Adolph Ruth - Did He See The LDM?????

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Roger
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Adolph Ruth - Did He See The LDM?????

Post by Roger »

Gary Condiff has a web site with an excellent collection of documents related to Adolph Ruth's death:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... tchman.htm

Under the section titled "Case Studies of Various Stories..." clike on "Adolph Ruth's Directions to the Lost Dutchman Mine". Gary does a very good job at analyzing what has been handed down on Adolph's directions to finding the LDM including the famous blood stained note. On pages 4/5 of this document, Gary writes about Jim Bark's involvements with Adolph's death including the following:

(Gary wrote) Bark writes further:
“It is my conclusion that Ruth had been to the mine, and was on his way back to his camp. If not, how could he have written “I came, I saw, I conquered”? Why did he write it? A prospector in those hills does not waste time in writing while away from camp, unless he has a very urgent reason. And the fact that he folded his note so completely and hid it so absolutely, where ordinarily if held up it would not be found, he must have had reason to think that he was going to be held up and killed, otherwise, there would be no reason for the writing. I have condensed this Ruth story almost to the limit.
(Gary wrote) This particular account, September 1932, is believed to have come by way of Jim Bark to John Spangler to Al Reser to Clay Worst and Gregory Davis.
There is a strong connection between Bark's view and the letters from Alaska that have been shared (suspected to be from either Prenell or Keenan) in which the writer claims to have been to the mine "once". I previously had concluded that Adolph was killed on the way to the mine when he figured the individuals with him were going to kill him regardless. I am now more of the mind that Adolph lead his killers to the mine and that they were either back in camp or headed back to their camp when he was killed. With the mine located, Adolph was a liability to those with him.

Any other views on this?

Roger
Joe Ribaudo
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Ruth And Where He Danced........

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roger,

Garry has done an excellent job of putting together a site that will be of value to old Dutch Hunters, as well as to those who are new to the game.

It's always been my personal opinion that Ruth knew exactly where he wanted to be, and found something important very close to Willow Spring. I have, of course, voiced that opinion many times over the years.

Every clue points to that area, and more specifically the ridge that separates East and West Boulder Canyons. If you follow Bicknell's written directions, which I assume Ruth did, you end up in a ravine/canyon on the east side of West Boulder, just south of Willow Spring. On the west facing wall of West Boulder, there is a sealed mine. It is well within reason that Ruth could make it to that mine, even with his limited physical abilities.

Everything that took place after Ruth's death was meant to lead away from the Willow Spring area. It was never considered as Ruth's final destination. That story, as we now know, was carefully manufactured by Tex Barkley for reasons unknown. Reasons unknown but surely suspected.

The history of that ridge is an interesting story. it was well told by Matthew Roberts, and I suspect that much could be added by people like Tom Kollenborn, Greg Davis and a number of other old timers.

Adolph Ruth is a story I never grow tired of.

I noticed today that Peter's domain name is up for sale by Go Daddy. Anyone know what happened to end that particular dream? Has anyone heard from Peter?

Take care,

Joe[/b]
pippinwhitepaws
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Post by pippinwhitepaws »

well...here goes...

i agree ruth may have been to the mine...i also believe everything written about ruth has been tainted...

why would healthy young men have to kill an old man to take his treasure? clearly they could have taken the maps and treasure without murder...it was always an unclaimed mine...no legal authority would support ruth if the people accused of murder, would have taken possession of the mine...

there was one person who has managed to keep their name out of the tales...
the one person who listened to the tales, lived within walking distance of the mine...
whom everyone knew was a treasure hunter, yet....who's name is never spoken?
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Valid Points......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

pip,

You make some valid points.

I would assume that Ruth had to die, because he did not find a removable treasure, but a mine that needed to be worked. That would take time, and having the old man stirring up trouble would make things much more difficult, if not impossible.

There were a number of people in the mountains when Ruth was killed.......strange as it seems. Names were never mentioned, because Ruth's death was ruled accidental or natural causes. Many were suspected in the case, including the Barkley family and friends, but few people would voice those opinions......in public. Considering the official verdict, that seems reasonable.

Trying to find logical thinking behind a killing is sometimes frustrating. Often there is no sane thought process at all. Those things would seem to be outside the topic outline here. Trying to asertain if Ruth actually saw what he was looking for (the LDM?) might be something we can get close to.

Someone finding that sealed mine on the ridge might be a step in the right direction. If it is there, I didn't see it myself, I may be able to provide some help finding it.

Nice questions,

Joe Ribaudo
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Post by zentull »

Nope
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Post by zentull »

Peters site expired the other day. There is a mirror site, but it is in fragments and difficult to work through.
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
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Post by zentull »

Didn't mean to wander off on the thread, but you can access it all here.

http://www.lostdutchmanmines.com/index.html


The forum is just the older archives and a mess, but it may interest a few souls.
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
Ozarker
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Let's Be Honest

Post by Ozarker »

There's only one reason the other site went off the line. Figure it out

Ozarker
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Re: Let's Be Honest

Post by Cubfan64 »

Ozarker wrote:There's only one reason the other site went off the line. Figure it out

Ozarker
Ozarker (Larry W correct?). I hope I have the right person - if I did, you're the one who hiked to the dacite mines with Greg Davis and I a couple years ago at the Rendezvous.

