Geronimo Head

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
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Ron
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Geronimo Head

Post by Ron »

Since all the talk lately on the top of Bluff Springs, It prompted me to talk of Geronimo Head Mountain. I'd like to share this info and see if anyone else has seen these things. Years ago when my partner Brian Lickman and I were just bumbling around the mountains, we met and befriended Chuck Aylor. Chuck was very ill and died shortly after, but he turned all his info , etc and knowledge of his 40 years in the mountains to us, which essentially made us very interested in the top of Geronimo Head. This is a difficult mountain to get on top of. We decided to start up from Tortilla Flat and for many years through our use we created a trail up the north end. I have of course been there from Malapais , and one other trip on the east side . Tom Kollenborn and I rode up there , unbelievable trail, in which my horse went over and both of us could of been killed. After Brian and I spent a few years up there we found many interesting things. Some may of course heard in the clues about the stone face looking upward and to the east. Well, there is the most perfect one there in all the mountains, and trust me I've seen a few. The clue as I remmember was across from a stone face that looks uoward to the east there is a small canyon , high up in which is located the Dutchman mine. Well, there is this canyon that we found and crawling on our hands and knees through the brush that was so thick and strangled this canyon, Brian found an inscription in an old camp. It said J. W. 1869, with other symbols. Being where it was we thought it sure could of been legetimate. Also then, not too many people went on this mountain. We took pictures of the inscription to A. S. U. and because of the presence of lichens that grew over parts of the letters they said they were carved at least 75 years ago. and this was about 1968. Back then of course knowing nothing of geology and following all the clues and info that everyone else followed , we were captivated by this place, until I learned more of geology. I always wondered then why there was no mineral and all assays we did were nothing. I have come to not believe that the Dutchman carved those inscriptions , but do believe in there antiquity. Maybe John Walker may carved them, for he was all over the mountains chasing the Apache. Anyone seen them ?
LDM
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Post by LDM »

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Peter
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Post by Peter »

LDM and Ron,

I assume you are talking about the cave up near one of the humps of
Malapais Mtn overlooking the Labarge area? My information had the JW inscription up there destroyed by vandals a few years back. Dont know why someone would destroy historical artifacts like that. Dumb thing to do.
S.C.
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Geronimo Head

Post by S.C. »

I have heard of three "trails" up Geronimo Head. One is the one more or less from Tortilla Flat. Another is from where Tortilla Creek bends to the west then to the south and then eastward - just before it hits Peters Canyon. The trail heads up Geronimo from where the bend starts to go south. This is what I think is shown on the Stirrat Map - and the one Walt Gassler wrote about. There is also another one that goes up Geronimo from just inside Peters Canyon. But, the best way to "find it" is to go past the entrance to Peters and keep following Tortilla Creek a ways east until it bends to the south. Then go over the hill to the west and come into Peters that way - rather than past the boulders at the entrance. There is the remains of an old trail. Once inside Peters look over at Geronimo and see the bits and pieces of a trail that goes up. Almost in a zig-zag fashion. This might be the one Ron refers to that he and Tom K. went up. Tom also has a map in the map section of this site I believe that is supposed to show this trail. Is that the one, Ron?

I think it is interesting that it is there. If nothing else it could have been a trail (Mexican or "Indian") to get from one place to another. Despite no mineralizations, the things found there sound interesting. I have heard of the JW carvings. But who is to say they are really associated to Jacob Waltz despite the age. I am curious about the head(afce) mentioned. That sounds interesting.

El Gato I have heard before. It seems that was associated with Bob Ward and some cave/stone house he found. I believe there was more than one El Gato carving. Can someone elaborate to refresh our memories? LDM?
Wiz
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Post by Wiz »

I've seen El Gato in several places, generally accompanied by a date in the mid-1940's. This guy got around, I wish I knew who he was.
LDM
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Post by LDM »

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S.C.
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El Gato

Post by S.C. »

LDM, Thanks for the heads-up. One should always be on their guard with any petroglyph or markings of any kind. More than likely they are probably modern. The Superstitions are a place that inspire such handy work.

