Jacob was a Corporal in the Union Army.

I would be interested if you find anything. Aurum, Dr. Glover and Peter may want to rattle their own sources for information on these brothers."

No one replied to this post. It is not a wild goose chase. Where did the Battalion serve? What happened to the two brothers? What was the era of their service?

Perhaps it is just a coincidence. History from that time has a way of mixing up small details, like names.

The names I posted concerning the "Two Soldiers", were in this thread. I don't know where Chuck came up with them, but thought it might be interesting to see if they matched anything in the Ft. McDowell records.
I expected Peter to make a comment, but I know he is a lilttle busy right now. I know I have a list of names, but have not had time to look it up.
I would guess that Greg Davis would have that information at his fingertips. Perhaps it is something that they would like to keep silent about for now, but it may also be something with no substance. It is also possible that Tracy Hawkins knows where those names came from.

Respectfully,

Joe

[S.C.]

Joe,

Excuse me. I was wrong. You meant Sanders and Anderson. But thanks for refreshing our memories on the other post about the Ludis.

To be honest, what you had brought up was one of the things I would pursue had I more time and resources.

However, you seem to know a lot. What do you make of those names? And is there any reason to assume - besides the names - they could be associated with the Lost German Mine/Jacobs and Ludi story?

S.C.

[Joe Ribaudo]

S.C.,

Thank you for your reply.

I know very little about Charles Ludi or his brother Jacob. I was hoping someone with better sources than I would come up with something.

Here is the little that I do know.

Private Charles Ludi and his brother, Corporal Jacob Ludi were both members of Company "D" of the Second Battalion Mo. S. M. Cav. during the Civil War. I also know there is an Arizona connection in the brother's military history.

I hope someone will come up with a little more than that.

I will return to my own research (set aside) along those lines.

Respectfully,

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

S.C.,

Here is a bit more on Jacob Ludi.

He was born in Switzerland. He died in St. Louis on Dec. 15, 1879. He was buried in Old Pickers Cemetery. At the time of his death he lived at 2724 Hickory.

Respectfully,

Joe

[S.C.]

Joe,

What does "Company 'D' of the Second Battalion Mo. S. M. Cav." mean?

Is it Company D of the Second Battalion "Missouri"(?) S.M. Cavalry? Is "Mo." Missouri? And what is "S.M."?

S.C.

[Joe Ribaudo]

S.C.,

You have everything correct. S.M. stands for State Militia.

Respectfully,

Joe