Location of Julia Thomas Business 1891

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Ozarker
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Accepted Fact

Post by Ozarker »

(#16)

03-16-2009, 02:38 PM
Novice
Subject: Accepted Fact

Joe,
Quote:
You wrote:

“It is well accepted that Waltz died in Julia's shop. Without your work, there would have never been any question of that fact .”
I would put it a little differently. It was a well accepted fact for over 100 years that Waltz died at Julia's home. The story of Waltz dying behind Julia's shop only came into vogue a few years ago.

I suspect that if you go back and review your library of Dutchman books and literature (Pre 1990s), you won't find the second story suggested. I think everyone was content with Jake's death at Julia's house until modern day stories surfaced. (If I'm wrong please let me know I will certainly be interested and will stand corrected.)

Even if we look in Helen Corbin's book, published in 1990, we find her relating that Jacob died in a hut behind Julia's house.

Go figure?

Garry
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True.....

Post by Ozarker »

(#17)

03-16-2009, 04:04 PM
Joe_Ribaudo
Subject: True......

Garry,

That's a true comment, but I didn't say that it has always been accepted as a fact. I said it is accepted fact...... . Perhaps it is not so well accepted, but that is the impression that I get whenever we discuss things, like the Frank Alkire's story.

I believe no one has voiced any doubts about the fairly new, in print, stories. In another 100 years, the original stories will be laughed at as.......quaint. That's how history gets changed.
Take care,

Joe
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Capitol Building History

Post by Ozarker »

(# Eighteen)

03-16-2009, 04:07 PM
Ozarker
Subject: Capitol Building History

To understand how Julia Thomas came to lease the store in the Capitol Building, it's probably necessary to back up a bit and cover some its earlier history.

When the Town of Phoenix was first established, town lots were set aside for the early residents, and in April 1872, a man named Johnny George came to own Lot 6 and the west 15 feet 2 inches of Lot 4 in Block 21 (Deed Book 1 Page 61).

Johnny made improvements to the property which were appraised at $2500 (Farish, History of Arizona, 1918), and in November 1878 he sold the property to WT Smith and Allen Stroud (Deed Book 4 Page 72).

Smith eventually gained sole ownership of the property, and went into business with Lofus H Goodrich, signing an agreement with him that gave Smith a two-year lease on the property (January 1882 to January 1884), including what was then known as the Capitol House situated on the property (Deed Book 7 Page 242). This agreement required that, at the end of the two-year lease, one of the men had to buy out the other, and he would become the sole owner of the property. Goodrich apparently made the better offer, and Smith sold out to him in late 1883 as required by their agreement (Deed Book 10 Page 7). Immediately after Goodrich acquired sole ownership of the property, he began making improvements to the building and executing leases to various businesses/shop owners.

The first set of leases from Goodrich show that there was room for three businesses in the building, and that he was adding an addition on the east side that would make room for a fourth. Goodrich executed the leases for two-year terms, with the first set of leases covering the period of January 1884 to January 1886. Going from west to east the businesses were laid out as follows:

Chung Phy's Restaurant (16 feet wide by a planned 75 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 104)
Asher's and Abe Kiewe's Barbershop (9 feet wide by a planned 75 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 110)
WT Smith's Saloon (17.5 feet wide by an existing 75 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 101)
Asher Bros. unspecified business waiting construction (planned 14.5 feet wide by planned 75 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 98)

When the above leases were executed, the building appeared to be a patchwork of different structures of various depths. There was a second story to the structure, but it appears that it only existed above the saloon, and it was included in the saloon lease. This second story was probably intended for lodging rooms, but it is not clear whether they were complete at this point.

Near the end of 1885, Goodrich began executing leases for the coming two-year period (January 1886 to January 1888). It appears from these leases that he had made considerable progress in improving the building, but that there was still work to be done to make it of a uniform depth. The addition to the east end of the building had been completed, lodging rooms definitely existed above the saloon, and the stores were laid out west-to-east, as follows:

Joe Gunn's Restaurant (16 feet wide by 75 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 213)
Abe Kieve's Cigar Shop (9 feet wide by 25 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 247)
WT Smith's Saloon (17.5 feet wide by 75 feet deep, plus the space behind store number 4) (Lease Book 1 Page 266)
Shumaker's Barbershop and Bath's (14 feet wide by 40 feet) (Lease Book 1 Page 251)


As shown in the above leases, ownership of the restaurant had changed hands, and Abe Kiewe was now on his own and was in the cigar business. H. Shumaker had taken over the store on the east end of the building, and was in the barbershop and baths business.

This set of leases was interrupted by the 1886 fire that swept through downtown, destroying most of the businesses in this area lying on the north side of Washington Street. I couldn't find a reference with a firm date of the fire, but from the new leases that Goodrich had to execute after reconstruction of the building, it appears that it occurred in about August of that year.

