The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
The dog and burro which were shot belonged to Jim Hatt. As far as I know, no one has ever been prosecuted for that. It is disturbing to think that someone would stoop to such measures, over an argument on the internet.
Oroblanco
Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
- Mrs. Oroblanco
- Greenhorn
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:46 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
The "lust for gold" - or at least the illusion of it, is still alive and well today.
I believe Jim Hatt was quite concerned over what was happening at the time, (and, imo, for good reason) because, he also sent me the same pictures and note as Mike got, and, not too long afterwards, sent me a "Just in Case" package. (of which I will not divulge).
Some folks' elevators don't always go to the top floor, (like whoever shot the burro and dog) and, while it sounds stupid to us, more than one person (and animal) has been harmed in the searches for treasure, perceived or otherwise, past, present, and I dare say, the future.
Beth
I believe Jim Hatt was quite concerned over what was happening at the time, (and, imo, for good reason) because, he also sent me the same pictures and note as Mike got, and, not too long afterwards, sent me a "Just in Case" package. (of which I will not divulge).
Some folks' elevators don't always go to the top floor, (like whoever shot the burro and dog) and, while it sounds stupid to us, more than one person (and animal) has been harmed in the searches for treasure, perceived or otherwise, past, present, and I dare say, the future.
Beth
-
- Expert
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:30 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
damn...an i am crazie?
i quit going into those mountains when i couldn't be assured my truck would still be there, with my things, when i got back from my travels..
been stalked from canyon to canyon...{and they were not even good at it.}
been shot at...had a wide variety of people be ignorant to me out there...
but to kill some one's animals for some bs opinion?
sick.
i quit going into those mountains when i couldn't be assured my truck would still be there, with my things, when i got back from my travels..
been stalked from canyon to canyon...{and they were not even good at it.}
been shot at...had a wide variety of people be ignorant to me out there...
but to kill some one's animals for some bs opinion?
sick.
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
I am new to this forum, have never posted, and have only been reading about the LDM for a year or so. What I read above regarding the death of the animals is truly saddening. I hate to think what I would be able to do to someone who killed my dog on purpose.
As the superstitions are one of the most popular and well traveled wilderness areas in the United States, I'm curious as to why I have not ever read about a hiker in the supes ever being "shot at" or "stalked" on any of the hiking forums of which I am a member. I would guess there are 100's of hikers in the mountains there every weekend. What do you have to be doing in the mountains to receive this type of "attention"?
As the superstitions are one of the most popular and well traveled wilderness areas in the United States, I'm curious as to why I have not ever read about a hiker in the supes ever being "shot at" or "stalked" on any of the hiking forums of which I am a member. I would guess there are 100's of hikers in the mountains there every weekend. What do you have to be doing in the mountains to receive this type of "attention"?
-
- Expert
- Posts: 5453
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Joe,
Welcome to the LDM Forum.
I would guess that you need to be alone and off the maintained trails for someone to be stupid enough to take a shot at you.
After 53-years of hiking in the Superstitions, once or twice a year on average, I have never had someone shoot at me, or even close. Most of that time was off the maintained trails, with only my dog for company.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
Welcome to the LDM Forum.
I would guess that you need to be alone and off the maintained trails for someone to be stupid enough to take a shot at you.
After 53-years of hiking in the Superstitions, once or twice a year on average, I have never had someone shoot at me, or even close. Most of that time was off the maintained trails, with only my dog for company.
Take care,
Joe Ribaudo
-
- Expert
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:30 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
"I would guess that you need to be alone and off the maintained trails for someone to be stupid enough to take a shot at you."
well just give away my secrets...
in fact, i was sitting down below carney springs...an someone from up the cliff, thought it would be fun to see us jump...
remember when the road ran to carney springs? and the road to the old tunnel in the cliffs?
we were camped just above the wash on the road to the tunnel.
this was back in 1973 or 74...we were a constant out there at the time...camped in the same spot for years....never did find the fool who shot at us.
that was crazy jakes period out there eh?
well just give away my secrets...
in fact, i was sitting down below carney springs...an someone from up the cliff, thought it would be fun to see us jump...
remember when the road ran to carney springs? and the road to the old tunnel in the cliffs?
we were camped just above the wash on the road to the tunnel.
this was back in 1973 or 74...we were a constant out there at the time...camped in the same spot for years....never did find the fool who shot at us.
that was crazy jakes period out there eh?
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Glad to hear that this had not happened recently.
