Peralta Letter

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
late49er
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Martin

Post by late49er »

Joe,

Martin`s involvement with the Peralta`s ended shortly after the massacre. His involvement with others was just beginning.


Bill,

Not sure if your post is aimed at my comments but I suspect they are. Yes I believe as you that there are multiple outcroppings of ore in the Superstitutions that have been described as the LDM. Just on a side note one should not underestimate the importance of uplift and erosion in the surface exposure of deposits in the Superstitutions. This contributes I believe to most sightings being in rough country. Country that has gone through a lot of geologic turmoil. Really ore deposits in the Superstitutions are truely windows into the past. I am reminded here of the comments of Maclaren, "Auriferous veins or deposits may be of any form, may occur in any rock, and may have received their gold from various sources. Particular classifications based on obviously adventitious characters, as similarity of form of deposit, or identity of matrix or of associated minerals, can therefore serve no useful purpose, either scientifc or economic. Such classifications have been current for many years. Some have certainly been suggestive, but the majority have helped the miner and prospector not a whit, and have proved a source of confusion and embarrassment to the student".


Regards,

Late49er
Joe Ribaudo
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?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Late,

I believe I have been saying the same thing for a long time. Only difference is, I have no idea what I am talking about, and couldn't put it in the terms you just did. :lol:

My impression of what could happen here, is that you could have a very rich surface deposit, without having what most would consider a "mine".
Pocket is the word that comes to mind.

In other words, the gold could be carried a great distance from it's source and pop out of the earth like a pimple. Once you clean out the pus, nothing left but the scar.

As you can see, I would love to understand exactly what you are saying, but, if possible, I need you to come down to my level. :wink: I know your comments were directed to Bill, but everyone knows we share the same computer, so you get me instead of Bill. :lol:

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
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skeelos
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Re: The Lost Magill

Post by skeelos »

Gene,

Thanks for sorting that out, really impressive work that.
I hope this answers all your questions - ( but I just know it doesn't and you will find more)...
Heh, am I that easy to figure out? :) and, uh, yeah, I do have a few more questions and observations.

There’s lies, damn lies, and statistics. Yes, it does make sense that Glenn Magill would, let’s say provide some misinformation to protect Erwin, and perhaps to throw other searchers off. It dovetails with the “Ruth’s stuff is in the Smithsonian for 25 years” story.

It’s quite convincing that Crazy Jake never had Ruth’s stuff. The question then arises, which was touched upon earlier in the thread, why did Crazy Jake suddenly head west? If Crazy Jake didn’t have the boxes of Ruth’s papers, all we’re left with is the story redison shared about the CIA. That story reduces to Jake left DC because the CIA was unaware of a place called Arizona and Jake was going to live a quiet life out of the limelight so the CIA could never find him and volunteer him for suicide duty. Just to be clear, that’s not a shot at you redison, I appreciate your posts and I know you don’t own that story, but the story itself just doesn’t add up.

I suppose it is possible that Crazy Jake merely saw some newspaper article about the LDM and lit out, could be anything really. However, I’m still trying to get my brain around the whole Lincoln Continental Club issue. I mean, Glenn Magill says Erwin says Adolph’s files are to be picked up by the LCC, plus the similarity between the club’s president’s name and Crazy Jake’s, plus Crazy Jake saying that he has Ruth’s files. Now the latter is easy enough to dismiss as a part of Jake’s character (or lack thereof perhaps), and each one of the first two are easy enough to dismiss as coincidence on their own, but together it seems coincidence has been stretched beyond its limits.

Earlier you said that Crazy Jake was a “normal” person up until 1971. Can I ask what happened to him in 1971?

Eleanor Clark. For me, one part of me is tempted to try to find her, and the other part of me knows that sort of thing isn’t what I’m good at, not to tackle on my own anyway.

One more question for you Gene. This one should be very easy to answer and I think it won’t interfere too much with your vacation. Can I still get a copy of Borrego 13? and if so, how?



Wiz and S.C.