Goodrich took this opportunity to build a more integrated structure of uniform depth, and executed new leases that ran from the date that the individual stores were ready for occupancy, through to the end of the previous set of leases (i.e., the end of 1887). From these new leases, we see that the layout of the stores shifted. The new layout of the stores, from west-to-east were as follows:

Joe Gunn's Restaurant (16 feet wide by 75 feet deep)
WT Smith's Saloon (19 feet wide by 75 feet deep, plus the space behind stores 3 and 4) (Lease Book 1 Page 290)
Tobias Seelig's Cigar Shop (12 feet wide by 40 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 292)
Shumaker's Barbershop/Baths (15.5 to 16 feet wide by 40 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 289)


Goodrich did not execute a new lease for the restaurant above (which just happens to be the store that Julia would eventually come to lease), which may indicate that the store wasn't affected by the fire, and was retained as part of the new structure. The lease for the saloon indicated that the second story had been destroyed, and there were no immediate plans to rebuild it. The saloon lease also indicated that the rebuilt saloon was L -shaped, with the "L" taking up the space behind the two stores that would now occupy the east end of the building. The new layout of the building is accurately reflected on the later November 1890 Sanborn map excerpt posted above.

(One other note about this new set of leases is that Abe Kiewe did not renew with Goodrich after the fire, and the cigar business was taken over by Tobias H Seelig)

Near the end of these leases, Goodrich, following his usual routine, executed another set of leases for the coming two-year period (January 1888 to January 1890). It appears from these new leases that the shape of the building had stabilized, and there were no appreciable changes in the layouts or dimensions of the stores. From west-to-east, the stores were as follows:

Joe Gunn and Jim Lee's Restaurant (16 feet wide by 80 feet deep more or less ) (Lease Book 1 Page 383)
Butler and Pimm's Saloon (19 feet wide more or less by about 75 feet deep, plus the space behind stores 3 and 4) (Lease Book 1 Page 398)
Tobias Seelig's Cigar Shop (12 feet wide more or less by 40 feet deep more or less ) (Lease Book 1 Page 391)
Shumaker's Barbershop and Baths ( about 16 feet wide more or less by about 40 feet deep) (Lease Book 1 Page 385)


Again, these layouts compare favorably with the November 1890 Sanborn map. One item of note is that Joe Gunn had taken on a new partner in the restaurant business, Jim Lee. Some of you may recall that there was a Jim Lee that loaned $75 to Julia, and filed the record of it the day before her divorce hearing (Miscellaneous Book 4 Page 517). You'll also note that WT Smith's saloon business had now been taken over by Pierce Butler and Sarah Pimm. Pierce Butler is the man that would come to lease the store occupied by Joe Gunn and Jim Lee as a restaurant, to Julia Thomas in June of 1891.

I'll break here, and continue the story in another post.

Larry
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Julia's New Lease

Post by Ozarker »

(#19)

03-16-2009, 05:06 PM
Ozarker
Subject: Julia's New Lease

Toward the end of 1889, Lofus Goodrich executed a new lease for the restaurant in the Capitol Building, formerly leased by Joe Gunn and Jim Lee, to a man named Charley Sam (Lease Book 2 Page 101).

Charley Sam, like Joe Gunn and Jim Lee before him, was Chinese, and he was in the restaurant business, signing the lease with Goodrich for a two-year term (January 1890 to January 1892). (The Chinese heritage of these three men is evidenced by their signatures on the various leases).

For some reason, Charley did not complete the term of his lease, and instead moved to a store just down the street to the west (Lease Book 2 Page 139).

Instead of letting the restaurant set empty, Goodrich decided to lease it to James Coleman for use as a saloon (Lease Book 2 Page 212). Coleman, however, was then indicted for selling saloon fixtures under false pretenses (Arizona Republican, 22 May 1891), and Goodrich, who was in California at the time, hastily executed a new lease for the store to a man named Ben Butler (Lease Book 2 Page 121).

At first, I thought that Ben Butler was somehow related to Pierce Butler, the saloon proprietor, but I was later led to the death certificate of one of his children, where it was indicated that Ben was Pierce's nickname. The genealogical history of Jack Swilling's daughter, who was married to Pierce Butler at one time, also confirmed that Ben was his nickname. Finally, I was also led to several Arizona Republic newspaper articles and advertisements that make it clear that Ben' was Pierce Butler's nickname, and it was in fact the same person (Arizona Republican, 7 June 1893; 21 September 1894; 11 December 1895; 27 February 1898; etc.).

Two weeks after Pierce Ben Butler leased the store from Goodrich, he executed a sublease for the store to Julia Thomas (Lease Book 2 Page 132). As noted before, Julia's lease began on 1 June 1891, just a few short months before the death of Jacob Waltz.

Larry
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Previous Researchers

Post by Ozarker »

(#20)

03-17-2009, 02:23 AM
Novice
Subject: Previous Researchers

Previous researchers, working on the location of Julia's business, certainly receive a lot of sympathy from me Julia's lease has been available to researchers for a long time (Lease Book 2, Page 132). Greg Davis has shared it and even paraphrased it on the forums. The problem is that it doesn't tell us directly about the actual location of Julia's business. There is no Block Number and Lot Number associated with the lease. About all we know is that it was in a place known as the Capital Building, Julia was leasing it from some fellow named Butler and it had been Coleman's Saloon previously. It could be anyplace in Phoenix from that description alone.

