Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona Territory

[novice]

(#29) Novice

Subject: Common Elements of the Frank Alkire Story

I have only read the Alkire excerpt from Allen but I suspect I would be in agreement with Joe and Wayne’s remarks.

For me it is not a question of whether the book is good or bad but instead; Where did Allen come up with his Frank Alkire story and how does it fit in with our other accounts?

There are several possibilities of where and how the story originated. We “know” that all of the accounts have differences and they "cannot" all be true. In fact, a lot of the details fail to pass muster when they are researched.

The most straight forward scenario would be to simply say that Frank Alkire was a teller of tale tales and in this case he told different stories to different people?

Another possibility is that since Allen was apparently the first to introduce the story to the general public, his story is the seed for the accounts. In this case, the later accounts have become corruptions of the Allen account?

Steve Creager was a master in analyzing how a story might have evolved and any effort by me will be found woefully lacking. I will simply try to list the common elements from Allen’s story with those published later.

Source of the Story:

All four have the story coming directly from Frank Alkire.

Frank Alkire’s Presence:

All have Frank Alkire being present when Waltz was on his death bed.

Julia throwing magic powder into a fireplace:

All of the accounts reflect some version of this element.

Julia was charging admission to see Waltz:

Again whether it was tickets or donations, all of the stories include this
theme. Three of the accounts have the ticket story but they all have different prices?

The Bank:

In Allen’s book, Frank Alkire worked as a teller in a Phoenix Bank and in Dr. Glover’s account we have Frank Alkire’s father Josiah serving as the President of a Phoenix Bank

Frank as a School Boy:

From Allen, the implication is that Frank was a young man still in school when he became involved with Waltz. In the Margaret Robert’s account (Glover), there was a reference to a schoolmate of Alkires observing the events following the death of Waltz.

Albert Schaffer was involved in rescuing Waltz from the Flood:

I am not sure whether there were earlier publications that introduce Albert Shaffer’s involvement in the Waltz flood story or if Allen was the first? The story was included in Helen’s Book.

Allen also has Schaffer present when Waltz dies.

Can someone provide an earlier published reference, than Joseph Allen, for Albert Schaffer being present at Waltz’s flood rescue and his death? I’m sure many of you have a much more extensive LDM library than myself. Thanks in Advance!!

"IF” Allen’s story (“tale?”) is the seed for the Frank Alkire story, in later accounts it has been cleaned up and expanded. We see the story being moved from Julia’s house to downtown Washington Street but it still retains many of the elements that Joseph Allen presented.

Garry

[novice]

(#30) Ozarker

Subject: Alkire per Allen

Garry/All:

My LDM library is also far from complete, and somebody may be able to add to this.

The Alkire account per Allen seems to agree with Brownie Holmes’ contention that it was his father and Albert Schaffer who had rescued Waltz from the flood.

[See Kollenborn/Swanson, A Ride Through Time, page 36; and Glover, The Golden Dream, page 152. Neither Kollenborn/Swanson or Glover provided a specific date or reference for Brownie’s contention. Glover states in “Notes and Further Readings” that he drew from the Brownie Holmes’ manuscript and taped interviews regarding Waltz’s rescue and eventual death]

If we go back and check the various writings, we see that Bark (Probert Version, Page 19), Ely (Page 111), and Storm (Thunder Gods Gold, Page 62) all stated that Rhiney alone had rescued Waltz.

In 1971, we have the Alkire account per Allen, in which Albert Schaffer and Dick Holmes rescued Waltz.

In 1990, Corbin (The Curse, page 85) initially agreed with Bark, Ely, and Storm. She then apparently came across new information, and in her 2002 book (The Bible, page 134) related that Rhiney and Schaffer rescued Waltz.

The odd man out is Eugenio Grijalva, who in 1942 related that it was himself, Sheriff Montgomery, Deputy Andy Barry, and an unidentified man with a wagon that rescued Waltz (Blair, page 69).

