Michael Bilbrey

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zentull
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Michael Bilbrey

Post by zentull »

Recently I was trying to help out Jim Hatt in locating Michael Bilbrey. I had contacted Bilbrey a couple years back to try and get him out to the rendezvous. He showed some initial interest but pulled out later as I remember. As far as I know he is still in the Casa Grande area and I meant to try and visit last year while working in the area, but ended up pulling some long hours that made it impossible. I never asked any questions about his discovery figuring that would come at the rendezvous itself. Hopefully Roger will post about his trip and information concerning Bilbreys site of where the crosses were found that he took some years back. Jim Hatt said that it was Greg that went with Roger to the discovery site, but I thought Roger told me last fall that he made the trip with Jim? Could be my memory is faulty on that.

I am hoping that we can persuade Bilbrey perhaps this year to join us and tell his story about the crosses and what happened to them.
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Cubfan64
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Post by Cubfan64 »

Hi Wayne - I'm looking forward to seeing you again this fall.

When Roger and I were hiking out to Peter's Mesa last October, I remember him pointing out the location Bilbrey found the crosses. It would indeed be very interesting to hear Bilbrey recount his discovery!
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Post by zentull »

Paul,

Looking forward to it. I will be checking on some stuff, but be aware that with the economy and all, the state parks have had issues. They kicked everyone out of the Lost Dutchman park for a few days and some spots are on limited basis or for all intents and purposes closed.

Of course you can always pitch a tent in Randys front yard. Just do your toiletries in his neighbors yard.

The whole story is a bit interesting in that the published news stories differ a bit in crucial areas from his interview he did with Greg. Sometime in the early eighties he just vanished from the scene and has never really been very topical since. I know either Clay or Jim Hatt had a theory that the crosses could be tied to the stone maps and I thought there was an article on it, but I can't remember where.

Bilbrey has had a number of personal issues that may or may not cause some to speculate about the whole story, but most of this arose long after the discovery and may not be relevant in time and place.

Most interesting and important would be what happened to the actual crosses and where are they today. Acquiring them for the museum would be a wonderful thing before they eventually are gone forever.
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Joe Ribaudo
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Hatt Stuff.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

I believe this may be the article you are referring to:

http://www.desertusa.com/ldm-1/peralta.html

Looking forward to seeing you in October.

Take care,

Joe
Roger
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Mike Bilbry's Stone Crosses

Post by Roger »

The following is my total involvement with Mike Bilbry’s Stone Crosses in the time period of 1996 to 1999:

In my early LDM research prior to learning of the Greg Davis’s vast collection, I did what I could to collect info and maps. One of the sources I used to get map copies was to have the curator at the Superstition Mtn Museum (then located at Goldfield) to allow me to take down a number of the pictures/photo’s they had on the wall of LDM maps and to make copies of them using transparency paper and foil markers. One of the copies I made was of the Stone Maps.

Around 1996 I learned of Jim Hatt being a Dutch Hunter and was able to make contact with him. We met at the Village Inn restaurant in Apache Junction and went over some LDM info that each was willing to share. I had a copy of the Stone Maps with me and Jim was interested in it and I later mailed him a copy. Jim gave me a disk copy of the USGS 1902 survey of the Supers, which predated all the lakes on the Salt River.

I moved from Arizona in 1997, but still went there on work related travel and would dig in Greg’s collections when I could work in an extra day. One thing I discovered was Greg having an audio taped interview with Mike Bilbry made in July 1978. Greg made me a copy of the Bilbry tape. Greg also had a file on Bilbry and in it were copies of Bilbry’s mining claims that he had filed on the Southwest corner of Tortilla Mtn which I copied.

As I was planning on one of my business trips to Phoenix in July 1999, I emailed Jim Hatt about us getting together and talking Dutch hunting. I also asked if he would be interested in getting a copy of the Bilbry tape if he didn’t already have it. Jim had already found Bilbry’s claims through his own research, but was interested in Bilbry’s tape. I got Greg Davis’ permission to make a copy and gave it to Jim.

That’s the history of my involvement with Mike Bilbry’s Stone Crosses. I have not been to the site he claims to have found the crosses at and have never tried to hunt for anything based on Bilbry’s information. I have only listened to the tapes several times – making notes on key items and tried to map the locations Mike was talking about. I have looked around on top of Tortilla Mtn a little, but never spent much time there.

Here are a few points from Bilbry’s tape:

Mike was originally using the Peralta Stone Maps in trying to locate the LDM. He made his interpretation of where the Peralta Stone Maps were leading and ended up in the Tortilla Ranch and Tortilla Mtn areas. While searching the SW side of Tortilla Mtn, he found several “X”’s on the face of a cliff face. He dug under one and found a shaft that he cleared to its bottom at 20 feet and found a quartz vein but it was of no value. He dug at another “X” and found the Stone Crosses in loose gravel. The big/fat one was found first and was lying face down and broken. The other cross was found next to it. Mike then filed his claims starting in late 1982 which surrounded the location where the crosses were found. He noted on Arizona Mining Claim #189723 that there was a “large cross above the mine in a northeast direction”. When that area didn’t yield anything, he began to explore the rest of Tortilla Mtn and claimed to have found a large number of old covered mine shafts elsewhere on Tortilla.