This is where the trail begins and Larry has worked backward from there. What is amazing to me, regarding what Larry has done, is the tedious path that he has followed to finally reach the Block Number and Lot Nos. It is obvious from his posts that the lease chain is long and convoluted. It's certainly not a research project that most of us could have pulled off

I have enough trouble trying to follow, even after he has laid out a detail path out for us

The bottom line for me is that he did get there and there is no fuzz on where Julia's business was physically located.

Amazing job,

Garry
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Phillips Leggat Confectionary

Post by Ozarker »

(#21)

03-17-2009, 08:28 AM
Ozarker
Subject: Phillips Leggat Confectionary

Some of this information has already been touched on, but it's important to assemble and place it here to complement the information on Julia's store across the street.

On 25 March 1891, a little over two months before Julia signed the lease for the store in the Capitol Building, JW and RB Dorris, doing business as the Dorris & Co, sold the Dorris & Co. Fruit, Confectionery and Oyster and Ice Cream Parlor, a store located in Block 22 and leased from George Loring, to Frank Phillips and WS Leggat (Miscellaneous Book 4 Page 407). Dorris and Co. was selling their lease from Loring, their entire business stock, the furniture, and the store fixtures to Phillips and Leggat. They were also selling a soda fountain located at the business, and were requiring Phillips and Leggat to maintain insurance in the amount of $500 on the fountain until they paid off the vendors lien that Dorris & Co was maintaining on the property.

On 4 April 1891, less than two weeks after Phillips and Leggat bought the Dorris & Co confectionary store, George Loring mortgaged all of Lot 13 Block 22 (which included the new Phillips and Leggat confectionary on the east side of the lot and a saloon run by MJ McKelligon on the west side of the lot) to Josiah Alkire, of St Louis, Missouri, for $7500. The terms of this mortgage required Loring and his wife, Jennie Libby Loring, to repay the mortgage within one year (Mortgage Book 12 Page 508).

One year later, on 4 April 1892, George and Jennie Loring had repaid the mortgage on the property to Josiah Alkire, who was now located in Los Angeles County, California (Release of Mortgages Book 2 Page 22).

(Note: The release of mortgage record from Josiah to the Lorings is misfiled at the county recorder web site, and you must actually select Release of Mortgages Book 2 Page 21, then scroll to the next page to find the record. It cannot be found using a normal index search)

After purchasing the lease and business from the Dorris & Co, Phillips and Leggat continued to operate the store as a confectionary, appearing in the 1892 Phoenix directory on Washington, between Center and Montezuma. Julia Thomas is listed three names below the Phillips and Leggat store, and is also shown as running a confectionary, also being on Washington, between Center and Montezuma.

The next record found on the Phillips and Leggat store is located in Lease Book 2 Page 234. RF Kirkland, acting as a trustee, executed a new 3-year lease for Phillips and Leggat, which specifies the northeast corner of Lot 13 Block 22 as the space being leased, and that it was currently occupied by Phillips and Leggat. This document has some problems (missing and unreadable dates, and a possible date error entry by the notary public). From other information in this lease, I believe it was executed in December of 1892, and I also believe that it covered the three-year period of 1893 to 1896. (A trip to the county recorder's office would resolve the date of execution of this instrument)

In August 1896, George Loring's wife leased the store next door to Phillips and Leggat (MJ McKelligon's saloon) to Otto Waldeck, stating that the store was located between stores occupied Phillips (this was the confectionary) and Vantilburg and Davison (this was a jeweler on the opposite side). (Lease Book 2 Page 478). Leggat's name was not cited by Mrs Loring, and it is possible that he had left the partnership by this time.

Finally, on 3 January 1898, Jennie Libby Loring (George Loring's wife) executed a new lease for the ice cream store to Mrs. MG Wood, citing it as the building previously occupied by Phillips as an Ice Cream Parlor and Confectionary Store . According to the 1901 Sanborn map, the store was converted to selling Crockery and Furniture, and it's possible that Mrs. Wood was in this business (Lease Book 2 Page 563).

I've traced the history of how Loring came to be in possession of the property, similar to the history I laid out for the Capitol Building (Loring was a respected businessman, but in this particular instance he was a squatter, eventually going legit and gaining legal title to the property in November 1878). I can provide that history and the record locations if anyone is interested.

In May 1899, a little over a year after the Phillips confectionary went out of business, the Lorings sold all of Lot 13 (which included both the former ice cream store and the former saloon) to Mons Ellingson (Deed Book 48 Page 142). Mons was the man that eventually leased the store to Donofrio's in 1911 (Lease Book 4 Page 97).

Larry
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Post by Ozarker »

(#22)

03-17-2009, 04:06 PM
Cubfan64

Really interesting stuff Ozarker I've only casually looked through some of those records online and my eyes get fuzzy trying to read some of them after only 15 minutes - I can hardly imagine the work involved going through everything you did

I thought with all the views of this thread there might be more discussion, but it IS alot of information to absorb all at once

Greg, if you're looking in - there are digital Sanborn Maps available, but none online between November, 1890 and June, 1893. Do you know (or have) any other Sanborn maps of Phoenix (or any other city maps that might be useful) during that missing timeframe?