If we dig a little deeper, the account in Corbin that is attributed to Rhiney in 1933 (The Bible, page 138) seems to contradict what Corbin had written just a few pages before, in that Rhiney supposedly wrote and/or told to Bertie Roberts and Christine Cavaness Morell that he, Albert Schaffer, and Sheriff Montgomery went out to Old Jake’s place, and were then assisted by an unidentified man with a wagon. This is oddly similar to Eugenio Grijalva’s account, but with Rhiney and Albert Schaffer substituted for Grijalva and Deputy Barry.

If Corbin’s account attributed to Rhiney is authentic, and is dated accurately, it may be the earliest account involving Albert Schaffer (unless Brownie Holmes happened to mention it earlier). However, I am not convinced that we have the full story of that account, or that we’re understanding its provenance correctly.

Allen is the first published mention I’ve been able to find of Albert Schaffer being involved in Waltz’s rescue, recovery, and eventual death. Also, none of the published accounts that I could find included Dick Holmes in Waltz’s rescue until the Alkire account per Allen. If Frank Alkire actually related the account, I think we have to question where he was getting his information. The similarity to Brownie’s contention probably gives us a clue, but I don’t think it ends there.

Larry

[novice]

(#31) Joe Ribaudo

Subject: Josiah Alkire....1891

Garry and Larry,

Shortly after Frank and Asenath moved out to the ranch, he received a letter from his father. In it he stated that they had sold their home in St. Louis, and were going to California.

As Garry has mentioned, they moved to Pomona and were still living there in 1891. Frank mentions that Asenath went there to "remain in Pomona with her and my people", awaiting the birth of their first child. He also states, "Phoenix had no hospital, and but few doctors, at that time."
While Josiah may have had business interests in Phoenix, he was retired and not working at the bank mentioned in the Allen account.

My source, for now, is the "Little Lady....." Manuscript.

Take care,

Joe

[novice]

(#32) Novice

Subject: ???

Joe,

When and where Josiah and his family lived in Phoenix has been elusive! The timelines and documents are doing little to clear the picture yet.
From your manuscript, Frank seems to be saying that they went directly from St. Louis to California?

We do believe they left St. Louis in 1887 but Frank appears to be saying they left St. Louis after he married Asenath in April of 1889.

Leave it to Larry, but he shared a link in which the home in which the Alkire family lived in St. Louis was placed on the National Historic Register. In their research they relate the 1887 date.

http://www.dnr.mo.gov/shpo/nps-nr/84002666.pdf

Kind of an interesting. Pictures of the house and the background research.

Garry

[novice]

(#33) Novice

Subject: ???

Guys,

We did take an excursion yesterday, but sadly the Alkire house appears to be gone. The 1983 Address no longer exists. We went to the Pine Lawn City Hall and only received blank stares and later went to the St. Louis County Assessor’s Office and the Recorder’s Office and we were still unable to resolve the address. I’m sure the information is there but it would be buried on some older Plat Map and our time was limited. It appears some streets have been rerouted and a new subdivision created where the house once stood.

We did look at some of the deed “indexes” for Alkire but not the actual deed records (again a time problem). What we did come away with were a couple of hard dates and a couple of sidebars.

Josiah purchased a total of about 61 acres from the estate of John Finney but, for the preservation application, the home actually stood on a 48 acre portion of that purchase. Josiah purchased the 48 acres in two separate tracts from different Finney heirs. The execution date for these two instruments was January 28, 1879 and February 19, 1879. They were filed for record on the same day, February 28, 1879. Josiah sold the 48 acres on August 16, 1887. I believe that it would be safe to assume that the family no longer resided in this home after that date and it might be a good bet that they had moved out earlier?

We also find Josiah executing an instrument, February 4, 1887, giving Samuel N. Holliday (Lawyer) Power of Attorney. Although Josiah would retain an interest in the Wholesale Grocery Business in St. Louis, he appears to be laying the groundwork by early 1887 for a move from St. Louis.

