The Stone Maps

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
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Joe Ribaudo
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The Stone Map Trail

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

For the Stone Map fans out there, I have posted three pictures of things you will find on the trail. A short distance below all three pictures you will find a large outcropping of ore that is often found with gold.

I have seen many hearts, trails and circles in circles in the Superstitions, and many of you have sent me pictures over the years.

Over thirty-five years ago, without ever being on the trail, I marked all three of these locations on a map. They are all exactly where I placed them.

I have no gold to show for the effort, but the memories are a treasure in themselves.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
bill711
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stone maps

Post by bill711 »

Joe; I remember these maps, My mother took the mccall mag. I seen a more fuller pic,s some where else but I did see these pic,s when they were put out. I had been following mel fisher for several years back then. Thank,s Bill 8)
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Thank's

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Bill,

It was a pleasure. Didn't take much effort. :)

I noticed the other day, that I still had those magazines you sent me. You probably want them back.

Hope all is well back in OK.

Take care,

Joe
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The Trail To The Heart

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Bill,

You asked some questions about the pictures I posted in the member's archive. This seems like the right place to answer them.

Something over thirty years ago, I figured out the Stone Maps. The heart in the picture is at the end of the trail. The trail in the picture leads to the center of the heart. The triangle is just below the trail and the heart. If you look at the picture of the heart, you will notice an armless sagauro to the right. In the picture of the trail, the same cactus can be seen on the left side of the trail.

The mineral deposit I have mentioned before, was part of the triangle. While I know the trail, from start to finish, I can only guess at where the treasure, mine, cache.....whatever, is. Others will have to find out what is there, as I won't be going back.

The two stone markers I have mentioned finding with my brother, appear to have been destroyed. The area has been gone over carefully on foot and by helicopter....close. They were not in an easy place to get to. You might wonder why someone would make the effort to destroy them. They were very substantial monuments.

I know for a fact that Native Americans have spent some time in that general area, but can't say they destroyed them. If it was done by Dutch Hunters, you are all looking for an empty hole now.

The heart is a rock formation and can only be seen, as a heart, from a distance. I was aware there was a trail leading to it, from the start. Once I knew where the trail was going to end, I bypassed everything and went to that area. Big mistake. Should have gone back to the monuments and started from there.

Strangely enough, the trail, the heart, and the triangle are all tied into the Military Trail. Funny how all of the stories seem to keep overlapping. I would guess that Joe Deering was in the area, as well as many other major players in the legend. Many are no guess at all.

It was 48 years ago that my dad took that picture of Chuck and I with the ass.......Before anyone says anything, I am the one with the white t-shirt on. :lol: Man, that's a hell of a lot of dust.

Take care,

Joe
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Joe Solves Stone Map Puzzle

Post by novice »

Joe,

I suspect you have heard the old show biz expression, "Always leav'um beggin for more".

I'll just share my impression and you can correct me where I've gone astray!

From your previous posts, my thoughts, and assuming you have solved the Stone Maps Puzzle:

1. The Horse/Priest Map wasn't required to solve the location of the cache/mine?

2. The back sides of the stone maps that have the word DON and the Cross Figure weren't required?

3. The back side of the Heart Stone with the 6 Zeros wasn't required?

Your solution only required the two maps with the beaded figures placed together and the cavity and the Stone Heart?

How am I doing?

Garry
Joe Ribaudo
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Conclusions

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

"1. The Horse/Priest Map wasn't required to solve the location of the cache/mine?"

"While I know the trail, from start to finish, I can only guess at where the treasure, mine, cache.....whatever, is."

"2. The back sides of the stone maps that have the word DON and the Cross Figure weren't required?"

They are not required for my conclusions.

"3. The back side of the Heart Stone with the 6 Zeros wasn't required?"

Same answer.

"Your solution only required the two maps with the beaded figures placed together and the cavity and the Stone Heart?"

I believe the cavity has only one meaning. The treasure is below the heart. A large outcropping of Manganese lies below the heart and is part of the triangle at the end of the trail. You can take that last sentence to the bank.

