LDM Documents on the Internet

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
Joe Ribaudo
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AZ Blade....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

Your site will become one of the "go to" places for future Dutch Hunters. Not everyone can make the trip to Greg's inner sanctum....so to speak.

The one name missing from the search party that found Ruth's body, is Gabriel Robles from Florence. A friend sent me a copy of the article mentioning his name, which was in "The Arizona Blade Tribune" on Jan. 15, 1932.

It's possible he was mentioned in one of the articles you posted, but I missed it. :oops:

I doubt there is anything concerning Adolph Ruth that is missing from your site.....as far as newspaper articles go. Still need to go back and start at the beginning and just read every one......right to the end.

Take care,

Joe
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Gabriel Robles

Post by novice »

Randy,

Your question regarding what Magill found and what Mitchell (aka Travis Marlowe) found using the stone maps is something that each of us will probably have to answer ourselves. In my opinion, your comment, “blowing smoke”, may have summed it up very well?

Joe,

One of the things missing from the articles is the actual pictures and as they say “a picture is worth a thousand words.”

There are probably at least a dozen references to Gabriel Robles in the newspaper articles. It may not be spelled correctly same each time, but a search should turn up quite few hits. Robles was involved in the search from the start. Although Chester McGee led the initial, on the ground, efforts of the Pinal County, authorities, Robles was very prominent. As you say, when the body was found, Robles was again on site representing Pinal County along with Deputy Ace Gardner.

When I was working on the Jacob Wiser story and trying to verify if his name was in the Thomas Weedin letters or if it had been added to help the story along at a later date, Gregory shared the reference document from Jim Bark that included the letters. The letters were only a portion of the Bark document, dated September 14, 1932. Bark related that this paper resulted from “going back and looking over my collection of maps and papers pertaining to the L. D. M., and in so doing I have arrived at an “entirely new theory.”

The “entirely new theory” would be a major research project in itself. It seems that Bark was giving precedent to three of the stories he had collected. The Weedin story, the Salazar story and the Ruth Story.

The reason I mention all of this is because in the Salazar story, Gabriel Robles is an important player. After finding Ruth’s body and the Bicknell note directions, the five guys embarked on their two day trip to fill their gunny sacks with gold. On reaching the cave, Jeff Adams relates the strange reaction of Robles.

Another story, another day.

Does anyone have a first name for Salazar?

Garry
Joe Ribaudo
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Perfecto......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

The first thing I do when searching for anything related to the LDM, is do a search on this Forum. If it isn't here, I need to do some serious research. :lol:

I believe his name was Perfecto.......that bit of information can be found by doing a search, and our old friend Steve will pop up with the name. I remember reading the story, but couldn't come up wilth the name to save my life.

Take care,

Joe
Roger
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The Salazar Survey - Article by Clay Worst

Post by Roger »

Clay Worst wrote an article, "The Salazar Survey", dated 2/25/84 that appeared in Volume 4 (1980) of the Superstition Mountain Journal on pages 27 to 35. On page 27 of this article, Clay gives Salazar's first name as "Perfecto".

Two points for Joe!!

Roger
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Salazar Survey Article in SMH Journal

Post by Roger »

Had a wrong date in the above posting. Volume 4 of the SMH Journal was issued in 1985.
Roger
Joe Ribaudo
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Assist From A Ghost......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Roger,

Those two points came with a great assist from a ghost. Steve gave me more "good" information than just about anyone in this game. I miss our private and public conversations. Someone was once going to tell me how Steve really felt about me, but thankfuly I am left with nothing but good memories.

As I said, there is little you can't find about the Superstitions, simply by doing a search on this Forum. That remains true even though some of the best was deleated.

Best wishes to you and the family for a Very Merry Christmas.

Take care,

Joe
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Post by novice »

I redid the LDM Document Information page format slightly and added the remainder of the Glenn Magill information. Hopefully I haven’t screwed something else up. The Magill stuff is now all in one file. I hope it didn’t mess anyone up who was printing from the file. If you want to print anything else you should be able to do it for only the pages you are interested in.

Thanks for the information on the Salazar survey. I'll try to get hold of the Clay Worst article.

Garry
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Pete Peralta

Post by novice »

I have added an additional file regarding Pete Peralta, a member of the Legend of Adventure syndicate. These articles were passed on to me by Bernice McGee and again Dr. Glover has covered this angle in detail. Hopefully you may find something of interest in the details of the articles.