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Joe Dokes wrote
Oroblanco
Don't be too sure on that - there is reason to think that two men who vanished in the Superstitions and were recently found (dead) had been shot; and another treasure hunter from Colorado now missing for two years has never been found. Whackadoos still roam the hinterlands of our country, and they will always be with us. We should never assume that there is NO chance some wingnut might take a shot at us.Glad to hear that this had not happened recently.
Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
In regards to the three men who were lost, I also agree that there was foul play due to infighting between them. Their sanity was in question from the beginning. I view this as more of an isolated incident rather than some whackjob taking a pot shot at some random hiker.
It's such a populated area and there are so MANY hikers. Reading threads here vs reading reading threads on hiking paints a very different picture of the mountains. I feel like if a reader here was to take everything at face value, they would come away feeling that being shot at out there was a daily occurrence.
Sorry if this has gotten off topic...
It's such a populated area and there are so MANY hikers. Reading threads here vs reading reading threads on hiking paints a very different picture of the mountains. I feel like if a reader here was to take everything at face value, they would come away feeling that being shot at out there was a daily occurrence.
Sorry if this has gotten off topic...
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
I never had the impression that it was a daily occurrence, and have never had anyone take a shot at me during the 6-8 weeks total that I've hiked out there. That said, I've spent 20-40% of my time on the trails and have probably run across at most 10 folks per day, but during the 60-80% of the time I'm off trails, I don't recall EVER coming across anyone.JoeDokes wrote:In regards to the three men who were lost, I also agree that there was foul play due to infighting between them. Their sanity was in question from the beginning. I view this as more of an isolated incident rather than some whackjob taking a pot shot at some random hiker.
It's such a populated area and there are so MANY hikers. Reading threads here vs reading reading threads on hiking paints a very different picture of the mountains. I feel like if a reader here was to take everything at face value, they would come away feeling that being shot at out there was a daily occurrence.
Sorry if this has gotten off topic...
From the posts I've seen on other forums, there are enough "nutty" people out there who have strong opinons on where the LDM is, that I would definitely be nervous if I ever came across someone on my "off trail" hikes.
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Has anyone here ever walked to the site where this gentleman claims the mine to be? Sounds like it could be done in a day.
http://thesombreromine.com/?page_id=87If you would like to go see, from Tortilla Flat, hike to Peters Canyon up Tortilla Wash. Take Peters Canyon to the site, about 4 hours one way. This is a moderate to extreme hike, and take it easy jumping boulders or your knees will pay the price. To get on the ledge you must enter from the sides. There are some old mining artifacts about the site, make sure pictures are all you walk out with.
-
- Expert
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:30 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
wow cubbie...you claiming i am a nut?
not that i deny it...an i admit i don't use maintained trails unless they get me close to where i want to go...
without any human interference, those mountains will kill you in a heartbeat if you fail to pay attention..
refer to cubfan's recent photo of his morning visitor, while camped out in the superstitions.
just a four hour hike from tortilla flats huh?
god to be young again....
not that i deny it...an i admit i don't use maintained trails unless they get me close to where i want to go...
without any human interference, those mountains will kill you in a heartbeat if you fail to pay attention..
refer to cubfan's recent photo of his morning visitor, while camped out in the superstitions.
just a four hour hike from tortilla flats huh?
god to be young again....
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
I suspect that some who visit Bill Schmidt's website will recognize many of the photos and G/E snaps in "The Clues" section.Different names will apply to the author of most of these pictorial clues.JoeDokes wrote:Has anyone here ever walked to the site where this gentleman claims the mine to be? Sounds like it could be done in a day.
http://thesombreromine.com/?page_id=87If you would like to go see, from Tortilla Flat, hike to Peters Canyon up Tortilla Wash. Take Peters Canyon to the site, about 4 hours one way. This is a moderate to extreme hike, and take it easy jumping boulders or your knees will pay the price. To get on the ledge you must enter from the sides. There are some old mining artifacts about the site, make sure pictures are all you walk out with.
Regards:SH.
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
I didn't mean to imply anyone here was a nut - sorry bout that. Personally I think there's way more things out there that has a much better shot at killing me than someone with a gun.pippinwhitepaws wrote:wow cubbie...you claiming i am a nut?
not that i deny it...an i admit i don't use maintained trails unless they get me close to where i want to go...
without any human interference, those mountains will kill you in a heartbeat if you fail to pay attention..
refer to cubfan's recent photo of his morning visitor, while camped out in the superstitions.
just a four hour hike from tortilla flats huh?
god to be young again....
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
JoeDokes wrote
I don't think anyone should enter ANY wilderness area in the belief that there are no dangers, druggies have been growing illicit patchs of marijuana and setting up crack labs in a number of rather remote areas of our back country. You never know what you may encounter.
