The Fish Map

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Post Reply
Gregory E. Davis
Part Timer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:19 am
Location: Tempe, Arizona

The Fish Map

Post by Gregory E. Davis »

Gentlemen, I have read with much interest the numerous recent discussions and speculations regarding the origins of Linda Peralta's copy of the so called "Fish Treasure Map" on the Lost Dutchman Goldmine Forum. This was the recent topic called "El Cerrotero de los Minas Oro Apacho." The "Fish Treasure Map" was also discussed in much detail on the Forum back in October of 2002. At that time I had meant to post a few comments. However, now may be a more opportune time. I may be able to set the record straight on this issue for I was personally acquainted with most of the parties involved in this matter, i.e. John Burbridge, Frank Peralta, Erie Schaefer, Bill Schaefer, Tom Glover, Al Reser, and Linda Peralta. I have access to the letters and correspondences of John Burbridge, Erie Schaefer, Al Reser, along with some letters of Frank Peralta, Walter Armantrout, and Myron Brun who were involved directly or indirectly with the distribution of copies of the Fish Treasure Map. Finally, I was present during a number of deliberations when Erie Schaefer and John Burbridge discussed the Fish Map and their involvement with it, its history, background, copies made, and copy distribution among their syndicate members. This is the foundation from which my forthcoming statements are based and derived.

First, I do not intend to go into the history behind the “Fish Treasure Map.” That is spelled out in Erie Schaefer's book, “Dead Men Do Tell Tales,” and an article I wrote for the “Superstition Mountain Journal,” Vol. 12, 1994, titled “The Fish Treasure Map.” The picture of the Fish Map on page 13 of that journal is a true photograph taken by Al Reser of the actual/original map that Frank Fish alleged to have obtained while in Mexico. The proof of that will surface as this story develops.

Second, this story gets a bit complicated especially when trying to explain its background history and the events that lead up to the origin of the various copies of the Fish Map and their distribution. So, please bear with me as I proceed to lay the foundation to this narrative.

The story of the “Fish Treasure Map” copies start with John Burbridge, a long time treasure hunter, prospector, and searcher for the Lost Dutchman/Peralta gold mines in the Superstition Mountains of Arizona. John's search for these elusive gold mines covers a period of over thirty years. John was a member of Barry Storm’s 1938 expedition into the Superstition Mountains and later published a small book about his adventures and theories called “Arizona’s Monument to Lost Mines.” Although he located many tantalizing clues, his ultimate goal of gold discovery proved fruitless. Frustrated by his inability to locate these hidden mines, John began asking himself the question: “why?” In 1963, while on a trip to Kansas, he had a chance meeting with a Darrel Robertson of Konewa, Oklahoma, who was of Native American descent. Darrel and John hit it off right from the start and spent a number of days discussing Indian life, heritage, and beliefs. Little did John realize that this meeting, and the influence of Darrel’s stories, would have a profound influence on his thinking toward the Superstition Mountain treasures.

When John returned home from his trip he began to theorize along the following lines: “The gold mines in the Superstition Mountains are guarded by the Thunder gods and the spirits of the long departed Apache Indians. The gold is cursed to the White Man and the only way to resolve this dilemma is to approach the search with a new concept.” John hit upon an idea. If he and an assembly of searchers were to organize in a group, pool their information, resources, maps, collective knowledge, and work together as a team to search for the mines - with the expressed purpose of using part of the future profits for the good and betterment of mankind in some form - then the curse would be lifted which would ultimately lead to the discovery of the gold mine locations.

With this perception in mind, John approached a number of his “Dutch Hunter” acquaintances and eventually assembled them into a group called the “Legend of Adventure.” This took place around 1965. The Legend of Adventure consisted of six members who were to jointly seek and prove that the Peralta Mines were real and did exist. And, should they locate the mines or caches, to agree to its division among them along with the goal of setting up a trust fund for helping young people in need of higher education. This approach they felt would break the Apache curse of the Superstition Mountains. The group members were John and Rue Burbridge of Canoga Park, Calif., William and Erie Schaefer of Chino, Calif., Walter and Rose Armantrout of Torrance, Calif., Pedro Francisco Peralta of Riverside, Calif., Myron and Dorothy Brun of Young, Arizona, and Darrel and Pat Robertson of Konewa, Okla.

With the group Legend of Adventure formerly organized, John began to gather and compile from each member their contributions of clues. John provided 30 years of experience and research, Walter Armantrout and Myron Brun donated their research papers and 50 years of combined searching experience. Darrel Robertson added the tribal tales of his people as they related to the massacre of the Peraltas which had been told to him as a boy of the Warm Spring Apaches. This story was handed down by a member of that tribe who claimed to have been present at the massacre. Frank Peralta gave to John the stories of the Peralta family as passed down to him from his kin. Frank stated that his great grandfather, Pedro Peralta, and Uncle Miguel were killed by the Apaches and sealed in a cave or mine. It was Walter Armantrout who introduced John to Erie Schaefer, who at that time owned the Fish Map that had been given to Frank Fish in Mexico. This first visit with Erie Schaefer was when John first saw the Fish Map. From that point on he and the syndicate had full access to it.

