There is some additional research that I want to add to the original “Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory” thread. The thread was started on Peter's forum but it is unclear when that venue will be available, therefore I will proceed with reposting the topic here.
The problem is that I did not copy all of the actual posts in that thread before the site went down. I will only have a draft of "my" posts and a few other posts that were saved by other members, so it will not be complete. I will sometimes insert thoughts from posts by other members that I believe are correct.
I apologize for any omissions or errors!
Wish me luck!
Garry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#1) Novice
I know this subject has recently been touched on in the “Location of Julia Thomas Business in 1891” but I wanted to start a new thread that would provide a venue for Alkire Research.
Frank Alkire was a well known Arizona pioneer who died January 26, 1962 at the ripe old age of 96. He wrote several stories about some of his experiences in early Arizona.
The Frank Alkire account of the events surrounding the death of Jacob Waltz has always generated a lot of discussion on the forums. There are three recorded accounts and they all differ.
In all of the accounts, Jacob Waltz lays dying in a storeroom behind the Julia’s Thomas’ business on Washington Street in downtown Phoenix. Frank Alkire comes by and he later records or relates the events of that evening, depending on which source we use.
Recent research by Larry Hannah has shown that Jacob Waltz did not die in downtown Phoenix behind the Julia Thomas business. Contemporary newspaper reports indicated that Jacob had died at the home of Julia Thomas on the corner of Mojave and Jackson Street.
Does the location of Jacob’s death, require that Alkires’ account be tossed aside or can a portion of it be salvaged?
There are three versions of Frank Alkire’s involvement with Jacob Waltz. These accounts have become public within about the last ten years.
1. Dr. Thomas Glover as told in his book “.The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Walt, Part 1: The Golden Dream”, first published in 1998.
2. Helen Corbin’s version in her book “The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz” published in 2002.
3. Matthew Robert’s account that he has shared on the Lost Dutchman Forums in the 2004 and 2006 timeframe.
Provenance:
1. Dr. Glover writes, “The following is based on family letters written by Gideon Roberts, and information gathered at the Arizona Pioneer Reunions by Margaret Roberts. The account is quoted directly and in its entirety from the family archives.”
2. Helen Corbin writes, “Frank and George Alkire, well known grocers, told Bertie Roberts that earlier in the evening…………:”
3. Matthew Robert’s writes, “I knew Frank Alkires’ daughter Alma quite well, she married Phoenix attorney Frank Snell. I read the letters and stories Frank Alkire wrote of his experiences in the Arizona territory on paper in his own handwriting and the Waltz account is basically as reported.”
Matthew also writes, “Frank Alkire rarely mentioned his knowledge of Waltz and his account only came about when at a 1937 Pioneer Reunion in Phoenix he sat down with an old trusted friend of many years (a contributor to the Phoenix newspaper) and wrote down his remembrances with the express wish that the account NOT appear in the Phoenix paper or be made public.”
Provenance Overview:
We have three different sources from three different authors, but all of the stories have Frank Alkire as the “original” source.
Although Dr. Glover and Corbin both share the Pioneer Reunion source, one credits Margaret Roberts while the other credits Sarah Bertie Roberts.
Matthew’s account would have come from his relatives, but in addition there was also a personal sharing of Frank Alkire’s own written words provided by Alma Alkire Snell.
Since the Waltz death location story was apparently fabricated, are there other elements of the story that will pass muster or are they flawed also?
Some Alkire family information and thoughts have already been shared on the forums but hopefully some additional “meat” can be added to the bones of the Jacob Waltz death story and the Alkire family in general.
Garry
I know this subject has recently been touched on in the “Location of Julia Thomas Business in 1891” but I wanted to start a new thread that would provide a venue for Alkire Research.
Frank Alkire was a well known Arizona pioneer who died January 26, 1962 at the ripe old age of 96. He wrote several stories about some of his experiences in early Arizona.
The Frank Alkire account of the events surrounding the death of Jacob Waltz has always generated a lot of discussion on the forums. There are three recorded accounts and they all differ.
In all of the accounts, Jacob Waltz lays dying in a storeroom behind the Julia’s Thomas’ business on Washington Street in downtown Phoenix. Frank Alkire comes by and he later records or relates the events of that evening, depending on which source we use.
Recent research by Larry Hannah has shown that Jacob Waltz did not die in downtown Phoenix behind the Julia Thomas business. Contemporary newspaper reports indicated that Jacob had died at the home of Julia Thomas on the corner of Mojave and Jackson Street.
Does the location of Jacob’s death, require that Alkires’ account be tossed aside or can a portion of it be salvaged?
There are three versions of Frank Alkire’s involvement with Jacob Waltz. These accounts have become public within about the last ten years.
1. Dr. Thomas Glover as told in his book “.The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Walt, Part 1: The Golden Dream”, first published in 1998.
2. Helen Corbin’s version in her book “The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz” published in 2002.
3. Matthew Robert’s account that he has shared on the Lost Dutchman Forums in the 2004 and 2006 timeframe.
Provenance:
1. Dr. Glover writes, “The following is based on family letters written by Gideon Roberts, and information gathered at the Arizona Pioneer Reunions by Margaret Roberts. The account is quoted directly and in its entirety from the family archives.”
2. Helen Corbin writes, “Frank and George Alkire, well known grocers, told Bertie Roberts that earlier in the evening…………:”
3. Matthew Robert’s writes, “I knew Frank Alkires’ daughter Alma quite well, she married Phoenix attorney Frank Snell. I read the letters and stories Frank Alkire wrote of his experiences in the Arizona territory on paper in his own handwriting and the Waltz account is basically as reported.”
Matthew also writes, “Frank Alkire rarely mentioned his knowledge of Waltz and his account only came about when at a 1937 Pioneer Reunion in Phoenix he sat down with an old trusted friend of many years (a contributor to the Phoenix newspaper) and wrote down his remembrances with the express wish that the account NOT appear in the Phoenix paper or be made public.”
Provenance Overview:
We have three different sources from three different authors, but all of the stories have Frank Alkire as the “original” source.
Although Dr. Glover and Corbin both share the Pioneer Reunion source, one credits Margaret Roberts while the other credits Sarah Bertie Roberts.
Matthew’s account would have come from his relatives, but in addition there was also a personal sharing of Frank Alkire’s own written words provided by Alma Alkire Snell.
Since the Waltz death location story was apparently fabricated, are there other elements of the story that will pass muster or are they flawed also?
Some Alkire family information and thoughts have already been shared on the forums but hopefully some additional “meat” can be added to the bones of the Jacob Waltz death story and the Alkire family in general.
Garry
(#2) Roger
Subject: Where Jacob Waltz Died
The below posting is from the other thread on Julia Thomas' store location. I repeat it here to offer a different view that the newspaper articles on Jacob Walt's death do not necessarily mean he "died" at Julia Thomas' residence vs at her store.
Roger
Helen Corbin includes in her book, The Bible, on Pages 138 - 140, a narrative that Rhiney Petrasch had WRITTEN DOWN and TOLD to Bertie Roberts. Here are some details pertaining to Julia's store and where Waltz resided in those final months from Page 139 (parenthesis are added by me) just after Rhiney and Albert Schafer got him back in town from the 1891 flood:
"....When he (Waltz) recovered his senses (at the Doctor's place) we took him over to Julia's house on Jackson Street and put him up in the sun porch off the kitchen (all the sleeping rooms were being used at the time). Old Waltz raised a fit the whole time he was there and Julia moved her bakery business from across the plaza and moved in next to Archer's on the south side of Washington Street. Julia put Waltz up in a little storage room in back of that bakery. All's he had in there was a pallet for a bed and a chair and some shelfs but he quit fittin and fussin all the time and finally seemed satisfied."
