Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

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Mrs. Oroblanco
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mrs. Oroblanco »

Mike,

I'm not sure how you determined their methods (looking with microscope or otherwise), but, I will repost the reports I got, and leave it at that, since, I forgot that when I posted them before, they were deleted (not by this forum). Just so anyone/everyone can see what was said at the time, who said it, and their credentials.

First one:

From: Jenny Adams <[email protected]>
Subject: Peralta stones
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 1:01 PM

Dear Beth:



Your email was passed along to me to answer. It was a few years ago that we had the stones you ask about here at Desert. The following puts our contact with the stones in perspective.



In June 2004, Henry Wallace of Desert Archaeology, Inc. (DAI) was contacted by Anne Montgomery, a writer for Arizona Highways with a request for a pro bono evaluation of the stone maps also known as the Peralta Stones. Anne arranged for the stones to be delivered in July to DAI by Ray Grant from the Mining Museum in Phoenix and asked that DAI analysts evaluate them and advise her about when and how the stone maps were made. Elizabeth Miska, Ph.D, Homer Thiel, M.A., and Jenny Adams, Ph.D. considered their geological background, their historic situation, their manufacture techniques, and evidence of post-manufacture deposition.



In summary, their conclusions were that the rocks themselves are not from the Superstition Mountains. The horse, heart, and witch depictions on the stones are not stylistically similar to the iconography of the 1800s, but are common in the 1900s. Similarly, the Spanish lettering and words on the stones are wrong for the mid-1800s and engravings and finishing of the stones were made by power tools. Furthermore, the stones are neither weathered from exposure nor damaged by burial as has been suggested by stories of their rediscovery. Based on these observations, the stone maps are not considered authentic as described in various stories of their origin in the mid-1800s and rediscovery in the mid-1900s. These observations were provided to Anne Montgomery who wrote an article for the January 2005 issue of Arizona Highways. None of the DAI analysts can add anything more to their conclusions at this time.



I hope it answers your questions and good luck with your research.



Second: (I am going to put all the rest together)

From: M. L. Brack <[email protected]>
Subject: FW: Peralta Stones
To: "'Beth Decker'" <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 10:35 AM



-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Wallace [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fwd: Peralta Stones

Mike, If you don't already have this, here is the summary of our
analyses of the Peralta Stones. This was sent to the director of the
museum where the were kept as well as to the reporter, Anne Montgomery.
--Henry

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Peralta Stones
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:23:32 -0700
From: Henry D. Wallace <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]



We are finished with the analysis of the stones (see below for comments
from analysts that we sent to Anne). A photographer from Arizona Highways
may be calling you to get a photo with you and the stones. He was going to
get photos and then they are ready to be picked up.

Cheers,
Henry Wallace
Desert Archaeology


___________________
From Jenny Adams:

In my opinion, they are very nicely done and very interesting pieces.

Having said that - in my opinion - most of the manufacturing was done
with modern (meaning electrical) tools. The pair of dark stones were
mechanically sanded and then drilled or dremmeled to make the symbols. I
didn't see any metal filings to help with that interpretation, but in
many places, there is a start dimple where the drill first touched the
stone. The large cross on one side was chiseled rather than drilled. I
could go on in more detail about which symbols were made with different
tools and with different techniques but I doubt that level of detail is
necessary at this point.
There is no evidence that these stones were ever buried and then dug up
or that they sat out in the elements for any great length of time. The
stone material is very soft and there would be lots of random abrasions
across the sanded surfaces if they had been buried. If they sat out in
the open there would be lichen, weathering of the symbols, and
discoloration of the stone material - just look at old headstones in any
cemetery.


Here's Homer's:

HI Henry,

My comments on the Peralta Stones:

1). Witch imagery- a quick review of witch pictures on the internet reveals
that prior to 1900 witches were not depicted with the pointed hat that
appears on the stone next to one of the 1847 dates. The stone image
resembles strongly witch imagery from the 1910s to 1940s.