The link is near the bottom of the page. Legend of Adventure (Pete Peralta)

Garry
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Our Most Active Member (Erwin Ruth)

Post by novice »

I recently added a transcribed article from the Lincoln Continental Owners Club Publication to the Lost Dutchman Mine Documents web page. It can be found under “Our Most Active Member (Erwin Ruth)”

Many have pointed out Erwin’s penchant for self promotion and embellishment and this article again presents this side of him. For those who are familiar with Erwin Ruth, many obvious errors will jump out. Dr. Glover covers this angle pretty thoroughly in his book.

Having said all of that, there is still information that can be gleaned by careful reading and sifting. If you are building a timeline for Erwin’s activities, this article can prove invaluable.

Garry
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Government Employment Record of Adolph Ruth

Post by novice »

I have added a transcribed article that speaks to the Government Employment Record of Adolph Ruth (1900-1924) to the Lost Dutchman Documents Web Page.

It can be found under Other Items Related to Adolph Ruth's Disappearance

I suspect it needs to be relocated but I’m in a hurry. If I relocate it, I will post the new location.

Garry
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John Reed and Erwin Ruth Correspondence from the 1930s

Post by novice »

I have begun uploading some of the Eleanor Clark Collection to the LDM Documents Site. The initial file is the Erwin Ruth and John Reed Letters from the 1930s. All of these documents have been previously posted on Peter’s site but a glitch caused them to be lost and at this time they are not easily viewable.

Again, for anyone who wants a more permanent record of the various files should be able to download them to their computer.

Garry
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Worst, Ruth, Reed Correspondence

Post by novice »

I have posted the Clay Worst, Erwin Ruth and John Reed letters.

I will be adding a few miscellaneous items that are related to their correspondence over the next few days and possibily doing some cleanup. Again nothing new that wasn't posted previously.

Garry
Joe Ribaudo
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Top Of The Mountain......

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Garry,

In my 50 years of association with the LDM and the Superstition Mountains, I have touched countless helping hands and been assisted to the shoulders of many of the Giants who have searched the mountains. IMHO, you have done more to make the true history come alive, for more people, than anyone that comes readily to mind.

Others may have more archives and experience, but you have made everything you have available to anyone with a computer. Your information is an insight into the minds and machinations of many of the early Dutch Hunters, something normally reserved only for those who knew them well.

Your collection is unique and much of it is being seen by Dutch Hunters for the first time. As a history buff, I am indebted to your generosity and most grateful for your friendship.

There are many mountains of collections, knowledge, facts and fiction. You, my friend, are at the top of a mountain that is unlike any other.

Many, Many Thanks.

Take care,

Joe
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Finished Upload of Clark Material

Post by novice »

Joe,

What do you want? :)

You have gone way beyond the limits of credibility in your post above!

I have finished uploading the bulk of the Eleanor Clark Collection to the LDM Document web site. There are a few miscellaneous items that didn’t fall in the categories and I will try to organize those and get them posted sometime in the future. I’m taking a break. Almost everything has been posted previously on Peter’s or the Feldman’s site.

The Northcutt Ely and Erwin Ruth Collection (1932) had not been previously posted, so at least there is something new. I’m not sure about the Sims Ely letter of September 17, 1932?

Garry
Ozarker
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Ely Letters

Post by Ozarker »

Hello All:

There is so much information in the Ely’s letters to Erwin, the topic probably deserves it’s own thread. For now I’ll post an initial couple of thoughts here.

I found the stipulations that Sims made to Erwin really interesting, especially the first one:

“You to join me at Phoenix, at your own expense, and accompany Bark and me into the mountains, we to take young Barkley along; you of course to exhibit all your data to Bark and me, so that the three of us may put our heads together in analyzing it, to see whether it fits the information we already have. If discovered, the properly (sic) is to be taken under proper “location,” the location notice to specify that you own a one-fourth interest.”

My initial take on this is that Erwin requested Bill Barkley be brought along. Did anybody else read it that way? I know it could be taken differently, that “young Barkley” was being taken along because he was Bark’s and Ely’s partner, but that doesn’t make as much sense to me. It also doesn’t make much sense to take Bill along as a wrangler, does it?