Thanks for the help with the Salazar Survey. Does the 1984 issue of the “Superstition Mountain Journal” have the map/data? If not, is there a place I can find it?
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Re: The Lost Magill

Post by Wiz »

skeelos wrote: If Crazy Jake didn’t have the boxes of Ruth’s papers, all we’re left with is the story redison shared about the CIA. That story reduces to Jake left DC because the CIA was unaware of a place called Arizona and Jake was going to live a quiet life out of the limelight so the CIA could never find him and volunteer him for suicide duty.
That could all be true. Maybe substitute some other "organization" for the CIA. Leopards don't change their spots, and Jake might have worn out his welcome in DC. I'd be tempted to head for the mountains too if dey was gonna send a couple udda boys over to have a chat wit me...
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Skeelos

Post by Gene Reynolds »

I had alot written here and somehow lost the damn thing - so i am not going to write all that I did again - I will now keep it short and to the point without a lot of explanations.

Jake did not have other languages to speak. The CIA would not have a use for him. Check out the CIA's requirements yourself. It's easy.
Why did he go to Arizona - I don't know. Perhaps Ron Feldman could tell you - Jake worked for Ron at one time. Do you think there's the slightest chance that if the CIA was after you - a place like Arizona would be hard to find him in with all the places he was known at.? The CIA was never after Jake - hell the FBI had a file on him a mile long.

I don't know the particulars on Jake and what happened to him in 1971........I am told someone that has all that information and it was not given to me because I frankly didn't care. I was made aware that something of importance happened to Jake in that year that changed him greatly. That's all.

Question ; plus the similarity between the club’s president’s name and Crazy Jake’s, plus Crazy Jake saying that he has Ruth’s files

There is no similarity beween Jake's name and what I found out yesterday..... (before yesterday - I did not have the full story)
(read again the past post)

Question: One more question for you Gene. This one should be very easy to answer and I think it won’t interfere too much with your vacation. Can I still get a copy of Borrego 13? and if so, how?

Answer = Yes - provided you have $20. for it and $5.00 postage.....I think it was Dave that asked the same thing a week ago..... I have only 7 left and that will be the end of it.

You can send you check or money order to... Borrego 13
P.O. box 13
Pendergrass, GA. 30567

I prefer Gold Nuggets - but I guess checks or money order will do.......
make sure you send a $50. tip as well - My dog is almost out of snacks.! (and I eat what he won't)

Gene Reynolds
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Re: Skeelos

Post by Gene Reynolds »

Gene Reynolds wrote:I had alot written here and somehow lost the damn thing - so i am not going to write all that I did again - I will now keep it short and to the point without a lot of explanations.

Jake did not have other languages to speak. The CIA would not have a use for him. Check out the CIA's requirements yourself. It's easy.
Why did he go to Arizona - I don't know. Perhaps Ron Feldman could tell you - Jake worked for Ron at one time. Do you think there's the slightest chance that if the CIA was after you - a place like Arizona would be hard to find him in with all the places he was known at.? The CIA was never after Jake - hell the FBI had a file on him a mile long.

I don't know the particulars on Jake and what happened to him in 1971........I am told by someone that has all that information - was not given to me because I frankly didn't care. I was made aware that something of importance happened to Jake in that year that changed him greatly. That's all.

Question ; plus the similarity between the club’s president’s name and Crazy Jake’s, plus Crazy Jake saying that he has Ruth’s files

There is no similarity beween Jake's name and what I found out yesterday..... (before yesterday - I did not have the full story)
(read again the past post)

Question: One more question for you Gene. This one should be very easy to answer and I think it won’t interfere too much with your vacation. Can I still get a copy of Borrego 13? and if so, how?

Answer = Yes - provided you have $20. for it and $5.00 postage.....I think it was Dave that asked the same thing a week ago..... I have only 7 left and that will be the end of it.

You can send you check or money order to... Borrego 13
P.O. box 13
Pendergrass, GA. 30567

I prefer Gold Nuggets - but I guess checks or money order will do.......
make sure you send a $50. tip as well - My dog is almost out of snacks.! (and I eat what he won't)

Gene Reynolds
Writer of Borrego 13
bill711
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Gold in the Sup,s

Post by bill711 »

Late; Thank you. I have read real old stories that spoke of alot of surface gold there around the North side of the sup,s. Bill 8)
Joe Ribaudo
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"Dead Men Tell No Tales"

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Skeelos,

This seems pretty simple to me. If Jake knew anything worthwhile about the Kennedy assassination, he would not have lived to make it to trail.

If he was CIA, Gene could have spent a lifetime and never found his birth place or date of birth. Jake would not have been using the name he was given at birth. He would have been a "ghost".