Examples- http://www.geocities.com/~sturtas1031/halloween5.html

http://www.magicgallery.com/images/KELLAR_WITCH.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2254838871

&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2255094307

&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 2255749424

&rd=1


2). The horse image is also not typical of horse imagery of the 1840s.
As an
example see:

http://www.csulb.edu/~aisstudy/nae/chap ... 2_3.04.jpg

3). The lettering is completely wrong for Spanish documents of the time
period.

Summary- it is a fake.

Homer Theil, Historical Archaeologist, Desert Archaeology, Inc.

_______________________

Here's Beth Miksa's full report:

Henry-

I looked at the Peralta Stones, and they are not made with rocks
consistent with the Florence area. The big stone with the horse on it
appears to be Coconino Sandstone or a related sandstone--this would be
available on the Mogollon Rim and in parts of northern Arizona. The
other two sandstones are very soft, very fine iron-rich micaceous
arkosic sandstones (possibly graywacke) such as those found in units on
the Mogollon Rim or in northern Arizona. The "heart" stone is an
iron-rich mudstone or shale that is consistent with units in northern
Arizona. I am not sure if it would be available on the Mogollon Rim.

I concur with Jenny Adams' finding that the stones do not show evidence
of being buried for any length of time. There is no weathering or even
minor surface alteration consistent with burial. The map surfaces of
the two conjoining "map" stones are especially fresh.

Beth

*******************************************

Elizabeth Miksa, Ph.D. Ph. 520/881-2244
Research Geologist Fax 520/881-0325
Desert Archaeology, Inc
3975 N. Tucson Blvd.
Tucson, AZ 85716


Sincerely – Jenny


This will give everyone the same information from DAI. It appears to me that, with all the credentials of the above folks, and, their specific statements, that they gave them a whole lot more than just a cursory exam.

I'm not sure why an untrained eye - looking for something in particular - would be a better indication than experts in their fields, but ----- unlike some here, I have no "horse in the race".


I do have one question - this is about stones being from the 1500's or 1600's - this analogy reminds me strongly of someone else's ideas on another forum, which, by most here, have been dismissed as....ridiculous - I'm not sure I understand why it might be an "interesting theory" here.

Beth
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Ozarker »

Beth:

Unless I missed something, I don't think anyone here is proposing the stones were actually carved in the 1500s or 1600s.

I think there might be some supposition that Travis was attempting to convey a story, and his story started with the early beginnings of New Spain, circa 1535, due to that date being on both sides of the stone.

If Travis ever had the notion to pass the stones off as 400 years old (vice 100?), I think he quickly came to his senses.

Larry
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mrs. Oroblanco »

Thanks Ozarker,

I went back and read it a couple of times - but, wasn't sure.

On a different Travis question - was he ever called Jack? I ask, because I know Travis Marlowe (Mitchell), said that "Jack' had found the stones.

Beth
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by alan m »

Beth
What he actually printed in his booklet was quote" A few years ago a friend of mine, we will call him Jack, a large robust man was working as a policeman in a northern city"

It seems clear that Mitchell made up the name "Jack" in order to keep his real identity a secret.
Alan
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by alan m »

Beth
On reading your other post, it seems to me that you are mimmiking Polzer :?
What I really want to know is what makes you think that a Geologist is more qualified to analyze these stone tablets than an independent researcher?
The last time I checked, which was about 15 minutes ago, the requirements for a degree in geology did not include courses on how to interpret or analyze stone tablets!
Even though you say you have no horse in this race it is blatently obvious that your source does, or at least did have.
This report of questionable merit keeps popping up everytime the question about the validity of the stone tablets does.
For the benefit of others on this forum I want to clarify a few points;
The conclusion presented by the author of that report is only an OPINION :evil:
There is not nor has there ever been any estabilished criteria for the determination the likes of which have been presented.
I have analyzed these tablets as mike has done and I am in total agreement with him.
HERE ARE THE FACTS
It cannot be determined as to what type of tool made the carvings unless that tool has left behind some trace metal such as carbide or titanium. This could only be determined by X-Ray Diffraction or atomic absorbtion spectroscopy, ( big words huh?) :D
These test have never been conducted.
There are no dimple marks on the tablets and even if there were, they had drills in the 1600's suprise
The carving lines are not of a uniform depth an as such were not made by any power driven tool, driven by ox mule water or otherwise.
The stones lack of weathering is because they were buried.
It takes wind and water to create weathering effects.
I respect other opinions even when they do not agree with my own but I cannot abide by the intelectual bullying from people with inflated egos and inflated degrees.
I would hope that you go to Arizona and study the tablets for yourself.
Perhaps that would convince you that there is more to these tablets then you are willing to admit.
Alan
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Alan,

You are not telling the whole story of how they came to their opinions. These are not young punks fresh out of college examining their first artifacts. If you read Beth's post of the exchanges she had with the folks at DA, you would know that their opinions were based on much more than the mechanics of the carvings.

I don't think Mike would pretend that his opinion is better than theirs. They make their living judging artifacts and working in the field. As soon as someone here can read the Codex Borgia, their opinion will carry equal weight......at lest for me.

Beth has paid her dues. She took the time and trouble to test their opinions, one on one. You are still an unknown.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by alan m »

Hello Joe
I admit that my comments were harsh and for my lack of finese, I apologize.
However one fact remains;
There is only one way to determine that the carvings are of recent date, that is by trace analysis.
I make my living calibrating these very machines, and even though few people know who I am, what I state can be easily verified by anyone.
As you and I have seen on theses forums most of what people state are opinions.
I find it frustrating that any evidence which could prove the tablets validity is received as if it were tainted by alterier motives where the slightest evidence that suggest they are a hoax is recieved as the gospel especially when packaged with a certificate of validity from some "top notch research group"
Alan
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Alan,

Actually you are correct. Desert Archaeology just happens to be a "top notch research group". We should all be so lucky as to have similar resumes.

Here's something to consider. The people who have possession of the stones don't really want them tested that closely. Jim Hatt's glue test on the heart was a good idea, but as I told him when he started hinting that something was going to take place to test the stones.......It ain't never going to happen.

All of the people who make their living judging artifacts and ancient sites, have always believed the maps were frauds.

I have a lot of respect for Roy and Beth. Like the people at DA, it's well deserved.

Take care,

Joe
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Alan,

Forgot to mention, here are a few of Jenny Adams credits:

1993 Mechanisms of Wear on Ground Stone surfaces. Pacific Coast Archaeological Society Quarterly 29 (4):60-73

1995 The Ground Stone Assemblage: The development of a Prehistoric Grinding Technology in the Eastern Tonto Basin. In the Roosevelt Community Development Study: Vol. 1. Stone and Shell Artifacts, edited by M.D. Elson and J.J. Clark,
pp. 43-114. Anthropological Papers No. 14. Center for Desert Archaeology, Tucson.

1996 Manual for a Technological Approach to Ground Stone Analysis. Center for Desert Archaeology, Tucson.

1999 Refocusing the Role of Food-Grinding Tools as Correlates for Subsistence Strategies in the U.S. Southwest. American Antiquity 64:475-498.

2002 Ground Stone Analysis: A Technological Approach. University of Utah Press, Salt Lake City.

In addition to the above, Ms. Adams and Desert Archaeology played a very big part in the excavations of the Hohokam Ruins at Sky Harbor Airport. You can read about their involvement in: "Hohokam Farming on the Salt River Floodplain: Excavations at the Sky Harbor Airport North Runway". Anthropological Papers No. 9
Pueblo Grande Museum.

We are talking about some pretty heavy hitters in Southwestern Archaeology.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mrs. Oroblanco »

Alanm,

I have, indeed, spent quite a bit of time researching the stones, and, just in case you do not know, I have also lived in Arizona, and still own a home there.

As far as his "book" - I was not speaking of his book, but, rather, his letters to the McGees, in which, Travis Marlowe (Mitchell), in his own handwriting, told them that the man's name was Jack - not "we will call him Jack". (part of the Bernice McGee collection-thank you to Garry Cundiff).

This is a quote, directly from his (Mitchell's) handwritten letter to the McGees.

Quote:

The stones were found in 1949 by Jack and his wife." Unquote

In another letter,

Quote:

".....................I believe you saw a picture of # 2 & 3 maps that, (the finder) Jack had. We have it too.' Unquote.

There are several other letters, of course, but, it certainly leads a person to believe that the name "Jack" was not a "pick a name out of a hat" reference.

So, I was questioning whether or not Travis Tumlinson was ever called Jack.


Also, I'm sure you did not mean to say that "trace elements" are the only way to tell if carvings are old. As DA mentioned, the style of writing is incorrect, of course, the spanish was incorrect, any stones that are out in the elements have weathering of a certain type, and, anything buried also have different looks and different wearing. Trace elements certainly would help - however, since there weren't any, its a bit of a moot point.


Oh, and as an added "stranger than fiction", Travis Marlow also told the McGees that "Jack" had a perfect replica of the maps on a white cloth, about the size of the pillowcase, perfect."

I wonder why "Jack" or whoever "Jack" was - had 2 sets, exactly alike.

By the way, this letter was written by Travis Marlowe, June 22, 1965, so there were at least 2 sets of stones by that time.

Beth
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Somehiker »

Joe:
My suspicion persists,given the evidence that very good copies of the stones were made....most likely using both machjne-dressed stone obtained in Arizona as well as tooling available at the time....that the stones presented to and analyzed by DA and Polzer were not the stones that we see in the "bumper photo".Aside from the notable discrepancies between the stones,the recent revelations of Travis' stone carving skill creates even more doubt as to the value of these reports.
Even the photo of Leslie Presymk used in the Arizona Highways article shows an obvious difference,whereas each of the stones is a different colour.

Regards:Wayne
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by novice »

I mentioned earlier in the thread that Joe showed us some artifacts that he believed Travis carved. He wasn’t adamant about that and thought there might be a possibility that at least some of the items were artifacts that had been found.

We know from a Hainer letter that Travis was an avid arrowhead collector and it’s not a long stretch to believe he might have also collected some antiquities he found along the way. Of course he could have also have been fabricating replicas, and Joe was correct when he suggested that Travis carved them.

When we visited with Joe’s family in 2010, we saw the artifacts. They were interesting but we only gave them a cursory look.

When Roger Newkirk shared some of the letters from the Richard Peck files, one item caught my attention. It was the mention of a carved Indian head.
From Mel Brower’s Letter of April 2, 1965:

"Bob Bair then revealed that Travis Tumlinson had found another stone with the head of an Indian carved on it and that the Indian had two lines carved across the lips as though to seal them. I could not find out where this stone was found or whether there was any tie in whatsoever with the Peralta Stones."
From Elbert Love’s Letter of April 16, 1965:

“The stone with the Indian head with sealed lips was found north of the Columbia River, according to Bob Schultz, who was present when Travis found it.”
I did remember a couple of carved heads being part of the collection that Joe had. We were anxious to get back and view those specimens to see if either matched the description of the Columbia River Indian head. We photographed them on our February 2011 trip.

I will post pictures of both heads, although the smoother head seems to fit the description better.

Image

Image

Image

Do these items look like artifacts Travis collected or something he carved?

Do we see the loose ends of string, sewing the lips closed?.

I believe the Indian head stone is pretty hard. It would be a much tougher carving job than in sandstone. Are there any thought on what the material appears to be?

The stone material didn’t look like anything from the area of Texas we were in.

While these heads apparently don’t have anything to do with the stone maps, they do add to the picture of understanding some of the stories surrounding them.

I certainly encourage any thoughts!

Garry
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Cubfan64 »

Somehiker wrote:Joe:
My suspicion persists,given the evidence that very good copies of the stones were made....most likely using both machjne-dressed stone obtained in Arizona as well as tooling available at the time....that the stones presented to and analyzed by DA and Polzer were not the stones that we see in the "bumper photo".Aside from the notable discrepancies between the stones,the recent revelations of Travis' stone carving skill creates even more doubt as to the value of these reports.
Even the photo of Leslie Presymk used in the Arizona Highways article shows an obvious difference,whereas each of the stones is a different colour.

Regards:Wayne
Wayne, your thoughts are something I've had in my mind for quite some time as well. By the way - you planning to be visiting AZ around the Rendezvous time again?
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mike McChesney »

Joe,

You are right in that I don't hold myself above the people at DAI. Beth hasn't mentioned it, but we were corresponding with Ms. Adams at the same time and getting the same answers (if only that were so with Janie T). Ms Adams specialty is in GRINDING STONES (metates and manos). For someone that is specialized in knowing the look of hand sanded stones, I wonder why she could not answer my question regarding the difference between hand and machine sanding? HHHMMMMMMMMM Provocative!

I carefully read the article before going to AZ to get my up close and personal with the stones. I was on the lookout for exactly what was written about them. I have written this before, but will do so again here. The lines on the stones do not look machine cut. They appear to have been scratched into the surface using a knife or chisel blade. The method would be easy: draw the design on the surface (in say charcoal or pencil), then forcefully drag a hard metallic object along the lines making furrows. Repeat the procedure over and over until you get the depth and width you want. My reason for thinking this is due to there being several places (mostly at curves) where you can easily see that the engraving tool came out of the groove and scarred the surface. Jenny Adams seemed to think that if the lines were cut by hand, that they would have drilled holes all along the pattern, then chiseled out the rock in between. She never accounted for the possibility I pointed out. If this had been granite we are talking about, then she would have been correct, but we aren't. We are talking about soft sandstone.

Here are some examples of how I was allowed to examine the stones:

Image

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Image

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Image

------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe,

I don't believe that a degree in Archaeology, Geology, Epigraphy, or maybe even Paleontology would be needed to look for what DAI said they found.

Mike
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mike McChesney »

Garry,

That large Indian Head looks like it is made of Basalt or a Basaltic Rock (correct color and texture).

The last head looks found.

Mike
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mike McChesney »

Joe,
As soon as someone here can read the Codex Borgia, their opinion will carry equal weight.....
I am assuming that you aren't serious about this? I'll bet dollars to donuts that none of the people that examined the stones could translate ANY precolumbian codex by sight alone. If you allow the aid of an Aztec Primer, I'll bet I can. Although my Castillian isn't the best, with a bit of literary assistance, I am able to do a pretty good job on Spanish Manuscripts (although chain writing or linked processal is horrible).

Beth,

The name "Jack" was used only by Mitchell when describing Travis Tumlinson. Travis NEVER used it himself, and neither did anyone else I know of. His use of that name was not just in the letters, he used it in his book as well as the Life Magazine Story.

Mike
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mike McChesney »

Garry,

On that long head in the first pic, is that lichen or dirt?

Though all the heads look to be made of the same material, two exhibit much more wear than the smaller head. Artificial wear is difficult to fake on very hard stone like basalt.

Mike
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mrs. Oroblanco »

Somehiker,

I would have to totally disagree with the idea that the wrong stones were presented to DAI.

IF - big if - they were the wrong stones - then the stones we are currently discussing, the ones that Mike has handled, etc., are also the wrong stones. And, it makes absolutely no sense to have copies examined, and present the others. So, that possibility, imo, is not a very likely one.

I'm not a stone expert (as in the carving of) - but, again, imo - when comparing things - stones or otherwise - if 99% of the evidence is incorrect, (type, lettering, place of origin, spelling, wearing of stone and coloration) and 1% you aren't sure of (dimpling) - you get a case of "more likely fake than not".

If you had the exact same evidence, in the other direction (99% correct, 1% incorrect),
it would be a case of "more like real than not", and everyone who wants the stones to be real would be putting those reports up as absolute proof of their authenticity.

Mike,

As far as Jenny answering that question you asked, I suspect that, since she had asked me to pass the information along to you - and I told her I would be doing that, she probably just left it at that.

Beth
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mike McChesney »

Beth,

The lettering and spelling ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be used to determine any type of authenticity.

We went through this before. I showed examples of period Spanish engraving that looked about the same as that on the stones. If you have any experience with Spanish Manuscripts, you can see about as many variations in spelling as there are authors. If the engraver was a German or Italian Jesuit, think they might have spelled things phonetically?

Mike
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Mike McChesney »

Beth,

She didn't answer it because she more than likely couldn't. She said it herself that anything mechanical was not in her area of expertise.

Mike
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Oroblanco »

Mike McChesney wrote:Beth,

The lettering and spelling ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be used to determine any type of authenticity.

We went through this before. I showed examples of period Spanish engraving that looked about the same as that on the stones. If you have any experience with Spanish Manuscripts, you can see about as many variations in spelling as there are authors. If the engraver was a German or Italian Jesuit, think they might have spelled things phonetically?

Mike
I realize this was addressed to Beth, but it brings up a very important issue on the stones. You are mistaken about your first statement, the lettering and spelling are among the most important methods used to determine authenticity of stone engravings. DA specifically addressed this issue in their findings, and found matching style art from a modern period.

If you look at other cases of suspicious stone carvings, the style of the lettering and artwork are vital issues. As with the Thoen stone, the style was a point of argument but the idea of a sandstone being carved with a knife was a larger issue for the skeptics, until a test done with a wetted sandstone proved that type of stone would carve fairly easily with nothing more sophisticated than a hunting knife. In other cases, a careful search eventually turned up other inscriptions (or texts) with the identical style letters, which were genuine and helped prove the questionable stone to be genuine, as with the Kensington runestone.

The Drake plate is another example, which the hoaxer(s) did a fairly good job of getting the style right but tests eventually proved it to be a modern fake. In that case it may well have been a 'pious fraud' since a local professor had been telling students about Drake having left behind a plate to record his landing in CA, so it appears that one (or more) felt that they should fill the gap by creating the missing plate.

The finding of trace bits of metal from the tools used to carve a stone inscription would help pin down the time period when they were created, up to a point. Steel and iron tools have been available for some time now, and a hand-powered chisel or drill will leave behind bits just as will a modern, electric powered one. Also, an electric drill bit will tend to 'catch' in stone, chipping out a gouge and is difficult to hold steady, especially when working around curves that go across the grain of the stone. If we look at the curved letters, what we see could be from a powered drill. The technology of 1800's did have powered drills but they were stationary, not hand-held, so the stone would have had to be moved under the bit.

I have asked you this before, however perhaps you have found a matching genuine Spanish or Mexican or Jesuit or other Catholic inscription known and proven to be genuine, that has a matching style of lettering and-or artwork to that seen on the Peralta stones? That would go some way to help the case for their authenticity. Thank you in advance,
Roy
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Somehiker »

Beth:
Two pertinent questions--

Why would Tumlinson alter the Heart Stone by adding the six zeros,if he had originally carved the stone maps himself ?
Why would he have made copies of his fake maps ?