During John’s next trip to the Schaefer Turkey Ranch, he made a full size tracing of the map. The “Fish Treasure Map” is 11” x 13-1/2” in size and made of what appears to be dark brown very thin parchment or animal skin. The ink is a light back brown in color. John attempted to trace the Spanish words and phrases from the original map onto his tracing. Herein lies some of the confusion. John, not being familiar with the Spanish language, added his own interpretation as to what the words were and how they were spelled. He told me that he did his best at tying to copy it. However, there were a number of words on the Fish Map that were very hard to read and make out as to their meaning. This is due to the map being terribly discolored to a dark brown caused by a chemical reaction gone wrong. Erie Schaefer had been convinced by a group of men that they could bring out some of the faded lettering on the map by using a special chemical treatment. Therefore, this would allow them to read the more faded words. Erie allowed the team to subject the map to the process, the results of which were disastrous. The map went from a light tan to a dark black brown.

Back to John’s copy, I have in the John Burbridge Collection a sample of the copy made by John of the Fish Map with the Spanish words drawn in with his own handwriting. I kwon that it is John’s handwriting from comparing it to numerous letters written in John’s own hand from his collection. They match the lettering on the tracing copy of that map made by John. The terrain tracing from John’s copy matches exactly the terrain outlines on the original Fish Map. During one of my many visits with John, he told me how he made the tracing and mentioned the trouble he was having with some of the Spanish words and how he guessed at the spelling, not being sure that it was correct.

After completing the tracing copy of the Fish Map, John made a photocopy of the tracing and he took it to each member of the Legend of Adventure, having them sign the copy. He did this as a gesture on their part to keep the map confidential for when he finished gathering all the signatures he made additional copies. These were both in the original size and reduced to size (8-1/2” x 11”), which he provided to each member of the Legends of Adventure group. Samples of these copies of both the large and small size of the map are in the Burbridge Collection in the archive collections of the Superstition Mountain Historical Society.

Frank Peralta, being a member of the Legend of Adventure, obviously received one of these copies that John provided to the members. It was Frank’s copy that eventually ended up in the possession of Linda Peralta. She, not knowing its lineage, most likely thought it was a true copy handed down through her family from previous generations. It is a picture of Linda Peralta’s Fish Map copy which she allowed Tom Glover to use in his book, “The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz – Part One.” See page 325 of his book. Tom Glover showed me a copy of the picture of the map Linda let him use and it matches exactly with the maps that John Burbridge gave to the members of his group - except the signatures are set differently than the original. That is because the Peralta copy was originally void of signatures. The signatures for Linda’s copy were added later by the Legend of Adventure members who had joined in on the 1966 expedition to the Superstition Mountains. They used this map on their trip and Frank Peralta had each participating member sign it prior to the start of their expedition. After the trip was over, the map was given to Frank Peralta for his files. That explains the additional expedition notations. The story of this 1966 expedition into the Superstition Mountains by the members of the Legend of Adventure was published in the “Rohr News, (Riverside, Calif.), April 4, 1966, Page 5, Col. 3-6. It’s titled “Peralta Seeks Lost Mines.”

In closing I would like to touch on the question of the “Fish Treasure Map” now in the possession of the Superstition Mountain Historical Society as being the same map Frank Fish had in his possession. Frank kept the map in his shop, the Gold Rush Museum, at Amador City, California, and his earlier museum located in Corona Del Mar, California. It was hanging on the wall. However, it was cleverly concealed behind a calendar. In 1959, Frank allowed a picture of the map to be published in the magazine “Men In Adventure,” Vol. 1, No. 2, July 1959, page 30-33. The story was titled “Meet Mr. Buried Treasure” and was by Lieutenant Harry E. Rieseberg. The photo of the map is on page 31. It matches exactly with the maap held by the Superstition Mountain Historical Society.

In John Burbridge’s collection, there are two small Browny Camera snap-shots made of the original map. The pictures were taken by John and shown to me during one of my many visits with him. He verified they were pictures taken of the original map. Those pictures, although of poor quality, do match the original Fish Map. In 1973 I visited Erie and Bill Schaefer at their turkey ranch in Chino, Californina. While there, Erie showed me the Fish Map that was hanging on the wall in her den. This was the same map that Al Reser showed me years later after he had purchased it from Bill Schaefer and subsequently gave to the Superstition Mountain Historical Society. That map is the same map I saw on Erie’s den wall and it matches all the other photographs. Even the old frame it was mounted on is the same. When Al passed the map to me to put in the archives of the historical society, I did make one change. I took it out of the old frame and remounted it between two glass plates in an archival frame to protect it from further deterioration. This should put to rest any question as to whether or not the “Fish Treasure Map” or “Peralta Fish Map” now held by the Superstition Mountain Historical Society is the same one that Frank Fish claimed he obtained in Mexico along with any other questions about the map copies made by John Burbridge and passed on to Frank Peralta.

Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

The Fish Map?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Mr. Davis,

That was a great post on the history of the "Fish Map".

I have two seperate copies of the map. They were my uncle's, and neither are exactly the same as the map in Dr. Glover's book.
If possible, I would like to get together, some time, with you and compare the maps.

Both are on tracing paper and one has the signatures set differently, as you mentioned. There are, however, some other minor differences. The copy or tracing of the map with the signatures is followed by the date, after each signature(s) of, 12/19/65

The second map is not exactly the same as the first one, and someone has added written English translations for most of the Spanish words.

I believe Lake Erie Schaefer was Chuck's source for these copies. I am fairly certain that Chuck knew or had met other members of the group.

If you would like to get together to look over the two maps, and see the letter I have mentioned, I would be happy to bring them to the museum.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
[email protected]
S.C.
Part Timer
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 10:45 am

Post by S.C. »

Greg's post on the Fish Map was indeed very enlightening.

I have seen the Fish Map belonging to the SMHS. And refreshed my memory by examining the photo in the Superstition Mountain Journal article Greg mentions. There was discussion about the word "Cerrotero." On the original in the article, it looks to be "Derrotero." The background of the copies made of the map explains why there could be some confusion over what is on the various copies of the maps. As Greg mentions, the map Linda Peralta had - and that appears in Tom Glover's book - was a copy made from the original. And that was based on John Burbridge's best guess as to what was there.
Wiz
Expert
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 2:55 am

Post by Wiz »

What a great posting!
Thank you Greg, and please do it again and often.
Gregory E. Davis
Part Timer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:19 am
Location: Tempe, Arizona

Post by Gregory E. Davis »

Joe Rilbaudo: If you will call me tomorrow morning (Saturday, April 24th.) around 9:30 A.M. we can set up a time and place to meet and compare notes. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
Gregory E. Davis
Part Timer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:19 am
Location: Tempe, Arizona

Post by Gregory E. Davis »

Joe; "Opps" I forgot to list my phone number on the last post. It's (480) 820-8112. Greg
azdave35
Part Timer
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: mesa,az

burbridge

Post by azdave35 »

great story greg...but you said burbridge didnt find any treasure..he never found what he was looking for...but he did find some small caches...one by second water spring and another over by government well
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Charles Ribaudo

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Greg,

I thought you might be interested in a few things I picked up in some of John Burbridge's letters.

In a letter to Erie dated June 9, 1968, John asks Erie, "Did you ever talk with Charles Ribaudo Dr. Phillips pardner?" (Page 2) In another letter, also dated June 9, and addressed to "Erie & Bill", Burbridge writes: "I hope Mr. Phillips partner has intention of working with us. Keep me posted on this." (Page 4)

As I remember it, Chuck did work with them. It seems they all were in agreement as to where the Fish Map was leading to. There were some pretty smart people working that map, and despite what has been said here, I doubt anything was ever found by any of them. I am pretty sure they were actually on the right track, just ran out of time and fresh ideas.

Dr. Phillips and Chuck were partners for a number of years before these letters. Chuck wrote me a letter in March of 1966 describing the events that took place when they "found" the Lost Dutchman Mine. it is really pretty interesting, and if there is some interest, I will post the letter for the members to read.

Thanks again for your hospitality. If you ever fly into Lake Havasu City, or decide to drive up here, We will be pleased to welcome you into our home.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
Aurum
Part Timer
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:40 pm

Chuck Ribaudo

Post by Aurum »

xx
Last edited by Aurum on Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TC ASKEY
Part Timer
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:24 am
Location: STRAWBERRY,ARIZONA

Chuck Ribaudo

Post by TC ASKEY »

Joe,
I would also like to to hear what your Uncle said in his letter.

Terry
Gregory E. Davis
Part Timer
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:19 am
Location: Tempe, Arizona

Post by Gregory E. Davis »

Joe: Thank you for your kind words. I also agree with the other post writers that Chuck's letters should make interesting reading for the forum members. Cordially, Greg Davis
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Chuck Ribaudo's Letter

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

In March of 1966 I was wishing I was with my Uncle Chuck, and making the trip into the Superstitions as one of what would have been called the "seven guns" on Black Top Mountain by Glenn Magill. :) Uncle Sam just did not see it my way.