If the CIA was looking for him, to find out why he had not "commited suicide", don't you think he would have maintained a lower profile?

This would all probably make a great novel.......You don't think someone is writing another book, do you? :lol:

Respectfully,

Joe
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skeelos
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Post by skeelos »

Ok, I think I see where I was derailed. Based on earlier posts, I had taken it as an immutable fact that Crazy Jake's name was similar to the name of the president of a Lincoln Continental Club. Then it's shown that there are 2 LCC's, one which is large and ongoing, and the other which has folded. The way I read it, Wolfson founded the current club, and the president of the current club is Bentley. Bentley has been president of the current club for over 30 years, which puts the start of his tenure no earlier than about 1966, some time after Crazy Jake left for Arizona. The founder of the defunct club was unknown, but in the early 1960's the name of the president of that club was similar to Crazy Jake's name. It seemed to me that the old club fell apart not too long after Crazy Jake left, and a new club was founded from the ashes or perhaps completely independently of the old club. Apparently that wasn't the case, and kind of a pity too. It made for a good story and fit so well with Magill's story about Ruth's files being left for the club. Magill's story is still kind of a curiosity for me. I mean, even if he told it to take pressure off of Erwin, why not say the files were destroyed in a fire or stolen or something. By saying they were left for the club, it would have merely redirected the attention, not stopped it, and anyone interested in the files could have queried the club and found out it was a ruse.
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very good

Post by Gene Reynolds »

Skeelos - I'm impressed - your ability to sort it all out and understand it is great. There's one more thing though...............

Neither the Newer President of 30 years nor the founder of LCC new or ever heard of a name even close to Jakes.! They both new the old President from the old club. The one name I should have written - I didn't but I think it was Allen Mc**^%$##@_(- or Milton or David L. Cole because those are the other names I did write down on the papers I was writing on at this time. I know = I did my job well but a little half ass'd.

I now hope this ends the case of the missing files............(even though they are still missing). At least we all know who has them.......!

If you ever come to Georgia get indoors at night - we have our own breed of mesquitoes here. They are small - but they are so mean - they not only bite you 20 times before you can swing at them - but they do it buddy style - While ones biting you - the other steals your wallet.......

They got me good last night - and I still can't find my wallet!!!

Gene Reynolds
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skeelos
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Post by skeelos »

Thank you for you kind words, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates your efforts and what you've posted. It's been very educational to say the least.

As for mosquitos, no doubt Georgia as well as other southeastern states have some nasty ones. I know for a fact North Carolina does. When I lived there, depending on the weather in spring we would be besieged by mosquitos and fleas, and worst of all ticks. I hate ticks. Ticks latch on and stay latched on, becoming huge, bloated, disgusting things - kind of like politicians. :)
Most of the world's problems are caused by people who take themselves too seriously.
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Post by zentull »

I knew some guys that had bought some maps from a guy in the neighborhood back in the late seventies early eighties. Was Jake in the metro center area then? These guys went on about some maps and other stuff that they were sure was for real. They searched pretty steadily into the late eighties before dissension took over. I remeber talking to one of the guys yopunger brother and he said they wouldn't even show him the map and that they were obsessed with it.There something fitting in the fact that Jake settled down finally in the neighborhood which also spawned Alice Cooper.
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Lincoln Continental Owner's Club

Post by novice »

I'm sure this information will be classified as triva but perhaps a couple of members would be interested. This falls under Harry's "Did Jake wipe with his left hand or right hand?"

Gene wrote:
Now the question arises - did was Crazy Jake President of the Lincoln Continental Clue in Washington, D.C.
Answer = The club is now defunct (hope i spelled that right) - and I could not reach John Anderson - past Sec./Tres. and good friends with Erwin Ruth. However - I have been assured by many people that knew Crazy Jake personnaly that the only close resemblance was the name of the President and Jakes were close but jakes middle name is Simpson. Crazy Jake never new Adolph or Erwin because Erwins files were still intact in 1966 - long after Crazy Jake got to Arizona.
The web site below is for the Lincoln & Continental Owners Club

http://www.lcoc.org/History/History2.htm

There is a picture of Edwin Ruth standing in front of his 1948 Lincoln Continental in 1960. It also states that Ruth was the president of the Club in 1968 and 1969. On another site I found that there is stiil an award being presented to show winners named the Edwin C Ruth Award.