It would sure be fun to sit down sometime with a bunch of old photographs of Phoenix and try to match things up with those maps

Great work again Ozarker - once I absorb it all myself, I'll probably have some questions.
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Post by Ozarker »

(#23)

03-17-2009, 05:06 PM
Gregory E. Davis

Hello Paul: I have a copy of the Sanborn Map for Phoenix for l889, 1890, and 1893. The stamp on the maps indicate I got them through the Library of Congress however there may be duplicates at the Arizona State Capitol Library. Regards, Gregory E. Davis
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Post by Ozarker »

(#24)

03-17-2009, 05:55 PM
Cubfan64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory E. Davis

“Hello Paul: I have a copy of the Sanborn Map for Phoenix for l889, 1890, and 1893. The stamp on the maps indicate I got them through the Library of Congress however there may be duplicates at the Arizona State Capitol Library. Regards, Gregory E. Davis”
Looks like you have the same ones I've seen online. I had hoped maybe there had been some in 1891 & 1892, but they must not have updated any at that time.

Thanks for checking Greg.
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Post by Ozarker »

(#25)

03-17-2009, 06:34 PM
Gregory E. Davis

Paul: Chances are there were no major changes in Phoenix from 1890 to 92 so what the Sanborn people would do is simply draw in new lines for buildings or past in small pieces of paper to denote any changes rather than do an entire new map. I have seen this done when viewing the original maps. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
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Shortcut?

Post by Ozarker »

(#26)

03-18-2009, 05:55 AM
Novice
Subject: Shortcut?

I know Larry would like to have everyone look over his shoulder and satisfy themselves regarding the location of Julia's business. I also realize his research is awfully intimidating.

I wanted to offer a shortcut that I used that got me 99% of the way there. The other records Larry references quickly put me at 100%.
Quote:

“All of these documents can be viewed on the Maricopa County Recorder's web site. After reaching the correct search menu, simply insert the book and page you are searching for and follow the links.”

Lease Book 2, Page 132 – This is Julia's lease and it names the Capital Building as the location of her business.

Lease Book 2, Page 121 – This lease provides the name of L. H. Goodrich who was the owner of the Capital Building.

Lease Book 1, Page 101 – This lease identifies the Capital Building owned by Goodrich. It also gives us the physical description. The building covered all of Lot 6 and the west 15 feet 2 inches of Lot 4 in Block 21.

The Sanborn Fire Maps, that Paul provided the link for, will give you the visual and orientation of Block 21, Lot 4 and Lot 6.

I suspect I have made Larry cringe with this "dumbing down" approach but it was this type of exercise that put me in the ballpark. Hopefully it might help someone else?

Garry
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County Records and Sanborn Maps

Post by Ozarker »

(#27)

03-18-2009, 06:43 AM
Ozarker
Subject: County Records and Sanborn Maps

Novice/All:

Garry has echoed a point that others have also made. This type of material and the number, complexity, and vagaries of the records can be intimidating for some, while others simply don't have the time to go through every record posted here to verify my conclusions. Another problem is the user interface at the county recorder web site. Combined with the indexing problems associated with the records, it can all be very discouraging, and I appreciate Garry passing along what worked for him.

Cubfan:

It would be nice to find updates or revisions to the Sanborn maps between November 1890 and June 1893 (as well as any other updates for other years). I suspect they'd lend alot to this and other efforts.

Between November 1890 and June 1893, the kitchen at the rear of the store Julia eventually leased went through an enlargement, nearly tripling its square footage. The problem is that because we only have these two versions of the map to work with (near that time window), we don't know whether the enlargement took place before, during, or after Julia's tenancy.

I was glad you asked and that Greg was able to check his files. Hopefully somone else has some additional experience with what's available and can chime in.

Larry
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Post by Ozarker »

(#28)

3-18-2009, 09:38 AM
zentull

J W Dorris cash grocers at 1st and Washington. Dorris as mentioned earlier in this thread established his first store in 1888 and sold out to his brother in 1891. Dorris became partners in R W Drapers and later bought him out, establishing this store (which expanded and became one of the larger grocers on Washington) in 1892.

Image
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Post by Ozarker »

(#29)

03-18-2009, 09:42 AM
zentull

I believe someone posted these photographs, but those posts are missing from when the site went down. Donofrios exterior and interior photographs at 25 east Washington.

Image


Image
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Dorris Cash Grocery and Street Addresses

Post by Ozarker »

(#30)

03-18-2009, 10:53 AM
Ozarker
Subject: Dorris Cash Grocery and Street Addresses

To add to Zentull's post, the JW Dorris store shown in the photo was known as the Dorris Cash Grocery, and was located in Block 20, opposite the old City Hall and very close to the former store of Julia and Emil Thomas. (It's not the Dorris confectionary store in Block 22 that had been proposed as the later location of Waltz's death).

How Dorris came to own the business in Block 22, across the street from Julia's actual location, is still not clear, but it appears that it had to be after January 1889, when the store is shown as being vacant on that version of the Sanborn map. George Loring owned the building even then, but I haven't been able to find a lease from him to Dorris. The first mention we have that a Loring lease actually existed is in the document from Dorris selling the business to Phiilips and Leggat on 25 March 1891.