I will send you a picture of the outcropping. Please do not pass it along.

Other than that, you are doing fine.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
bill711
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Ass,s

Post by bill711 »

Joe; Here in oklahoma if a wife or girlfriend saw you putting a load on that spindley legged creature! She would make you take the pack off and either put it on the dog or carry it yourself. I know your the one with the white snoot?? :lol: Thang,s looking up aroun- chere . We got rain not much BUT the air was wet! bill 8)
Last edited by bill711 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
buscar
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The Horse Map

Post by buscar »

According to Ronald E. Cash Sr, in his note dated June 13, 1976, and the officer of the Mexican government in charge of the archives certifies the description of a map.

He begins by writing, “The horse of Santa Fe, I go to the north of the river.”

On the stone map, he points out the words De Santa Fe and the name Pedro as seen on the rear of the horse meaning San Pedro.

The map that was drawn in 1757, was presented by the Society of Jesuits to the King of Spain and that the original map is now in the archives of the Mexican government.

The drawing of the map bears the inscription, Carte levee par la Sociente des Jesuits dediee on Roi d’Espagne en 1757.

He goes on to say that the San Pedro gold mine in 1748 was worked with extraordinary success.

The note also tells of a CAST IRON CROSS that was found in 1952 in the Superstitions and came from what the Jesuits called the San Pedro mine.

The June 1860 map he says is the mine to what is now known as “The Lost Dutchman.”

The mine is also known as Geronimo’s gold and worth between 15 million to 7 billion.

From the Dons Camp there are eleven (11) mines hidden to Weavers Needle and seven (7) mines hidden from Weavers Needle to First Water.

The Jesuits it is said called the mines “Pinal” in what is now Pinal County.

Ronald E. Cash Sr concludes: “That takes care of, I go 18 places, this place is dangerous.”

Source: History Of Tortilla Flat, AZ by Robert M. Brock

The Iron Cross can be seen at
Member Archive.


buscar :)
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Joe solves trail on Stone Tablets

Post by novice »

Joe,

I have read some fairly elaborate solutions to the maps and I probably should just leave well enough alone, but.

The applicable maps you used to locate the trail seem to me to look like a monumented trail and some streams. Is this incorrect and an oversimplification?

I think you may have already stated that the daggar wasn't necessary to locate the trail? Are any of the remaining symbols required for your solution?

As the stones sit on the bumper, is the top North?

I'm sure you wouldn't be giving anything away to me (I still wouldn't have a clue where the trail was), but if the answers make you uncomfortable, just ignore me.

From a VERY limited exposure, my gut feel is that people are making them too complicated? (This does not include the horse/witch stone) That may be a totally different animal.

This does not mean that I believe they lead to a treasure, only that the person/persons creating the maps probably did not do so willy nilly. I suspect there is a solution/solutions even if they were created as a hoax.

Garry
Joe Ribaudo
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Solutions

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

There are a number of people out there, still working with me, and I won't be able to answer your questions.

My own belief is that there is no treasure left in the Superstitions. On the other hand, there is a treasure I know you are interested in, still to be found.

I have tried to put people together who are smarter and healthier than I am and believe I have been very lucky, in that respect. We recently added one person to that group and if they want to add someone of your caliber to the mix, I would have no objection. They may feel that too many cooks spoil the pot, but I know they all respect you.

Before Steve's death, we shared a great deal of information, but I never fully opened up to him. I really regret that now. If the Stone Maps and the LDM mystery are to be solved, it will require a number of good minds working on the puzzle and boots on the ground. The more people, like you, the greater chance for success. I believe the people working with me now, feel the same way.

History is waiting to be made.

There can be no doubt that I have solved the exact location of the Stone Maps. There is also no doubt that I don't really have much of a clue as to the location of any treasure or mine they may lead to.

I suspect that, if they are not a hoax, any treasure or mine they may lead too is within the bounds of the trail maps themselves.

I am now in my 48th. year of "Dutch Hunting" and would like to see some conclusion to the mystery. I no longer feel the need to be the first to set eyes on the site. Perhaps I already have.

