for the skeptics Although short, I found Wilburns Lost Ledge of Gold to be a fairly coherent and interestingly written take on the LDM. Additionally he seems to be quite well versed in the areas of geology and mining.
He does a descent job in putting forth a scenario early in the book (pg4) of a group of six prospectors out of the Ft. McDowell area discovering a rich gold bearing ledge near Superstition Mountain in 1864, only to be attacked by Apaches and leaving only two survivors. He then follows on with a little LDM lore including a interesting segment about Rheinhardt Petrasch and how as the years went by he concentrated more of his efforts to the east around Campaign and Pinto Creeks.
In a previous thread on this board I mentioned that he claimed the Peraltas were nothing more than a story cooked up by J.A.Reavis to support his infamous scam. Peter responded uncharacteristically with no more than he does not know what he is talking about with no supporting reasons. Another statement he makes that I'm sure will generate some disagreement is "No one has found even a rock bearing gold in the Superstition Wilderness." I know of the numerous accounts of pieces found lying about, but maybe if he had prefaced that statement with "found at its original source", it may indeed carry some validity.
His brief history and geology of the various mines in the Goldfield area is interesting with an added description of Superstition geology we have all heard before and why it is not conducive to the formation of gold.
At the end of the book he puts forth his final premise that the prospectors mentioned early in the book discovered no less than the Bull Dog ledge in Goldfield and that of the two survivors, one was known to have moved on to California and the other was none other than Jacob Waltz himself, who eventually returned to he mine to reap the spoils.
Okay folks, there you have it. Feel free to tear into it. Admittedly, it may not be the most romantic version, but I personally found it to be one of the more plausible explanations of the LDM legend this novice has heard yet.
Here is one for the skeptics (import from old form)
Wilburn Goldfield, and the Peraltas
I thought I would throw in reply - if for no other reason than to get the discussion going on here at the "new" location.
I do not know what to make of all of Wilburns claims. But, I believe based on all accumlated relavent information, the LDM was NOT at Goldfield. That is my humble opinion, of course. Wilburn's ascertation that Waltz was one of the "surviving" members of a 6-man prospecting trip in 1864 does not jibe with the established history of Waltz and his movements. But, that is not to say there is not some kernel of fact in Wilburn's claim. It is just it is extremely unlikely it was "our" Jacob Waltz who was involved.
The overriding fact that the LDM was not at Goldfield is the ore analysis performed by Thomas Glover. Surviving "Dutchman Ore" did not match Goldfield ore. This is covered in detail in Glover's first book. That alone says so much.
Regarding the Peraltas: The Peraltas were real. There were Peraltas in Arizona in the 1800s. And in Phoenix. Robert Blair advanced an elaborate hypothesis about an actual Miguel Peralta of Phoenix being the twisted factual beginnings of the Peralta element of the legend. It is an interesting theory. But, Blair was incorrect in his assumption that Peralta was THE Peralta involved. Thomas Glover describes a branch of the Peralta family in Mexico that could very well be the "Peraltas" of the legend. Thus, it is unlikely the "Mad Baron of Arizona," Reavis, totally created the Peraltas out of thin air and the LDM legend simply picked it up. Even the Peralta element of the Reavis scam had a basis in reality. It is just the "grant" in question was not as Reavis presented it to be. Correspondingly, there is evidence of MEXICAN mining activity (of somekind) in and near the Superstitions. However, some would contend while there was a Mexican presence, it might not have necessarily been a "Peralta" presence.
I do not know what to make of all of Wilburns claims. But, I believe based on all accumlated relavent information, the LDM was NOT at Goldfield. That is my humble opinion, of course. Wilburn's ascertation that Waltz was one of the "surviving" members of a 6-man prospecting trip in 1864 does not jibe with the established history of Waltz and his movements. But, that is not to say there is not some kernel of fact in Wilburn's claim. It is just it is extremely unlikely it was "our" Jacob Waltz who was involved.
The overriding fact that the LDM was not at Goldfield is the ore analysis performed by Thomas Glover. Surviving "Dutchman Ore" did not match Goldfield ore. This is covered in detail in Glover's first book. That alone says so much.