I'm also glad that Zentull mentioned a street address, since that can be confusing. During the 1890s, Phoenix began implementing revisions to street addresses throughout the town. This was necessary because the same number often appeared more than once on any given street, and was probably confusing as the city continued to grow. The revisions to the addresses changed things to what we are used to today, with numbers increasing in sequence from Center Street (east-west) and Washington (north-south).

Different authors have given different addresses for Julia's old and new businesses over the years. In fact, I have yet to find any two addresses that match for any given store. This was probably due to the revisions in the street addresses, but also because there was some confusion about where Julia actually relocated.

This is a list of the stores during the years of interest, their actual addresses, and type of business as indicated on the various Sanborn maps:

January 1889
Old Store 9 (bread-confectionery)
New Store 14 (restaurant)
Loring (owner) 33 (vacant)

November 1890
Old Store 9 (bakery-confectionery)
New Store 14 (restaurant)
Dorris Confec. 33 (confectionery)

June 1893
Old Store address not shown, between 130 and 136 (millinery)
New Store 26 (restaurant)
Phillips-Leggat 23 (confectionery)
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Post by Ozarker »

(#31)

03-18-2009, 12:07 PM
Roger
Subject: Rhinehart Petrasch's Info on Julia's Store

Helen Corbin includes in her book, The Bible, on Pages 138 - 140, a narrative that Rhiney Petrasch had WRITTEN DOWN and TOLD to Bertie Roberts. Here are some details pertaining to Julia's store and where Waltz resided in those final months from Page 139 (parenthesis are added by me) just after Rhiney and Albert Schafer got him back in town from the 1891 flood:

"....When he (Waltz) recovered his senses (at the Doctor's place) we took him over to Julia's house on Jackson Street and put him up in the sun porch off the kitchen (all the sleeping rooms were being used at the time). Old Waltz raised a fit the whole time he was there and Julia moved her bakery business from across the plaza and moved in next to Archer's on the south side of Washington Street. Julia put Waltz up in a little storage room in back of that bakery. All's he had in there was a pallet for a bed and a chair and some shelfs but he quit fittin and fussin all the time and finally seemed satisfied."

Helen also writes the following information of what happened after Waltz died on Page 137 - 138 which came from the Roberts family history:

"Walt's body was taken to Julia's home to be prepared for burial, a common practice in that era. Several friends came by that day to pay their respects only to learn that Jacob Waltz had already been taken to the cemetary and buried."

Some conclusions from this detail:

1. Waltz was at Julia's HOME for awhile after he survived the flood and was take to her home AFTER he died for burial prep. Note the wording in the Phoenix Daily Herald Oct 26, 1891, newspaper articles on Page 141:

"Jacob Waltz, aged 81 years, died at 6 a.m. Sunday, October 25, 1891, and was buried at 10 o'clock this morning, from the residence of Mrs J.E. Thomas......."

Note the word "from" in the news article - it is consistent with him being buried from that residence as Rhiney wrote and does not necessarily imply that Waltz was living there when he died.

I think that Waltz having been at Julia's residence at the first of his illiness and being buried from her residence has created a lot of the confusion about Waltz living at her home and not the back of her store. Since Rhiney worked at the store then and help care for Waltz, I would give significant creedence to his version of happened as he wrote it down.

2. Rhiney states that Julia's new store was on the SOUTH side of Washington Street and next to a business run by Archer. Again, since Rhiney worked in the store, I would believe he would know the difference between the South vs North side of the street. Does someone know where the Archer store was located? That might validate Rhiney's version even further. It could be possible that Julia executed a lease for the North side and backed out of that and then took a location on the South side and that record has not surfaced yet.

Cubfan,

I caught the information in Slim Kite's taped interview also about Dick Holmes wife saying that she lived just across the fence to the adjoining property of Julia Thomas where Waltz was living. Slim said Mrs. Holmes said Julia came out and yelled for Dick to come over as Jake was dying. The problem with this story is that Dick Holmes lived acorss the street and a half a block West of where Julia lived - they certainly did not share a fence. Suspect this story is bogus.

My general take on all this is that Waltz stayed in the storeroom behind Julia's store, died there, was taken to Julia's home for burial prep, and then buried a few hours later.

The one other item of note: Rhiney said on Page 139 that he removed two cans of gold from beneath Waltz's hearthstone at his ruined adobe home and that each can weighed 30 - 40 lbs. Assume that each can weighted 35 lbs and that the cobbed gold ore in the cans was 80% pure would give 28 lbs of pure gold in each can. 28 lbs is 34 troy lbs or 408 troy ounces. At $35/oz, each can was worth $14,280 and both cans were worth $28,560. We know from records that Dick Holmes got $4,800 when he cashed in some gold shortly after Waltz passed away. These figures would lead one to believe he still had $23,760 in his possession after that sale which funded him a very good lifestyle for a number of years to come. Maybe Dick Holmes did not find the Lost Dutchman, but he reaped a very good reward from the dead Dutchman

Waltz's 408 troy ounces of gold would be worth $380,664 at today's gold price of $933/oz. And to think, Waltz said the big cache of gold that he and Wieser had made was still hidden in the Superstitions. Have to wonder how much a big cache would be worth today based on what old Jake had under his bed.