Helen also writes the following information of what happened after Waltz died on Page 137 - 138 which came from the Roberts family history:
"Walt's body was taken to Julia's home to be prepared for burial, a common practice in that era. Several friends came by that day to pay their respects only to learn that Jacob Waltz had already been taken to the cemetery and buried."
Some conclusions from this detail:
1. Waltz was at Julia's HOME for awhile after he survived the flood and then taken to the storage room behind her shop. He was later taken to her residence AFTER he died for burial prep. Note the wording in the Phoenix Daily Herald Oct 26, 1891, newspaper articles on Page 141:
"Jacob Waltz, aged 81 years, died at 6 a.m. Sunday, October 25, 1891, and was buried at 10 o'clock this morning, from the residence of Mrs J.E. Thomas......."
Note the word "from" in the news article - it is consistent with him being buried "from" that residence as Rhiney wrote and does not necessarily imply that Waltz was living there when he died.
I think that Waltz having been at Julia's residence at the first of his illiness and being buried "from" her residence has created a lot of the confusion about Waltz living at her home and not the back of her store. Since Rhiney worked at the store then and help care for Waltz, I would give significant credence to his version of happened as he wrote it down.
End
Roger
Subject: Where Jacob Waltz Died
The below posting is from the other thread on Julia Thomas' store location. I repeat it here to offer a different view that the newspaper articles on Jacob Walt's death do not necessarily mean he "died" at Julia Thomas' residence vs at her store.
Roger
Helen Corbin includes in her book, The Bible, on Pages 138 - 140, a narrative that Rhiney Petrasch had WRITTEN DOWN and TOLD to Bertie Roberts. Here are some details pertaining to Julia's store and where Waltz resided in those final months from Page 139 (parenthesis are added by me) just after Rhiney and Albert Schafer got him back in town from the 1891 flood:
"....When he (Waltz) recovered his senses (at the Doctor's place) we took him over to Julia's house on Jackson Street and put him up in the sun porch off the kitchen (all the sleeping rooms were being used at the time). Old Waltz raised a fit the whole time he was there and Julia moved her bakery business from across the plaza and moved in next to Archer's on the south side of Washington Street. Julia put Waltz up in a little storage room in back of that bakery. All's he had in there was a pallet for a bed and a chair and some shelfs but he quit fittin and fussin all the time and finally seemed satisfied."
Helen also writes the following information of what happened after Waltz died on Page 137 - 138 which came from the Roberts family history:
"Walt's body was taken to Julia's home to be prepared for burial, a common practice in that era. Several friends came by that day to pay their respects only to learn that Jacob Waltz had already been taken to the cemetery and buried."
Some conclusions from this detail:
1. Waltz was at Julia's HOME for awhile after he survived the flood and then taken to the storage room behind her shop. He was later taken to her residence AFTER he died for burial prep. Note the wording in the Phoenix Daily Herald Oct 26, 1891, newspaper articles on Page 141:
"Jacob Waltz, aged 81 years, died at 6 a.m. Sunday, October 25, 1891, and was buried at 10 o'clock this morning, from the residence of Mrs J.E. Thomas......."
Note the word "from" in the news article - it is consistent with him being buried "from" that residence as Rhiney wrote and does not necessarily imply that Waltz was living there when he died.
I think that Waltz having been at Julia's residence at the first of his illiness and being buried "from" her residence has created a lot of the confusion about Waltz living at her home and not the back of her store. Since Rhiney worked at the store then and help care for Waltz, I would give significant credence to his version of happened as he wrote it down.
End
Roger
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#3) Ozarker
Subject: None
Roger/All:
Since we’re using Helen Corbin for a reference source concerning the location of Waltz’s death, then we should also look in her first book, The Curse of the Dutchman’s Gold, page 31. Helen reprinted Waltz’s death announcement which appeared in the Arizona Daily Gazette on October 27, 1891:
“Jacob Waltz died Sunday evening at the residence of Mrs. J. E. Thomas and was buried yesterday. Deceased was a native of Germany and was 81 years old.”
(emphasis added)
Pretty straight forward, cut and dried. No interpretation or reading between the lines required.
The flaws in the account attributed to Rhiney have already been addressed in the other thread, so I won’t go into them again here. Anybody can visit the other thread and judge for themselves what kind of weight to give the account. I will say that after reviewing the accounts attributed to Alkire and others noted in Garry’s post above, the accounts involving Alkire appear to suffer from the same type of problems.
Larry
Subject: None
Roger/All:
Since we’re using Helen Corbin for a reference source concerning the location of Waltz’s death, then we should also look in her first book, The Curse of the Dutchman’s Gold, page 31. Helen reprinted Waltz’s death announcement which appeared in the Arizona Daily Gazette on October 27, 1891:
“Jacob Waltz died Sunday evening at the residence of Mrs. J. E. Thomas and was buried yesterday. Deceased was a native of Germany and was 81 years old.”
(emphasis added)
Pretty straight forward, cut and dried. No interpretation or reading between the lines required.
The flaws in the account attributed to Rhiney have already been addressed in the other thread, so I won’t go into them again here. Anybody can visit the other thread and judge for themselves what kind of weight to give the account. I will say that after reviewing the accounts attributed to Alkire and others noted in Garry’s post above, the accounts involving Alkire appear to suffer from the same type of problems.
Larry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#4) Novice
THE SAME AS POST NUMBER 5 EXCEPT FOR SLIGHT EDITTING (Actually a Double Post by Novice)
See the folowing post.
Garry
THE SAME AS POST NUMBER 5 EXCEPT FOR SLIGHT EDITTING (Actually a Double Post by Novice)
See the folowing post.
Garry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#5) Novice
Subject: The Alkire Grocery Store
One of the elements of Frank Alkires’ Jacob Waltz “deathbed” story, involves the Alkire Grocery in Phoenix. The Alkire Gorcery is mentioned in both Helen and Matthew’s accounts. These accounts also identify both George and Frank as being involved with the grocery store. Dr. Glover does not mention this element.
The location of the “Alkire” grocery store was provided in Corbin’s book. Research by Larry Hannah (Posted elsewhere) indicates that the location was operated as a grocery store but NOT by the Alkires. (Farley and Gant operated the store, both before and after Jacob Waltz’s death). Was this simply an error and it was actually located elsewhere?
The time period for the store, in which we are particularly interested, would be that surrounding Waltz’s death on October 25, 1891. We have several sources where we might expect to get a ”hit” if indeed the store did exist.
Probably the most straight forward source would be the 1892 Phoenix Directory. The directory appears to have been published in 1892 but in many cases the information on the individuals and businesses included would have been gathered in the latter portion of 1891. (Around the death of date of Waltz).
There are no Alkires living in Phoenix or Alkire businesses listed in the 1892 Phoenix City Directory. Could their grocery business have simply been missed in the 1892 directory? The Directory Publishers seem to have been very thorough. There were 10 different grocery stores listed in Phoenix and several others in Tempe and Mesa.
A second source where we would expect to find the mention of a grocery store, if it existed, would be in the newspaper. In 1891, the Arizona Republican had several miscellaneous references to Josiah and Frank Alkire but again there were no advertisements and nothing mentioned about a grocery business.
A third source where a business would frequently surface would be among the Maricopa County Recorder’s documents. I have not researched those records but will leave that to Larry. But to date I don’t believe he has been able to come up with anything?
From research into different references, from our time frame, where we would expect to find some reference to a business if one existed. There appears to be nothing. It seems very unlikely there was an Alkire Grocery in Phoenix in 1891 when Waltz died. In fact, I have seen nothing that would even hint that the Alkires were “ever” involved with a grocery in Phoenix?