For a general location of where Mike said he found the crosses using a 1:24,000 topo: If you follow Peters Trail from Tortilla Ranch trailhead until it goes through the small pass at the SW corner of Tortilla Mtn before it turns to the North, there will be a small knob on the North side of that pass with the elevation marker 3900. Run a line 23 degrees West of North for exactly 1 inch on the map and you will be approximately at the discovery site from what I can make of the tapes plus the mining claims.

That’s about the sum of my “Stone Crosses” experience. I have heard/read other sources that claimed the Crosses were found at the head of Cottonwood Canyon that runs up the SW side of Tortilla Mtn out of Peters Canyon. However, that location would not match where Bilbry had his claims.

Roger
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Post by zentull »

Thanks Roger, that clears things up a bit. Seeing how the Bilbrey stuff never got aired out much in any forum before I hope someone who came in contact or knew about his later searches might add in.

Then again getting the man himself to put in an appearance would answer a lot of questions as well.

Greg mentioned Monte when I spoke to him about Bilbrey, So I would guess Monte knew him somehow. Perhaps if and when Greg would ever acquire Montes stuff concerning the LDM we may learn more.
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Jim Hatt's Info On Mike Bilbry

Post by Roger »

Jim Hatt has a Forum section on the Lost Dutchman on the DesertUSA web site at:

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/

Jim has a thread in his section that covers Mike Bilbry which has a larger overview on him than what I posted. For those interested, here's the link:

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=370

Jim's Forum section has some interesting stuff on it - three in particular are the Peralta Stone Maps, the mine he found in the area where Jenkins found his gold, and the Miller Mines history. Some great photo's and personal search stories.

Roger
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Post by zentull »

Didn't someone publish sketches or representations of the Bilbrey crosses in a book? I thought it was in Wards book or the Mosier book, but didn't see them. Figured that might help folks looking to see what we are talking about.

I believe this is the first thread here after all these years dealing with Bilbrey. It doesn't seem to elicit much response.
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Post by Cubfan64 »

Wayne,

Don't mistake lack of response for lack of interest. It's a subject I'm only vaguely familiar with and while I'd love to interject questions/comments, I have to try to educate myself a bit first.
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Stone Crosses Photo's

Post by Roger »

If you go to the bottom of Jim Hatt's web page that Joe Ribaudo gave a link to above, you will find a photo of the Stone Crosses.

Jim Hatt published a small booklet titled "The Peralta Stone Maps, The Stone Crosses & The Latin Heart" in 2005. He has a photo of the Stone Crosses on pages 14/15. The narrative in the booklet is about the same as he has on the web page. The Superstition Mountain Museum used to sell his book for $9.95 but I don't see it on their book listing today. They might still have it.

I think the Stone Crosses are a somewhat obscure part of the Lost Dutchman lore - probably because they were not made very public early on plus the discrediting of them as fakes didn't help. As Jim notes, the markings on the crosses contain some of the same symbols that Chuck Kenworthy has in his book "Treasure Signs, Symbols, Shadow & Sun Signs" (1991).

My personal opinion is that the Spanish/Mexicans had active mines in the heart of the Superstitions that the Peralta Stone Maps were designed to locate one of them. Also, the Spanish/Mexicans had mines on the NE part of Tortilla Mountain at the same time period and I would suspect the Stone Crosses were designed to locate those mines. Thomas Glover in his book "The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz - Part 1: The Golden Dream" has a small insert article on Page 208. An Apache told Whoolie Bacon the following:

"There were two groups of "Mexicans", and only the southern group was massacred. When the southern group was attacked a few men escaped to the north warning the northern group camped around Indian Springs. Unloaded burros were immediately sent up a canyon trail to the top of the east end of Tortilla Mountain where a group was working. When the mules came down they were loaded with rocks. The Apache watched this, but did not have enough men to attack both groups, and the northern group escaped. Years later Monte Edwards confirmed he had found this old trail and followed it, at the top Monte found the Four Peaks looked as one."

I think this tale is true plus the enduring feud between the Peralta's and the Gonzales' started from this fight with the Peralta's being the southern group that was massacred and the Gonzales being the northern group that escaped with their gold load. The Peralta's believed the Gonzales should have gone to the aid of their men instead of escaping with their gold and scalps.

Roger
Joe Ribaudo
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More Fantasy???

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roger,

Hope all is well with you and the family.

No matter what the prison records state, as Bilbrey's birth date, there is not much chance that this is not the man who claims to have found the Stone Crosses:

From: NCAHF News, September/October 1995 Volume 18, Issue #5 we find this:
_____________________________________________________________

CANCER QUACK GETS 5 YEARS
On June 20, Michael Kent Bilbrey, 44, of Chandler, AZ was sentenced to 5 years in prison and ordered to pay $39,300 in restitution for selling a quack cure that was nothing more than a concoction of cranberry juice, saline solution and household bleach. Bilbrey pleaded guilty in March to a charge of theft, admitting that he promoted his potion as a cure for cancer and AIDS with no scientific justification.
_____________________________________________________________

This Michael Bilbrey was born in 1951.