Roger
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Bertie Roberts.....

Post by Ozarker »

(#32)

03-18-2009, 01:03 PM
Joe_Ribaudo
Subject: Bertie Roberts......

Roger,

Thanks for that refresher course. Anything older than ten minutes ago is lost to my memory banks.

The one thing I am sure of, is that Bertie Roberts is as good as it gets. Was there a date for that interview? You would think the discussion would have triggered my memory about her interview.

I am not sure gold was $35 an oz. in 1891.

Thanks again,

Joe
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Post by Ozarker »

(#33)

03-18-2009, 01:26 PM
zentull

Roger posted:
“Helen also writes the following information of what happened after Waltz died on Page 137 - 138 which came from the Roberts family history:

Walt's body was taken to Julia's home to be prepared for burial, a common practice in that era. Several friends came by that day to pay their respects only to learn that Jacob Waltz had already been taken to the cemetary and buried. ”

Only problem is did they pick up the morning paper Monday when the Obit was posted and find he was already buried before 10 AM Monday morning? If you take the Petrasch story at face value there are some time issues for everything to happen as it did. 3/4 of the stories have Petrasch at Waltz's bedside in one form or another(including early Holmes accounts) and the other side is Rhiney being drunk on the boardwalk

Another annoying thing is 1/2 the time Herman and Rhiney push Waltz and the other 1/2 the time they are on the Waltzer kick.

The documentation presented in this thread seems to lean differently with what has been presented in the past and I believe it is just as valid as what we have read before.
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Post by Ozarker »

(#34)

03-18-2009, 01:28 PM
zentull

Joe,

1933 at Riverside park
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Post by Ozarker »

(#35)

03-18-2009, 02:23 PM
Ozarker
Subject: 1891

Roger:

My review of the county records revealed nobody named Archer as either a lessor or lessee for any business located on Washington Street between Cortes (1st Avenue) and Maricopa (2nd Street). This encompassed the blocks on both sides of Washington for a three-block stretch, with the location of Julia's business almost dead center.

An index search of all official county records (deeds, miscellaneous, brand books, mining records, etc.) results in hits for only one couple named Archer that owned Lot 18 in Block 24 from about 1888 to 1890, but there are no other Archers in that time frame. The index search at the county web site has its problems, and this doesn't mean that there weren't more Archers, just that they don't appear to be indexed.

A search of the 1892 combined business and city directory reveals a listing for "RH Archer, saloonkeeper, res Maricopa cor Jefferson". A review of the plat map of Phoenix (Hancock Survey) reveals that at the corner of Maricopa and Jefferson is located Lot 18 Block 24, so that corresponds to the deed record mentioned above. The problem is that the directory does not identify which saloon Archer was working in.

According to the November 1890 Sanborn map, there was only one saloon on the south side of Washington in Block 22, and it was located immediately next door to the Dorris Confectionary (later sold to Phillips-Leggat, who also operated it as a confectionary). This saloon was run by MJ McKelligon. On the north side of Washington, in Block 21 where I believe Julia actually located, there were three saloons, including the one that was located right next door to her and called "The Capitol Saloon". It was run by Pierce W. Butler and Sarah Pimm.

A review of the 1893 Sanborn map shows that one additional saloon had opened on the north side of the street in Block 21, in the former grocery store operated by Farley and Gant (five stores to the west from Julia). No additional saloons were opened on the south side of the street in Block 22.

I asked Greg Davis to send me transcripts of the following articles which shed some light on whether Julia actually ever moved in, or if she backed out of the lease that's been discussed. The newspaper accounts are from May 1891 and complement the lease records that have already been presented:

Phoenix Daily Herald (28 May 1891) Page 3 Column 2

"The soda water, fruit and confectionary business built up within the past few years by Mrs. J.E. Thomas has become so extensive, that her present quarters proved altogether inadequate. The large and commodious rooms between Jacobs & Co. and The Capitol, on Washington street have therefore been leased. Everything in the way of refreshments, mineral waters, ice cream, oranges, lemons, fruits and candies of all descriptions will be found here. Cool alcoves and prompt attention are provided for all who seek rest and recuperation in this most inviting retreat."


Arizona Daily Gazette (29 May 1891) Page 4 Column 2

"Thomas' ice cream parlor was moved yesterday from the old stand opposite the city hall to the room recently occupied by Coleman's saloon."


Jacobs and Co. was located on the north side of Washington in Block 21, two doors to the west of the store that Julia signed the lease for, and "The Capitol" was the Pierce Butler and Sarah Pimm saloon, immediately next door to Julia on the east. The Jacobs and Co. lease that was in effect when Julia leased the store can be found in (Lease Book 2 Page 110). The Capitol Saloon lease of Butler and Pimm can be found in (Lease Book 1 Page 398). The fact that Julia was leasing the former Coleman saloon is mentioned in her lease (Lease Book 2 Page 132). And finally, Coleman's lease, which shows that the saloon was in the Capitol Building, is in (Lease Book 2 Page 112).