We later stopped at the library and made a copy of the biographical information on Josiah in the St. Louis History book referenced in the preservation application (Published 1883). It provided a birth date for both Frank and George Alkire. The date for Frank fit perfectly but now I have questions about the date for George Alkire. I had previously referenced the date of George turning 21 and inferred that he would not have held any business properties until after reaching 21. His death certificate listed his birth date as May 28, 1870. That information was provided by his wife Maude in 1955.

The history lists his birth date as April 28, 1871. This information was probably collected from Josiah and it would have been in the 1883 time period. This date would be much closer to the actual event (1883) than Maude’s later recollection (1955). I would say it is probably a toss-up as far as which date is correct.

If the April 28, 1871 date is correct, and George didn’t turn 21 until April of 1892 (Waltz died Oct 1891) it would simply add a little additional weight to the belief that George and the Alkires “did not” own grocery store in Phoenix when Waltz died.

I know, boring, boring, boring! The trouble is that when researching, the devil is in the details!

Garry

[novice]

(#34) Roger

(Added) Roger posted some links related to Josiah Alkire and I have now lost those.

(#35) Novice

Subject: ???

Roger,

Thanks for the links. I have seen very little on the Alkire family in California. I certainly was not aware that Josiah had business investments there. I thought he was mostly kicking back in retirement and trying to get his sons set up in business in the Phoenix area.

The photo of the home was great. I would love to know the date the home was purchased. It might paint a clearer picture of the transition between St. Louis, Phoenix and Pomona. Lydia remained in California long after Josiah died while her two sons were both living in Phoenix. She was in the 1920 California census listed with a servant and several boarders.

I suspect the Alkires may have had some family ties to California and they didn’t end up there simply on a whim by Josiah? Those ties may have been the reason that Lydia remained in California. It appears that when she could no longer care for herself, she was brought back to Phoenix. She did die in Phoenix.

Pomona is part of Los Angeles County and research there is difficult.

Garry

[novice]

(#36) Novice

Subject: Albert Schaffer’s Involvement

While working with the Robert Joseph Allen version of the Frank Alkire Story, I identified one of the elements from Allen as being the involvement of Albert Schaffer rescuing Waltz from the flood and later the burial of Waltz.

In retrospect this was probably a distraction and that element has little connection in determining the likelihood of the Frank Alkire story.

Larry’s post on some of that background seems to suggest this story or at least the Waltz “deathbed” event may go all the way back to Dick Holmes.

Whether Albert was around in that time period (1891) would require its own investigation.

Garry

[novice]

(#37) Gregory Davis

(Added) Greg Davis shared his understanding of the timeline for Albert Schaffer and my post was a follow-up.

(Thirty-eight) Novice

Subject: ???

Greg,

Albert does show up in the Great Maricopa Register along with his brother Max Schaffer in Phoenix by 1890. Albert registered on Sept 30, 1890 and Max had registered a month or so earlier.

Albert again shows up registering on September 16, 1892. This time he lists his residence as Murphy, in Maricopa County. Max is gone but Albert’s brother Joseph is now residing in Phoenix.

Two or three years ago, Jim Hamrick tried to run down Murphy for me. He wrote:

“I did find a reference to a Murphy School District which started on the James T. Murphy ranch in 1886. The Location is/was approximately 2615 W. Buckey Rd. Phoenix. The time frame is correct and anyone living on or near the ranch might refer to "Murphy" as his place of residence.”

This seems to be a pretty good explanation for where Murphy might have been.

These dates and locations certainly give us a good start on a timeline for Albert. Since he was apparently not a property owner or a prominent citizen, I’m sure he will be very difficult to trace.

Garry

[novice]

(#39) Joe Ribaudo

(Added) This post is missing but Joe related the account of a trip Frank Alkire made to Phoneix before the birth of he and Asenath’s first child. There was the possibility that Frank might have happened to have been in town when Waltz died.

(#40) Novice

Subject: Where was Frank Alkire when Waltz Died?

Joe,

My rhetorical question regarding Dr. Glover’s account had a much narrower focus and was not intended to address the larger question of; where was Frank Alkire when Jacob Waltz was dying? It only involved the possible circumstance of Frank coming from the “Bank” where his father was alleged to be employed.