We do know that Frank’s father, Josiah, had a very successful Wholesale Grocery Business in St. Louis. He was apparently still involved with that business even after moving to Arizona and later to California.
We also find a reference to the Alkire Grocery in “The Taming of the Salt”, written about 1970. “The Alkire Grocery, sold out just before the turn of the century (1900)”. I believe this reference is referring to the St. Louis Grocery Wholesale business. I have not researched when the Alkire family interests were sold but the 1900 date sounds reasonable. Since this would show up in St. Louis, I hope to tackle this in the future.
We might ask ourselves, where would such a story originate if it weren’t factual? I will throw out a possibility. When one story incorporates elements from an unrelated story, it is frequently referred to as a “corruption” of the original. The Alkire Wholesale Grocery in St. Louis becomes a Grocery Store in Phoenix?
All of the different accounts are credited to Frank Alkire, and he has provided us with a shopping list of variations so if one element doesn’t work out we can try another.
Does, Dr. Glover’s account of how Frank came to be in Phoenix on that particular evening fit better?
Garry
Subject: The Alkire Grocery Store
One of the elements of Frank Alkires’ Jacob Waltz “deathbed” story, involves the Alkire Grocery in Phoenix. The Alkire Gorcery is mentioned in both Helen and Matthew’s accounts. These accounts also identify both George and Frank as being involved with the grocery store. Dr. Glover does not mention this element.
The location of the “Alkire” grocery store was provided in Corbin’s book. Research by Larry Hannah (Posted elsewhere) indicates that the location was operated as a grocery store but NOT by the Alkires. (Farley and Gant operated the store, both before and after Jacob Waltz’s death). Was this simply an error and it was actually located elsewhere?
The time period for the store, in which we are particularly interested, would be that surrounding Waltz’s death on October 25, 1891. We have several sources where we might expect to get a ”hit” if indeed the store did exist.
Probably the most straight forward source would be the 1892 Phoenix Directory. The directory appears to have been published in 1892 but in many cases the information on the individuals and businesses included would have been gathered in the latter portion of 1891. (Around the death of date of Waltz).
There are no Alkires living in Phoenix or Alkire businesses listed in the 1892 Phoenix City Directory. Could their grocery business have simply been missed in the 1892 directory? The Directory Publishers seem to have been very thorough. There were 10 different grocery stores listed in Phoenix and several others in Tempe and Mesa.
A second source where we would expect to find the mention of a grocery store, if it existed, would be in the newspaper. In 1891, the Arizona Republican had several miscellaneous references to Josiah and Frank Alkire but again there were no advertisements and nothing mentioned about a grocery business.
A third source where a business would frequently surface would be among the Maricopa County Recorder’s documents. I have not researched those records but will leave that to Larry. But to date I don’t believe he has been able to come up with anything?
From research into different references, from our time frame, where we would expect to find some reference to a business if one existed. There appears to be nothing. It seems very unlikely there was an Alkire Grocery in Phoenix in 1891 when Waltz died. In fact, I have seen nothing that would even hint that the Alkires were “ever” involved with a grocery in Phoenix?
We do know that Frank’s father, Josiah, had a very successful Wholesale Grocery Business in St. Louis. He was apparently still involved with that business even after moving to Arizona and later to California.
We also find a reference to the Alkire Grocery in “The Taming of the Salt”, written about 1970. “The Alkire Grocery, sold out just before the turn of the century (1900)”. I believe this reference is referring to the St. Louis Grocery Wholesale business. I have not researched when the Alkire family interests were sold but the 1900 date sounds reasonable. Since this would show up in St. Louis, I hope to tackle this in the future.
We might ask ourselves, where would such a story originate if it weren’t factual? I will throw out a possibility. When one story incorporates elements from an unrelated story, it is frequently referred to as a “corruption” of the original. The Alkire Wholesale Grocery in St. Louis becomes a Grocery Store in Phoenix?
All of the different accounts are credited to Frank Alkire, and he has provided us with a shopping list of variations so if one element doesn’t work out we can try another.
Does, Dr. Glover’s account of how Frank came to be in Phoenix on that particular evening fit better?
Garry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#6) Paul
MISSING POST BY PAUL SHIMEK (Could the Alkires have been employed at the Gant - Farley Grocery Store?)
(#7) Novice
MISSING POST, RESPONSE TO PAUL
MISSING POST BY PAUL SHIMEK (Could the Alkires have been employed at the Gant - Farley Grocery Store?)
(#7) Novice
MISSING POST, RESPONSE TO PAUL
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
b](#11?)[/b] Novice
(Added for Clarity) I believe this response was a reply to some intervening posts by Roger and Larry in which they were revisiting the story of the downtown death of Jacob Waltz.
Just a thought. We again return Waltz back downtown to Julia’s store to die and then point out the outrageousness of the various claims. Whether there was a fireplace in a nonexistent storeroom, where the doctor was located with respect to Julia’s store, etc. seem to be moot points?
For me, once I understood that the Waltz death story was being built around the incorrect location and that Julia’s business was elsewhere, it certainly raised flags about the rest of the stories. Through the County Recorder’s records and the Sanborn Maps, it became clear, at least to me, that there were no structures or locations, associated with Julia, for Waltz to live in his final days.
For anyone who has done their homework on the records and maps, yet still hold that Waltz probably died behind Julia’s Ice Cream shop, they will not be convinced otherwise by “why” questions.
Sadly, I believe the downtown story of Waltz’s death will outlive all of us!
Garry
(Added for Clarity) I believe this response was a reply to some intervening posts by Roger and Larry in which they were revisiting the story of the downtown death of Jacob Waltz.
Just a thought. We again return Waltz back downtown to Julia’s store to die and then point out the outrageousness of the various claims. Whether there was a fireplace in a nonexistent storeroom, where the doctor was located with respect to Julia’s store, etc. seem to be moot points?
For me, once I understood that the Waltz death story was being built around the incorrect location and that Julia’s business was elsewhere, it certainly raised flags about the rest of the stories. Through the County Recorder’s records and the Sanborn Maps, it became clear, at least to me, that there were no structures or locations, associated with Julia, for Waltz to live in his final days.
For anyone who has done their homework on the records and maps, yet still hold that Waltz probably died behind Julia’s Ice Cream shop, they will not be convinced otherwise by “why” questions.
Sadly, I believe the downtown story of Waltz’s death will outlive all of us!
Garry
Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
Joe Ribaudo
Subject: None
Garry,
"I don’t believe we have determined where the family resided while they were in Phoenix..."
As you probably already know, the 1900 Census shows the family living here: [Phoenix City (North of Washington, East of Center St.), Maricopa, Arizona Territory]
My guess is that there was no numbered address at that location, thus the meets and bounds.....so to speak.
Take care,
Joe
Subject: None
Garry,
"I don’t believe we have determined where the family resided while they were in Phoenix..."
As you probably already know, the 1900 Census shows the family living here: [Phoenix City (North of Washington, East of Center St.), Maricopa, Arizona Territory]
My guess is that there was no numbered address at that location, thus the meets and bounds.....so to speak.
Take care,
Joe
Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#13) Novice
Subject: Alkire Residence
Joe,
What I am really looking for is where the family lived in the 1888-1889 time frame. After arriving from St. Louis and before leaving for California.
If their primary home was in Phoenix as the St. Louis Directory indicates, where were they living? Did they own a home? If they did, I suspect Larry will come up with it but they might not have owned a residence, knowing that their stay in Phoenix was a temporary situation.
Early in that period, Frank was also unmarried and may have been living with his parents and brother? He did give his residence as Phoenix in 1888 in the Register. The New River ranch was also being developed in this time frame.
It really doesn't impact the story but it would just be nice to fill in the blanks in the timeline.