Joe:

Helen's paragraph on page 138, immediately preceding the written account attributed to Rhiney, is as follows:

"Rheinhart Petrasch relates the story of retrieving some of Waltz's property after the flood in 1891. The account, which follows, was written down by Rheinhart and told to Bertie Roberts and Christine (Cavaness) Morrell at the Pioneer Days Celebration held in Phoenix Riverside Park in 1933."

When I read that passage, I see that it can be taken one of two ways:

1) It was written down by Rhiney, who then told the story, or
2) It was written down by Rhiney, then told by somebody, but not necessarily Rhiney.

I'm keeping my mind open to either possibility.

Larry
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Ganz and the Cotten Block

Post by Ozarker »

(#36)

03-18-2009, 02:49 PM
Ozarker
Subject: Ganz and the Cotten Block

The 1933 account by Rhiney, cited by Roger in his previous post, also contains the following passage on page 140:

"Waltz told me to break the gold out of the rock best I could and sell it at Ganz's store across from the cotton [sic] block there."

The Cotten Block is referring to the Cotten Building (buildings were also called blocks then, as evidenced in the county records and on the Sanborn maps). The building was located in Block 22 on the southeast corner of Center and Washington. During my records review, I paid particular attention to locating Ganz's store (probably referring to Emil Ganz), keeping my eye out for records of him owning or operating any stores in Blocks 21, 22, or 77; the three blocks that one could possibly have been located based on the 1933 account. To make a long story short, I could find no records of a Ganz-owned or -operated business in those three blocks in 1891, or for the period 1882 to 1900 for that matter.

Again, there are problems with the records, but for that stretch of time, I would have thought that at lease one record would show up?

Larry
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1891 Gold Prices

Post by Ozarker »

(#37)

03-18-2009, 03:26 PM
Roger
Subject: 1891 Gold Prices

Joe,

You are correct - the price of gold for the year of 1891 was $20.67. That would make the total gold value from Waltz at $8,433 which would leave Dick Holmes with $3,633 in gold after selling $4,800 of it. Still not a bad sum for the 1891 era.

Here is the web site for gold pricing history back to 1793:

http://goldinfo.net/yearly.html

Thanks for the catch.

Roger
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Ganz

Post by Ozarker »

(# Thirty-eight)

03-18-2009, 03:55 PM
dutchman dave
Subject: Ganz

Dont know where this might fit in but found this about emil ganz on a internet sight about the ganz family of phoenix.
“Emil Ganz was born in 1838 in the small town of Walldorf, Germany. Pry believes he immigrated to the United States in 1858 or 1859 and spent time in New York or Philadelphia.

By the summer of 1860, bachelor Ganz was living in Cedartown, Ga., northwest of Atlanta, working as a tailor. When the civil war broke out, he enlisted in the Confederate Army and served in its infantry until the summer of 1864 when he was captured and sent to the notorious prison camp in Elmira, N.Y.

Ganz opened a saloon in Prescott. Not long after, Elizabeth divorced Ganz, charging him with abuse. But Pry says that divorce then required such charges, and there is no evidence Ganz was actually an abusive husband.

Ganz opened a different saloon, the Capital, which had not only a bar but rooms to rent upstairs. He dabbled in gold and silver mining.

In 1879, the divorced Ganz moved to Phoenix, the business climate in Prescott failing to live up to his expectations. Phoenix was being hyped as an up-and-coming community.

Staked by a Prescott banker, Ganz opened the Bank Exchange Hotel in Phoenix in April of 1879, the biggest and fanciest hotel in town - out of three. The brick building was located on Washington Street between First and Second streets.

"It was an instant success," Pry says. "It becomes the hotel," with a bar and restaurant and prominent advertising in the Phoenix Herald.

In 1882, Ganz returned briefly to Kansas City and married Bertha Angleman, a Jewish woman selected by his cousins.

Three years later, Ganz, now a prominent citizen and business leader, was asked to run for mayor and won his first one-year term.

"Jews played a major role in business," he says. Most stores were run by Jews, and Jews were civic minded, though holding public office was still a new experience. Morris Goldwater, Barry Goldwater's uncle, was mayor of Prescott in 1879, and a Jew was elected mayor of Tucson in 1882.

Ganz was active in the Masons, which helped him integrate into society. The Masons welcomed Jews, Pry says.

Ganz's first mayoral term was uneventful, though he earned a reputation for being an efficient administrator. The mayor's primary responsibility was maintaining the city's streets - cleaning up after horses and keeping irrigation ditches free of debris.

That summer, the Bank Exchange Hotel burned to the ground when fire wiped out an entire block. Ganz built an office building on the site and became a landlord.

Re-elected mayor in 1886, Ganz found his second term plagued by controversy. City leaders wanted to build a fire station but argued over its location. When Ganz favored one site, he was accused of promoting a location close to his own businesses. Offended by suggestions of conflicted interests, he abruptly quit the job and took an assignment as member of an oversight board for the state's insane asylum, which would eventually evolve into the Arizona State Hospital.

A year later he opened a liquor business on Washington Street, which he maintained until 1895.

