Military Trail

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
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von_kidd
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Military Trail

Post by von_kidd »

Horse Camp Basin is the area where Brownie Holmes found a 40 acre site of cut mesquite stumps. It is also where the remains of a work camp were found, barrels gone to hoops and staves, new horse shoes, etc. It was also known as the Soldier Camp. One of the oldest trails in the Superstions goes by there, the Old Spanish Trail. Estee Conaster has it starting into the mountains near Miner's Needle, going through the Whiskey Springs area, through La Barge Box, and northward along the east side of the range that is formed by Herman Mountain, Sheep Mountain, Music Mountain, and onward to the Salt River.
Since it went past what was known as the Soldier Camp, could this have been what Jacob Waltz referred to as the Military Trail?

Von Kidd
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NeedleMan
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Post by NeedleMan »

Yes it can.

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Post by NeedleMan »

Forests very near the Mine sites were utilized for the support beams of the ever deepening shafts.

I've seen the same thing in other old mining areas they would cut the trees very near the hidden shafts. I would say the Camp is near the site of teh actual hidden tunnel or shaft.

Define the area your speaking of.

NM
von_kidd
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Military Trail

Post by von_kidd »

Horse Camp Basin is on the east side of Music Mountain, which is to the south of Peter's Mesa. The Hoolie Bacon trail would take you there from the south. Check the Weaver's Needle topo.
I forgot to mention a couple of other clues that suggest that this portion of the Old Spanish Trail is what Jacob Waltz refered to as the military trail.
First, He told Julia and Rhiney that they could ride in a wagon (with him on a cot in the wagon bed) as far as the board house. This was the Quarter Circle U ranch house. Jacob told them that he could point out the trail to take over the mountains to them from there. This is where the Old Spanish Trail entered the Superstitions near Miner's Needle. It goes north past Whiskey Springs and enters La Barge Box, following it to the east and turning north from there along the Hoolie Bacon trail.
Second, Jacob also told Julia and Rhiney that if they came to three red hills they've gone too far. Near the east end of La Barge Box and the point where the trail turns north is one of the two places in the Superstitions where there is found three red hills in a group.

Von Kidd
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djui5
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Re: Military Trail

Post by djui5 »

von_kidd wrote:Near the east end of La Barge Box and the point where the trail turns north is one of the two places in the Superstitions where there is found three red hills in a group.

Von Kidd
Never heard this before. Gotta hike out and see these hills 8O
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von_kidd
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Military Trail

Post by von_kidd »

The three red hills are there, I saw them myself on my last trip into the Superstitions. After you come out of La Barge Box and continue to follow the trail east, they are to the north before you hit the Hoolie Bacon trail.
I've been researching the Lost Dutchman Mine since 1993 and reading everything I could get my hands on about it, both pro and con. There's been too much evidence of pre-anglo mining activity found in the Superstitions for there not to be a mine. I don't mind sharing information because I feel that the odds against finding the Lost Dutchman mine are about the same as the odds against winning the powerball lottery. I get much more enjoyment out of being in the mountains "playing around" at looking for the Lost Dutchman than I ever would by blowing my money on some lottery. I don't seriously expect to ever find the mine, but I sure have a lot of fun being out there looking!

Happy hunting!

Von Kidd
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Ozarker
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Red Hills

Post by Ozarker »

Hello All:

The three red hills located east of the upper La Barge Box are mentioned in the Hiker’s Guide (page 179), but their exact position is not discussed, nor are they shown or annotated on any of the guide’s inset maps.

This group of red hills has been mentioned as a candidate for the landmark shown on the Haywood/Kochera map, which shows the hills in relation to a box canyon.

Tom Kollenborn wrote that the Haywood story was very similar to the Lost Polka Mine story, apparently in regard to certain clues let out by Haywood and Polka, including the rock that formed alternating layers of red and black material and was filled with gold.

Jim Butler, who was active in the mountains with Chuck Aylor and others, was searching for the mine associated with the Polka story as early as the mid 1950s. Bob Ward also partnered with Aylor for awhile in search of the Lost Polka Mine.

JJ Polka, as the story goes, was an Apache Indian who had entered the mountains with a friend to retrieve gold from one of the hidden Peralta mines. He successfully retrieved some of the gold but became spooked, leaving the mountains and vowing never to return. He later drew several maps to the mine for another friend, two versions of which appear in the maps section of this site. Val Paris (Bob Ward) later found the remains of Polka’s camp, and also recovered a small Bull Durham tobacco sack (rotted) filled with eight gold nuggets the size of quarters, apparently dropped by Polka when he fled the mountains. The nuggets later analyzed out to 90 percent pure. Paris (Ward) never found the mine Polka had described, although he apparently found several tunnels and some very old mining tools in a ravine not far from Polka’s camp. Months (years?) later, he searched the ridge above the tunnels and found a shaft surrounded by heavy brush, indicating that it had not been worked in a very long time. The shaft was flooded to within 50 feet of the top, and Ward’s theory was that the tunnels were being dug in order to reach an ore body or to drain the shaft. It is not clear if he was ever successful in draining or exploring the shaft himself.

Other clues to the Lost Polka Mine included a trail of cut yucca (cut by Polka in the 1950s), a flat rock with a saguaro growing on it (Polka’s camp), and a triangle of rocks located near the mine.

La Barge Mountain is the area where some believe the Polka (Haywood) mine is located.

Ozarker
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Post by zentull »

It should be noted that the red hills are sometimes mentioned as red surface spots. I am never sure if we are dealing with ifo that got absorbed into different stories or its all coincidental.

If Greg ever sees Wards stuff that will clear up some of the Polk stuff. I am not sure if it is on Wards maps or elsewhere, but will take a look when I get a chance. Clay would probably know the camp area or where those tunnels were. I believe he took a trip or two with Bob and Bob showed him some of the stuff he discovered in that area.

Nice to see you posting Ozarker. Hoping you are digging up something really cool to share after an extended silence. I spent 8 hours working in the Arizona sun and need something refreshing to get excited about.

102 degrees at 8 PM is ridiculous........someone crank the earths AC down.

Randy,

That was the other route we were going to take on the last trip when we ran out of agua.
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Post by djui5 »

zentull wrote: Randy,

That was the other route we were going to take on the last trip when we ran out of agua.

I say we need to make that trip 8O
Randy Wright
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Mesa, AZ

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Post by zentull »

Actually I believe the cut mesquite area was discovered by Bark and Ely as they were following one of their possible Spanish Trails.

That trail I believe was mentioned in an article by Richard Robinson on Doug Stewarts Bibliography site. It connects the area with what I know as the Sheep trail up Horse Mesa. I don't think its on the current topo maps but used to be on older maps I have.

It seems every possible military trail also could be replaced with a possible Spanish trail in that regard.

I know there was one member who found the hilt of a calvary sword on Bluff Springs mountain which has both a north and south Spanish trail and with that evidence could give one the idea that it was used by the military as well in the early days before being forgotten.

Peter posted pictures and had spoken of monuments along what he thought was a military trail, but I had heard thewhole thing run by as an early Spanish trail as well.

What is odd is that in almost every case these trails that could be interchangable were forgotten and re discovered within a 40 year period.
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
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