While this is no guarantee that he created a hoax, it does make his character somewhat suspect. I suppose that's not true if you are making yourself an expert on their authenticity.

Like the "artifacts" from Calalus, one wonders where they are currently being kept.

Take care,

Joe
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Post by novice »

Joe,

I awoke this morning, bleary eyed, and read your post and now I think things are worse! :D

You mention "no matter what the prison record states as Bilbery's birth date".

I couldn't find any reference to a birth date from the prison record in this thread. What are we talking about? Can you expand on the birth date issue and the confusion about who the "real" Michael Bilbrey is?

Also, I have trouble with acronyms. What does NCAHF stand for?

The only comment I would have on the crosses is that someone said they were fabricated from basalt. At least they are made from a material common to the Superstitions.

Garry
Joe Ribaudo
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More.......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Good morning Garry,

You have been quiet for a long time. Hope all is well.

NCAHF is the National Council Against Health Fraud. You would need to read the Jim Hatt posts on Desert USA (United States of America), :lol: that we posted above, for the rest of the information on Michael Bilbrey.

I put about as much stock in the Bilbrey story as I do in Cyclone Covey's fantasy book. That would be
"ZERO". It would seem that artifacts of a fantastic nature, often have a way of disappearing, much like Late49er's stuff fell into an unnamed "university". Must be some kind of government conspiracy. :wink:

Take care,

Joe
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Post by zentull »

The Prison records state that a Michael Kent Bilbrey was incarcerated with the birth date of 10/30/1960.

All other legal records and documents list only a Michael Kent Bilbrey with a birthdate of 10/30/1950.

Jim Hatt stated Bilbreys birthdate was 1951. I have found no Bilbrey that matches that year in Arizona.

I am mainly hoping that some communication could be made to have the Crosses displayed with the Stone maps at the museum together.
Having Bilbrey at the rendezvous would be nice as well for Roger and others to hear his story first hand.

Other than that, I have no interest in them.
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Joe Ribaudo
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1951 Record......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Wayne,

This is a record of a Michael Kent Bilbrey showing that he was born in 1951:

From: NCAHF News, September/October 1995 Volume 18, Issue #5 we find this:
____________________________________________________________

CANCER QUACK GETS 5 YEARS
On June 20, Michael Kent Bilbrey, 44, of Chandler, AZ was sentenced to 5 years in prison and ordered to pay $39,300 in restitution for selling a quack cure that was nothing more than a concoction of cranberry juice, saline solution and household bleach. Bilbrey pleaded guilty in March to a charge of theft, admitting that he promoted his potion as a cure for cancer and AIDS with no scientific justification.
____________________________________________________________

The numbers in bold are the way to figure out his date of birth. That is not to say that they are any more accurate than the other records, but there does seem to be some confusion.

Other's believe that this guy is the one who found the crosses.

Take care,

Joe
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Post by zentull »

Maybe Roger will chime in with his translation from his tracings of the first cross, but what I get is:

The Treasure Of The Church Of Santa Fe

The Cave Of The ( I am unsure of this word but it actually seems to be "someo" ) Mountain or Mounted ( Depending again on possible missing letters)

This is what is on the first cross, the second has something similar to the symbols of the Stone Maps( I use the term similar quite loosely)

The backs are unfinished and each cross is different in thickness.
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Post by zentull »

I messed up a bit and forgot that the last sentence was a literal translation but would be:

" The Cave Of The Mount or Mountain ???????"
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Re: Michael Bilbrey

Post by novice »

Joe,

I am trying to find the Greg Davis’s story about Bilbrey trying to sell the Latin Crosses.

I believe it was on one of the forums but I spent a couple of hours trying to run it down and came up empty. (From Memory) Greg met with Estee Conatser, Bilbrey and possibly Ed Farr and he was trying to sell them?

If anyone saved those posts or can point me in the right direction it would be you. If you run across them, I would appreciate you adding it to this thread. A photo or anything you can share would be appreciated. I hope it's not lost!

Thanks in advance,

Garry.
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Re: Michael Bilbrey

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

novice wrote:Joe,

I am trying to find the Greg Davis’s story about Bilbrey trying to sell the Latin Crosses.

I believe it was on one of the forums but I spent a couple of hours trying to run it down and came up empty. (From Memory) Greg met with Estee Conatser, Bilbrey and possibly Ed Farr and he was trying to sell them?

If anyone saved those posts or can point me in the right direction it would be you. If you run across them, I would appreciate you adding it to this thread. A photo or anything you can share would be appreciated. I hope it's not lost!

Thanks in advance,

Garry.
Garry,

Sorry, I missed this post. The information you seek came from a taped interview that Tom Kollenborn made.......as I recall. I would imagine I sent you a copy, or possiblly I sent one to Paul. If not, I will make another copy and send it to you. Have to find it first.

Hope all is well,

Joe
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