Adding another version of how Frank Alkire came to be in Phoenix on the evening preceding the death of Jacob Waltz can certainly do no harm as the other versions seem hopelessly flawed. The problem is that this version is also flawed.

I just obtained a copy of “The Little Lady of the Triangle Bar Ranch”. What a great read. I would recommend it to everyone.

The incident that you refer to has Frank rushing to Phoenix because he believes that the message he received has something to do with Asenath’s pregnancy. She was in California awaiting the birth of their first child Josiah (Jay). The details of the account relate that Frank arrived to find that someone wanted to buy some cows and he immediately turned around with little sleep and returned to the roundup which was in progress.

The flaw is that Josiah (Jay) Alkire was born January 28, 1891. Since Frank’s visit to Phoenix occurred before Josiah was born, that event would have been almost a year before Jacob Waltz’s death (October 25, 1891).

With the “Triangle Bar” manuscript available to us, hopefully, we may finally be able to create an improved timeline that will shed some light on what Frank was “likely” doing on the evening of October 24, 1891. As I digest the details in the “Triangle Bar”, I will “try” to put something together.

Garry

[novice]

This completes the "Frank Alkire and the Alkire Family in Arizona" thread as best that I could recreate it. Posts after this are new.

Garry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

That's a fine bit of work. Preserving the history of what is written on these forums is one hell of a workload. I know for you, as well as myself and many others, that history is worth the effort and expense.

A number of people have expressed concern to me, as to when, if and in what format Peter's Forum will return. The natural fear, is that some of the posts will be lost forever. Because of the previous problems, I know that a few people were creating their own backups of the Forum. I have some, but in my usual manner I was not consistent in that work. The longer things went along without a hitch, the less I copied and pasted the posts into drafts, which could then be saved.

Hopefully Peter's site will come back online without any changes or future problems. For those of us who are only interested in delving into the history surrounding the LDM, the work you have done is as great a source as anyone could hope for.

In that regard, you have risen above any LDM researcher that I can think of. While many have written very good books, posted little known historical facts and stories, you have made a permanent record that is available to anyone who can go online.

I understand that your project is an ongoing work, but you deserve our thanks right now. Those LDM researchers who have gone to a better world are all smiling down on you.

I will be sending you copies of all of the Alkire manuscripts, as well as the letters and records I have received from the Historical Society.

Many, many thanks,

Joe

[novice]

I wanted to create a timeline to follow the activities of Frank Alkire in 1891. It was in the fall of 1891 that Jacob Waltz died. Where was Frank and what was he up to?

The birth of Josiah (Jay) Alkire provides us with an anchor for our timeline. Much of the remaining information is taken from the “Triangle Bar” manuscript.

Josiah (Jay) Alkire, born January 28, 1891.

Frank was in California with Asenath when Josiah was born and there were complications following the birth. According to Frank, Asenath’s life hung in the balance for several days.

While Frank was in California it began to rain in the west. He referred to it as the “wet winter”. Eventually the Salt along with the other rivers in Arizona went out of their banks. This was all about February 20, 1891 and part of the same event when Jacob Waltz’s home was washed away. In Frank’s words, they received word that “Phoenix was washed off of the map.” Frank was anxious to return to the ranch and survey the damage.

It was several days later before a train could reach Yuma and Frank was on that train. From Yuma the train was able to continue on at speeds of three to five miles an hour, finally reaching Maricopa. Eventually he reached the ranch. Although the roads and fields were severely damaged, their home was OK.

From the Arizona Republican, March 13, 1891we find the following note.

“The New river rodeo begins April 1, at a point four miles above Frank Alkire’s ranch on New river.”

Note: The roundups were referred to as rodeos. This was the spring roundup of 1891.

The spring roundup was in full swing when Frank received word that “the little lady” was leaving California with the baby and they would be in Maricopa shortly. He left the roundup immediately and went to meet them and bring them to the ranch.

When Jay was 7 months old (About September 1, 1891), Frank, along with one of his hands, was planning a trip to a ranch about forty miles north of New River, to purchase some horses. The Little Lady decided that she and Jay would accompany the men on this trip. Frank records the “trials” of that trip in detail.