Garry
Subject: Alkire Residence
Joe,
What I am really looking for is where the family lived in the 1888-1889 time frame. After arriving from St. Louis and before leaving for California.
If their primary home was in Phoenix as the St. Louis Directory indicates, where were they living? Did they own a home? If they did, I suspect Larry will come up with it but they might not have owned a residence, knowing that their stay in Phoenix was a temporary situation.
Early in that period, Frank was also unmarried and may have been living with his parents and brother? He did give his residence as Phoenix in 1888 in the Register. The New River ranch was also being developed in this time frame.
It really doesn't impact the story but it would just be nice to fill in the blanks in the timeline.
Garry
Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#14) Joe Ribaudo
Subject: A Little History......
Garry,
We know that Frank and Asenath were married in San Diego California on April 10, 1889. He did not take her to the Triangle Bar, but instead moved to Phoenix. Frank was in partnership at that time, "in the largest hardware store in town". For a short time they lived in one of the three hotels in town, I believe it was the Mills, before purchasing a "new, five-room, brick house located on "west Jefferson St., near the present Second Ave."
I don't believe the hardware store was a partnership with his brother because each time he mentions it, he simply calls the man "his partner".
While he had been in California, his partner overstocked the store......on credit, and started drinking. Frank "was glad to take a loss and step out." I believe it was still 1889.
Frank had purchased the Triangle Bar when he left the Tonto Basin. It was being run by a "manager" and was not doing well. The couple decided to move to the ranch and run it themselves. They ran the ranch until, I believe, the spring of 1893. The great drought of 1892-1898 was what drove them out of ranching. Stock that had originally cost them $50. a head, were sold in Phoenix for $9.00 a head.
I used a number of sources here, but the main source is "The Little Lady Of The Triangle Bar Ranch". Nowhere does Frank mention owning or working a store in Phoenix in 1891. He does make mistakes in his writing, as he did most of it many years after the fact. (Around 1940?)
The Alkire Grocery store in St. Louis, was sold just before 1900.
I will add more to this next week.
Take care,
Joe
Subject: A Little History......
Garry,
We know that Frank and Asenath were married in San Diego California on April 10, 1889. He did not take her to the Triangle Bar, but instead moved to Phoenix. Frank was in partnership at that time, "in the largest hardware store in town". For a short time they lived in one of the three hotels in town, I believe it was the Mills, before purchasing a "new, five-room, brick house located on "west Jefferson St., near the present Second Ave."
I don't believe the hardware store was a partnership with his brother because each time he mentions it, he simply calls the man "his partner".
While he had been in California, his partner overstocked the store......on credit, and started drinking. Frank "was glad to take a loss and step out." I believe it was still 1889.
Frank had purchased the Triangle Bar when he left the Tonto Basin. It was being run by a "manager" and was not doing well. The couple decided to move to the ranch and run it themselves. They ran the ranch until, I believe, the spring of 1893. The great drought of 1892-1898 was what drove them out of ranching. Stock that had originally cost them $50. a head, were sold in Phoenix for $9.00 a head.
I used a number of sources here, but the main source is "The Little Lady Of The Triangle Bar Ranch". Nowhere does Frank mention owning or working a store in Phoenix in 1891. He does make mistakes in his writing, as he did most of it many years after the fact. (Around 1940?)
The Alkire Grocery store in St. Louis, was sold just before 1900.
I will add more to this next week.
Take care,
Joe
Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#15) Novice
Subject: Triangle Bar and Alkire Timeline
Joe,
Great Stuff. It certainly helps to bring the picture into focus and provides additional leads.
I have a couple of areas that I’m not clear on.
1. Where did Josiah, Lydia and George Alkire live in Phoenix? Did they ever make their home there for a permanent period. The St. Louis Directory (1888-1889) indicates they did but was it just all part of a transition to California? They obviously had business dealings in Phoenix both before and after that period.
2. The other area is the New River Ranch. At what date did Frank move from Phoenix to New River to take over day to day operations? (That timeframe window seems to be closing and I suspect it will become clearer as we proceed.)
As far as who Frank’s partner in the Hardware Business was, Larry covered that previously (JB Long) I know he probably has some additional detail on that relationship.
Keep the information coming. I have ordered a copy of the Triangle Bar manuscript from the Arizona Historical in Tucson so I will be able to look over your shoulder.
Garry
Subject: Triangle Bar and Alkire Timeline
Joe,
Great Stuff. It certainly helps to bring the picture into focus and provides additional leads.
I have a couple of areas that I’m not clear on.
1. Where did Josiah, Lydia and George Alkire live in Phoenix? Did they ever make their home there for a permanent period. The St. Louis Directory (1888-1889) indicates they did but was it just all part of a transition to California? They obviously had business dealings in Phoenix both before and after that period.
2. The other area is the New River Ranch. At what date did Frank move from Phoenix to New River to take over day to day operations? (That timeframe window seems to be closing and I suspect it will become clearer as we proceed.)
As far as who Frank’s partner in the Hardware Business was, Larry covered that previously (JB Long) I know he probably has some additional detail on that relationship.
Keep the information coming. I have ordered a copy of the Triangle Bar manuscript from the Arizona Historical in Tucson so I will be able to look over your shoulder.
Garry
Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#16) Joe Ribaudo
Subject: Timeframe.....
Garry,
[The other area is the New River Ranch. At what date did Frank move from Phoenix to New River to take over day to day operations? (That timeframe window seems to be closing and I suspect it will become clearer as we proceed.)]
There is little doubt, for me, that the Alkires moved to New River in 1889. They were married April 10 of that year, took the train to Phoenix after the wedding, and Frank states: "When I returned, it was quite a job to find out just where we stood. It took three moths or more to get to the bottom of the mess, and, when I did, I was glad to take a loss and step out."
Prior to that period, frank wrote: "We had purchased the ranch three years or more before, and I had lived and worked there for two years, then had gone to town for nearly a year, to be followed up by my accident and then marriage."
I should have made you a copy of "The Little Lady...". Sorry, I am a little slow on the upbeat these days. I have plenty of other pertinent Alkire documents which I will copy and send to the three of you after next week.
Take care,
Joe
Subject: Timeframe.....
Garry,
[The other area is the New River Ranch. At what date did Frank move from Phoenix to New River to take over day to day operations? (That timeframe window seems to be closing and I suspect it will become clearer as we proceed.)]
There is little doubt, for me, that the Alkires moved to New River in 1889. They were married April 10 of that year, took the train to Phoenix after the wedding, and Frank states: "When I returned, it was quite a job to find out just where we stood. It took three moths or more to get to the bottom of the mess, and, when I did, I was glad to take a loss and step out."
Prior to that period, frank wrote: "We had purchased the ranch three years or more before, and I had lived and worked there for two years, then had gone to town for nearly a year, to be followed up by my accident and then marriage."
I should have made you a copy of "The Little Lady...". Sorry, I am a little slow on the upbeat these days. I have plenty of other pertinent Alkire documents which I will copy and send to the three of you after next week.
Take care,
Joe
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#17) Ozarker
Subject: Movements
Hello All:
Most (but not all) of the county records identified where the parties to the agreements resided. It also appears a distinction was made whether a person lived in Phoenix or simply “Maricopa County”.
From the records I’ve been able to find for Josiah Alkire , we get a good idea of his movements:
15 February 1887 to 1 February 1888 - St Louis (6 records)
23 March 1888 to 20 July 1888 - Maricopa County (3 records)
30 July 1888 to 1 April 1891 - St Louis (6 records)
1 April 1892 - Los Angeles Co, CA (1 record)
3 April 1893 - February 1895 - Pomona, CA (multiple records until Josiah’s death)
During the period 23 March 1888 to 20 July 1888, while Josiah was recorded as a resident of Maricopa County, I’ve only been able to find records for one property that he actually owned. This property was acquired from Jerry and Margarette Millay in two different conveyances, and formed the west half of Section 21 Township 2 North Range 2 East. This property would have consisted of 320 acres located approximately seven miles northwest of Phoenix.