On March 28. 1966 Chuck wrote the following letter:

"Dear Joe,
Well I recieved your letter and was very glad to hear you are all right.
Yes we came back from Arizona, but are leaving to go back the 1st. of April.
The area has change to such an extent you wouldn't recognize it.
Upon ariving at Apache Junct. we continued our way to First Water Ranch
then straight east across West Boulder & East Boulder Canyon, until we came to Needle Canyon, than north for 3/8 mile.
We Camped under some real nice trees with running water 30 yds. away.
There is a cave to the left of our camp site and actual proof that Jacob Weiser & the dutchman were camped there, because we found square nails in the wall.
Well, the next morning we started looking for the elusive gold.
We went south towards Weavers Needle to a spot that would match where the cactus would be, but we couldn't find it. But on the way to this cactus we found a Spanish muleshoe. At this point I was pretty excited & not thinking to straight.

The next morning I & Dr. Phillips made our way up Black Top Mtn. to where the (petroglyphs) Spanish signs were. Well, they were there so I
aligned myself to look S/East to the natural stone face marker & there she was.
Well, I told Tom that what we were looking for lay on that line to the stone face marker. But we had to have an idea of where the cactus with the stones would intersect this line.
In the meantime Manual (That would be Manual Salado) had made his way towards us, from way down canyon and just by fluke luck was on the same line that we were on.
Well, anyway he spoted this ridge & made for it, while we were coming down. So he says, hell! don't look anymore I found it. Tom checked it with the detectron and it went ape shit. But I still wanted to find that Cactus Marker, so I stood at the point where the reading was so high & calibrated my compass to find due east and it aligned up to a crevace on Bluff Springs Mtn.
Any how, we started moving rock away and ran smack into Caliche Cement, with no means of breaking through.
I dropped down about 4 feet to come up underneath it, and found a mule shoe carved into the rock. Manual had the torn shoe on his belt so I asked him for it, and layed it down on top of the carving, well it fit to a tee pointing directly to the opening we had made.

After this we left for home, and returned a week later with, what we thought would get in. But to no avail we were stoped. Well with nothing to do & time runing short, I decided to find that Cactus Marker. We went down to a fellow named Al Morrow who has been in there 12 years, digging in a hole, so I asked him. He was real nice & took me to where it used to be, it had been destroyed & in it's place was a rock with carved out circle & 4 lines. Well I layed my compass down and checked the alignment, it was perfect. The west line ran right through where we were working, so I knew that my figures were correct.
Now were going again but with dynamite & drills to pop it open.
Joe we checked the dirt away from the spot, along with the rocks & could get no reading, then we walked up to the spot & the needle went completely off scale on the low intensity scale.
Fisher Laboratories from Palo Alto checked everything we did & how we used the equipment, his finding's were that there was something very big underneath aprox. 6 feet down the size of a car body!!!!
So there you have it.
I checked my compass near the point in question to find if it was iron or possibly a meteorite. These would effect my compass.
Manual says he found it!
Well, I don't know. Maybe he did, but I do know he would never have known where to start or that it even existed. He says it isn't rough & he could find his way from any direction with no provlems. !Quen Sabe!

Well Joe it's time for me to go, so I will close wishing you the best."

That's pretty close to what he wrote with only a few lines missing, which have no bearing on the content.

That was Chuck's first meeting with Al Morrow, and they became close friends. Al told Chuck "never go into my claim when it's raining, it's to dangerous". Makes you wonder why Al was in there. Quien Sabe?

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
Roger
Part Timer
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

Fish Map's Mine Locations vs Kenworthy Mine

Post by Roger »

Upon re-reading this topic line of posts, it strikes me strange that the Fish-Pealta map shows two mine locations on the North side of Bluff Springs Mtn with the Northeast one matching exactly the location that Chuck Kenworthy identifies in his booklet, "Treasure Secrets of the Lost Dutchman". I have seen and photographed the "X" marker that Chuck describes from the top of Black Top, but never had the time to go check it out in detail.

Anyone been up to check the spot that Chuck identified or run a metal detector around the base area below the suspected mine shaft to see if any ore remained? I know some ore has been found in a campsite in the canyon below this area. Tlhink an arrastra was found in that general area also.

Roger
Joe Ribaudo
Expert
Posts: 5453
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm

Not So Obvious.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

The Fish Map seems to lead to obvious places in the Superstitions. One place......not so obvious, but plainly marked, is: "The rose colored gravel are a marker". The natural question, for me, is.....A marker for what? Could it be: "In the Cavern of Gold I have hidden 50 carts in a row"? 8O

Does that location fit into Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars? Is the final location of the Peralta/Fish map.... Harry's cave? Do the Stone Maps also point to that location?

Is it possible for all three to be an interconnected hoax? I should think that the first thing to look at, would be the timeline for each story.

Joe Ribaudo
Post Reply