Frank relates that after they returned to the ranch, the horses that they purchased “were broken to ride in time for the Fall Rodeo [1891].”

We are nearing the time of Jacob Waltz’s death. (October 25, 1891)

Garry

[novice]

Hopefully, a better understanding of the mechanics of the fall rodeo will allow us to construct a better timeline in determining how it meshes with Waltz's death date.

I will paste in a brief description of a fall rodeo from “Arizona Sketches” by Joseph A. Munk.

The general round-up occurs in the fall, just after the summer rains, when there is plenty of grass and the horses and cattle are in good condition. The ranchmen of a neighborhood meet at an appointed time and place and organize for systematic work. A captain is chosen who is in command of the round-up and must be obeyed. Each cowboy has his own string of horses, but all of the horses of the round-up not in use are turned out to graze and herd together. A mess wagon and team of horses in charge of a driver, who is also the cook, hauls the outfit of pots, provisions and bedding.

The round-up moves from ranch to ranch rounding up and marking the cattle as it goes and is out from four to six weeks, according to the number of ranches that are included in the circuit.

When camp is made and everything ready for work the cowboys ride out in different directions and drive in all the cattle they can find. After the cattle are all gathered the calves are branded and the cattle of the several owners are cut into separate herds and held until the round-up is finished when they are driven home.

Every unbranded calf is caught and branded in its mother's brand. In a mix-up of cattle as occurs at a round-up, a calf sometimes gets separated from its mother so that when caught its identity is uncertain. To avoid making a mistake the calf is only slightly marked, just enough to hurt it a little, and is then turned loose. A calf when it is hurt is very much like a child, in that it cries and wants its mamma. As quick as it is let go it immediately hunts its mother and never fails to find her. When cow and calf have come together the calf is again caught and the branding finished.
Frank Alkire’s account provides some of the more personal circumstances surrounding his own involvement in the rodeo.

From “The Little Lady of the Triangle Bar Ranch,” by Frank Alkire.

The following is a description of the spring rodeo in 1891 but it gives us a general description of the Frank's personal involvement and activities during the rodeos.

Shortly after the Little Lady arrived at the ranch, it was time for the rodeo to start. This meant six weeks of hard work for the men and myself. It also meant that she would be left at the ranch with the old cook, except when we worked near our place, or moved on up to a neighboring rancher and his wife, living twelve miles further on the road.

I would be away a week or more at a time, for our range was rough and everything used on the rodeo was transported on pack animals.

In case it was ten days or more away from home, we invited the other ranch lady to come down and visit at our house. When the rodeo was near their home, the Little Lady went up to stay at their home.

It is obvious from the “Triangle Bar” manuscript that the New River Ranch was Frank’s principal business interest from about the fall of 1889 until the fall of 1892. He tells of numerous events that occurred on the ranch in this time period when he and Asenath were making their home on the ranch. Frank was a “hands on” owner during this period and he participated in both the spring and fall rodeos in this time frame.

The floods in the spring of 1891 had caused the deserts and hills to bloom. Frank wrote; “There was never more feed in the hills and desert than that spring [1891], and cattle were fat.”

Apparently no significant rains fell after that period and, by the fall rodeo, a drought was in full swing and the cattle were beginning to suffer. In fact the newspaper relates that in the Tucson area, cattle were dying from lack of feed and water. This would only be the beginning of the drought and it would go on for several more years.

The question remaining to be answered is; When did the 1891 Fall Rodeo take place? Does it overlap the time period of Jacob Waltz’s death?

Garry

[pippinwhitepaws]

no

[novice]

Betcha thought I would never get there!

In the Spring of 1891 the Arizona Republican refers to the New River Rodeo but I could find no specific reference to New River Rodeo for the fall. The newspaper does refer to the Cave Creek, Seven Springs and Verde Rodeos. These areas are near New River but in a northerly and easterly direction.