The earliest record I’ve found for Frank Alkire was the February 1887 acquisition of Hackberry Spring, which was owned and operated as a stock ranch by George and Katie Hall and located 9 miles east or northeast of the New River ranch (which was itself located about 40 miles north of Phoenix). Frank also bought the Hall’s cattle herd in a separate conveyance. In both conveyances, the Halls were noted as residents of Phoenix, while Frank was noted as a resident of Maricopa County.
We then have Frank registering to vote, and identified as a resident of Phoenix, on 18 April 1888. I have been unable to find any records that would show where Frank was residing in Phoenix, or when he might have moved there. I’ve also been unable to find the conveyance of the property noted by Joe in his previous post (on Jefferson near Second Avenue), but will keep looking.
I don't know what to make of the 1889 St Louis directory listing for Josiah, but it may indicate that he was still in a period of transition and wrapping up his affairs in Missouri before the final push to the coast.
Larry
Subject: Movements
Hello All:
Most (but not all) of the county records identified where the parties to the agreements resided. It also appears a distinction was made whether a person lived in Phoenix or simply “Maricopa County”.
From the records I’ve been able to find for Josiah Alkire , we get a good idea of his movements:
15 February 1887 to 1 February 1888 - St Louis (6 records)
23 March 1888 to 20 July 1888 - Maricopa County (3 records)
30 July 1888 to 1 April 1891 - St Louis (6 records)
1 April 1892 - Los Angeles Co, CA (1 record)
3 April 1893 - February 1895 - Pomona, CA (multiple records until Josiah’s death)
During the period 23 March 1888 to 20 July 1888, while Josiah was recorded as a resident of Maricopa County, I’ve only been able to find records for one property that he actually owned. This property was acquired from Jerry and Margarette Millay in two different conveyances, and formed the west half of Section 21 Township 2 North Range 2 East. This property would have consisted of 320 acres located approximately seven miles northwest of Phoenix.
The earliest record I’ve found for Frank Alkire was the February 1887 acquisition of Hackberry Spring, which was owned and operated as a stock ranch by George and Katie Hall and located 9 miles east or northeast of the New River ranch (which was itself located about 40 miles north of Phoenix). Frank also bought the Hall’s cattle herd in a separate conveyance. In both conveyances, the Halls were noted as residents of Phoenix, while Frank was noted as a resident of Maricopa County.
We then have Frank registering to vote, and identified as a resident of Phoenix, on 18 April 1888. I have been unable to find any records that would show where Frank was residing in Phoenix, or when he might have moved there. I’ve also been unable to find the conveyance of the property noted by Joe in his previous post (on Jefferson near Second Avenue), but will keep looking.
I don't know what to make of the 1889 St Louis directory listing for Josiah, but it may indicate that he was still in a period of transition and wrapping up his affairs in Missouri before the final push to the coast.
Larry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(# Eighteen) Novice
(Added) For some reason the Joe cool Icon keeps appearing when I insert the number 8.
Subject: Frank Alkire Accident
Joe,
Did Frank expand on the nature and seriousness of the injury referred to? As I understand, it would not have occurred while he was working on the ranch but after his move to Phoenix nearly a year later (1888/89)?
Garry
(Added) For some reason the Joe cool Icon keeps appearing when I insert the number 8.
Subject: Frank Alkire Accident
Joe,
Did Frank expand on the nature and seriousness of the injury referred to? As I understand, it would not have occurred while he was working on the ranch but after his move to Phoenix nearly a year later (1888/89)?
Garry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#19) Ozarker
Subject: Long & Alkire Hardware
Hello All:
John B Long and Frank Alkire were partners in the Long and Alkire Hardware Company from about April 1888 to February 1890.
Long was already established in the hardware business before partnering with Frank, and operated his business on the south side of Washington Street between Center and Cortez (First Avenue), just east of the north-south alley known as Wall Street. This location is shown as 30 West Washington on the January 1889 Sanborn map. Long appears in the 1888 Phoenix business directory in the hardware business, but apparently the directory was compiled before Frank partnered with Long, as he is not listed.
Court documents filed in 1889 show that Long and Alkire Hardware was the successor to JB Long Hardware, although they do not specify a date the company was formed. The records do indicate they were in business together by April 1888 and selling supplies to the Phoenix Mining Company, and that they were continuing to operate at the same location on West Washington. Long and Alkire were recorded as hardware merchants, and more specifically, they were “dealers in hardware, agricultural implements, cutlery, tinware, paints, oils, glass, and ammunition”.
The partnership between Long and Alkire appears to have ended shortly after February 1890. JB Long took on a new partner, George F Spangenburg, but they were short-lived and ended up in receivership by December 1890. Frank Alkire was one of their creditors in the amount of $1000. The store where Long & Alkire was located was converted into storage space, and would later become the site of the Phoenix National Bank when they were incorporated in 1892.
In March 1890, after ending their partnership, JB and Margaret Long mortgaged their property in the Murphy Addition to Frank Alkire to secure 4 promissory notes to Frank totaling $2000. Elizabeth Sauer, who also owned property in the Murphy Addition and who was a boarder of the Longs, also mortgaged her property to Frank to secure the Long’s notes. Both the Longs and Sauer had already mortgaged their separate properties just days before in what appears to be an attempt to raise money. Frank was aware of these pre-existing mortgages, as they were documented in the later mortgage documents signed by him. Both of the pre-existing mortgages were forced into foreclosure, and Frank was named as a co-defendant in the actions. Long’s property was sold by the sheriff at public auction in order to satisfy the debt of the pre-existing mortgage, and it is not clear whether Frank ever recovered his money. It appears that Sauer was able to keep her property. Long eventually moved to Prescott, where he died in 1929.
Based on a September 1891 newspaper ad, it appears that the former Long and Alkire business was eventually acquired by Ezra Thayer, although it is not clear exactly when that occurred. Official records related to the acquisition have not been found.
Since the Long and Alkire partnership seems to have been formed in or before April 1888, it’s probable that Josiah Alkire played a part in getting Frank established in business. Since Frank also registered to vote in April 1888, indicating he was a resident of Phoenix, it’s possible that he simply resided at the hardware store, which was a common occurrence for shop and business owners in those days. The other possibility is that he resided with the family as surmised by Garry, although I’m still not clear on where that might have been. It also doesn’t account for what was going on “back at the ranch”.
Larry
Subject: Long & Alkire Hardware
Hello All:
John B Long and Frank Alkire were partners in the Long and Alkire Hardware Company from about April 1888 to February 1890.
Long was already established in the hardware business before partnering with Frank, and operated his business on the south side of Washington Street between Center and Cortez (First Avenue), just east of the north-south alley known as Wall Street. This location is shown as 30 West Washington on the January 1889 Sanborn map. Long appears in the 1888 Phoenix business directory in the hardware business, but apparently the directory was compiled before Frank partnered with Long, as he is not listed.
Court documents filed in 1889 show that Long and Alkire Hardware was the successor to JB Long Hardware, although they do not specify a date the company was formed. The records do indicate they were in business together by April 1888 and selling supplies to the Phoenix Mining Company, and that they were continuing to operate at the same location on West Washington. Long and Alkire were recorded as hardware merchants, and more specifically, they were “dealers in hardware, agricultural implements, cutlery, tinware, paints, oils, glass, and ammunition”.