I have a sense that I know where you're going with your statement, but I'm still pretty lousy at "reading" all the different personalities and agendas within the LDM hunting community.

If you're not comfortable posting your theory here directly as to why you think it close down, would you be comfortable sending me a PM or email? I'm just curious - I have a couple thoughts myself, but really don't know.

Thanks

Paul
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Post by Cubfan64 »

Sheesh, I'm an idiot Ozarker!!! I don't know where my mind has been lately - I do know who you are, and it's not who I surmised in my post.

So sorry about that - I hate getting older :P.

Paul
Roger
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Lost Dutchman Mines Website

Post by Roger »

The LostDutchmanMines.com website died for one reason only - costs.

Joe R. posted earlier that he had seen that the Domain Name for the site was up for sale. Seems to verify why it died and that it won't be coming back. The site had no advertising to offset its costs as done by all the other LDM related sites.

The only thing still up on the site are the sections with articles - the Forums section is gone and is what crashed a couple of times before. That's where all the "meaty" LDM discussions were taking place.

Roger
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Post by Gregory E. Davis »

Hello everyone: I have noticed a number of questions and theories recently posted regarding the demise of Peter's Web Site plus some emails I have receive pertaining to that subject. Here is what I know to date: Peter's website died a natural death. The domain and annual maintenance costs ran out and at that time Peter decided not to renew the webite. The website became to much to monitor, hackers had disabled certain functions and new members could only be signed up upon private request due to spammers and hardware issues. Monitoring the site on a daily basis became to much of a time consuming task and Peter and his partners decided to devote their time and efforts into going back into the mountains searching for the LDM which they have been doing since late last year. That it, Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
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Post by Cubfan64 »

Hello Greg - Darn that's a shame that the other forum won't be coming back. I wouldnt' have been able to do anything about the time consuming nature of moderating and running a forum, but speaking for myself I would have been happy to donate some $ to keep it going.

The disappointing thing for me is that there were alot of "voices" over there who I know won't post here for reasons not worth going into. That means a large amount of knowledge and discussion will simply fade away over time and be lost to many other "newcomers" to the story.

I'm glad I got interested when I did so I was privy to more than many other folks ever will be to this adventure.

Incidently - Azmula mentioned that he was going to have an article in the 2010 SMHS Journal - I'm guessing that's still quite a ways away from being put together for purchase?

Thanks - I'll be in touch before October again as I'll probably see if I can stop by for a 1/2 day or evening again.

Paul
Joe Ribaudo
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Respect......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Paul,

Many people joined Peter's site, and paid him the respect for a job well done. That would include me. Others have tried to contact Peter after the site went down and have told me they got no reply. That would include me.

Not taking the time to give us a heads-up before the site was dumped, nor answer our e-mails, shows little respect for the members. I believe we deserved better treatment than that.

Can't help but feel we have not heard the entire story here. I know Peter was very busy, but as I understand it, there were six partners involved in the site.

My hope is that they are all well, and will eventually return to the LDM Forum.

Looking forward to seeing you at the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous. Let's work hard in trying to get Roy and Beth Decker, as well as some of the other members of Treasure Net to the event. :)

Take care,

Joe
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Post by Cubfan64 »

For what it's worth, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the folks who ran Peter's forum. I do imagine it's alot of work monitoring and moderating a forum and also it's likely not cheap to keep up either.

As far as getting other folks to come out to the Rendezvous, I'll let you contact Molina and BB :twisted:
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Post by Somehiker »

OH NO...don't do that 8O
SH.
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Post by Somehiker »

Then again.
Maybe he'll just drop in on his way over.... :roll:
SH.
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Re: Respect......

Post by djui5 »

Joe Ribaudo wrote:Let's work hard in trying to get Roy and Beth Decker, as well as some of the other members of Treasure Net to the event. :)

Take care,

Joe
Joe,
I really hope Roy and Beth can make it! I haven't logged into that site in a while. Tell them I said hello.
Randy Wright
Hobbiest LDM seeker
Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
Joe Ribaudo
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That Personal Touch........

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Randy,

"I really hope Roy and Beth can make it! I haven't logged into that site in a while. Tell them I said hello."

Since you are able to log in here, I would assume you can log in there and tell them hello yourself. Making the effort to get in touch with old friends is much more meaningful when you take the time to do it yourself. It would also be better if you were to personally invite them to the Rendezvous......again. :)

Hope you have more time to spend out there this year.

Take care,

Joe
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Post by djui5 »

Yeah, you are right. I'll log in there one of these days.
Randy Wright
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Mesa, AZ

"I don't care if it has electric windows. I don't care if the door gaps are straight, but when the driver steps on the gas I want him to piss his pants."
Enzo Ferrari
don
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Re: Adolph Ruth - Did He See The LDM?????

Post by don »

A little bored so I thought Id drop in and take a peep at the Ruth (did he fin d/see the LDM?) thread....was he murdered? was he a victim of death by natural causes? etc. It seems nothing much changes in "dutchman world",where the simple solution is discarded in favour of the convoluted one.
One thing does surprise me though,and that is the lack of,what used to be most common at one time.I am of course refferring to the cadre of "secret squirrel" special agents who knew exactly what happened to poor old adolph.....indeed could prove the exact set of circs which surrounded his death...if only ,of course,if they were allowed to divulge that knowledge.
Until the "secret squirrels" return I guess we can but wonder..I guess
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