Emil and Bertha had their first child in 1884, when Sylvan Cleveland Ganz was born and named for then-president Grover Cleveland. They had three more children: Helen, who died in 1890 of diphthera; Julien, born in 1893; and Aileen, born in 1896.

Ganz went into the insurance business and became president of the National Bank of Arizona, largest in the territory. There was a strong Jewish presence in the bank, Pry says, further enhancing the prominence of Jews in Phoenix.

Over the years, the Ganz family would live in several homes in Phoenix: Adams and 14th streets, Monroe Street between Fourth and Fifth avenues and at 1324 N. Central Ave., near Willetta Street.

In 1899, Ganz was elected to his third term as mayor. Controversy erupted once again when council members proposed that the city take control of a private company providing water rights. Ganz objected, reluctant to support government take-over of a business. Critics charged he was protecting friends who had investments in the water company.

This time, Ganz did not walk off the job and eventually supported the take-over.

When Ganz had first become mayor, Phoenix covered about 1.3 square miles. By his third term, it had doubled. In 1901, President William McKinley would visit the town, just months before his assassination in Buffalo, N.Y.

After Bertha Ganz died in 1905, Ganz married again, this time a younger woman who would bear him a child, Frances, when Ganz was 70.

Ganz retired from the bank in 1920 and died two years later in his summer residence in San Diego. His death warranted a front-page obituary in the Arizona Republican and services at the Shrine Auditorium. He is buried in Greenwood Cemetery.”
Ozarker
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The Facts

Post by Ozarker »

(#39)

03-19-2009, 08:59 AM
Ozarker
Subject: The Facts

dutchman dave:

Thanks for the Emil Ganz history. It sounds like Ganz led an interesting life, both in and out of Phoenix.

All:

It was pointed out to me that I made an error in post Number 14. In the text of my post, I should have stated that the map was of Block 20 (not Block 21). Sorry for the slip.

[Note: This has been corrected]

Also, I know that the information laid out in my previous posts has been pretty dry, and is not everybody's "cup of tea". I apologize for that, but felt it was necessary to lay out the paper trail found in my research. I hope to get into territory that people feel more comfortable with, and are willing to contribute to.

As for the business with Ganz, Archer, and the location of Julia's store.

The lease records help to confirm the information contained in dutchman dave's post. Ganz did have property between First and Second Streets (Montezuma and Maricopa Streets) which he both operated himself and leased out to others. This property was in Block 20, opposite the old city hall and near the location of the old Thomas confectionary. The Capitol Saloon associated with Ganz appears to have been located in Prescott, and was not the one in Phoenix run by Pierce Butler and Sarah Pimm.

The point is that no record could be found to indicate Ganz having a store "across from the cotton block there" as given in the account attributed to Rhiney. Nor was there an Archer that ran a business either next door to the Phillips Leggat Confectionary in Block 22, which we have been led to believe was Julia's new store, or next to the actual location of Julia's store, located on the north side of Washington in Block 21. There was a saloon keeper named Archer in the 1892 Phoenix directory, and he may have tended bar in one of the Washington Street saloons, but we have no firm evidence that was the case. Finally, an analysis of the 1890 and 1893 Sanborn maps shows that there was no storeroom in the rear of the store that Julia leased, another key point contained in the account attributed to Rhiney. In short, the account simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The lease records were legally binding documents that were signed by both parties to the agreements, and the notary public, and the county recorder. Provenance doesn't get much stronger than that. The records show that Julia leased the former James Coleman saloon which was located in the Capitol Building on the north side of Washington, and newspaper accounts confirm what is shown in the records. There was no back storeroom to place Waltz in; either before, during, or immediately after Julia's tenancy.

As Roger pointed out, surely Rhiney knew the difference between north and south. And surely he would [have] known the location of Julia's store and its physical arrangement. You would think that he'd also know the location of neighboring business owners, although of this I'm less sure.

All of this leads me to believe that the 1933 account was [not given] by Rhiney. It may have been given as authentic and in good faith, and may have been passed along as such, but it simply does not mesh with what we know to be true concerning the location of Julia's store.

It appears that many have accepted the account attributed to Rhiney as authentic and that the information in the account is pretty much the way it happened. It's also been pointed out to me that there are other accounts that seem to back it up. However, similar to the account attributed to Rhiney, the accounts simply don't stand up to what is shown in the records.

It's important to look at these other accounts in a similar fashion in order to get closer to the actual sequence of events in the last months of Jacob Waltz's life. I'll try to avoid getting into the format of my previous posts (laying out book and page numbers) but will be glad to pass those along to anybody that needs the information for their own effort.

Larry
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Location of Julia's Stores

Post by Ozarker »

(#40)

03-19-2009, 09:15 AM
Roger
Subject: Location of Julia's Stores

Larry,

The detailed data you posted is probably a little "dry" as you said, but such is what one has to do a lot of in researching the LDM and early Phoenix history. Searching old records is not like reading adventure books - tons of digging through info unrelated to the topic of interest to find a few related facts on the topic of interest and then a VERY FEW real gems are found that make the heart pump a little faster

I'm sure Greg is capturing the results of all the research posted on the Forum for the archives so the work will live on for generations to come.

Larry - a job well done

Roger
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