As to linking this to the question of the existence of the LDM, it is in a way directly related, for if you were to encounter that wingnut who believes he has the LDM, he may see you as a threat; whether he really has the LDM or not. So keep both eyes open whether you are hiking or treasure hunting or don't, at your risk.
Hundreds of people hike into the Superstitions on a daily basis, and return with no injuries other than perhaps a few thorns, on the other hand over 100 people have died there too. It is not a city park and there are real dangers, including the chance of meeting the human type.
Oroblanco
Well sorry if you got that impression, the incidents mentioned have occurred over a long span of time with many thousands of man-hours between so is hardly a daily occurrence. However hikers would be less likely to encounter a hostile wingnut due to their habits of following trails, and being far less interested in looking for lost mines.I feel like if a reader here was to take everything at face value, they would come away feeling that being shot at out there was a daily occurrence.
I don't think anyone should enter ANY wilderness area in the belief that there are no dangers, druggies have been growing illicit patchs of marijuana and setting up crack labs in a number of rather remote areas of our back country. You never know what you may encounter.
As to linking this to the question of the existence of the LDM, it is in a way directly related, for if you were to encounter that wingnut who believes he has the LDM, he may see you as a threat; whether he really has the LDM or not. So keep both eyes open whether you are hiking or treasure hunting or don't, at your risk.
Hundreds of people hike into the Superstitions on a daily basis, and return with no injuries other than perhaps a few thorns, on the other hand over 100 people have died there too. It is not a city park and there are real dangers, including the chance of meeting the human type.
Oroblanco
"We must find a way, or we will make one." --Hannibal Barca
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
The information presented on this site is mark above worthless.JoeDokes wrote:Has anyone here ever walked to the site where this gentleman claims the mine to be? Sounds like it could be done in a day.
http://thesombreromine.com/?page_id=87If you would like to go see, from Tortilla Flat, hike to Peters Canyon up Tortilla Wash. Take Peters Canyon to the site, about 4 hours one way. This is a moderate to extreme hike, and take it easy jumping boulders or your knees will pay the price. To get on the ledge you must enter from the sides. There are some old mining artifacts about the site, make sure pictures are all you walk out with.
In fact anyone with the ability to recognize an old mine site will find that locating such sites within the Superstitions is common place as there are many such site scattered throughout the range.
everytime someone finds one they claim it's the LDM, then they read the clues and try to make them fit, the stone tablets included.
It is no wonder that there is so much missinformation and confusion about the LDM.
Alan
-
- Expert
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:30 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
i was kidding cubfan...
but that was a decent photo of the big kittie...i do hope you were using a telephoto...otherwise that cat was too damn close...
they really can jump.
i find the most dangerous thing in those mountains are the ankle biters...yucca and rattlesnakes.
but that was a decent photo of the big kittie...i do hope you were using a telephoto...otherwise that cat was too damn close...
they really can jump.
i find the most dangerous thing in those mountains are the ankle biters...yucca and rattlesnakes.
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Hey Eric! I'm glad you finally signed up. Have fun, there is a ton of info on here as you know. Call/text me if you have any questions. I'm home sick till Monday or so.JoeDokes wrote:I am new to this forum, have never posted, and have only been reading about the LDM for a year or so.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
PWP - that cat was too damn closepippinwhitepaws wrote:i was kidding cubfan...
but that was a decent photo of the big kittie...i do hope you were using a telephoto...otherwise that cat was too damn close...
they really can jump.
i find the most dangerous thing in those mountains are the ankle biters...yucca and rattlesnakes.
Realistically, I would estimate it jumped out of the brush about 15-20 feet ahead of me and to the left. It immediately turned and bounded off to maybe 60-100 feet and then stopped and turned and looked at me for awhile allowing me to get the photos.
As time goes by, I realize more and more that I was probably quite lucky.
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Laz:
Hey,didn't Jack Woltz get one just like that from da godfather ?
Hey,didn't Jack Woltz get one just like that from da godfather ?
- Mrs. Oroblanco
- Greenhorn
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:46 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Cub,
I'm thinking you have an angel on your shoulder, because, you were lucky in more than one way!!
Beth
I'm thinking you have an angel on your shoulder, because, you were lucky in more than one way!!
Beth
-
- Expert
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:30 pm
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Mrs. Oroblanco wrote:Cub,
I'm thinking you have an angel on your shoulder, because, you were lucky in more than one way!!
Beth
agreed...
big damn kitties are sneaky...and weigh more than i do.
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Do you really think that is one of the clues?lazarus wrote:
Alan
Re: The Lost Dutchman Mine: Does it exist?
Where does this whole "horse" clue thing come from anyway?
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ
"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari