Peralta Stone Maps - Clarence Mitchell Era to the Present

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

Just wanted to add that Dr. Glover got a lot of the information about MOEL and the Stone Maps correct in his book.

Take care,

Joe

[Somehiker]

Joe:
I recall that Dr. Glover did mention,in a post on this site several years ago,that some of his information came from Greg's files as well.Probably the same documents that Greg and Garry have so graciously provided.Thank you gentlemen.

Regards:SH.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Wayne,

I will ask Thomas next time we talk, but I am pretty sure that he chased down a good deal of his Stone Map information outside of Greg's collection. The only credit he gives Greg, in that, is: [Stone Map discovery: Nobel Dryer's account from interviews with Clay Worst and Al Reser. Johny Steel carving the maps: Tom Kollenborn. The maps being discovered by a Mexican laborer: Greg Davis]

It may be that he used more than that from Greg's collection, but it's unlike him not to give individuals credit, where it's warranted.

Take care,

Joe

[novice]

Well, so much for piece-meal. Since I had already scanned the second agreement between MOEL and Peck, I went ahead and posted that document. (March 8, 1965) This is an unsigned document and I don’t know whether the signed contract is in Greg's Peck file or not. This contract superseded the July 26 contract with MOEL. I believe this was the contract that both parties moved forward with since there are references to this Agreement in some of the other documents that Roger shared.

The date on this document is only two days after the investigative report that Earl Pugh submitted. I guess Richard felt he was on firm ground as far as MOEL being legally able to consummate the agreement.

Peck claims to have already spent $70,000 in searching for the Peralta Treasure.

We also have the mention of a 5th Stone Map. Roger is taking a hands off approach to that story.

Garry

[zentull]

Glad that someone else has gone through the Peck file. I have been through it several times and always am impressed with Richard Pecks attitude on throwing money at the problem. Between that and other letters scattered thorough Gregs collection you find a lot of references to the additional maps.

This is where I found Al Morrows old map among other things.

Let me know if there is something you need posted or an additional copy of.

[Mike McChesney]

Maybe the fifth map was the Latin Heart?

Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

"Maybe the fifth map was the Latin Heart?"

Maybe, but I have the Latin Heart sitting in my office. You would need one hell of an imagination to make that connection.

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

Do you mean that you have a copy of the Latin Heart in your office? I understood the original to have been hammered to dust.

Well, if it was authentic, and it fit into the heart depression of the upper trail map, I can easily see how it could be "the" fifth stone map.

I also heard about another stone map that I am not at liberty to publicly post details about.

Mike

[Cubfan64]

Do you mean that you have a copy of the Latin Heart in your office? I understood the original to have been hammered to dust.

Well, if it was authentic, and it fit into the heart depression of the upper trail map, I can easily see how it could be "the" fifth stone map.

I also heard about another stone map that I am not at liberty to publicly post details about.

Mike

Dangit Mike - that's the one Blindbowman got from the church isn't it . Just kiddin' yah.

For those of you who have seen all the stones in person (including the latin heart), is it true that the heart impression is not filled all the way with the 1st heart stone, but with the thinner latin heart included, it's flush with the surface of the one they're inserted into?

[Somehiker]

"For those of you who have seen all the stones in person (including the latin heart), is it true that the heart impression is not filled all the way with the 1st heart stone, but with the thinner latin heart included, it's flush with the surface of the one they're inserted into?".

The recess in the upper trail map is indeed deeper than required for the well known heart stone.Both the Latin Heart and the "other" stone map that Mike has mentioned seem to be problematic and largely ignored by those who believe the stone maps to be fake.The "other stone map",due to the time frame of discovery ,around 1910, apparently seems to be especially difficult to link to any alleged fraudulent activity.

Regards:Wayne

[Mike McChesney]

Jim,

Have you ever been told how thick the Latin Heart was?

Mike

[novice]

I have completed the up-loading of the Richard Peck and Stone Maps related material that Roger Newkirk copied. There are a couple of items that I need to get back with Roger on but this includes the meat of the subject.

Peck’s involvement with MOEL appears to have lasted about a year and a half. It seemed to be winding down by the end of 1965.

The investigations conducted by Brower and Love into Travis Tumlinson’s background provide additional information of which I was not aware. I was aware of the existence of the Travis Tumlinson Manuscript and I’m sure it has survived but I have not physically laid my eyes on it and have been unable to talk anyone into allowing me to copy it. (I still have hopes!)

I think many of the questions, I posed early on in this thread, have been answered. There are still some areas that I need to digest and research.

BTW, Richard Peck had made contact with Erwin Ruth by December of 1964, so early on he was already shifting some of his interest away from the Stone Maps and trying to follow other teasure stories.

Garry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

The latest Peck documents are a real eye-opener. The charge that Tumlinson had added the zero's to the back of the heart is telling. Makes one wonder what else is "manufactured".

What else becomes obvious, at least to me, is that the Stone Maps were being used in attempts to make cash money from the start. It's been said that Tumlinson never tried to make money with the stones over the years that he had them. From what I have read, that is not true.

At this point, the story that Tumlinson actually purchased the stones from someone, starts to ring true. It would be interesting to find out who Tumlinson actually knew in Apache Junction, as well as Mitchell. Were there close ties to Chuck Aylor or Ted DeGrazia?

I have not read all of the documents you have posted from the Peck folder, but some answers may very well be found in them. Only someone very familiar with the terrain could have made those trail maps.

I would love to learn the complete truth here.

Thanks.

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

Garry,

The latest Peck documents are a real eye-opener. The charge that Tumlinson had added the zero's to the back of the heart is telling. Makes one wonder what else is "manufactured".

What else becomes obvious, at least to me, is that the Stone Maps were being used in attempts to make cash money from the start. It's been said that Tumlinson never tried to make money with the stones over the years that he had them. From what I have read, that is not true.

At this point, the story that Tumlinson actually purchased the stones from someone, starts to ring true. It would be interesting to find out who Tumlinson actually knew in Apache Junction, as well as Mitchell. Were there close ties to Chuck Aylor or Ted DeGrazia?

I have not read all of the documents you have posted from the Peck folder, but some answers may very well be found in them. Only someone very familiar with the terrain could have made those trail maps.

I would love to learn the complete truth here.

Thanks.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

Maybe I missed something, but the only thing I saw in all those documents was that Travis T had written a manuscript about how he found the stones and searched for their meaning. He was almost finished when he died.

So, are you placing Sims Ely in the same class as Travis T? Both men spent many years trying to figure out something. Later in life, they both wrote a story about what they did.

Travis never tried to make money off the stones in his lifetime (other than trying to figure them out).

What it looks like to me is that you were reading those documents with a bias and an agenda, because you missed, what to me, were the two biggest points:

1. The story as generally told is wrong (AGAIN). It seems that Travis never gave the stones to his brother Robert (Bob), or if he did, he only temporarily lent them to him. The story as generally known to date is that Travis gave the stones to his brother when he became ill. Robert kept them for a few years until he became ill as well. The current knowledge was that Robert died before Travis, which we now know is wrong. Robert survived Travis and Aileen by several years, and that they had had a falling out so bad that Robert didn't even know his brother was dead.

2. That there was/is a fifth stone! A heart shaped stone. On that stone is carved an Indian's Face with two lines through his lips.

After reading all the documents, I am a little more sympathetic to Clarence Mitchell as well. I was beginning to think he was more of a shyster, but the letter to Peck from Melford Brower explained a lot. Mitchell had (like so many that came after him) wrongly decoded the stones and refused to hear anybody else's theories. Seems he could even get combative if you thought he was not right. THAT says a lot about what happened to MOEL. Mitchell had investors. When his theory about the stones didn't lead to anything of value, and Mitchell refused to hear any competing theories, THAT could lead to serious clashes.

Best-Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

"What it looks like to me is that you were reading those documents with a bias and an agenda, because you missed, what to me, were the two biggest points:"

I don't believe I am missing anything or reading the documents with anything but an open mind. It may be possible that you are reading the documents with a bit of your own bias's getting in the way.

RICHARD PECK FILES:

In the letter dated April 1, 1965, which is under the heading of April 2, 1965 you will read this:

[Bob Bair at this point stated: There is something you should know. The zeros cut across the backside of the heart were carved there by Travis Tumlinson himself after he found the stones. He stated that Travis did this to throw anyone off guard who might see or steal the stones. (I rather suspect he did this to further entice financial assistance.)]

The documents that Garry has posted do tip the scales, IMHO, towards the entire story being made up. You, on the other hand, find many things in the documents that lean towards the stones and story being true.

The stones were in a constant state of flux, concerning what was carved on them. That does not bode well for anyone seeking a treasure with them. How do you know what might be real, and what was actually added by Tumlinson.......or Mitchell.

Take care,

Joe

[Mike McChesney]

Joe,

"I rather suspect" is no proof of anything. Did you miss the part right before that where Bob Blair quoted Travis T saying that he did that right after finding the stones to "throw any one off guard who might see or steal the stones?" Why would Travis have told Blair this if he ever intended to defraud somebody? That is something one keeps to themselves.

See Joe, you only seem to quote the part that furthers your beliefs. Has ANYBODY ever found ANYTHING that stated Travis T offered to sell the stones or wanted investors to give him money using the stones as enticement?

Any way, how close could Blair and Travis T have been? Travis never showed Blair (or even told him about) the horse/witch stone.

You zeroed in on one little thing that was someone's "suspicion" that had absolutely no backing of facts (that was directly refuted by the words of Travis T himself), while completely ignoring the two biggest revelations of the documents.

Best-Mike

[Somehiker]

It's funny.When you say that there are six zeros on the back of the heart,most folks will see "six zeros" in spite of what is really there.Take another look,then explain how one zero and five semi-ovals with alternating flat ends could help Tumlinson extract money from investors.

Regards:SH.

[Mike McChesney]

You know, I don't have a problem with Travis T carving those. There are possible even more things that he carved on them. Remember, he was the original finder/owner. He knew exactly what they looked like when they came out of the ground.

Remember that we have all noticed that there are two types of engraving. One is deep and well set, while the other is shallower and lighter. We have all wondered why that is. What if ALL the lighter carvings were made by Travis T to throw off others? Those stones might have looked completely different in 1949. There might have also been a fifth stone. Taking that into consideration, I can EASILY see why no one has correctly deciphered them yet!

Mike

[Mike McChesney]

That might also explain why we can't readily see the knife in the picture of the stones on Tumlinson's Bumper? ::WINK::

Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

Mike,

I'm sure you are right. Let me repeat this line:

(I rather suspect he did this to further entice financial assistance.)

Take care,

Joe

[Somehiker]

I tend to agree,Mike.I also suspect that some of the shallow markings were made some time after the stones were initially carved.Some may have been added post discovery as well,possibly by Tumlinson or even by Mitchell,in order to make the stones fit the Peralta mining stories that were already part of Superstition lore.This documentation seems to indicate a strong belief in the authenticity of the stones as true treasure maps by all concerned as well as providing documented evidence of the year of discovery of the first stones as 1948 or 1949.The location of the discovery is also given greater credence and I can assure you that the description given in the documentation is very accurate.The mound(which is the highest point in the area),the cut that Tumlinson used to access the creek and even the fence(although it is of more recent vintage) across the cut exist as described and exactly where described.
It might be possible to have the DMV Oregon records searched in order to determine if Tumlinson owned a 1939 Oldsmobile in 1948-49.

Regards:Wayne

[Mike McChesney]

Mike,

I'm sure you are right. Let me repeat this line:

(I rather suspect he did this to further entice financial assistance.)

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

I saw it, but he doesn't give ANY facts to back up the "suspicion". You also can't find ANY names in ANY of those documents that a person stated Tumlinson tried to "entice" them into an investment by showing them the stones. I could accept Tumlinson trying to get someone to assist him monetarily in a hunt (something like "You pay for the gas, hotel, and food, and you can go with me" kind of thing).

Mike

[Mike McChesney]

More specifically,

To my way of looking at things, there are two types of getting money from other people:

1. Enticing people by whatever methods to give you money to assist in solving the Stone Maps #1. This method is USUALLY not the only source of income for the searcher. USUALLY, the searcher has other gainful employment and just intends to use the extra capital strictly for the search.

2. Enticing people by whatever methods to give you money to assist in solving the Stone Maps #2. In this method, the investment monies are used as income (or extra income) for the searcher. They use the money for rent, bills, or (more specifically) to live a lifestyle that they could never afford on their original income.

See, when I say that someone never profited, I meant that they never intended to use any monies (their investors' monies) to improve their lifestyles. There is no issue with Method#1. The tradition is as old as business. People have always used investors in business ventures. Both rich and poor. As long as the investors' monies are used for the purpose for which it was invested, it is perfectly fine. It is only when the searcher uses his investors' monies to buy that Mercedes he always wanted, or get that bigger house, is when (to me) it becomes problematic.

If using the investment money to pay bills was stated clearly to the investors, it is again, not a problem. Personally, I would LOVE to find someone with enough money, that trusted me implicitly to invest enough money in me that my only job would be to travel and search for treasures. HAHAHA

Best-Mike

[Joe Ribaudo]

All,

Here are a number of posts that came from Kraig Roberts (Aurum), also know as Matthew Roberts:

The Stone Map question of authenticity is clouded in a lot of mis information and twisted facts. This is not the result of deception but rather retelling of stories that were part fact and part speculation.

For what it's worth, the FBI never did their own investigation into the Stone Maps. When Alleen Tumlinson sold the maps in 1961 to Clarence Mitchell, it was Mitchell who had the Stone Maps analized by three geologists who worked for the University of California at Los Angeles. Martin Stout was the professor of Geology at UCLA and D.L. Dana and Donald Chance were professors of geology and geoscience at Redlands University in Redlands, California. The three geologists, with help fromthe Redlands University Art History Department, concluded the maps were of an age, more than 100 years old but unable to give an exact age beyond that estimate. Professors Chance and Dana provided Clarence Mitchell with a letter of authenticity stating these findings.

Clarence O. Mitchell was MOEL Inc. He was the President and Chief executive officer of the MOEL Corporation incorporated under the laws of the State of Nevada. Arthur Meyers was the attorney for the corporation. When Clarence Mitchell was under investigation by the State of Nevada for securities violations, the FBI became involved because investments and assets were located outside the State of Nevada.

The FBI never did an investigation into the authenticity of the Stone Maps. They simply took Clarence Mitchell's letter of authenticity and questioned professors Stout, Dana and Chance about their findings. All three professors stood by their original conclusion based upon their earlier investigations, and Professor Dana provided the FBI and State of Nevada with a letter that confirmed their earlier conclusion.

Bob Corbin's comments, merely reflected what the FBI themselves knew about the authenticity of the Stone Maps. Bob Corbin is the former Attorney General of the State of Arizona. I have known Bob and his family for many years, have been in the mountains on numerous occasions with him and consider him to be honest and above board in all his dealings.

The FBI never confiscated the Stone Maps from MOEL Inc. They merely siezed them as evidence while the securities investigation was ongoing. The maps were returned to Clarence Mitchell following the investigation and it was Mitchell who donated the maps to the Arizona Mineral Museum which today includes the Flagg Foundation. The maps are today, on loan to the Arizona Mineral Museum / Flagg Foundation from MOEL Inc.

Aurum

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I just first read this exchange yesterday so didn't have the means to post any sooner.

The source for the Stone Maps being returned to Clarence Mitchell was Mason Coggins, former chief geologist and curator of the Arizona State Mineral Museum in Phoenix. Mason told me he received the stone tablets from Mitchell as a loan. The Museum never publically displayed the stones but did loan them out to interested groups or as a novelty during special events at the museum.

There were few investors outside of Mitchell himself, his family and close friends. Coggins stated it was Mitchell himself who approached the Museum. The Flagg Foundation did not become involved with the stones until later.

The stones were found to be of no value other than as a personal curiousity. Mitchell bought the stones, he did not dig them up himself and since it could not be proven other than by heresay where the stones were found, there was no legal claim the State or Federal Government had over them. For all anyone knew they could have came from anywhere. Mrs. Tumlinson was dead at the time of the investigations and could not be called upon to testify. The stones were old, but old is not the legal requirement to confiscate something. There are other legal requirements that must be proven to confiscate private property. Mitchell was never convicted of any crimes, he agreed to disolve MOEL Inc. and not to engage in securities exchange for the next 3 or 5 years. I believe Bob Corbin told me once that the whole matter was settled out of court but I am not certain if those were his exact words.

Confiscation and seizing property are two seperate things under the law. The government can confiscate property that clearly doesn't belong to someone or property that someone clearly got illegally. The government can seize private property but must prove the property is not the legal property of the individual or return it to them.

Other than Clarence Mitchell was also known as Travis Marlowe, a nom de plume, I can't add much to the story.

At one time I didn't believe the Stone Maps were authentic but have in years since changed that opinion. I do not know where the maps lead to, who made them or if they had anything to do with the Peralta's.

Aurum

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I can't say why some are getting threatening phone calls and messages. I know that the Stone Map topic is a very passionate issue with some folks. For all that is known about the stones, it is overshadowed by the mountain of things that aren't known. The MOEL Corporation and the legal problems that followed only served to cloud the issues even more. There are some very knowledgable people, here, and out there who know a whole lot more about the stones than I do and they guard their knowledge and secrets very seriously.

I feel for the investors who lost money in the MOEL investigation and never got it back. One has to take into account that in the early 1960's, the best these investors could hope to regain from the stone maps was the value Clarence Mitchell paid for them, $1,200. And that was only if someone back then would have paid that for them. We tend to fast forward to today and look at what the stones might bring on todays market after all the publicity of the past 43 years. The prospectus of the MOEL Corporation only promised a return on investment if the maps were acurate and the mines/treasure could be located and would still be in place. It was buyer beware in spades. MOEL wasn't in trouble so much for promising things they couldn't produce, rather they got in trouble for the way they went about selling their stock and for selling without a proper liscense.

My personal take on the whole thing is the government, while skeptical, never had evidence, nor could they prove the stone maps were a fake or that the Tumlinsons or Mitchell had any hand in their creation. That is by no means an endorsement of their authenticity, only the statement that while the government could prove MOEL
didn't follow proper proceedures in the sale of stock, they couldn't prove conclusively the stones were fakes.

Aurum

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gollum,

I have to agree with you completely about Alleen Tumlinsons role in the Stone Maps. Without her involvement the stones would have been lost forever. The story of where the stones originated, how and where they were found, as well as the account of the MOEL investigation leave a LOT of unanswered questions. What I have posted is just the little I have learned over the years from Bob Corbin, Martin Stout, Mason Coggins and a man named Robert Miller who now has the personal effects of Clarence O. Mitchell. A letter written in 1962 from Alleen Tumlinson to Clarence Mitchell is a real eye opener. The letter doesn't prove or disprove the authenticity of the Stone Maps or their origin but does point one to some conclusions that few if any Stone Map seekers have contemplated. The Mitchell material is not mine so I cannot comment on what I think. There is ongoing research but where it will lead and what it will uncover is again a big question mark. Nothing that would solve the puzzle of the Stone Maps but there is a possibility it might lead to their origin.

Concerning the other Forum you mentioned. There is no way information such as appears here could ever be posted or considered on that forum, for obvious reasons.

Aurum

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gollum,

You are on the right track with your information, I don't know where you got your information on Professor Stout but you are half right where he is concerned. I was going on memeory when I said he was at UCLA and you were correct when you said he was professor at CSULA in Los Angeles. Professor Martin retired about 1990 from CS LosAngeles and instructed field geology for UC LosAngeles for several years before his death but not with full professor status. The reason Stout and the others were approached involving the Stone Maps is obvious if your information is solid. I don't know where you got the idea the three geology professors were the three most prominent professors in California ? That is right out of left field and in the field of geology, while they were all very good at their specific geology fields, they would barely be mentioned in California's top 100.

Stout was a field geologist who did extensive study of the mineral belt of central Arizona and was well known locally in the 1950's and 1960's. He was the primary contact for Clarence Mitchell when Mitchell decided to have the Stone Maps analized. Professors Chance and Dana became involved due to their association with Professor Stout. Dana was a palo-geologist and Professor Chance was the head of the geology Department at Redlands and had strong ties to it's art history archives. Do you know Clarence Mitchell's background other than he was an acquaintance of Travis Tumlinson ? If you do, then you understand his association with Martin Stout.

One thing you have to understand is that while the Stone Maps are well known to some of us and a big deal and big part of some of our lives, to professor's Stout, Dana and Chance, they were just a blip on their screen, 44 years ago. They came into their lives for a very brief moment and then left, never to be seen or cared about again. None of these professor's had any ties or interest in the stones outside of being asked to make a determination of their age.

I understand your desire to absolutely verify every aspect of the Stone Map history and wish you luck. I think that outside of the Tumlinson's themselves, it was Clarence Mitchell, Arthur Meyers and possibly Mason Coggins who knew the most of their history. Several people today are quite knowledgable but they will be the first to admit that many important questions still remain unanswered. Some may never be answered no matter how hard one looks.

I have no interest in the stones myself. I don't know where they lead, who made them or if the Peralta's were ever involved. I have my own opinion as to their origin and authenticity but that is just my opinion. I don't really care what you think about any information I have. All I know about the Stone Maps comes from a very small handful of individuals and I believe what I learned from them and that is good enough for me. You can believe whatever you want and I'm still good with it. I'm sorry about the attacks that are going on and hope you know I have nothing to do with any of them.

Aurum

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Oro,

"I have no interest in the stones myself."

You misinterpret my meaning. If the stones are real or fake it doesn't affect me either way. I have no stake in the outcome. That doesn't mean I am not curious about them. I'm somewhat older than you youngsters so this story is not something I stumbled across one day in a treasure hunter magazine. I grew up with this story, the people, and dozens of others relating to the mountains and the Dutchman mine. My biggest interest in the stone Maps doesn't come from my own research, rather from the research of some old friends who were passionately interested in them. Al Reser, an old Dutch hunter, studied those maps for decades and was writing a book about them when he passed away. Some of the most knowledgeable Stone Map people alive today work from the knowledge and information Al Reser compiled during his lifetime and passed along. Al knew the Tumlinsons, Clarence Mitchell and many of the principles in the story. I sat with Al one night in the bunkhouse out at my ranch while he spread out his topo maps and tried to show me how to follow the directions on the Stone Maps. Try as I might, I just couldn't catch on to what he was telling me. But I did know that Al knew what he was talking about and that was what counted.

In regards to the geologists who analized the maps. I think the part most people miss is, it was not just the weathering of the carved rock, or the lichen growing on it that told the age of the stone carvings. The type of rock was important, and if that rock was present in the area where the carvings were found. if it wasn't, where was that type of rock present. Different types of rock react differently to carving. Some carve cleanly and wear slowly, others carve poorly and weather quickly. It was the palo-geology and art history expertise offered by Redlands University that I believe was the reason for the analysis being done there. The clincher came, I believe , when the question was asked, are there any other examples of this type of rock carving anywhere else in the world, and if so, where, and has it been positively dated, and finally, how does it compare to the Tumlinson's Stone Maps.

Aurum

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You will all have to read these posts with your own opinions concerning the reliability of Kraig Roberts statements. I believe most of you will trust what he has written.

I would like to see some of the documentation he speaks of as fact. My own personal belief is that they don't exist, and probably never did.

Joe Ribaudo

[Somehiker]

Odd repost:

Joe Ribaudo Post subject: Inside Information
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:39 pm
Offline
Expert

Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:36 pm
Posts: 4603
Gary,

Someone who seems to have gathered a good deal of "inside information"
on this case, is Matthew Roberts (Aurum).

Here are some of his better posts from another Forum:

The Stone Map question of authenticity is clouded in a lot of mis information and twisted facts. This is not the result of deception but rather retelling of stories that were part fact and part speculation.

For what it's worth, the FBI never did their own investigation into the Stone Maps. When Alleen Tumlinson sold the maps in 1961 to Clarence Mitchell, it was Mitchell who had the Stone Maps analized by three geologists who worked for the University of California at Los Angeles. Martin Stout was the professor of Geology at UCLA and D.L. Dana and Donald Chance were professors of geology and geoscience at Redlands University in Redlands, California. The three geologists, with help fromthe Redlands University Art History Department, concluded the maps were of an age, more than 100 years old but unable to give an exact age beyond that estimate. Professors Chance and Dana provided Clarence Mitchell with a letter of authenticity stating these findings.

Clarence O. Mitchell was MOEL Inc. He was the President and Chief executive officer of the MOEL Corporation incorporated under the laws of the State of Nevada. Arthur Meyers was the attorney for the corporation. When Clarence Mitchell was under investigation by the State of Nevada for securities violations, the FBI became involved because investments and assets were located outside the State of Nevada.

The FBI never did an investigation into the authenticity of the Stone Maps. They simply took Clarence Mitchell's letter of authenticity and questioned professors Stout, Dana and Chance about their findings. All three professors stood by their original conclusion based upon their earlier investigations, and Professor Dana provided the FBI and State of Nevada with a letter that confirmed their earlier conclusion.

Bob Corbin's comments, merely reflected what the FBI themselves knew about the authenticity of the Stone Maps. Bob Corbin is the former Attorney General of the State of Arizona. I have known Bob and his family for many years, have been in the mountains on numerous occasions with him and consider him to be honest and above board in all his dealings.

The FBI never confiscated the Stone Maps from MOEL Inc. They merely siezed them as evidence while the securities investigation was ongoing. The maps were returned to Clarence Mitchell following the investigation and it was Mitchell who donated the maps to the Arizona Mineral Museum which today includes the Flagg Foundation. The maps are today, on loan to the Arizona Mineral Museum / Flagg Foundation from MOEL Inc.

Aurum

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I just first read this exchange yesterday so didn't have the means to post any sooner.

The source for the Stone Maps being returned to Clarence Mitchell was Mason Coggins, former chief geologist and curator of the Arizona State Mineral Museum in Phoenix. Mason told me he received the stone tablets from Mitchell as a loan. The Museum never publically displayed the stones but did loan them out to interested groups or as a novelty during special events at the museum.

There were few investors outside of Mitchell himself, his family and close friends. Coggins stated it was Mitchell himself who approached the Museum. The Flagg Foundation did not become involved with the stones until later.

The stones were found to be of no value other than as a personal curiousity. Mitchell bought the stones, he did not dig them up himself and since it could not be proven other than by heresay where the stones were found, there was no legal claim the State or Federal Government had over them. For all anyone knew they could have came from anywhere. Mrs. Tumlinson was dead at the time of the investigations and could not be called upon to testify. The stones were old, but old is not the legal requirement to confiscate something. There are other legal requirements that must be proven to confiscate private property. Mitchell was never convicted of any crimes, he agreed to disolve MOEL Inc. and not to engage in securities exchange for the next 3 or 5 years. I believe Bob Corbin told me once that the whole matter was settled out of court but I am not certain if those were his exact words.

Confiscation and seizing property are two seperate things under the law. The government can confiscate property that clearly doesn't belong to someone or property that someone clearly got illegally. The government can seize private property but must prove the property is not the legal property of the individual or return it to them.

Other than Clarence Mitchell was also known as Travis Marlowe, a nom de plume, I can't add much to the story.

At one time I didn't believe the Stone Maps were authentic but have in years since changed that opinion. I do not know where the maps lead to, who made them or if they had anything to do with the Peralta's.

Aurum

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I can't say why some are getting threatening phone calls and messages. I know that the Stone Map topic is a very passionate issue with some folks. For all that is known about the stones, it is overshadowed by the mountain of things that aren't known. The MOEL Corporation and the legal problems that followed only served to cloud the issues even more. There are some very knowledgable people, here, and out there who know a whole lot more about the stones than I do and they guard their knowledge and secrets very seriously.

I feel for the investors who lost money in the MOEL investigation and never got it back. One has to take into account that in the early 1960's, the best these investors could hope to regain from the stone maps was the value Clarence Mitchell paid for them, $1,200. And that was only if someone back then would have paid that for them. We tend to fast forward to today and look at what the stones might bring on todays market after all the publicity of the past 43 years. The prospectus of the MOEL Corporation only promised a return on investment if the maps were acurate and the mines/treasure could be located and would still be in place. It was buyer beware in spades. MOEL wasn't in trouble so much for promising things they couldn't produce, rather they got in trouble for the way they went about selling their stock and for selling without a proper liscense.

My personal take on the whole thing is the government, while skeptical, never had evidence, nor could they prove the stone maps were a fake or that the Tumlinsons or Mitchell had any hand in their creation. That is by no means an endorsement of their authenticity, only the statement that while the government could prove MOEL
didn't follow proper proceedures in the sale of stock, they couldn't prove conclusively the stones were fakes.

Aurum

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gollum,

I have to agree with you completely about Alleen Tumlinsons role in the Stone Maps. Without her involvement the stones would have been lost forever. The story of where the stones originated, how and where they were found, as well as the account of the MOEL investigation leave a LOT of unanswered questions. What I have posted is just the little I have learned over the years from Bob Corbin, Martin Stout, Mason Coggins and a man named Robert Miller who now has the personal effects of Clarence O. Mitchell. A letter written in 1962 from Alleen Tumlinson to Clarence Mitchell is a real eye opener. The letter doesn't prove or disprove the authenticity of the Stone Maps or their origin but does point one to some conclusions that few if any Stone Map seekers have contemplated. The Mitchell material is not mine so I cannot comment on what I think. There is ongoing research but where it will lead and what it will uncover is again a big question mark. Nothing that would solve the puzzle of the Stone Maps but there is a possibility it might lead to their origin.

Concerning the other Forum you mentioned. There is no way information such as appears here could ever be posted or considered on that forum, for obvious reasons.

Aurum

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I have no idea what his last statement means, but this is still the best place on the planet to find serious information dealing with the LDM and other legends surrounding the Superstition Mountains, and it follows, of course, that Matthew's informaiton is usually the best of the best.

Joe Ribaudo


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Bad day Joe?

Regards:Wayne