Respectfully,

Joe
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Joe Ribaudo
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Cash?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Buscar,

Would that be Bishop Ronald Cash?

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by buscar »

Joe,

Check your email to view the article.

buscar :)
Joe Ribaudo
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Das Article

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Lawrence,

Thank's for the article, it was interesting. It seemed that part of the article was missing.

Your copy of Uncle Obie's "LDM" claim will go in the mail today.

Thank's again,

Joe
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The Monuments

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

All,

I have added two pictures of drawings to "The Stone Map Trail To The Heart" photo archive.

If you take the top map and count the dots from the bottom of that map, the monuments we were looking for were #s 3 & 4. Once we made the climb, we walked directly to the monuments.

Both monuments were approximately the same size. That would be: 18" to 24" square and around 6'-2" in height. The sight hole was around 5'-5" off the ground.

While it was over thirty years ago, my drawing is fairly accurate, as to what we saw. It would be interesting to know if any of you have ever seen a monument in the Superstitions that was similar to what we found.

I have searched the area on foot and by helicopter (very close), taken a huge amount of pictures, without finding a trace of the monuments. A friend has also searched a number of times, with the same results...NADA.

I can only conclude, sadly, that they have been destroyed. I know that there is no place in the Superstitions that has not felt the footsteps of man, this is one of the least traveled places I have ever seen. Pretty much unmarked.

If the monuments were destroyed, it was not done by Forestry people, nor by a casual hiker. I assume it was done by someone following the Stone Map Trail. I know the Apache have spent some time in the same area, so I suppose it could have been them, but you would think they would have done it long ago.

Here are the things you can garner from this story:

Over thirty years ago, I knew the exact trail of the Stone Maps.

We went to a spot in the mountains, looking for two specific monuments.

Both monuments were exactly where I had placed them on my Topo.

In the last thirty or so years, someone destroyed those monuments.

It seems likely they were destroyed with the express purpose of preventing anyone else from finding them.

The Stone Maps are accurate and lead to specific places in the Superstition Mountains.... to the exclusion of any other place.

You could also conclude that I am a lunitic, and I believe you could find wide support for that conclusion, but it is all true.

Any questions?

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
bill711
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Stone monuments

Post by bill711 »

OK Joe; Do not look for the stone piles; look for a scatering of stones! They may have torn the monuments down BUT I do not think that they would carry the rocks off too? So I would think the rocks were still there even if they were not piled up to where they can be seen? bill 8)
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Monumented Trail

Post by novice »

Joe,

You asked for questions, but I know I get carried away so I will just ask one for now.

Is the Monumented Trail that you have identified and the Monumented Trail that Jim Bark speaks of, one and the same?

A simple nod or shake of the head doesn't usually work for me.

Garry
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Answers

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Bill,

If someone were going to go through the trouble of destroying the two monuments, they would not leave them piled-up in one spot. Considering their location, it would not be difficult to dispose of the rocks used in their construction. We did look for anything obvious.

Garry,

There are seven versions of the Bark Note's out there. I only have one.
If you give me a direct quote, I will answer your question.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by TGH »

I believe Jim Bark said he found and followed a monumented trail (monumented by a small stone on a larger stone) up Havalina (Hog?) Canyon
until it disappeared (the trail) in the Horse Country. Some of those monuments still exist today if one knows where to look. Course its helpful to know where Havalina Canyon and the Horse Country are...as opposed to where we wish they were.

As to Apache destroying monuments. Maybe, but I tend to doubt it. If there were Apache in the mountains, and they were destroying monuments, then I do not beleive any monuments would exist today....and LOTS do, if one takes the time to look for them (also helps to look in the right place). Most likely culprit for monument destruction was prospectors way back when and the FS today.

P
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Horse Country

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

No arguement with anything you said, but......I believe the monuments you mention are the Deering monuments. That would place "Horse Country" a bit of a hike from "Hog Canyon".