The partnership between Long and Alkire appears to have ended shortly after February 1890. JB Long took on a new partner, George F Spangenburg, but they were short-lived and ended up in receivership by December 1890. Frank Alkire was one of their creditors in the amount of $1000. The store where Long & Alkire was located was converted into storage space, and would later become the site of the Phoenix National Bank when they were incorporated in 1892.
In March 1890, after ending their partnership, JB and Margaret Long mortgaged their property in the Murphy Addition to Frank Alkire to secure 4 promissory notes to Frank totaling $2000. Elizabeth Sauer, who also owned property in the Murphy Addition and who was a boarder of the Longs, also mortgaged her property to Frank to secure the Long’s notes. Both the Longs and Sauer had already mortgaged their separate properties just days before in what appears to be an attempt to raise money. Frank was aware of these pre-existing mortgages, as they were documented in the later mortgage documents signed by him. Both of the pre-existing mortgages were forced into foreclosure, and Frank was named as a co-defendant in the actions. Long’s property was sold by the sheriff at public auction in order to satisfy the debt of the pre-existing mortgage, and it is not clear whether Frank ever recovered his money. It appears that Sauer was able to keep her property. Long eventually moved to Prescott, where he died in 1929.
Based on a September 1891 newspaper ad, it appears that the former Long and Alkire business was eventually acquired by Ezra Thayer, although it is not clear exactly when that occurred. Official records related to the acquisition have not been found.
Since the Long and Alkire partnership seems to have been formed in or before April 1888, it’s probable that Josiah Alkire played a part in getting Frank established in business. Since Frank also registered to vote in April 1888, indicating he was a resident of Phoenix, it’s possible that he simply resided at the hardware store, which was a common occurrence for shop and business owners in those days. The other possibility is that he resided with the family as surmised by Garry, although I’m still not clear on where that might have been. It also doesn’t account for what was going on “back at the ranch”.
Larry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#20) Joe Ribaudo
Subject: 1889 or 1890?
Larry,
"The partnership between Long and Alkire appears to have ended shortly after February 1890."
From my reading of "The Little Lady....", it seems likely that Alkire ended the partnership in 1889. It's also very possible that it "officially" ended in early 1890, a you have written.
The Alkire's could very well have already been at the Triangle Bar Ranch when the legal ending of the partnership came about. It doesn't really change anything if they moved to the ranch in 1889 or 1890. I have that information.......somewhere, I believe.
We are getting close to the truth about the story that has been attached to the circumstances surrounding the death of Jacob Waltz. I completely trust the people who have passed it along to us, it's the original source I am suspicious of. I assume that would be Charles White.
"When Alkires got inside he remembered Thomas and Schaffer doing some kind of ritual and chant that involved throwing things that caused colored smoke to come out of the fireplace."
They had a fireplace in the storeroom???? Exactly when did Schaffer arrive, to that degree, in Julia's life? Why did Julia run off for a doctor, leaving Holmes and Roberts alone with Waltz? Had they paid her the two bits she was charging to see the dying man? How many paying customers would she miss by leaving, instead of sending Holmes? After all, he apparently had nothing to do that morning.
I believe that whole story was made up after Waltz's death. Should I find anything by Frank Alkire that indicates he was there, or even knew who Waltz was, I might change my mind. That information should be somewhere in the man's writings.
Great bit of research. Thanks for sharing it.
Take care,
Joe
Subject: 1889 or 1890?
Larry,
"The partnership between Long and Alkire appears to have ended shortly after February 1890."
From my reading of "The Little Lady....", it seems likely that Alkire ended the partnership in 1889. It's also very possible that it "officially" ended in early 1890, a you have written.
The Alkire's could very well have already been at the Triangle Bar Ranch when the legal ending of the partnership came about. It doesn't really change anything if they moved to the ranch in 1889 or 1890. I have that information.......somewhere, I believe.
We are getting close to the truth about the story that has been attached to the circumstances surrounding the death of Jacob Waltz. I completely trust the people who have passed it along to us, it's the original source I am suspicious of. I assume that would be Charles White.
"When Alkires got inside he remembered Thomas and Schaffer doing some kind of ritual and chant that involved throwing things that caused colored smoke to come out of the fireplace."
They had a fireplace in the storeroom???? Exactly when did Schaffer arrive, to that degree, in Julia's life? Why did Julia run off for a doctor, leaving Holmes and Roberts alone with Waltz? Had they paid her the two bits she was charging to see the dying man? How many paying customers would she miss by leaving, instead of sending Holmes? After all, he apparently had nothing to do that morning.
I believe that whole story was made up after Waltz's death. Should I find anything by Frank Alkire that indicates he was there, or even knew who Waltz was, I might change my mind. That information should be somewhere in the man's writings.
Great bit of research. Thanks for sharing it.
Take care,
Joe
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#21) Ozarker
Subject: Long & Alkire
Hello Joe:
I agree that the Long & Alkire partnership could have ended earlier. The February 1890 record was of a court proceeding where Frank and John collected on a past due debt. It’s possible that they were no longer a functioning business themselves, but merely represented as Long & Alkire Hardware at the hearing for legal reasons. I am confident the partnership ended no later than February 1890.
You asked some great questions, a couple of which I’ll give my take on in the Julia Thomas Business Location thread.
Larry
Subject: Long & Alkire
Hello Joe:
I agree that the Long & Alkire partnership could have ended earlier. The February 1890 record was of a court proceeding where Frank and John collected on a past due debt. It’s possible that they were no longer a functioning business themselves, but merely represented as Long & Alkire Hardware at the hearing for legal reasons. I am confident the partnership ended no later than February 1890.
You asked some great questions, a couple of which I’ll give my take on in the Julia Thomas Business Location thread.
Larry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#22) Roger
Subject: Frank Alkire History
TOPIC 1: Frank Alkire donated a number of his personal records to the Arizona Historical Society, Southern Arizona Division - Tucson. There may well be some records in this 3 linear feet of records that would validate/invalidate what is known of Alkire's whereabouts and businesses. If someone gets down that way, might be worth an afternoon's investigation. Here's the reference info and web site:
http://cip.lib.az.us/index.cfm?event...Search&alpha=S
Collection held at Arizona Historical Society. Southern Arizona Division. Library and Archives
Creator: Alkire, Frank Tomlin
Title: Personal and business papers.
Date: 1886-1912.
Call Num: MS 12
Extent Description: 3 linear feet.
Description:
Manuscripts, personal and business correspondence, Arizona National Guard records, business records and scrapbooks of clippings relating to Alkire's interest in Arizona history, his banking, dry goods, and cattle ranching businesses, and his involvement with the Arizona National Guard and the Salt River Valley Water Users Association.
TOPIC 2: A fairly good history of the Alkire family is given at this website:
http://www.alkire.org/gen/stories/frank.html
Some rough timelines that can be had from this history are:
1885 Frank Alkire arrives in Arizona
1888 Frank returns to California
4/9/1889 Frank marries Asenath Phelps in California and then shortly thereafter returns to Arizona
This would inicate that Frank was not in Arizona for roughly a year minimun of the period mid-1888 to mid-1889. There is also some details on Frank's ranching and businesses in the writeup.
Hope this is of some help.
Roger
Subject: Frank Alkire History
TOPIC 1: Frank Alkire donated a number of his personal records to the Arizona Historical Society, Southern Arizona Division - Tucson. There may well be some records in this 3 linear feet of records that would validate/invalidate what is known of Alkire's whereabouts and businesses. If someone gets down that way, might be worth an afternoon's investigation. Here's the reference info and web site:
http://cip.lib.az.us/index.cfm?event...Search&alpha=S
Collection held at Arizona Historical Society. Southern Arizona Division. Library and Archives
Creator: Alkire, Frank Tomlin
Title: Personal and business papers.
