cravey /ruth

Discuss information about the Lost Dutchman Mine
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don
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cravey /ruth

Post by don »

just filling in some idle time,thought id ask peoples opinions as to why the James Cravey case didnt attract the same interest, or fire the imagination in the same way as the Adolph Ruth suicide/murder/death by natural causes case did. Both cases ,on the face of it,could be described as mysterious,both supposedly had secret info regarding the mines location...both were supposedly beheaded,though personally i doubt they were,and both were discovered in "odd" locations. Was it because ,by then, interest had waned regards the LDM,or maybe that the clique of conspiracy theorists had moved on? or because a new generation of newspaper journalists had replaced the "old guard" and had other "fish to fry"? or because people had begun to realise that the mysterious deaths maybe werent so mysterious after all? and what truth was there in the story that craveys decapitated head was found,by a regularly used trail, sitting atop a rock with a rope round it?
kind regards
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novice
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Re: cravey /ruth

Post by novice »

Don,

You may have already seen this but by far the most detailed account of the Cravey story I have seen is from the Kollenborn Chronicles. No Mystery though!

http://superstitionmountaintomkollenbor ... dream.html

BTW, What is your provenance for "craveys decapitated head was found,by a regularly used trail, sitting atop a rock with a rope round it?" How did that story reach your ears? :)

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don
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Re: cravey /ruth

Post by don »

Hello Novice,
Nice to see you posting again..and no I hadnt seen the link you posted before. Thanks for the link .As for where i heard of Craveys decapitated head ,sitting atop a rock cairn,on a regularly used trail with a rope round it..or more correctly the rope was supposedly on the trail and when followed led to craveys skull.i cant say exactly from where i derived that information..but i know i read it somewhere ,probabley years ago ,at a time when i perhaps was a lot more gullible..Now i dare say there was very little that was mysterious about it..same as ,with the benefit of hindsight ,there was very little that really was mysterious about Ruth,s death either ...but anyhow 1 story caught folks imaginations -the other 1 didnt.Considering the amount of fuss ,conspiracy theories and drama that ensued over ruths case ,it just surprises me that the "usual suspects" didnt use the Cravey issue to bolster their claims...in the plethora of books and articles that have been churned out Craveys fate is largely glossed over ..rarely mentioned or not mentioned at all.
kind regards
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novice
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Re: cravey /ruth

Post by novice »

Don,

I'll share my opinion, but opinions are like navels, everybody has one.

I'm the poster boy for ignoring the Cravey Story and researching the Adolph Ruth Story.

Cravey was following a dream (or so they say) and Adolph was following a Genuine SPANISH map and was MURDERED for it. If anything makes a treasure hunter’s heart beat faster, it’s a treasure map. Map provenance be Damned!

Erwin Ruth planted the seed, the summer he showed up after Adolph’s disappearance, he suggested that foul play may have been involved. When the Archeology team stumbled across Adolph’s skull, in the fall, Brownie on looking at the skull, with two large ragged holes, said something to the effect that it looks like the old man has been shot.

You would be hard pressed to find anyone who is a treasure hunter that doesn’t believe that Adolph was murdered.

Kollenborn indicates that there was little mysterious in either case, but he also apparently believed that the Jacob Waltz, Lost Dutchman Mine, didn’t exist, so how can you take him serious. :wink:

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don
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Re: cravey /ruth

Post by don »

Novice
I was under the impression Cravey was rumoured to have secret info too...but that aside,Ruth,s map might have been genuine ..might not have been..no real way of knowing in my opinion..as for whether Ruth was murdered ,well i think thats up for question. nothing is black or white as regards his death...even whether the skull was Ruths or not is debatable. at first it was identified ,by halseth i think, as likely the skull of an aged indian. I was always led to believe ruths skull was identified by being sent to washington to compare dental records. that event it seems never took place. as for Holmes statement that he recognised the skull as Ruths as absurd. How many of us could positively identify someone we knew in life ,by seeing their skull in death? and of course the 2 "bullet holes "in the skull that hrdlicka described were made by "possibly a pistol ,or a high powered rifle ,or a shotgun (probabley)" as you know hrdlickas verdict was replete with possibilities, probabilities and maybes..a few too many for me to have much faith in...and of course the skull was of a 66 year old man according to hrdlicka..when as you know ruth was 76..its odd that the age was given as precisely 66 years ..maybe that was because it was the age ruth was reputed to be..and ruth junior didnt tell him his real age. ..besides i cant see hrdlicka had any medical qualifications (i might be wrong) to determine whether or not they were bullet holes and judging by his verdict statement i doubt he was really sure of anything...as i understand it hrdlicka was "employed" by ruth junior to oversee the identification and cause of death..im assuming hrdlicka was paid by ruth junior..maybe just maybe ruth got the verdict he wanted ...and paid for..his agenda /conviction was well known. themystery of the placement of skull and skeleton was convincingly explained to me anyway, by a member of search and rescue i communicated with for a while a few years ago..he related to me a case of a skeleton of a missing person being found and the skull being located atop a saguaro cactus some 20 miles away...no mystery ,it had been carried there by a bird of prey ....and of course if ruth WAS murdered for his map supposedly by a gun shot-rifle shot-shotgun blast (take your pick ) why would the killer then saw ruths head off? it makes no sense unless the killer wasnt just a treasure hunter intent on getting ruths map ,but instead was a ted bundy type character? plus the official verdicts of natural death,or misadventure etc ...now to believe ruth was murdered (again my opinion) you also have to believe that sheriff jeff adams, tex barkley, the coroner,and other officials who would have been involved were "all in this subterfuge together" presumabley to keep the gold for themselves (you could ask WHAT GOLD? but thats another issue and would take up half a dozen threads :D ) or of course the people and agencies just mentioned made a mistake in their judgement...that isnt impossible of course ,ya pays yer money and yer makes yer choices i guess.....kind regards
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