If I were to assume, and I don't, that the Apache destroyed the two monuments I am talking about, it would be because they were in a sensitive area. No need to leave a signpost to draw attention to a specific place.

If you subscribe to the story that the Apache covered all of the mines, except for the LDM, and only left it open because of the difficult location, this area fits into the same catagory.

So why destroy them in the last thirty years? Since I found them, I must assume that others have also figured out the maps and created a little traffic in the area. That would have drawn some attention by those who are watching.

That might explain your conclusions. On the other hand, those who came after me, might have a desire to remove such important clues from the discovery of others. For me, they were the first tangible proof that the Stone Maps were authentic. That does not mean they are not a hoax, only that they do belong to a specifc area in the Superstition Mountains.

It would be nice to have some old maps that show "Havalina Canyon" and an area called "The Horse Country". :)

Good questions from you guys and a nice post from our "non-believer".

Respectfully,

Joe
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Post by TGH »

The only monuments that Deering left were 5 stone markers. Bark was not talking about these Deering markers when he talked about the "monumented" trail he followed.

Here is what I think about the Stone Maps.

Recently I spent an evening with a few well-known and knowledgeable Dutch Hunters. During the course of the evening we spent perhaps 5 minutes on the Stone Maps (most of which consisted of rolling eyes and shaking heads) and 5 hours on other LDM matters.

Enough said......

P
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Post by novice »

I know when I'm not in my element and perhaps Joe and Peter have already answered my questions and I just don't recognize the answer.

I have a copy of the Jim Bark notes that was given to me by Steve Creager. He did mention that there were other versions but he thought they were all essentially the same with only minor differences? I have no idea which version I have but the pages aren't numbered.

From Bark's Notes
"Jacob also said that no prospector would find it, which I take to mean that it is not a mineral formation. In fact, he said it was not, and that he had never seen anything like it and that it was very difficult to find; that the trail that went over the mountain to the mine was monumented with two rocks placed upon a larger rock, or some other conspicuous place."
Later on From Bark's Notes
"Now, in regard to the monumented trail: I have followed it over the mountains without difficulty, and then the monuments could not be found for about two miles, when we found them along a trail where cattle did not travel, thence over a divide into the horse country, where the monuments failed us again, but led us to a much more significant feature of the story; that is the cut mesquite timber."
Perhaps it is not a yes or no answer? Could Bark have found a second monumented trail after the first one played out? Perhaps I should ask if any portion of the trail that Joe Ribaudo has identified matches some portion of the monumented trail that Bark describes.

I'm a long way from pulling out a map!

Garry
Roger
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Bark Notes on Monumented Trail

Post by Roger »

The area of "cut mesquite timber" is well known as the Soldier's Camp and in located on the sloping SE shoulder of Peter's Mesa.

We have touched on the location of Bark's Javaline Canyon and not much definitive was offered by Forum members. We have covered the "Superstition Mountains" map published by Bob Ward earlier. I would note that Bob does mark on this map a "Javalina Hill" as Item 30 and it is located near the mouth to today's Trap Canyon that runs Eastward up Herman Mountain. Trap Canyon could possibly have been Bark's Javalina Canyon and would have correlated to his description as one could go up it on the way to the Soldier's Camp. I haven't been in that area so don't know if a trail could have gone up that canyon.

Roger
Joe Ribaudo
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Non-believers

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Peter,

It is easy to roll your eyes at something you don't believe in. If you could go back in time, you would find that the best minds in the world were all rolling their eyes at the idea that the world was round, instead of flat. There are so many examples that it staggers the mind.

Perhaps if I had been at that meeting, I was invited, I could have made some points that would, at a minimum, have allowed you all to focus on possibilities......and let your eyes come to a halt.

You have always derided the believers in the Stone Maps. I realize you are not alone, but if numbers are your game, you four were all in a decided minority. Perhaps your eyes are rolling so much, you have been unable to see the evidence around you.