Date: 1886-1912.
Call Num: MS 12
Extent Description: 3 linear feet.
Description:
Manuscripts, personal and business correspondence, Arizona National Guard records, business records and scrapbooks of clippings relating to Alkire's interest in Arizona history, his banking, dry goods, and cattle ranching businesses, and his involvement with the Arizona National Guard and the Salt River Valley Water Users Association.
TOPIC 2: A fairly good history of the Alkire family is given at this website:
http://www.alkire.org/gen/stories/frank.html
Some rough timelines that can be had from this history are:
1885 Frank Alkire arrives in Arizona
1888 Frank returns to California
4/9/1889 Frank marries Asenath Phelps in California and then shortly thereafter returns to Arizona
This would inicate that Frank was not in Arizona for roughly a year minimun of the period mid-1888 to mid-1889. There is also some details on Frank's ranching and businesses in the writeup.
Hope this is of some help.
Roger
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#23) Joe Ribaudo
Subject: Good Information......
Roger,
That's some excellent information.
I have all of the Alkire documents you mention, and will go through them this coming week. We have family visiting this week, so my time will be limited. I will let everyone know if there are any momentous revelations.
Take care,
Joe
Subject: Good Information......
Roger,
That's some excellent information.
I have all of the Alkire documents you mention, and will go through them this coming week. We have family visiting this week, so my time will be limited. I will let everyone know if there are any momentous revelations.
Take care,
Joe
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#24) Novice
Subject: Josiah Alkire, Banker?
Another variation of the circumstances surrounding Frank Alkire being in Phoenix during Waltz’s demise comes from Dr. Glover’s book which was taken verbatim from the notes of Margaret Roberts who obtained the story from Frank Alkire.
Instead of Frank being involved with an Alkire Grocery Store, in this instance he is at a bank in Phoenix where his father Josiah was working. The story relates that Josiah was the president of the bank in Phoenix.
Much has already been shared on this thread regarding the background and residence of Josiah Alkire in the 1891 window.
The question in this instance becomes; Was Josiah Alkire the president of a Phoenix bank or, for that matter, associated with a Phoenix bank in any capacity when Jacob Waltz died?
We again return to the 1892 Phoenix City Directory and from The Historical and Descriptive Section we find that “There are six banks in Phoenix, two of them being National Banks.”
In the business advertising section we find 5 establishments listed under banks;
The Hartford Banking Company (Inc 1887) (L. W. Blinn – President)
The National Bank of Arizona (Inc 1887) (Michael Kales - President)
The Valley Bank (Inc 1883) (Andrew Crawford - President)
The Western Investment Banking Company (Inc 1890) (D. A. Reed – President)
The Maricopa Loan and Trust Company (Inc 1888) (Selden Connor – President)
We find a sixth listing in the late addition section of the Directory.
The Phoenix National Bank (Inc 1892) (James Fleming - President)
All of these financial institutions list the officers and directors and Josiah Alkire does not appear.
Larry dug a little deeper and came up with the incorporation document for The Maricopa Loan and Trust Company. One of the original investors and directors at the time of incorporation (1888) was Josiah Alkire. It was unclear how long Josiah remained active with the corporation.
In the 1892 Directory there was seemingly a more extensive listing of the employees, of The Maricopa Loan and Trust Company than shown for the other banks. They listed the President, 1st Vice President, General Manager and Cashier, 2nd Vice President, 3rd Vice President and Assistant Cashier along with 13 Directors. In this instance there was no Josiah Alkire noted.
Although Josiah may have still been a stockholder, he was certainly not involved with the normal day to day operations of Maricopa Loan and Trust.
In what kind of Phoenix business operations “was” Josiah involved in the 1891 timeframe?
From the Arizona Republican, April 3, 1891
“J. Alkire, father of Frank Alkire of this city, arrived on last night's stage. Mr. Alkire is, along with his son, largely interested in cattle and real estate in this county.”
From the Arizona Republican, April 10, 1891
Josiah Alkire returned to his home in Pomona, California yesterday.
Josiah Alkire was still conducting business in Phoenix, from time to time, but his home was clearly in Pomona California. The newspaper description of his business activities as being, “interested in cattle and real estate in this county” seems to be borne out in the Maricopa Recorder’s records.
The documents simply don’t support the idea that Josiah was working in a Phoenix bank.
When Jacob Waltz died, (Oct 1891) Frank Alkire had a wife, 9 month old son and was living on the New River Ranch, forty miles North of Phoenix. Josiah Alkire was 72 years old, semi retired and living with Lydia, and most likely his 21 year old son George, in Pomona, California.
We cannot completely rule out the possibility that Frank Alkire happened to be in Phoenix on that fateful evening but it was surely not under the circumstances offered in the various accounts.
The Triangle Bar manuscript has offered a tantalizing story of Frank along with his wife and baby boy traveling to Mexico to buy horses. I have not yet read the story in detail but it sounds like it could be near the timeframe in which we are interested.
Roger, thanks for the heads up on the 3 linear feet of documents from the Frank Alkire collection in Tucson! Someone might get lucky and be able to narrow the window of Frank’s possible activities in October of 1891 yet further.
Garry
Subject: Josiah Alkire, Banker?
Another variation of the circumstances surrounding Frank Alkire being in Phoenix during Waltz’s demise comes from Dr. Glover’s book which was taken verbatim from the notes of Margaret Roberts who obtained the story from Frank Alkire.
Instead of Frank being involved with an Alkire Grocery Store, in this instance he is at a bank in Phoenix where his father Josiah was working. The story relates that Josiah was the president of the bank in Phoenix.
Much has already been shared on this thread regarding the background and residence of Josiah Alkire in the 1891 window.
The question in this instance becomes; Was Josiah Alkire the president of a Phoenix bank or, for that matter, associated with a Phoenix bank in any capacity when Jacob Waltz died?
We again return to the 1892 Phoenix City Directory and from The Historical and Descriptive Section we find that “There are six banks in Phoenix, two of them being National Banks.”
In the business advertising section we find 5 establishments listed under banks;
The Hartford Banking Company (Inc 1887) (L. W. Blinn – President)
The National Bank of Arizona (Inc 1887) (Michael Kales - President)
The Valley Bank (Inc 1883) (Andrew Crawford - President)
The Western Investment Banking Company (Inc 1890) (D. A. Reed – President)
The Maricopa Loan and Trust Company (Inc 1888) (Selden Connor – President)
We find a sixth listing in the late addition section of the Directory.
The Phoenix National Bank (Inc 1892) (James Fleming - President)
All of these financial institutions list the officers and directors and Josiah Alkire does not appear.
Larry dug a little deeper and came up with the incorporation document for The Maricopa Loan and Trust Company. One of the original investors and directors at the time of incorporation (1888) was Josiah Alkire. It was unclear how long Josiah remained active with the corporation.
In the 1892 Directory there was seemingly a more extensive listing of the employees, of The Maricopa Loan and Trust Company than shown for the other banks. They listed the President, 1st Vice President, General Manager and Cashier, 2nd Vice President, 3rd Vice President and Assistant Cashier along with 13 Directors. In this instance there was no Josiah Alkire noted.
Although Josiah may have still been a stockholder, he was certainly not involved with the normal day to day operations of Maricopa Loan and Trust.
In what kind of Phoenix business operations “was” Josiah involved in the 1891 timeframe?
From the Arizona Republican, April 3, 1891
“J. Alkire, father of Frank Alkire of this city, arrived on last night's stage. Mr. Alkire is, along with his son, largely interested in cattle and real estate in this county.”
From the Arizona Republican, April 10, 1891
Josiah Alkire returned to his home in Pomona, California yesterday.