Regarding the Peraltas: The Peraltas were real. There were Peraltas in Arizona in the 1800s. And in Phoenix. Robert Blair advanced an elaborate hypothesis about an actual Miguel Peralta of Phoenix being the twisted factual beginnings of the Peralta element of the legend. It is an interesting theory. But, Blair was incorrect in his assumption that Peralta was THE Peralta involved. Thomas Glover describes a branch of the Peralta family in Mexico that could very well be the "Peraltas" of the legend. Thus, it is unlikely the "Mad Baron of Arizona," Reavis, totally created the Peraltas out of thin air and the LDM legend simply picked it up. Even the Peralta element of the Reavis scam had a basis in reality. It is just the "grant" in question was not as Reavis presented it to be. Correspondingly, there is evidence of MEXICAN mining activity (of somekind) in and near the Superstitions. However, some would contend while there was a Mexican presence, it might not have necessarily been a "Peralta" presence.
Glad you said that S C, saved me some typing. That said, I have always had the notion that one could find kernels of truth in even the silliest
theories and stories. Wilburn pamphlet is a case in point (not to say its "silly", per se, just that some of his conclusions are incorrect....I did like his snippets of history about the various Goldfiled mines and claims).
Wilburn has an interesting item in his pamphlet, yet because of his Bulldog mindset, completely misses its importance.
theories and stories. Wilburn pamphlet is a case in point (not to say its "silly", per se, just that some of his conclusions are incorrect....I did like his snippets of history about the various Goldfiled mines and claims).
Wilburn has an interesting item in his pamphlet, yet because of his Bulldog mindset, completely misses its importance.
Wilburn - Lost Ledge
I remember thinking the same thing when I read the Wilburn pamphlet, that it seemd pretty reasonable. That is, up until the point where he finds it necessary to make Waltz one of the members of the Binkley expedition. Unless he has other sources not mentioned, I'm not sure how he can claim that. If you look at Binkleys bio in the Hayden files (available online), theres a detailed account of a similar story that happened to him also in 1864 - on a mining expedition with five men, attacked by Indians, day long battle, and Binkley having to walk for help, since most of the other members were unable to walk from injuries. Except this one happened east of Walnut Grove, at a place called Battle Flat. (btw, Battle Flat is listed on the topo, maybe a good place for a future hike?)
I'm also not sure why he has to claim the Peraltas never existed. He's making the case for old Mexican mine shafts being found in Goldfield, which may or may not have been Peralta mines without affecting his main point. Maybe he's just discounting the typical tale of Waltz getting his mine directly from the Peraltas.
In the Greg Davis compilation of early newspaper stories, there are several tales of finding Mexican mining camps and shafts in the Goldfield area. Also, more details on the Alfred Stong Lewis' story of finding the old mine shaft in a back issue of the SMHS journal.
The Binkley/Thorndyke story seems to have the wrong date, since Fort McDowell wasn't there until 1865. Also, unless Binkley was really unlucky, it seems unlikely he would have two mining parties almost wiped out in the same year. (Although I'd guess that some would say that the Bulldog mine story is just another version of the Battle Flat story). I wonder if anyone has seen a military report from this time period that would confirm the story of miners being rescued near the Superstitions by soldiers from Fort McDowell?
I'm also not sure why he has to claim the Peraltas never existed. He's making the case for old Mexican mine shafts being found in Goldfield, which may or may not have been Peralta mines without affecting his main point. Maybe he's just discounting the typical tale of Waltz getting his mine directly from the Peraltas.
In the Greg Davis compilation of early newspaper stories, there are several tales of finding Mexican mining camps and shafts in the Goldfield area. Also, more details on the Alfred Stong Lewis' story of finding the old mine shaft in a back issue of the SMHS journal.
The Binkley/Thorndyke story seems to have the wrong date, since Fort McDowell wasn't there until 1865. Also, unless Binkley was really unlucky, it seems unlikely he would have two mining parties almost wiped out in the same year. (Although I'd guess that some would say that the Bulldog mine story is just another version of the Battle Flat story). I wonder if anyone has seen a military report from this time period that would confirm the story of miners being rescued near the Superstitions by soldiers from Fort McDowell?
To answer your "military report" question. I have done some digging over the past year and while reports from the era are out there, they are difficult to access unless one knows which units were involved. Depending on the units in question they could be anywhere in Ft Drum (California Column), Arizona (1st Arizona Volunteers) ot the US ARMY War College (Regular US Infantry and Cavalry units from Ft McDowell, Picket Post etc..)
To make things even more fun the 1st Arizona (which did the bulk of its Indian fighting in 1865-66) was later remaned the 159th Infantry Regiment, so it too might have some records in the War College.
Something else that stymies the researcher is the fact that there were no place names back then. "Sugarloaf Butte" for example might be called "Big Top Mtn" in one report and " a flat peak" in another.From what I have seen, they generally did not name the landmarks back then, except for the more important features...the Salt River, Superstition Mountain, etc...
I just finished reading an interesting account of Crooks Tonto Basin campaign of 72-73 (by Bourke) and it names the Superstitions many times, but always refers to indivdual mountains as "those cliffs" or "that tall peak". A band of Western Apache were referenced several times as having about 100 warriors in a rancheria just south of the Salt River, using a mountain with "precipitous cliffs" as a stronghold (sounded like Tortilla Mtn when I read it, but who can say for sure). These Apache surrendered after the Battle of Skull Cave.
P
To make things even more fun the 1st Arizona (which did the bulk of its Indian fighting in 1865-66) was later remaned the 159th Infantry Regiment, so it too might have some records in the War College.
Something else that stymies the researcher is the fact that there were no place names back then. "Sugarloaf Butte" for example might be called "Big Top Mtn" in one report and " a flat peak" in another.From what I have seen, they generally did not name the landmarks back then, except for the more important features...the Salt River, Superstition Mountain, etc...
I just finished reading an interesting account of Crooks Tonto Basin campaign of 72-73 (by Bourke) and it names the Superstitions many times, but always refers to indivdual mountains as "those cliffs" or "that tall peak". A band of Western Apache were referenced several times as having about 100 warriors in a rancheria just south of the Salt River, using a mountain with "precipitous cliffs" as a stronghold (sounded like Tortilla Mtn when I read it, but who can say for sure). These Apache surrendered after the Battle of Skull Cave.
P
I've also been reading some more of the books on the Arizona Indian wars lately. I find myself with a book in one hand and maps in the other trying to follow their descriptions. But as you say, they either don't give placeanames, or the names aren't consistant, or don't match present day names.
Cozzens book is pretty good, and he tries to help with the place names in his footnotes. But it seems to be a sampling of interesting articles and military reports from the time frame, not comprehensive. Huachuca Illustrated also gives some verbatim military reports interspersed with a historical overview. I've read Bourke's book, but I guess he also wrote a multi-volume set of diaries which other authors use as source material.
But I haven't seen any comprehensive compilations; I'd like to see someone focus on a narrower region or time period and give more of the military reports and other source material. Maybe there's not much of an audience for that.
Cozzens book is pretty good, and he tries to help with the place names in his footnotes. But it seems to be a sampling of interesting articles and military reports from the time frame, not comprehensive. Huachuca Illustrated also gives some verbatim military reports interspersed with a historical overview. I've read Bourke's book, but I guess he also wrote a multi-volume set of diaries which other authors use as source material.
But I haven't seen any comprehensive compilations; I'd like to see someone focus on a narrower region or time period and give more of the military reports and other source material. Maybe there's not much of an audience for that.
I agree, I was chatting with a good friend of mine about the very subject you bring up: the lack of a comprehensive book/treatsie on the military campaigns in the Superstition region. I think it would be difficult to do as much of the narrative would revolve around guess work as to the location of the various engagements. I have, for example, read private accounts of fights near Goldfield, Garden Valley and the Tortilla area...but that also involves guesswork on either my part or the authors. I have also read a good article by Tom Kollenborn about the military history of the region, but other than that, I havent seen much of anything else...and I have been looking!. I actually am thinking of doing a piece for the Journal on the subject, but will wait until the journals start appearing on a regular basis before committing to a project.
One book I've been thinking about getting is "Camp Reno: Outpost in Apacheria", by Jim Schreier. I was thinking that it might fit what I was describing earlier - focuses on a specific place rather than all of Arizona, and focuses on a shorter time frame since Camp Reno wasn't around that long. What I don't know is how much detail it goes into. Has anyone read this book?
Something interesting in Vol 17 of the SMJ.
On pg 29 in an article entitled "When the Bull Dog Was a Mine", Jack San Felice writes "...Binkley and five other prospectors". Then below he states that while Binkley managed to slip away from the fight, "two of the wounded died there and two more died after being taken back...". "Binkley was the only survivor" and soon left for California.
I'm not a mathmatician, but it seems a total of six went in and only five are accounted for.
San Felice does mention at the end of the atricle that some believe the Bull Dog to be the LDM because of its 18" wide vein, rich ore pockets, and N/S trending canyon.
On pg 29 in an article entitled "When the Bull Dog Was a Mine", Jack San Felice writes "...Binkley and five other prospectors". Then below he states that while Binkley managed to slip away from the fight, "two of the wounded died there and two more died after being taken back...". "Binkley was the only survivor" and soon left for California.
I'm not a mathmatician, but it seems a total of six went in and only five are accounted for.
San Felice does mention at the end of the atricle that some believe the Bull Dog to be the LDM because of its 18" wide vein, rich ore pockets, and N/S trending canyon.