There are many knowledgeable Dutch Hunters who believe in the Stone Maps. I personally know two of the people at that meeting, and they have never rolled their eyes while discussing the subject with me. Perhaps it was something in the air. :lol:

There is no tangible evidence that a treasure, Dutchman's mine, Two Soldiers Mine, Joe Deering mine, Cave of gold bars or Jesuit Treasure exists in the Superstitions. There are only stories/legends to place on the evidence table. On the other hand, there are Stone Maps.

They are clues which we can all see and touch. At this point in time, they are the best evidence that exists relating to anything/something in the Superstitions.

In all these years of your laughing at something that others believe in, you have never once, that I know of, offered a plausable reason for sneering at the rest of us. I have asked you before, If you know something, of substance, about the authenticity of the Stone Maps, save the hundreds who are wasting their time some heartache. It's the kind thing to do. :)

It would be interesting to see if Greg Davis or Dr. Glover would like to make some kind of statements concerning their belief or disbelief in the Stone Maps. Both of them have profesed that they don't know enough about them to form a solid opinion. Perhaps they were just humoring me. :wink:

I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with me on this matter. If you stop and think about it, we are all like a grain of sand on the beach compared to the number of people who would roll their eyes at our little hobbies. 8O

As I said, show me one plausable reason for your conclusions concerning the Stone Maps. I am more than willing to listen and give your reasoning all due respect and consideration. If someone could put me on a better trail, I would be forever grateful.

Respectfully,

Joe
Last edited by Joe Ribaudo on Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Roger
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The Stone Maps - Real or Unreal??????

Post by Roger »

I think we have been around the horn a number of times on "are the Stone Maps real or unreal????" and have never gotten to a successful conclusion - just tension. There is not evidence to prove or disprove them or much of what most of us believe in regarding the LDM - we all have our sorting of the known "facts" added to what we have found on the ground to reach our conclusions.

Example:

1. Joe believes the Stone Maps are real.
2. Peter thinks they are a fake.
3. I think the Stone Maps are real due to Chuck Kenworthy's book on Spanish map making and codes plus my conversations with Chuck on them.
4. Joe thinks Kenworthy was a nut case.

I don't have a problem with this - no one has to prove their position or disprove mine. We're all entitled to our own conclusions. I would hope that we could have a healthy discussion on the Stone Maps for those that want to contribute.

Might I suggest that everyone involved agree to disagree and leave it at that. The Forum went into the tank for months and it is just starting to get back on its feet again. Let's all be LDM Forum members first.

So much for my soap box. Now to bed - we're having severe weather tonight and hope I can sleep through it!

Roger
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Nut's?

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roger,

We can start working towards a better Forum, by not puting our words in other people's mouths.

I have never said I believe "Chuck Kenworthy is a nut case". I, along with many others, find the man hard to believe. I am still waiting for one person to offer up any evidence that there is any truth, whatsoever, in his story about the "Royal Code".

I have always said that the Stone Maps could indeed be a hoax, but that if they were, they were done by someone who spent many years in the Superstition Mountains and knew the legends backwards and forwards.
They were not carved by a bored cowboy.

There is no desire on my part to see Peter or anyone else not speak their mind here. That is the nature of a Forum. You say "Joe think's Kenworthy was a nut case" and I say "That's not so". Peter says our conversation of "perhaps 5 minutes on the Stone Maps (most of which consisted of rolling eyes and shaking heads)....I say perhaps I could have made some point in favor of the maps.

It's true that my post was a bit brusque, but what else would you expect from me? This is not a sewing club, it is a Forum where the natural turn of events is to question facts/stories. We are all seeking some bits of truth and it don't come easy.

Anyone who strongly believes any story or legend that is discussed on this Forum, is going to get his or her feelings hurt occasionally. Happens to me all the time. I get over it.

One other thing about Chuck Kenworthy. I have asked two people who believe in his work and methodology to apply them to my maps. They both have every bit of information that I have gathered over the last forty-seven years at their disposal. I would love to see either of them succeed. You may take that to the bank.

Roger, I value and respect your opinion but that does not mean I will agree with everything you say, and hope we will both always be able to voice our thoughts and disagreements.

Take care, my friend.

Joe
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