Josiah Alkire was still conducting business in Phoenix, from time to time, but his home was clearly in Pomona California. The newspaper description of his business activities as being, “interested in cattle and real estate in this county” seems to be borne out in the Maricopa Recorder’s records.
The documents simply don’t support the idea that Josiah was working in a Phoenix bank.
When Jacob Waltz died, (Oct 1891) Frank Alkire had a wife, 9 month old son and was living on the New River Ranch, forty miles North of Phoenix. Josiah Alkire was 72 years old, semi retired and living with Lydia, and most likely his 21 year old son George, in Pomona, California.
We cannot completely rule out the possibility that Frank Alkire happened to be in Phoenix on that fateful evening but it was surely not under the circumstances offered in the various accounts.
The Triangle Bar manuscript has offered a tantalizing story of Frank along with his wife and baby boy traveling to Mexico to buy horses. I have not yet read the story in detail but it sounds like it could be near the timeframe in which we are interested.
Roger, thanks for the heads up on the 3 linear feet of documents from the Frank Alkire collection in Tucson! Someone might get lucky and be able to narrow the window of Frank’s possible activities in October of 1891 yet further.
Garry
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#25) Novice
Subject: The Fourth Frank Alkire Account
I had seen a post from 2002 which related that the Frank Alkire story was not new and had been offered by another Lost Dutchman author 30 years previous. The author was not named and I had never run across the story.
Again Larry Hannah came to the rescue and pointed me to the book, “The Story of Superstition Mountain and the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine” by Robert Joseph Allen (1971)
I had read the book reviews on the Doug Stewart site and decided to save my money?
Larry was gracious enough to transcribe the section of Allen’s book, referencing the death of Jacob Waltz and the Frank Alkire story.
I’m going to paste in Allen’s version for those who may not have seen it before. He obviously has some “tall tales” but hopefully we can look beyond that and gain some additional insight into the possible evolution of the Alkire story. We do see several “common” elements in his version, that appear in the later accounts. We will attempt to review those elements later.
The author’s source is again directly from Frank Alkire.
Subject: The Fourth Frank Alkire Account
I had seen a post from 2002 which related that the Frank Alkire story was not new and had been offered by another Lost Dutchman author 30 years previous. The author was not named and I had never run across the story.
Again Larry Hannah came to the rescue and pointed me to the book, “The Story of Superstition Mountain and the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine” by Robert Joseph Allen (1971)
I had read the book reviews on the Doug Stewart site and decided to save my money?
Larry was gracious enough to transcribe the section of Allen’s book, referencing the death of Jacob Waltz and the Frank Alkire story.
I’m going to paste in Allen’s version for those who may not have seen it before. He obviously has some “tall tales” but hopefully we can look beyond that and gain some additional insight into the possible evolution of the Alkire story. We do see several “common” elements in his version, that appear in the later accounts. We will attempt to review those elements later.
The author’s source is again directly from Frank Alkire.
GarryPages 138 and 139
While Mrs. Gertrude Barkley, among the many who knew the Old Dutchman, is the only one still alive (as this book is being published), there was at least one other friend—a ninety-six-year-old man, who was alive, hale, and hearty at the time the writer first began working on this book. He was Frank T. Alkire, of Phoenix, Arizona, a member of a still flourishing Arizona pioneer family. He told the writer that on the occasion of the Great Flood, his father, Josiah, who was a friend of Walz's, became worried about the Old Dutchman because the water was known to be extremely high in the vicinity of his house. He asked Frank to go as soon as the water subsided somewhat to see how the old man was making out. Phoenix, an inland city, almost entirely lacked boats. (Frank had become friendly with Walz, a valued customer of the bank where Frank was a teller during school vacations.)
By the time Josiah asked Frank to check on Walz's situation, Schaffer and Holmes had already taken him to Julia's home, where Frank finally located him.
"Walz was lying in a bed in one corner of the front room of her small house, very shrunken and white and didn't seem to have all his senses. I could see he wasn't going to last long," Frank related.
"While I was there a rather curious thing happened which, it turned out, made more of an impression on my young mind than the situation of old Mr. Walz. Julia was throwing a magic powder into the fireplace which produced multi-colored flames, and was charging twenty-five cents for this show to a few people she let in at a time from the large crowd that had quickly gathered in the street outside when the word spread that Walz was in her house and dying. After I left I heard that she later raised the price to fifty cents, and finally, by various stages to two dollars and that, even so, her living room was continually crowded. Some of the customers would have paid any price, and Julia knew it, to get in and try to talk to Walz and ask him questions. But all they got for their money was to see the dancing colors in the fireplace. Holmes, Schaffer, and Julia took turns guarding Walz from anything that might further weaken him. Evidently they figured the heavy traffic in and out of the sightseers was a sort of tonic for him, but that night he could not hear them, or was past caring if he did.
"But Walz rallied somewhat following my visit, which was only the first of many on my part that summer. He hung on until October, when he died in the presence of Julia, Schaffer, and Holmes on the twenty-fourth. They made arrangements with a man named Ryder to build a coffin for him and two days later he was buried in Phoenix Cemetery, Lot Nineteen, grave four.
"A raft of stuff has been written about him since—much of it seemed fanciful to me—but one thing is certain about him: he could be a tough, rough man when necessary. I saw him around quite a bit during the ten years I knew him before he died—Phoenix was barely more than a good-sized village then —and he was its number one curiosity, though perhaps celebrity is a better word. The first time I ever remember seeing him was when I was about sixteen. I had gotten a job working during school vacations as a bank teller, and that very first summer he came to my window on at least three or four occasions. He used to send regular sums to various relatives in Germany, and a few who lived in this country, in St. Louis, as I recall.
"His long, striding walk and unusually erect carriage are the things I remember most clearly about him, because rarely does an old man walk that way, though you wouldn't forget his eyes, either. They were very piercing and when he looked straight at you he always seemed to be trying to probe you."
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#26) Joe Ribaudo
Subject: Allen.....
Garry,
I purchased Allen's book many years ago. Can't recall if I read it cover to cover, but I put it away and never looked at it again. I think I finally went back and checked out something someone else quoted a year ago or so ago. I also have Uncle Obie's copy......well annotated by him.
I am under the impression that Allen was the first to publish the "Alkire" account of Waltz's death. He writes that Alkire said that Waltz was in Julia's front room, and that he died there.
It's a bit of fiction that is full of factual holes, IMHO.
Take care,
Joe
Subject: Allen.....
Garry,
I purchased Allen's book many years ago. Can't recall if I read it cover to cover, but I put it away and never looked at it again. I think I finally went back and checked out something someone else quoted a year ago or so ago. I also have Uncle Obie's copy......well annotated by him.
I am under the impression that Allen was the first to publish the "Alkire" account of Waltz's death. He writes that Alkire said that Waltz was in Julia's front room, and that he died there.
It's a bit of fiction that is full of factual holes, IMHO.
Take care,
Joe
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#27) Zentull
Subject: None
My opinion is that Allens book fills out the top ten worst books written on the LDM, holding slots 1-10 all by itself.
zentull
Subject: None
My opinion is that Allens book fills out the top ten worst books written on the LDM, holding slots 1-10 all by itself.
zentull
Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory
(#Twenty-eight) Joe Ribaudo
Subject: Wow!!!!
Wayne,
That's a pretty damning opinion of a book that was written, primarily, to appeal to a mass market. I believe there are some pretty bad books that might slip into the top ten, but you do have a pretty good case.
Take care,
Joe
Subject: Wow!!!!
Wayne,
That's a pretty damning opinion of a book that was written, primarily, to appeal to a mass market. I believe there are some pretty bad books that might slip into the top ten, but you do have a pretty good case.
Take care,
Joe