But then again, some markings might actually be significant in some way. It is hard to say.
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Post by LDM »

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Ron
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Geronimo Head

Post by Ron »

Ldm,

Yes ,I'm sure you know the right J. W. inscriptions. That is where they are. There is alot of hydrothermal action , but as you said no mineral. Brian and I dug quite abit around there.

S.C.

When I spoke of going ontop of Geronimo , of course it was by horseback with Tom. Although there are other ways , The way you described going over the little hill to avoid the boulders in Peters is exactly how one has to do it. The trail up the east side that looks very old is also the trail we used. It is monumented in places, and I feel the trail is very old. It is also the trail designated on the Stirrat map. Sorry to hear that the inscriptions are gone. At least I have some good pictures of them. El Gato inscriptions sure did get around the mountain, but as I think Peter pointed out who knows how many authors there were of them. Again El Gato falls into the classification of useless information. I really feel from many things eg. the old trail over Geronimo and Malapais , eg Kochera's gold being found there and a multitude of other findings , that the summit of these two mountains was used , probaly as an avenue to the river to and from where the Spanish and etc. were mining, of course, in my mind, which was quite a distance from these two mountains.
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Post by Peter »

I have an interesting anecdote about rock symbols, though it wont add anything to this discussion.

About 30 something years ago I read a book
in Immaculate Conception grammar school entitled THE MYSTERY OF THE HAUNTED MINE, by Gordon D Sherriffs. It was written for a younger audience and while it didnt mention the Superstitions by name (well maybe in an oblique reference) , Sherriffs was talking about the Supes for sure. In it our heroes Gary and Tuck search for the Lost Espectro Mine.
There are a cast of interesting characters; a rancher, a secretive Apache, a seemingly benign peddlar and a phantom assassin that haunted the Espectro Mountains named Assesino. Some of the place names came from the Superstitions..the Needle, Needle Canyon etc...

The boys evetually find the treasure of the Melgosa Brothers (whose family, was of course killed by Apache) by following a scad of Spanish rock symbols to the mine. (If it was only that easy!)

In subsequent years, I have found much of the source information that Sherrifs borrowed from..mostly Storm and J. Frank Dobie. Still, makes for an interesting read (and I must confess I read it again quite recently).

I often beleive that it was this book that got me started on lost mines way back when....funny how stuff stays with you from childhood (and I wont get into how many Ft Apache playsets I went through..lol)
LDM
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Post by LDM »

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S.C.
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Stone Face

Post by S.C. »

I wanted to revisit this topic again. We went off an a tangent but Ron had some interesting info in his first posting above on this topic.

I think the stone face (head) Ron described is interesting. Ron, was that on Geronimo Head proper? Or down in Peters Canyon? In what direction did the little canyon run that the face pointed to? Was it on the Peters Canyon side or LaBarge?

And the camp site that was found is interesting. It makes one wonder.
LDM
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Post by LDM »

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S.C.
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Post by S.C. »

LDM,

Can these cliffs and the "head" be seen from LaBarge below? Or does one have to be up on Geronimo Head to see them? Is it best to approach the head and the ledge from the south or the north in order to locate them?

S.C.
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Post by LDM »

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Ron
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Geronimo Head

Post by Ron »

The stone face can not be seen from LaBarge. It is on the LaBarge side, not the Peter's side. I'm familiar with the pits LDM described, but the little camp is in the canyon or ravine across from tne face which had the inscriptions in it. The best way to view the face is to come at it from the north. It is so evident , from there. The ravine is directly across from this face, and to the east. I'm not saying the mine is there ,but we sure thought it was for awhile; however you all know my opinion now. Whatever the case is , it is one interesting place. The little camp is like a one man , overnight place.
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