If you select from the tool bar (About LCOC) you will find some of the history of LCOC. The club we're speaking of is the Lincoln Continental Owner's Club and in 1987 it was changed to Lincoln "AND" Continental Owner's Club, It remains very active. I could not find the past officers anywhere. I am putting a query on their Discussion Board.

Gene, also wrote,
Glenn said - Erwin said that "the stuff" was to be picked up by the Lincoln Continental Club - of with both Adolph and Erwin were long time members of.
My impression is that the club was organized in 1953 and Adolph would not have been a member? Do I have the wrong Club?

I haven't spent much time on the Adolph Ruth story, but I got the impression that perhaps Erwin was a neer-do well who couldn't hold a job. What I'm finding is that he seems to have been a pretty well respected individual.

I have also found a reference to him in a book called the Black Candle written in 1922 by Emily Murphy (About Narcotics Use) in which she makes reference to Erwin. (Chapter 30)

http://www.freeworldnews.com/ (Select Black Candle on the Tool Bar)
When one turns to look at the cost of the addicts to the United States, apart from the loss in wages, or of the drugs consumed, the sums are amazing. The figures we quote are those given by Dr. Erwin C. Ruth, head of the International Revenue Department of Boston who says, "Conservative estimates place the value of property lost and destroyed by a single addict in a year at $2,500. The aggregate would be five billion dollars on this basis.

The average drug slave spends $25.00 a year for hypodermic equipment alone, with two million persons using dope, the yearly cost of hypodermic instruments would be fifty million dollars.

"It is very difficult," he says further, "to obtain public figures on the cost of taking care of drug addicts who land in jail as a result of crime. A guess would be $20.00 a piece, or ten million dollars for the total number. Fully 80 per cent. of the professional criminals are drug addicts."
Again, Head of the Internal (International sic) Revenue Department of Boston. Doesn't sound like a bum?

If anybody has a reference as to whether Jake was left or right handed, I would be interested.

Garry Cundiff
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Ruth

Post by Gene Reynolds »

Novice

Good work my friend....... However = there's one thing maybe you didn't notice on the club - this one is head quarted in
Illonois =
Nubs Schactner
246 East Dayton
Galesburg, Illinois, 61401
or FAX to 309-341-1091

you said:

The club we're speaking of is the Lincoln Continental Owner's Club and in 1987 it was changed to Lincoln "AND" Continental Owner's Club, It remains very active.

Answer = yes - that one is and so are about 10 others - but the Washington DC. club = ain't no more. It and a few others are a combined effort and now located in (another state) I think i put that all in another post and who it's President is etc. for the Eastern secture. There are others out west and Minn. and all over but no in Wash. Gone , Gone and Gone.

http://www.lcoc.org/Regions.htm

you said -
My impression is that the club was organized in 1953 and Adolph would not have been a member? Do I have the wrong Club?

Answer - yes you do.

you said -
If anybody has a reference as to whether Jake was left or right handed, I would be interested.

Answer - Nope - don't have a reference - and don't care........

Hope I helped a little........

Read all the past posts .....

Good Luck,

Gene
Writer of Borrego 13
Jesse J. Feldman
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righty

Post by Jesse J. Feldman »

Hi guys,

Just logged on and couldnt resist. Jacob was definitly right handed. Just looked at his signerature. I am left handed so, I am very aware of how rightys write. Probably not anything new, but still fun. The important question is: Was he in his right mine-d?

Jesse
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righty

Post by CuMiner »

Jesse

Long time reader of the Lost Dutchman forum, new member and first time poster.
I wondered how long it would be before someone pointed out to the forum the obvious about Waltz being right or left handed. You nailed it, right on the head. Handwriting experts, and even an alert novice can quickly tell by a persons signature which hand he uses to write with. Experts can even tell if a person is signing a signature with other than their primary hand. Your point will probably not be well received however. And neither will the greater point that is made by your keen observation. Before any of us, myself included, makes light of something concerning the Lost Dutchman, or calls another Dutchman hunter a fake or liar, or deems something someone else said or did, preposterous, we should all take a step back and consider all the angles before passing our almighty judgement.
Thanks for letting me say a piece and no offense intended to anyone as my point was aimed at myself as much as anyone here.

James Anderson
Tucson, Arizona
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