When Frank was writing about the Rodeo, he makes the following statement. “Our Rodeo district was quite a large one. It was forty miles long and 20 miles wide. The lower end was the desert next to the foothills. This gave us early grass and brush feed in the spring. Then came the high mesas and long canons, with the high ridges. Beyond were the high mountains, with timber and the finest of grass and summer range.”

Although Frank’s rodeo district was not specifically named in the Arizona Republican, it was close by and the rodeos in that area would have all shared a similar time frame.

There were two other Phoenix newspapers, besides the Arizona Republican, that might well shed a more direct light on the New River district rodeo, but we are limited with access to only those articles from the Arizona Republican.

The following articles were transcribed from the Arizona Republican.

1891, October 2 - Arizona Republican, Page 1
Messrs. Leon Bovier and Marion Sears commence their rodeo on the Middle Verde on October 10th.

The rodeo at Cave creek will be inaugurated October 12th. So says A. J. Hoskins, a prominent cattle man of that Section.

1891, October 10 - Arizona Republican, Page 1
Fred Wilcox left to McDowell yesterday, with Jim McCann, to take part in the Verde rodeo.

1891, October 11 - Arizona Republican, Page 1
Mauk informed Farrington yesterday that the cattle out in the Cave Creek district were so poor that they had to lean up against a rock to bellow. Mr. Farrington retorted by informing him that he well remembered the time when it took three cows to make a shadow.

1891, October 21 - Arizona Republican, Page 1
R. Looseley and Dave Hardenburg leave today for the Verde, where they will assist in the rodeo, now in progress.

1891, October 24 - Arizona Republican, Page 1
J. R. Loosely has gone to visit his Verde cattle and overlook the rodeo now in progress.

1891, October 25 – Jacob Waltz dies in Phoenix

1891, November 8 - Arizona Republican, Page 1
The rodeo on Camp Creek and Seven Springs is nearly over. The owners report the cattle in a rather poor condition, though none of them are dying.

It is not a long stretch to conclude that the New River Rodeo timeline would follow closely those noted above. It would have begun roughly the middle of October and have concluded about the middle of November. For a ranch owner, like Frank Alkire, there would have been a lot of prepartaion before the rodeo and the marketing of cattle after the completion of the actual roundup. (Frank’s description of a roundup requiring about 6 weeks to complete may include those activities before and after the actual roundup?)

Jacob Waltz died on October 25 and Frank Alkire would have surely been up to his armpits in a roundup.

Given all of the problems, previously noted, in the Frank Alkire story and now understanding that Frank Alkire was in the middle of a roundup invovlving his New River Ranch, we can surely conclude that, Frank wasn’t anywhere near Phoenix when Waltz died.

It seems to me that we can put the Frank Alkire story to rest. I believe it belongs in the same category as the mistaken story that Waltz died in a room behind Julia’s business in downtown Phoenix.

Garry

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

Been out of town a few days. You have done some really good work here.

"The question remaining to be answered is; When did the 1891 Fall Rodeo take place? Does it overlap the time period of Jacob Waltz’s death?"

It seems there is more than one answer to your question.......but, yes seems to be the right one.

Nice bit of research.

Take care,

Joe

[Joe Ribaudo]

Garry,

Sorry I haven't gotten the rest of the Alkire documents, from the Historical Society, to you yet. We have been pretty busy, and the Stoker Family Reunion is this coming weekend. Pretty much a full plate.

Here is a small portion of what is pertinent to your last post:

[The Rodeo was held three times a year, Spring branding, beef gathering and Fall branding. All of the owner in a district met, and with their men worked the ranges of that district until each ranch was ridden and worked out. This often took a month or six weeks to make a "clean scald" as the men said.] (Frank Alkire)

We spent Friday in Phoenix at the NRA 's Leadership Forum, which was part of the convention. Great speakers at the event, and well worth the time and effort to get there. We had set up camp in the Hualapais on Thursday, drove down to Phoenix Friday for the convention, and back to camp that night.





And how was YOUR weekend???

Take care,

Joe

[TC ASKEY]

Joe,

The photos are unbelieveable.