The Black Legion

[Kayitah]

btw, does anyone have photographs of the following persons, most importantly the following two;

Delshay (Delchay, Delche, Delshe, Red Ant), Tonto Apache chief
Kayitah (Kaitah, Kaytah, Kieta, Kaeta), Chiricahua Apache warrior/scout


or

Ulzana also called Josanie, Chiricahua Apache
Ash-cav-o-til (Escavotil, Ascavotil), Tonto Apache/Yavapai chief
Chuntz (Chunz), Tonto Apache chief
Martine (Martinez), Chiricahua Apache scout
Dandy Jim, Apache scout, hanged for his part in the Cibecue mutiny
Dead Shot, Apache scout, hanged for his part in the Cibecue mutiny
Skippy (Skip-hey, Skitashe, Skit-la-vis-yah), Apache scout, hanged for his part in the Cibecue mutiny
Tissnolthos, Chiricahua warrior/scout

or

any other pictures of Tonto Apache/Yavapai

Just in case someone has any... I've been looking for those (and others) for a long time. I have one or two (not very good ones) of each of Dandy Jim, Tissnolthos and Ulzana, but none of the others.

Thanks a lot

[Joe Ribaudo]

Kayitah,

Welcome to the forum. As you can see, it is a dark time.

You should know that this in not really an "American Indian" related site but we do manage to get on that subject frequently.

Two of the most knowledgeable members, on your area of interest, are no longer posting. LDM/Aurum was probably head and shoulders above everyone else, with Peter/TGH a close second.

You might try starting a private dialog with both of them. using the "private message" tab. LDM is very generous with his time and knowledge.

If you have 700 pictures, you should be way ahead of anyone else here.
Because of that, I doubt I could even recommend a book that you haven't already read. Lots of pictures in those books.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Joe Ribaudo]

Kayitah,

You can find a picture of Josanie, cir. 1884 on page 9 of Ben Traywicks's book, "N'de" Also you can find: "Dead Shot" on page 90 and "Dandy Jim" on page 95.

In Angie Debo's "Geronimo" you will find a group picture with "Jolsanny" on the far left. There is a picture of Kayihtah and Martine on page 373.

Eve Ball has a pretty good picture of "Ulzanna" on page 44. of "Indeh".

Although unnamed, Thomas E. Mails has a very good picture of two Tonto warriors on page 27 of, "The People Called Apache". If you are researching the Apache, you should have this book.

If you have not already purchased "Surviving Conquest: A History of the Yavapai Peoples" by, Timothy Braatz, I would recommend you try to get a copy. No pictures, but a good deal of their history.

Good luck.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Kayitah]

Hello Joe

Thanks a lot for your help. I've ordered some of the books you mentioned and hope to find some more interesting photographs in them.

Thomas Mails' "The People called Apache" really is a great title, I've bought it a couple months ago and I really prefer it above the stereotype work done by Donald Worcester, Sherry Robinson, Frank Lockwood, Robert Haley and Dan Thrapp. Another outstanding book (mainly for people who just got started to be interested in the Apache) is Peter Aleshire's "Reaping the Whirlwind". "Surviving Conquest" by Timothy Braatz is another piece of excellent research, unfortunately with just a few photographs.

My best wishes for 2006 =)

Marco

[Joe Ribaudo]

Marco,

Braatz has an interesting picture (1) on the dust jacket, but nothing but a few maps in the book. Considering the research that went into his book, he could have included a few pictures.

Happy New Year to all!

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

[Kayitah]

I have to agree, considering the research Braatz did, the number of pages the book has and the price that it sells for, he really could have included a few pics.

Though, the book itself is very informative and, as Braatz points out himself, he tries to get around personal judgements on certain happenings/persons and avoids degrading words such as "squaw" and "buck". That stands in a very positive contrast to the work done by some other authors.

Sunny greetings from cold and grey Switzerland =)

Marco

[Joe Ribaudo]

All,

If anyone is interested, I added some really good E.S. Curtis pictures to "Apache Images".

Joe

[Newjerseyman]

The "Gold of the Black Legion"!? The "Black Legion"? And what's great, really a riot, is that you actually believe this shit! Yer a hoot-I didn't know they had straight jackets that allowed keyboard manipulation

[Joe Ribaudo]

All,

Here are some of the warriors who chose the Mescalero Reservation over staying in OK: Martine, Kayitah, Chatto, Naiche, Kaahtenny and Perico.

When the Apache were released in 1913, none were required to stay at Fort Sill......as far as I can find out.

Joe Ribaudo

[Joe Ribaudo]

Terry,

You are correct about Nino Cochise, but Cochise himself was also involved........or so the story goes.

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

Terry,

I assumed you were kidding about Nino Cochise, but I should have put a few s in my post.

The Black Legion may no longer exist, but I can assure you that there were Apache who made a habit of creating a physical presense for that story. Those who protest their existence the most......have a dog in the fight, so to speak.

Take care,

Joe

[TC ASKEY]

No Joe not kidding. That is what the Article states that is on the desk in
front of me.

The article is from the Rim Review. A weekly paper put out by
The Payson Roundup. Sept. 21,2005 issue.

The Roundup does have a website. You may be able to access there.
If not let me know and I will try to e-mail it to you

Terry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Terry,

I know you are good friends with Matthew Roberts, so he would be the best source for information about Nino Cochise. You might ask him his opinion on the man. Good story there.

Take care,

Joe

[zentull]

A link to the article directly:


http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/lo ... rypr/20544

[TC ASKEY]

Wayne,

Thanks for posting the link.

Terry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Zen,

My thanks for the link.......I had a print-out of the article.

There is another side to the Nino Cochise story.

The gold mine associated with Nino, was in Mexico. There was another gold mine that involved Cochise himself.

Takke care,

Joe