Regards:Wayne
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Somehiker »

Gary:
Stone heads have been found in the Columbia River area before Tumlinson's time.
Although the "bigfoot" folks have seized on the discoveries,particularly of one such (unrelated) head from the east coast.This report does not have viewable pictures,but they probably are available elsewhere online.I haven't the time to look right now.

http://www.archive.org/stream/sculpture ... h_djvu.txt

Regards:Wayne
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Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Ozarker »

On 4 September 1926, the Victoria Daily Times, a newspaper in British Columbia (in the Pacific Northwest) published a set of eight drawings that a man named Robert Connell had made of a few petroglyphs that he had found along the West Coast Trail near Clo-oose, a fishing village on the southwest coast of Vancouver Island, British Columbia. The petroglyphs were thought to be of sailing vessels that were built in the mid-1800s, one of which was a clipper ship that had wrecked in nearby waters in 1869, and another of which was involved in search and rescue operations immediately after the wreck. It has been speculated that the carvings were made by certain members of a local Pacific Northwest Indian tribe, perhaps the Ditidaht First Nation.

There are a total of five ship glyphs that have been identified at the site. The three most detailed were of a three-masted clipper ship or barque (approximately four foot across), a two-masted brigantine (approximately three foot across), and a small one-foot pinnace. Near the largest sailing ship is a deeply-grooved glyph of a male figure, complete with top hat, seated upon a horse.

The most striking of the glyphs, the four-foot carving of the clipper, is shown on the cover of Glyphs and Gallows: The Rock Art of Clo-oose and the Wreck of the John Bright (1999, Heritage House Publishing Company, Ltd; Surrey, BC) by Peter Wilton Johnson. A preview of the book, which appears to be a fairly thorough study of the glyphs, can be seen on Google Books at the following link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=P5xDp5 ... &q&f=false


Since the book is a preview-only offering, only a fraction of the book can be seen, but particular notice should be given to the following pages:

Page 181: A map of the glyph site showing the interrelationships of the glyphs
Page 186: A photo of the three-masted clipper ship
Page 188: The glyph depicting what is believed to be the John Bright, the ship that wrecked
Page 195: A photo of the man and horse
Page 196: A photo of the two-masted brig


The glyph shown in color on the cover of the book (and in black-and-white on page 186) bears resemblance to Travis' carving, except that it is "sailing" in the opposite direction and the hull is a bit more pronounced. If the speculation is correct about what the glyphs represent, it appears they might have been carved after the ship (John Bright) wrecked in 1869 and no later than the date they were published in 1926.

I've never heard of these glyphs before (not really surprising), so I'm not sure whether they are famous in the sense that a lot of people, and perhaps even Travis Tumlinson, knew of them. The above book does mention that the public was amazed when the drawings of the glyphs were published, but of course Travis was still living in Texas at that time (1926).

Regarding the other side of Travis' stone, I haven't been able to decipher the writing on the lid of the chest carving, but need to check on a couple of things to see if they might pan out.

As for the Indian Heads, they are not quite what I pictured when I first saw mention of the possible additional stone in the MOEL-Peck correspondence. More on that later too.

(I'm having a hard time keeping up with the pace Garry has set!)

Larry

P.S. Thanks, Beth, for posting the e-mails from Desert Archeology. It's great that somebody actually contacted them - I always thought the article that got published was a little lacking in the details, so the messages really helped to flesh out some of the details.
Somehiker
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Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 6:00 pm

Re: Travis Tumlinson and the Stone Maps

Post by Somehiker »

Beth:
Although I personally have no doubt of the professional knowledge or the dedication of those who were involved in the examination of the stones provided by the Flagg Foundation/AMMM,which by the way,has been closed as of last April 30 th. (http://www.azminfun.com/),we should remember that DA is a corporate entity which exists in order to make money for it's own shareholders.By all accounts,the company provides a fair and valuable service to both archaeology and construction companies,as well as local and state agencies tasked with the preservation of historic sites.
I doubt that they feel the same spirit of adventure as we treasure hunters,however.
In fact,I don't believe that they have much regard for us at all.
Does anyone here honestly believe that any of them,OR Dr.Polzer was about to exclaim....
"By golly,I think these might be maps leading to buried treasure!!!"
Think about it.

Regards:Wayne
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