The other thing I take away from the Sims Ely letter is that the “Spanish Map” that Erwin couldn’t find back home during the search for his father (or a copy of it) had been located by Erwin at an early date (prior to Sims’ letter of September 17, 1932). Or at least that was Sims’ understanding of it?

Ozarker
Cubfan64
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Re: Ely Letters

Post by Cubfan64 »

Ozarker wrote:Hello All:

There is so much information in the Ely’s letters to Erwin, the topic probably deserves it’s own thread. For now I’ll post an initial couple of thoughts here.

I found the stipulations that Sims made to Erwin really interesting, especially the first one:

“You to join me at Phoenix, at your own expense, and accompany Bark and me into the mountains, we to take young Barkley along; you of course to exhibit all your data to Bark and me, so that the three of us may put our heads together in analyzing it, to see whether it fits the information we already have. If discovered, the properly (sic) is to be taken under proper “location,” the location notice to specify that you own a one-fourth interest.”

My initial take on this is that Erwin requested Bill Barkley be brought along. Did anybody else read it that way? I know it could be taken differently, that “young Barkley” was being taken along because he was Bark’s and Ely’s partner, but that doesn’t make as much sense to me. It also doesn’t make much sense to take Bill along as a wrangler, does it?

The other thing I take away from the Sims Ely letter is that the “Spanish Map” that Erwin couldn’t find back home during the search for his father (or a copy of it) had been located by Erwin at an early date (prior to Sims’ letter of September 17, 1932). Or at least that was Sims’ understanding of it?

Ozarker
Ozarker - I didn't interpret it as Erwin having made the request for Bill Barkley to be included, but rather that Sims or Bark were submitting it as something they wanted to do. I can't give you any specific reason for my thinking that, it's just the way I read it.

I haven't really seen Bill Barkley's name included in many discussions surrounding the LDM except for his association with Brownie Holmes at times. Are there other references I'm not recalling right now that suggest Bill Barkley and Erwin Ruth may have had a relationship of some kind where Erwin would want to include him?
Ozarker
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Post by Ozarker »

Cubfan:

I know of nothing conclusive to say that Erwin Ruth and Bill Barkley had any dealings concerning the LDM. On the other hand, I also know of no such dealings between Bill Barkley and Bark/Ely. Sims’ letter could be taken either way and I’ll continue to give both possibilities some more thought.

It still doesn’t make sense (at least to me) that Bark and Ely would have taken Bill on as a partner that late in the game, and they certainly didn’t need him as a guide. I guess they could have needed him as a wrangler if they were going on an extended trip and were going to be using a lot of pack animals, but my hunch is that Bark and Ely probably wouldn’t want Bill anywhere around if they seriously felt they were getting close to finding the mine, and would only bring him along because of an outside influence.

As for why Erwin would want to include Bill, the answer may be in the Northcutt Ely letters. Again it’s only speculation, but what if the dude ranch venture was something that Erwin was trying to hatch with Bill? I have a really hard time picturing Tex being amenable to the idea, but maybe Bill would be agreeable? Perhaps Erwin thought he had something to gain by insisting that Bill be brought along? This is all just more speculation of course. It would have been nice if Northcutt had used full names in his letters!

(Sorry it’s taken so long to respond. I’ve been having a really hard time logging onto the site)

Ozarker
Joe Ribaudo
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The Bill Barkley Connection.....

Post by Joe Ribaudo »

Larry,

Once Erwin left Arizona, I doubt he ever intended to return, no matter what he said in various letters. In any case, the possibility of his ever going into such a remote area, that close to the Barkley Ranch seems even more unlikely. His wanting to see either of the Barkley men, in any capacity, does not seem plausible.

Ely may have wanted Bill Barkley along because he knew he had information about Adolph's map. Having that information might have been seen as holding an ace in the hole, in case Erwin tried to lead them astray. I am reminded of Harry LaFrance and the possibility that he used the searchers as bird dogs.

What we know about the Adolph Ruth story is a very small portion of the truth. What we don't know, IMHO, is much more important.

Take care,

Joe
Ozarker
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Erwin in Arizona Again?

Post by Ozarker »

Hello Joe:

I have wondered if Erwin ever made it back to Arizona. Jim Bark stated in his notes that Erwin did come back to the Superstitions, sometime after Adolph’s remains and personal effects had been returned to the family in Washington. However, there is another line of thought that this wasn’t the case.

It appears that Northcutt Ely’s first letter had just missed Erwin in DC, and Ely’s second letter was sent to Erwin at the Bond Building in NY. The Bond Building address is in Times Square, and at the time (1932) was home to the Embassy I Theaters (it’s now the location of the Times Square Visitor’s Center). The building was erected in 1925, so at the time Erwin was there it was still fairly new.

The LCOC article, “Our Most Active Member”, stated that for awhile Erwin ran a small booking agency for entertainers in Times Square, so this may be the business he was willing to give up in order to pursue the dude ranch venture and/or hunt the LDM full time. (Admittedly, the LCOC article has some flaws, especially in the timeline).

It’s very clear to me that Northcutt felt the information Erwin had shared was interesting but useless, and he essentially brushed Erwin off until such time as he produced the documents he claimed to have. This seemed to be a recurring theme with Erwin as he dealt with other LDM hunters. (Northcutt was probably doing Erwin a big favor in trying to convince Erwin to keep his job). Yet, for some reason, Sims was later willing to cut him in.

The Sims Ely/Bill Barkley angle (ace in the hole) is an interesting thought. If that was the case, though, why even deal with Erwin (and cut him in for a quarter share to boot)? Wouldn’t it make more sense to deal directly with Bill Barkley? Perhaps that would explain Erwin’s statement to Northcutt Ely that any map was useless without the written directions that only he possessed (but wouldn’t produce). That, in turn, throws a whole new light on the directions (supposedly) found on Adolph’s body, and Bark’s and other’s involvement with it.

I guess we keep looking.

Larry
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Glenn Magill Letter and Map

Post by novice »

I recently received a new piece of correspondence from Eleanor Clark involving Erwin Ruth and Glenn Magill. It involves the search for the Lost Pegleg Mine in the Anza Borrego Desert. It ties in with the search that Gene Reynolds and Magill made later.

From Gene’s manuscript, it seemed to me that he was struggling when he first arrived in Anza Borrego and was pleading with Glenn for additional information.

The map, shown at the end of this letter, indicates that Glenn had a firm grasp, in 1968, of where Adolph conducted his search before breaking his hip. I believe Gene ended up in this area later on.

I have added this letter to the LDM Documents site.

Follow the “Eleanor Clark Collection” Link and look for the link entitled “Glenn Magill and Ruth Correspondence Involving the Pegleg Smith Lost Mine”

Garry
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Higham & Rosecrans

Post by novice »

I did a bit of reorganization to the Lost Dutchman Mine Documents, web page. I have created a separate directory for the Bernice McGee material and I added a couple of correspondence files. One involves the letters of Doc Rosecrans and the other the letters of John Lindley Higham.

Select the link: The Bernice McGee Collection

I was having a bit of trouble this morning with the browser loading the files so slowly. I’m not sure if it was the Roots Web server, perhaps my provider or simply very large files. I hope it is not the latter. I had to scan the Rosecrans Letters in color because of Bernice’s use of her highlighter. In black and white, the highlighted text became unreadable.

I did break the Rosecrans files into smaller elements as opposed to one large file.

Good luck, they will eventually load.

Garry
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Post by zentull »

Garry,

The only file I could open was the Higham letters. The rest of the links would not load.
"Be Careful of What You Do Before A Lie Becomes The Truth"
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web site problem?

Post by novice »

Wayne,

I just checked and they all work for me? In fact they are loading a lot quicker than when I posted them.

I assume you were able of open the Bernice McGee collection Link?

Could you open the old Pete Peralta and Glen Magill links?

Is it only the Rosecrans files that won't open?

What does your browser say when you try to open them?

What browser are you using?

Is anyone else having similar problems opening the files?

I appreciate any feedback although I'm not sure what to do about it at this time. Maybe with a little help I can resolve it?

Garry
Cubfan64
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Post by Cubfan64 »

No problems on my end - everything loads up ok.
Roger
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LDM History Documents

Post by Roger »

Novice,

The site worked fine for me. Had to use Adobe Acrobat 5.0 to open the files, but worked with no problem.

Thanks a lot for putting these documents up for all to use. Without this, most of us would never be able to read these documents from key players in the LDM history.

Roger
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